PianoTech Archive

From paul bruesch <paul@bruesch.net>

I've just been musing with a friend about grammar when I made a rather
humorous (to me, anyhow) discovery...

How often do people call or email and say that their piano needs to be
tuned badly?  It's grammatically more accurate to say that it badly needs
to be tuned. I thought I could play the grammar cop and suggest that they
don't want me to tune it badly... much more likely they want me to tune it
well. But then there's the implication of tuning a well temperament, so
maybe they want me to tune it equal. Or equally well, which of course is a
contradiction... at least in our world. Sigh...

Disclaimer: I'm aware that this post is not in 100% compliance with grammar
rules. Casual liberties have been taken.

Paul Bruesch
Stillwater, MN

From Terry Beckingham <t46xd8jb@xplornet.com>

Since you brought it up...

Two of my pet peeves are:

People who say "I seen" when they should have said "I have seen" or "I saw"

Many people now say "Me and him" when they should have said "He and I".

Do schools no longer teach grammar??? I feel that the English language is 
deteriorating rapidly.

Terry Beckingham
(just nit picking)



At 09:35 AM 12/4/2012 -0600, you wrote:
>I've just been musing with a friend about grammar when I made a rather 
>humorous (to me, anyhow) discovery...
>
>How often do people call or email and say that their piano needs to be 
>tuned badly?  It's grammatically more accurate to say that it badly needs 
>to be tuned. I thought I could play the grammar cop and suggest that they 
>don't want me to tune it badly... much more likely they want me to tune it 
>well. But then there's the implication of tuning a well temperament, so 
>maybe they want me to tune it equal. Or equally well, which of course is a 
>contradiction... at least in our world. Sigh...
>
>Disclaimer: I'm aware that this post is not in 100% compliance with 
>grammar rules. Casual liberties have been taken.
>
>Paul Bruesch
>Stillwater, MN

From paul bruesch <paul@bruesch.net>

Terry, We could sit and pick nits all day!!  e.g.
"She went to the store with Jim and I."
"Please talk to Bob or myself for more information."
"Definitely" this or that. (Tech support/billing support)
"Absolutely." (Radio/TV interviews)
(The last two aren't incorrect, just abusively overused.)

My kids (19 and 16) are both enabled with quite good grammar skills, but
when they talk to their friends they sometimes lapse into the casual "I
seen" construct.

I do know that schools do still teach grammar. The friend I mentioned at
the beginning of my original post is a Kindergarten teacher who teaches
non-native-English-speaking kids... she has to attend a three-day grammar
conference this month. She has to teach about nouns, verbs, adjectives,
paragraphs. Yes, to non-native-English-speaking kindergarten kids. I
suppose the future preservation of English grammar may be in the hands of
such kids.


On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 9:48 AM, Terry Beckingham <t46xd8jb@xplornet.com>wrote:

> Since you brought it up...
>
> Two of my pet peeves are:
>
> People who say "I seen" when they should have said "I have seen" or "I saw"
>
> Many people now say "Me and him" when they should have said "He and I".
>
> Do schools no longer teach grammar??? I feel that the English language is
> deteriorating rapidly.
>
> Terry Beckingham
> (just nit picking)
>
>
> At 09:35 AM 12/4/2012 -0600, you wrote:
>
>> I've just been musing with a friend about grammar when I made a rather
>> humorous (to me, anyhow) discovery...
>>
>

From John Formsma <formsma@gmail.com>

Agreed with both of you.

When Terry said that he feels the English language is deteriorating
rapidly, I thought of one thing. Well, two things really. The first is the
incorrect use of "feel." Should be "I believe" or "I think" rather than "I
feel." OK, that out of the way.... ;-)

The second thing is this. I think the English language is borderline
psychotic. I'm trying to teach my two younger sons how to spell. English
spelling just doesn't make much sense, and it's impossible to spell well
unless one has a really good memory. We have spelling "rules" that are
always broken and don't apply equally in every case. Here is just one
frustrating example below. (I posted this recently to my Twitter
account.) Talk about homonyms. Ugh!

I rode on the road; the hero rowed. Knowing the owing & sewing, we were
going. Dear, we see the deer here. They're there w/ their fawns.

I could go on and talk about why we sew. But when we hew trees, it isn't
said like hoe. Crazy stuff like that. I can see why my kids get so
frustrated. I mean, we have goose and geese, but not moose and meese. Mouse
and mice, but not house and hice. We can have steer and steers, but not
deer and deers. Doesn't make a lick of sense.

OK. Bak to the reel wirld.... ;-)



On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 10:11 AM, paul bruesch <paul@bruesch.net> wrote:

> Terry, We could sit and pick nits all day!!  e.g.
> "She went to the store with Jim and I."
> "Please talk to Bob or myself for more information."
> "Definitely" this or that. (Tech support/billing support)
> "Absolutely." (Radio/TV interviews)
> (The last two aren't incorrect, just abusively overused.)
>
> My kids (19 and 16) are both enabled with quite good grammar skills, but
> when they talk to their friends they sometimes lapse into the casual "I
> seen" construct.
>
> I do know that schools do still teach grammar. The friend I mentioned at
> the beginning of my original post is a Kindergarten teacher who teaches
> non-native-English-speaking kids... she has to attend a three-day grammar
> conference this month. She has to teach about nouns, verbs, adjectives,
> paragraphs. Yes, to non-native-English-speaking kindergarten kids. I
> suppose the future preservation of English grammar may be in the hands of
> such kids.
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 9:48 AM, Terry Beckingham <t46xd8jb@xplornet.com>wrote:
>
>> Since you brought it up...
>>
>> Two of my pet peeves are:
>>
>> People who say "I seen" when they should have said "I have seen" or "I
>> saw"
>>
>> Many people now say "Me and him" when they should have said "He and I".
>>
>> Do schools no longer teach grammar??? I feel that the English language is
>> deteriorating rapidly.
>>
>> Terry Beckingham
>> (just nit picking)
>>
>>
>> At 09:35 AM 12/4/2012 -0600, you wrote:
>>
>>> I've just been musing with a friend about grammar when I made a rather
>>> humorous (to me, anyhow) discovery...
>>>
>>


-- 
John Formsma, RPT
Blue Mountain, MS

From paul bruesch <paul@bruesch.net>

Thanks for that, John!

On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 10:26 AM, John Formsma <formsma@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> I rode on the road; the hero rowed. Knowing the owing & sewing, we were
> going. Dear, we see the deer here. They're there w/ their fawns.
>
> I could go on and talk about why we sew. But when we hew trees, it isn't
> said like hoe. Crazy stuff like that. I can see why my kids get so
> frustrated. I mean, we have goose and geese, but not moose and meese. Mouse
> and mice, but not house and hice. We can have steer and steers, but not
> deer and deers. Doesn't make a lick of sense.
>

From Susan Kline <skline@peak.org>

Actually, out here they never say it needs to be tuned badly. They say, 
"it needs
tuned" or "it needs tuned bad."

And you'd be well advised not to let them figure out you don't like 
their way of
saying things ... their money speaks a universal language, and they are 
not hiring
us as language tutors.

Just MHO, well, that's how I feel, anyway. <grin>

Susan

paul bruesch wrote:
> I've just been musing with a friend about grammar when I made a rather 
> humorous (to me, anyhow) discovery...
>
> How often do people call or email and say that their piano needs to be 
> tuned badly?  It's grammatically more accurate to say that it badly 
> needs to be tuned. I thought I could play the grammar cop and suggest 
> that they don't want me to tune it badly... much more likely they want 
> me to tune it well. But then there's the implication of tuning a well 
> temperament, so maybe they want me to tune it equal. Or equally well, 
> which of course is a contradiction... at least in our world. Sigh...
>
> Disclaimer: I'm aware that this post is not in 100% compliance with 
> grammar rules. Casual liberties have been taken.
>
> Paul Bruesch
> Stillwater, MN
>

From Ron Nossaman <rnossaman@cox.net>

On 12/4/2012 9:35 AM, paul bruesch wrote:
> I've just been musing with a friend about grammar when I made a rather
> humorous (to me, anyhow) discovery...

Yep, I've done that with the tuning badly thing for a long time. Of 
course I also say when they ask if they can make an appointment that I 
don't see why not unless they can think if a good reason we shouldn't. 
What gets me is our apparent collective inability to learn something 
different than we've already mis-learned. It's cast in stone, or cheap 
rubber, in our alleged brains. "Alot", for instance, is NOT an English 
word in any context, but I read it a lot. "To" does not mean "also", but 
it's as unshakable as "alot", and people who own and indulge the use of 
vises and/or vices ought to be able to differentiate between the two 
(not to or too) after repeated correction unless, perhaps, one is used 
with or as the other, in which case I don't want to know the details. 
"Everyday" is used where "every day" is correct, but I never see it 
reversed. Why doesn't anyone have an every day experience when so many 
have an experience of some sort everyday? It's a mystery. I have never 
shaken the apparent limbic level reflex action of putting an apostrophe 
in the possessive "its". I usually catch it and fix it, but too often it 
gets by me. Never figured out why I do that, and that's not the only one.

My conclusion sometime toward the end of High School was that this 
language could not have been seriously intended as a means of 
communication by anyone sane and intelligent. It must be either a cruel 
joke like Twitter or C++, or contains little if any sanity and 
intelligence. There is so much evidence for either case, that I've never 
been able to decide. The best I've been able to do is use it as a broken 
toy.

Illiterate in profile,
Ron N

PS: And what sort of idiot spell checker doesn't recognize "limbic"?

From "Brown, David" <dcbrown@mail.smu.edu>

My colleagues in Austin always told clients to call me when their piano needed to be tuned in the worst way??????

David C. Brown RPT
Piano Technician
Division of Music
Meadows School of the Arts
Southern Methodist University
Dallas Texas 1-214-768-3976
dcbrown@smu.edu [cid:0D6A00F8-5393-48B7-9C20-81EFE5C96B14]

From paul bruesch <paul@bruesch.net>

Ahhhhh... aha! So that's why people call me when it needs to be tuned
badly... Now I just wonder who's referring them to me...

On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Brown, David <dcbrown@mail.smu.edu> wrote:

> My colleagues in Austin always told clients to call me when their piano
> needed to be tuned in the worst way??????
>

From Jon Page <jonpage@comcast.net>

*Subject:**Fwd: Re: 8TH GRADE EDUCATION in 1895*
  Remember when grandparents and great-grandparents stated that
  they only had an 8th grade education? Well, check this out. Could
  any of us have passed the 8th grade in 1895?
Imagine this..
This is the eighth-grade final exam from 1895 in Salina ,
Kansas, USA .
It was taken from the original document on file at the Smokey
Valley Genealogical Society and Library in Salina, and reprinted by
the Salina Journal.

  8th Grade Final Exam: Salina, KS - 1895

  **_Grammar (Time, one hour)_**
 > >
 > >  1. Give nine rules for the use of capital letters.
 > >
 > >  2. Name the parts of speech and define those that have
 > no modifications.
 > >
 > >  3. Define verse, stanza and paragraph
 > >
 > >  4. What are the principal parts of a verb? Give
 > principal parts of
 > > "lie,""play," and "run."
 > >
 > >  5. Define case; illustrate each case.
 > >
 > >  6 What is punctuation? Give rules for principal marks of
 > punctuation.
 > >
 > >  7 - 10. Write a composition of about 150 words and show
 > therein that you understand the practical use of the rules of grammar.
 > >
 > > **_ Arithmetic (Time,1 hour 15 minutes)_**
 > >
 > >  1. Name and define the Fundamental Rules of Arithmetic.
 > >
 > >  2. A wagon box is 2 ft. Deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft.
 > Wide. How many bushels of wheat will it hold?
 > >
 > >  3. If a load of wheat weighs 3,942 lbs., what is it
 > worth at 50cts/bushel, deducting 1,050 lbs. for tare?
 > >
 > >  4. District No 33 has a valuation of $35,000. What is
 > the necessary levy to carry on a school seven months at
 > >$50 per month, and have $104 for incidentals?
 > >
 > >  5. Find the cost of 6,720 lbs. Coal at $6.00 per ton.
 > >
 > >  6. Find the interest of $512.60 for 8 months and 18 days
 > at 7 percent.
 > >
 > >  7. What is the cost of 40 boards 12 inches wide and 16
 > ft. Long at $20 per metre?
 > >
 > >  8. Find bank discount on $300 for 90 days (no grace) at
 > 10 percent.
 > >
 > >  9. What is the cost of a square farm at $15 per acre,
 > the distance of which is 640 rods?
 > >
 > >  10. Write a Bank Check, a Promissory Note, and a Receipt
 > >
 > > **_U.S._****_ History (Time, 45 minutes)_**
 > >
 > >  1. Give the epochs into which U.S. History is divided
 > >
 > >  2. Give an account of the discovery of America by
 > Columbus
 > >
 > >  3. Relate the causes and results of the Revolutionary
 > War.
 > >
 > >  4. Show the territorial growth of the United States
 > >
 > >  5. Tell what you can of the history of Kansas
 > >
 > >  6. Describe three of the most prominent battles of the
 > Rebellion.
 > >
 > >  7. Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton , Bell
 > , Lincoln , Penn, and Howe?
 > >
 > >  8. Name events connected with the following dates:
 > 1607, 1620, 1800, 1849, 1865.
 > >
 > > **_ _***_Orthography_***_ (Time, one hour)_**
 > >
 > >  [Do we even know what this is??]
 > >
 > >  1. What is meant by the following: alphabet, phonetic,
 > orthography, etymology, syllabication?
 > >
 > >  2. What are elementary sounds? How classified?
 > >
 > >  3. What are the following, and give examples of each:
 > trigraph, subvocals, diphthong, cognate letters, linguals?
 > >
 > >  4. Give four substitutes for caret 'u.' (HUH?)
 > >
 > >  5. Give two rules for spelling words with final 'e.'
 > Name two exceptions under each rule.
 > >
 > >  6. Give two uses of silent letters in spelling.
 > Illustrate each.
 > >
 > >  7. Define the following prefixes and use in connection
 > with a word:
 > > bi, dis-mis, pre, semi, post, non, inter, mono, sup.
 > >
 > >  8. Mark diacritically and divide into syllables the
 > following, and name the sign that indicates the sound:
 > card,    ball,  mercy, sir, odd, cell, rise, blood, fare, last
 > >
 > >  9. Use the following correctly in sentences: cite, site,
 > sight, fane, fain, feign, vane , vain, vein, raze, raise, rays.
 > >
 > >  10. Write 10 words frequently mispronounced and indicate
 > > pronunciation by use of diacritical marks and by
 > syllabication.
 > >
 > > **_Geography (Time, one hour)_**
 > >
 > >  1 What is climate? Upon what does climate depend?
 > >
 > >  2. How do you account for the extremes of climate in
 > Kansas ?
 > >
 > >  3. Of what use are rivers? Of what use is the ocean?
 > >
 > >  4. Describe the mountains of North America
 > >
 > >  5. Name and describe the following: Monrovia , Odessa ,
 > Denver , Manitoba , Hecla , Yukon , St. Helena, Juan Fernandez,
 > Aspinwall and  Orinoco ..
 > >
 > >  6. Name and locate the principal trade centers of the
 > U.S.
 > >
 > >  7. Name all the republics of Europe and give the capital
 > of each.
 > >
 > >  8. Why is the Atlantic Coast colder than the Pacific in
 > the same latitude?
 > >
 > >  9. Describe the process by which the water of the ocean
 > returns to the sources of rivers.
 > >
 > >  10. Describe the movements of the earth. Give the
 > inclination of the earth
 > >
 > >  Notice that the exam took FIVE HOURS to complete.
 > >
 > >  Gives the saying "he only had an 8th grade education" a
 > whole new meaning, doesn't it?!
 > >
 > > Also shows you how poor our education system has become!
 > And no, I don't have the answers.

From paul bruesch <paul@bruesch.net>

Well... maybe that's why so many people only had an 8th grade education.
They failed the exams and couldn't go on to 9th grade.
Just sayin'... and only a little bit tongue-in-cheek!

On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 5:46 PM, Jon Page <jonpage@comcast.net> wrote:

>   *Subject: **Fwd: Re: 8TH GRADE EDUCATION in 1895*****
>
>    ****
>   Remember when grandparents and great-grandparents stated that
>  they only had an 8th grade education? Well, check this out. Could
>  any of us have passed the 8th grade in 1895?
> Imagine this..****
>
> This is the eighth-grade final exam from 1895 in Salina ,
> Kansas, USA .
> It was taken from the original document on file at the Smokey
> Valley Genealogical Society and Library in Salina, and reprinted by
> the Salina Journal.
>
>  8th Grade Final Exam: Salina, KS - 1895
>
>  **_Grammar (Time, one hour)_**
> > >
> > >  1. Give nine rules for the use of capital letters.
> > >
> > >  2. Name the parts of speech and define those that have
> > no modifications.
> > >
> > >  3. Define verse, stanza and paragraph
> > >
> > >  4. What are the principal parts of a verb? Give
> > principal parts of
> > > "lie,""play," and "run."
> > >
> > >  5. Define case; illustrate each case.
> > >
> > >  6 What is punctuation? Give rules for principal marks of
> > punctuation.
> > >
> > >  7 - 10. Write a composition of about 150 words and show
> > therein that you understand the practical use of the rules of grammar.
> > >
> > > **_ Arithmetic (Time,1 hour 15 minutes)_**
> > >
> > >  1. Name and define the Fundamental Rules of Arithmetic.
> > >
> > >  2. A wagon box is 2 ft. Deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft.
> > Wide. How many bushels of wheat will it hold?
> > >
> > >  3. If a load of wheat weighs 3,942 lbs., what is it
> > worth at 50cts/bushel, deducting 1,050 lbs. for tare?
> > >
> > >  4. District No 33 has a valuation of $35,000. What is
> > the necessary levy to carry on a school seven months at
> > >$50 per month, and have $104 for incidentals?
> > >
> > >  5. Find the cost of 6,720 lbs. Coal at $6.00 per ton.
> > >
> > >  6. Find the interest of $512.60 for 8 months and 18 days
> > at 7 percent.
> > >
> > >  7. What is the cost of 40 boards 12 inches wide and 16
> > ft. Long at $20 per metre?
> > >
> > >  8. Find bank discount on $300 for 90 days (no grace) at
> > 10 percent.
> > >
> > >  9. What is the cost of a square farm at $15 per acre,
> > the distance of which is 640 rods?
> > >
> > >  10. Write a Bank Check, a Promissory Note, and a Receipt
> > >
> > > **_U.S._****_ History (Time, 45 minutes)_**
> > >
> > >  1. Give the epochs into which U.S. History is divided
> > >
> > >  2. Give an account of the discovery of America by
> > Columbus
> > >
> > >  3. Relate the causes and results of the Revolutionary
> > War.
> > >
> > >  4. Show the territorial growth of the United States
> > >
> > >  5. Tell what you can of the history of Kansas
> > >
> > >  6. Describe three of the most prominent battles of the
> > Rebellion.
> > >
> > >  7. Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton , Bell
> > , Lincoln , Penn, and Howe?
> > >
> > >  8. Name events connected with the following dates:
> > 1607, 1620, 1800, 1849, 1865.
> > >
> > > **_ _***_Orthography_***_ (Time, one hour)_**
> > >
> > >  [Do we even know what this is??]
> > >
> > >  1. What is meant by the following: alphabet, phonetic,
> > orthography, etymology, syllabication?
> > >
> > >  2. What are elementary sounds? How classified?
> > >
> > >  3. What are the following, and give examples of each:
> > trigraph, subvocals, diphthong, cognate letters, linguals?
> > >
> > >  4. Give four substitutes for caret 'u.' (HUH?)
> > >
> > >  5. Give two rules for spelling words with final 'e.'
> > Name two exceptions under each rule.
> > >
> > >  6. Give two uses of silent letters in spelling.
> > Illustrate each.
> > >
> > >  7. Define the following prefixes and use in connection
> > with a word:
> > > bi, dis-mis, pre, semi, post, non, inter, mono, sup.
> > >
> > >  8. Mark diacritically and divide into syllables the
> > following, and name the sign that indicates the sound:
> > card,    ball,  mercy, sir, odd, cell, rise, blood, fare, last
> > >
> > >  9. Use the following correctly in sentences: cite, site,
> > sight, fane, fain, feign, vane , vain, vein, raze, raise, rays.
> > >
> > >  10. Write 10 words frequently mispronounced and indicate
> > > pronunciation by use of diacritical marks and by
> > syllabication.
> > >
> > > **_Geography (Time, one hour)_**
> > >
> > >  1 What is climate? Upon what does climate depend?
> > >
> > >  2. How do you account for the extremes of climate in
> > Kansas ?
> > >
> > >  3. Of what use are rivers? Of what use is the ocean?
> > >
> > >  4. Describe the mountains of North America
> > >
> > >  5. Name and describe the following: Monrovia , Odessa ,
> > Denver , Manitoba , Hecla , Yukon , St. Helena, Juan Fernandez,
> > Aspinwall and  Orinoco ..
> > >
> > >  6. Name and locate the principal trade centers of the
> > U.S.
> > >
> > >  7. Name all the republics of Europe and give the capital
> > of each.
> > >
> > >  8. Why is the Atlantic Coast colder than the Pacific in
> > the same latitude?
> > >
> > >  9. Describe the process by which the water of the ocean
> > returns to the sources of rivers.
> > >
> > >  10. Describe the movements of the earth. Give the
> > inclination of the earth
> > >
> > >  Notice that the exam took FIVE HOURS to complete.
> > >
> > >  Gives the saying "he only had an 8th grade education" a
> > whole new meaning, doesn't it?!
> > >
> > > Also shows you how poor our education system has become!
> > And no, I don't have the answers.
>

From paul bruesch <paul@bruesch.net>

Here's a little more background and analysis on the 8th grade education
from none other than the Salina Journal. Be sure to click the "full story"
link at the bottom of the little "Back to the (testing) Future" inset.

On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 5:46 PM, Jon Page <jonpage@comcast.net> wrote:

>   *Subject: **Fwd: Re: 8TH GRADE EDUCATION in 1895*****
>
>    ****
>   Remember when grandparents and great-grandparents stated that
>  they only had an 8th grade education? Well, check this out. Could
>  any of us have passed the 8th grade in 1895?
> Imagine this..****
>   <snipped>
>

From Joseph Giandalone <rufy@rcn.com>

An absurdly high percentage of my customers call to say that their piano DESPERATELY needs to be tuned, is in DESPERATE need of a tuning, DESPERATELY needs my attention, or some other permutation of same. Always DESPERATION is involved.

Funny

Joseph

p.s. yes I know this is OT to the original OT. What can I say? I desperately need the attention.




On Dec 4, 2012, at 10:35 AM, paul bruesch wrote:

> I've just been musing with a friend about grammar when I made a rather humorous (to me, anyhow) discovery...
> 
> How often do people call or email and say that their piano needs to be tuned badly?  It's grammatically more accurate to say that it badly needs to be tuned. I thought I could play the grammar cop and suggest that they don't want me to tune it badly... much more likely they want me to tune it well. But then there's the implication of tuning a well temperament, so maybe they want me to tune it equal. Or equally well, which of course is a contradiction... at least in our world. Sigh...
> 
> Disclaimer: I'm aware that this post is not in 100% compliance with grammar rules. Casual liberties have been taken.
> 
> Paul Bruesch
> Stillwater, MN
> 

From Albert Picknell <pnrfqsnrk@yahoo.ca>

--- On Tue, 12/4/12, Ron Nossaman <rnossaman@cox.net> wrote:

"And what sort of idiot spell checker doesn't recognize "limbic"?"


The kind that does recognize "lol" and "omg".

From Ron Nossaman <rnossaman@cox.net>

On 12/5/2012 12:37 PM, Albert Picknell wrote:
> --- On Tue, 12/4/12, Ron Nossaman <rnossaman@cox.net> wrote:
>
> "And what sort of idiot spell checker doesn't recognize "limbic"?"
>
>
> The kind that does recognize "lol" and "omg".


I'm afraid you're right. From the R&D department of Dumb Down University 
and Catfish Farm.
Ron N

From David Boyce <David@piano.plus.com>

This evening I have written and submitted a reference for a former 
student of mine who is applying to university. In the UK, such 
applications are processed by a body called UCAS; the Universities and 
Colleges Admissions Service.

I duly submitted the reference online, and a few moments later, received 
an email confirmation.

Here is the text of the beginning of the email:


Dear David Boyce

Your reference for Mr M*** H***** has now been received by us. The 
applicant will now be able to complete and send their application into 
us, we will contact them by email if they have provided a verified email 
address.

Now, folks, I am not a pedant in matters linguistic. I appreciate that 
languages constantly change and evolve. But there is fascinating change 
and evolution, and there is slovenliness.  The secodn sentence of the 
above contains two annoying illiteracies; "into" should of course be "in 
to" (and the "in" is redundant in any case) and a Comma Splice has been 
used instead of a semicolon after "us".

The body who sent that email to me are responsible for almost all of the 
admissions to Higher Education institutions in the UK.  If they are so 
illiterate in so short a communication, what are we to expect in general?

Best regards,

David.

From paul bruesch <paul@bruesch.net>

Well, "their" and "them" and "they" refer to more than one person, yet the
subject of the sentence is the "applicant", singular. Given that the
university has the individual's name and title, "Mr.", it is clearly aware
of the person's gender, ergo it is a simple matter to say "his
application", "contact him", and "if he has provided".

Certainly "his or her", "he or she", etc. is an awkward construct, but it's
not even necessary here, or in many other cases where "they" (etc.) are
used instead.

On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 4:24 PM, David Boyce <David@piano.plus.com> wrote:

>  This evening I have written and submitted a reference for a former
> student of mine who is applying to university. In the UK, such applications
> are processed by a body called UCAS; the Universities and Colleges
> Admissions Service.
>
> I duly submitted the reference online, and a few moments later, received
> an email confirmation.
>
> Here is the text of the beginning of the email:
>
>
> Dear David Boyce
>
> Your reference for Mr M*** H***** has now been received by us. The
> applicant will now be able to complete and send their application into us,
> we will contact them by email if they have provided a verified email
> address.
>
> Now, folks, I am not a pedant in matters linguistic. I appreciate that
> languages constantly change and evolve. But there is fascinating change and
> evolution, and there is slovenliness.  The secodn sentence of the above
> contains two annoying illiteracies; "into" should of course be "in to" (and
> the "in" is redundant in any case) and a Comma Splice has been used instead
> of a semicolon after "us".
>
> The body who sent that email to me are responsible for almost all of the
> admissions to Higher Education institutions in the UK.  If they are so
> illiterate in so short a communication, what are we to expect in general?
>
> Best regards,
>
> David.
>
>

From Terry Beckingham <t46xd8jb@xplornet.com>

David,

I think you missed one glaring error.

"The applicant will now be able to complete and send their application into 
us "

Should that not have read "The applicant will now be able to complete and 
send his or her applications to us" ?

Terry Beckingham.



At 10:24 PM 12/5/2012 +0000, you wrote:
>This evening I have written and submitted a reference for a former student 
>of mine who is applying to university. In the UK, such applications are 
>processed by a body called UCAS; the Universities and Colleges Admissions 
>Service.
>
>I duly submitted the reference online, and a few moments later, received 
>an email confirmation.
>
>Here is the text of the beginning of the email:
>
>
>Dear David Boyce
>
>Your reference for Mr M*** H***** has now been received by us. The 
>applicant will now be able to complete and send their application into us, 
>we will contact them by email if they have provided a verified email address.
>
>Now, folks, I am not a pedant in matters linguistic. I appreciate that 
>languages constantly change and evolve. But there is fascinating change 
>and evolution, and there is slovenliness.  The secodn sentence of the 
>above contains two annoying illiteracies; "into" should of course be "in 
>to" (and the "in" is redundant in any case) and a Comma Splice has been 
>used instead of a semicolon after "us".
>
>The body who sent that email to me are responsible for almost all of the 
>admissions to Higher Education institutions in the UK.  If they are so 
>illiterate in so short a communication, what are we to expect in general?
>
>Best regards,
>
>David.

From David Boyce <David@piano.plus.com>

Terry and Paul,

You are right, of course, about the misuse of "their".

Terry, while "their" is strictly a plural, it is considered permissible 
(if inelegant) to use it where gender cannot be specifed. Many 
expressions would otherwise become rather cumbersome, with constant 
repetitions of "his or her" instead.

However, in this instance (as you point out, Paul) the email itseld DOES 
specify the gender, referring to "Mr M*** H*****".  It ought therefore 
to say "his".

This email came from, not a university, but from the administrative body 
responsible for processing applications to ALL universities!

The whole thing is stylistically poor as well as having real errors. Why 
use the Passive Voice in that first sentence? And in a clumsy way.

Best regards,

David.

P.S. I have the CELTA (Certificate in English Language Teaching to Adults)

From pianolover 88 <pianolover88@hotmail.com>

I guess even someone with a "CELTA" isn't immune to making grammatical mistakes.

Cheers,

Terry "UniGeezer" Peterson
"Over 50, and not '2' Tired!" 
www.unigeezer.com


Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 00:51:42 +0000
From: David@piano.plus.com
To: pianotech@ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] OT: Grammar


  

    
  
  
    Terry and Paul, 

      

      You are right, of course, about the misuse of "their". 

      

      Terry, while "their" is strictly a plural, it is considered
      permissible (if inelegant) to use it where gender cannot be
      specifed. Many expressions would otherwise become rather
      cumbersome, with constant repetitions of "his or her" instead. 

      

      However, in this instance (as you point out, Paul) the email
      itseld DOES specify the gender, referring to "Mr M*** H*****".  It
      ought therefore to say "his".

      

      This email came from, not a university, but from the
      administrative body responsible for processing applications to ALL
      universities!

      

      The whole thing is stylistically poor as well as having real
      errors. Why use the Passive Voice in that first sentence? And in a
      clumsy way.

      

      Best regards,

      

      David.

      

      P.S. I have the CELTA (Certificate in English Language Teaching to
      Adults)

     		 	   		  

From Euphonious Thumpe <lclgcnp@yahoo.com>

A few years ago, the head of the entire University of Georgia system, in response to criticism claiming that the system put more emphasis on sports than learning, sent a memo out  reading: "Though we at the University of Georgia love our athletic program, we will never allow it to stand in the way of acedemic excellence." 
(Or something to that affect!)*

Thumpe

*Yes, I know that should have read "effect". ( Just joshing you!)

From Rob McCall <rob@mccallpiano.com>

I know you meant to say "academic", too...  :-)

Regards,

Rob McCall

McCall Piano Service, LLC
www.mccallpiano.com
Murrieta, CA
951-698-1875

On Dec 05, 2012, at 20:50 , Euphonious Thumpe <lclgcnp@yahoo.com> wrote:

> 
> A few years ago, the head of the entire University of Georgia system, in response to criticism claiming that the system put more emphasis on sports than learning, sent a memo out reading: "Though we at the University of Georgia love our athletic program, we will never allow it to stand in the way of acedemic excellence." 
> (Or something to that affect!)*
> 
> Thumpe
> 
> *Yes, I know that should have read "effect". ( Just joshing you!)

From Euphonious Thumpe <lclgcnp@yahoo.com>

Oh, yes, I did....... but HE didn't! He actually spelled it "acedemic" on the press release!

I am frequently calling up the student newspaper to point out "peaked his curiosity" (instead of "piqued") and other such errors, too. (Pretty pathetic for a bunch of grads from the vaunted Peabody School of Journalism!)        
     Yes, language is always "evolving"; but misuses are misuses,* and with them dies the subtlety of meaning which makes a language articulate. The disdain for precise speaking which we encounter among so many souls today is a symptom of a wider disdain of precision, IMHO, and with that goes a society's collapse. (So, yes, it DOES matter!)

Thumpe
     
     
* I suspect that the crowd that condones sloppy word usage the same bunch encouraging everyone to quit bathing, so that we will all "develop our immune systems"!

From Euphonious Thumpe <lclgcnp@yahoo.com>

Oops!  That should have read "Grady College of Journalism", whence from the Peabody Awards arise.

(As it's 4:30 A.M., I hope that I may be forgiven.)

Thumpe

P.S. The late, great, Harvey N. Roehl ( publisher of Reblitz's books, and piano historian) had a hobby late in life of photographing misspelled signs and such. He compiled them (some of which were quite funny!) into a book. (That's ONE way of dealing with the stress of seeing your fellow Americans --- and possible future nursing home attendants --- becoming less literate.)

From "Mike Kurta" <mkurta1@charter.net>

Another two that wrankles me are those who say "I could care less," when they really mean they COULD'NT care less.  And waitresses who ask me and my wife, "What will youse have?"  
  

                                                

					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
                                                

                                                    
                                                        
                                                        Original Message
                                                
                                                 Original Message ----- 
  From: Euphonious Thumpe 
  To: pianotech@ptg.org 
  Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 4:41 AM
  Subject: Re: [pianotech] OT: Grammar


        Oops! That should have read "Grady College of Journalism", whence from the Peabody Awards arise.

        (As it's 4:30 A.M., I hope that I may be forgiven.)

        Thumpe

        P.S. The late, great, Harvey N. Roehl ( publisher of Reblitz's books, and piano historian) had a hobby late in life of photographing misspelled signs and such. He compiled them (some of which were quite funny!) into a book. (That's ONE way of dealing with the stress of seeing your fellow Americans --- and possible future nursing home attendants --- becoming less literate.) 




------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  From: Euphonious Thumpe <lclgcnp@yahoo.com>; 
  To: <pianotech@ptg.org>; 
  Subject: Re: [pianotech] OT: Grammar 
  Sent: Thu, Dec 6, 2012 9:15:49 AM 

              Oh, yes, I did....... but HE didn't! He actually spelled it "acedemic" on the press release!

              I am frequently calling up the student newspaper to point out "peaked his curiosity" (instead of "piqued") and other such errors, too. (Pretty pathetic for a bunch of grads from the vaunted Peabody School of Journalism!) 
              Yes, language is always "evolving"; but misuses are misuses,* and with them dies the subtlety of meaning which makes a language articulate. The disdain for precise speaking which we encounter among so many souls today is a symptom of a wider disdain of precision, IMHO, and with that goes a society's collapse. (So, yes, it DOES matter!)

              Thumpe


              * I suspect that the crowd that condones sloppy word usage the same bunch encouraging everyone to quit bathing, so that we will all "develop our immune systems"! 




------------------------------------------------------------------------
        From: Rob McCall <rob@mccallpiano.com>; 
        To: <pianotech@ptg.org>; 
        Subject: Re: [pianotech] OT: Grammar 
        Sent: Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:48:03 AM 

              I know you meant to say "academic", too...  :-)


              Regards,


              Rob McCall


              McCall Piano Service, LLC
              www.mccallpiano.com
              Murrieta, CA
              951-698-1875



              On Dec 05, 2012, at 20:50 , Euphonious Thumpe <lclgcnp@yahoo.com> wrote:


                      A few years ago, the head of the entire University of Georgia system, in response to criticism claiming that the system put more emphasis on sports than learning, sent a memo out reading: "Though we at the University of Georgia love our athletic program, we will never allow it to stand in the way of acedemic excellence." 
                      (Or something to that affect!)*

                      Thumpe

                      *Yes, I know that should have read "effect". ( Just joshing you!) 


             
       

From paul bruesch <paul@bruesch.net>

Thumpe,
"Whence" means "from where", so to say "from whence" (or as you did "whence
from") is redundant.
Just sayin'.
Paul Bruesch
Stillwater, MN

On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 3:41 AM, Euphonious Thumpe <lclgcnp@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Oops! That should have read "Grady College of Journalism", whence from the
> Peabody Awards arise.
>
> (As it's 4:30 A.M., I hope that I may be forgiven.)
>
> Thumpe
>
> P.S. The late, great, Harvey N. Roehl ( publisher of Reblitz's books, and
> piano historian) had a hobby late in life of photographing misspelled signs
> and such. He compiled them (some of which were quite funny!) into a book.
> (That's ONE way of dealing with the stress of seeing your fellow Americans
> --- and possible future nursing home attendants --- becoming less literate.)
>
>

From Euphonious Thumpe <lclgcnp@yahoo.com>

and "the" hoi poloi is also redundant, as "hoi" means "the" in Greek!

Thumpe