Pianotech

Expand all | Collapse all

Reducing volume of grand piano

  • 1.  Reducing volume of grand piano

    Posted 12-06-2012 18:22


    -------------------------------------------
    Bruce Trummel
    Piano Tuner
    Aromas CA
    831-726-7006
    -------------------------------------------
    I have a client that needs to reduce the sound level of an older Mason and Hamlin grand piano. ( Model A built in 1968, according to Pierce.) It is in a pubic space and they want to reduce the volume so that people conducting business in the same room can hear each other while the piano is being played. Even with the lid closed it is too loud.

    I have looked at a product called a grand piano muffler. It is available from grandpianomuffler.com.

    It is similar to the "practice pedal muffler" often seen in vertical pianos. However, this product is custom manufactured for each piano. One of the things that concerns me is that in some cases the damper guide rail must be lowered, which of course involves removing the guide rail. Does anyone have any experience installing one of these?

    Or maybe someone has an alternative idea to reduce the sound output? Thanks.

    Bruce Trummel


  • 2.  RE: Reducing volume of grand piano

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-06-2012 19:38
    Hi, Bruce: I had a customer make a muffler for his piano. He just cut felt to rest directly on the speaking part of the strings. Seemed to work, and cost is cheap. Not going to be too much sustain, but it will be quieter. You can also stuff acoustic foam under the piano between the beams, and Edwards String Covers Co. can make a special string cover that has acoustic foam in it. Cuts sound down considerably. Paul McCloud San Diego


  • 3.  RE:Reducing volume of grand piano

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-06-2012 20:26
    You could also figure out a way to lock the keyboard in the shift position, also, take one of Jim Coleman Jr.'s extra long temperment strips and mute the outside two wires (this will not work if there is not enough damper lift).

    -------------------------------------------
    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.prescottpiano.com
    larry@prescottpiano.com
    928-445-3888
    -------------------------------------------








  • 4.  RE:Reducing volume of grand piano

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-07-2012 05:07
    The most effective way is to install the good acoustical baffle foam on the underside of the soundboard belly. You can buy the sheets in a 3x5 ft section and cut it to fit perfectly for this piano. Or you can call LaRoy Edwards and they have them pre-cut ready to go. The cost difference is substantial, which is why I cut my own.
    Markertek in NYC handles the gray acoustical foam ( get the 3" thickness). For the installation you'll need either a very sharp razor knife or an electric heated knife to cut the material cleanly.  You'll want to face the egg-crate looking side as the top side.
    Simply get on your back and measure the triangular sections between the main support beams under the piano. You'll be cutting the triangles approx. 1" wider than the opening in order for the cut pieces to fit snugly in the open areas.  A 3'x5' sheet will yield enough for almost 2 pianos. I think the cost is around $50 plus shipping.
    Markertek's phone number is : (800) 522-2025

    The amount of sound that reflects from of the bottom is often discounted as being not an issue. Once that the bottom side has been addressed, the sound volume can diminish by about 30-40%.  The other benefit of addressing the underside is that the player seldom notices the diminished sound. Only those standing in the proximity of the piano will notice the sound reduction.
    This is the ideal way of addressing player piano issues as well

    -------------------------------------------
    Tom Servinsky

    -------------------------------------------








  • 5.  RE:Reducing volume of grand piano

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-08-2012 09:55
    I have used the foam baffles from Markertek a number of times and am always disappointed.  I think they only give a 10% reduction in sound.  I installed the Grand Piano Muffler from Steve James on a 7" Kawai.  It works great but the installation is tricky.  I had to revome all the dampers and lower the damper guide rail.  It probably took about 5 hours.  None of the steps are difficult but it is long and involved.  I defintely worked up a sweat.  Steve gives great support and is very patient in  answering questions.  If you go this route make sure you charge enough because your first one will take longer than you think.  I have also installed strips mutes to knock out one string of each unison.  That works well and I would say its a 10% reduction.  It also makes the tuning last longer because you are not hearing one string. I always remove the strips to tune and then put them back in afterwards. 

    -------------------------------------------
    David Weiss
    Charlottesville VA
    434-823-9733
    -------------------------------------------








  • 6.  RE: Reducing volume of grand piano

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-08-2012 11:38
    The problem with the foam solution is that the foam isn't meant to soundproof, but to absorb sound reflections in a room. If you really want to absorb the sound, you have to use a different kind of material, which has a lot of mass. Since the foam is comparatively light, the sound energy isn't trapped in it. It goes right through. You do get some attenuation, but it isn't very much. If you search for soundproofing materials, there are better solutions than the simple acoustic foam, but they are more expensive too. The material I'm talking about has multi-layers which include heavy vinyl sandwiched between different layers of foam. With it you'll get a much more substantial reduction in sound level. I once used some of this to soundproof a motorhome engine that was coverted to diesel. Boat engine compartments are lined with it to reduce the sound. It is amazingly effective. For our use, maybe a bit of overkill, I don't know. I'm looking at "Acoustiblok" material, and have written the company about our needs. It's not like the stuff I mentioned above, but it's used to reduce sound levels in buildings. I'll report back if I find out some useful information. Paul McCloud San Diego


  • 7.  RE:Reducing volume of grand piano

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-08-2012 09:55
    Bruce and Tom,  I've installed plenty of these foam filler blocks on players.  There's a place in town called A-1 Foam that sells nothing but foam.  They primarily sell the grey egg carton foam for bed ridden people.  They also market mattress foam custom cut to fit in the back of pickups or RV's for instance.  There might be a place near you that has foam for pillows, seat cushions, mattresses, exercise mats,  and of course, pianos.

    To make your fitting a bit easier, try taping newspaper to the underside of the piano and use a felt tip marker to draw the outline of all the cavities.  Then cut out all the shapes and take them to a foam peddler.  Accuracy isn't that critical since the guy cuts the stuff a bit large anyway.  Pressure holds it in there and so they can be removed at any time.  Closed cell 3 inch foam works really well.

    In settings where the room has a hardwood or tile floor the sound reduction is quite noticable.  As some piano owners get older, the upper frequencies are an irritant and rather than voice a perfectly good hammer down, I've added the foam and they've been happy.

    If you're a long drive from the vendor, perhaps you could discuss shipping the patterns to them and have them ship the foam back to you.

    Good luck. 

    -------------------------------------------
    Larry Fisher
    Owner, Chief Grunt, Head Hosehead
    Vancouver WA
    360-256-2999
    -------------------------------------------








  • 8.  RE:Reducing volume of grand piano

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-08-2012 19:11
    Just a week ago I did "pillow voicing".  My customer had new hardwood floors, so the piano was now too loud and too bright.  We took three Costo $5 pillows and stuffed them under the piano, held in place with fishing line (what was available at the moment). Cheap, fast, flexible, & removable. She likes the result.  Try it, you might like it :)

    -------------------------------------------
    Sheffey Gregory, RPT
    McDonald TN
    423-614-5001

    -------------------------------------------








  • 9.  RE:Reducing volume of grand piano

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-09-2012 21:18
    Consider using Hammer Softener. I have had success reducing the volume of strident and otherwise very loud pianos by applying a few drops to the shoulders and/ or strike point with a hypo-oiler. An on-going dialogue on Hammer Softener can be found under CAUT community discussions. See the link below for Ken McGavern's videos and commentary.

    http://my.ptg.org/PTG/Go.aspx?c=ViewDocument&DocumentKey=85a8f68d-d6b9-4bfa-a7aa-fc08c0681fa0

    -------------------------------------------
    Kate Redding

    Piano Technician
    East Carolina University
    Greenville NC 27858
    252-328-6069
    -------------------------------------------








  • 10.  RE:Reducing volume of grand piano

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-09-2012 21:21
    Correction: Keith McGavern's videos and commentary.

    -------------------------------------------
    Katherine Redding
    Greenville NC
    252-328-6069
    -------------------------------------------








  • 11.  RE:Reducing volume of grand piano

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-10-2012 04:36
    I've had good results at volumn reduction by attaching thick cardboard to the underside of grands or the backs of verticals.  This does not apply to pianos with a player system installed.  The cardboard I'm talking about is the kind that is used for piano shipping.  It's about 1/2" thick and very sturdy and can be held in place with large head roofing nails.  If it will be visible (grand piano on a raised platform), the edges can be covered with postal tape after cutting out the pattern and the whole thing painted black, then nailed into place.  It will look like original equipment.

    -------------------------------------------
    [Danny] [Lyons] [RPT]]
    [Pensacola] [FL]
    [dannylyons2@cox.net]
    -------------------------------------------