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Splicing Strings

  • 1.  Splicing Strings

    Posted 04-07-2005 22:20
    From Matthew Todd <toddpianoworks@yahoo.com>
    
    I tried my first attempt at splicing a bass string.  I followed Reblitz' diagram.  As with all first things, it turned out like crap.  Do any of you have pics of a splice step by step?  I need to do what I'm doing wrong and if I'm on the right track at all.  I need help!!
    
    Thanks!
    Matthew
    
    
    		
    ---------------------------------
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  • 2.  Splicing Strings

    Posted 04-08-2005 00:14
    From David Ilvedson <ilvey@sbcglobal.net>
    
    You really should try with some plain wire until you get the hang of it...bass strings can have some heavy wire...
    
    The way I do it...
    
    1st you really need the wire broken at the pin, which doesn't usually happen.   This will give you plenty of wire to work with...
    push the wound portion through the agraffe.   I like to work from the tail end on this piece...leaning over the curve.  With the round needle nose or better yet vice-grip (which I haven't mastered) make the bend to the left and loose, i.e. with a gap.  The end of wire needs to be above the plane of the wire.   With the new wire to be spliced on (plenty long!!!) make a bend to the right and tight.   Turn the piece around the snap it onto the wound string.   pushing the new wire up until it pops over the left and loose bend end and goes through the loop.  You may need to push the right and tight loop over the wound portion just be careful not to damage the windings.   Now pull the spliced piece until you have the classic tied knot.   Squeeze the bends with a needle nose pliers and ship off excess, measure to tuning pin and bring it up to pitch.   It will either immediately fall apart or tighten up.
    
    David I.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Original message
    From: Matthew Todd
    To: Pianotech
    Received: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 21:20:21 -0700 (PDT)
    Subject: Splicing Strings
    
    
    I tried my first attempt at splicing a bass string.  I followed Reblitz' diagram.  As with all first things, it turned out like crap.  Do any of you have pics of a splice step by step?  I need to do what I'm doing wrong and if I'm on the right track at all.  I need help!!
    Thanks!
    Matthew
    
    
    Do you Yahoo!?
    Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
    


  • 3.  Splicing Strings

    Posted 04-08-2005 00:42
    From "Paul McCloud" <pmc033@earthlink.net>
    
    Matthew:
         Don't worry too much about it.  It just takes some practice.  
        Here's what I do.  Hold the old wire straight up.  Use a vicegrips to make a loop which crosses over on the left side.  It doesn't matter which way you make the loop.  I use a vicegrips which has a long nose.  Round nose pliers aren't useful here, IMHO.  Now, take the new piece of wire and hold it straight up, same as before.  Make another loop, but this time, MAKE IT CROSS OVER ON THE RIGHT SIDE.  Make sure that the ends point the SAME DIRECTION.  Hold both the old and new wires straight up, and see that the loops end up on opposite sides of their respective wires.  Both loops are going to be going the same direction.  If your loops are pointing in the same direction and cross over on opposite sides, you're almost done.
        Now, hold the loop with your pliers, squeezing the loop together and bend the loop against the crossover point and a little more, so the loop is leaning over at a 15 degree angle towards the side of the crossover.  
        Do the other wire similarly.  
        Your loops can be about the diameter of a pencil or smaller.  
        Next step.  Slide the loop of the new wire over the looped end of the old wire and down the old wire, over the copper winding.  Bending the loop at an angle allows the loop to slide down the windings of the old wire more easily.
        Now, take the long end of the new wire and thread it through the loop in the old bass wire.    Pull the two loops together by tugging on the two wires as far as possible.  Trim excess wire  from the ends, and try to close the loops as much as possible.  
        The hardest part is pushing one loop over the other and having the wires mate properly.  If they don't make a clean knot, separate the two wires again and start over.  The ends of the wire should extend in opposite directions from your knot, and you should see that the knot will tighten under tension.  
         The key is in making the loops in a consistent manner, with the loops going in the SAME direction, but the ends of the wire crossing over on OPPOSITE sides.  If you do it this way, you'll get it.  If you make the loops improperly, your knot won't work.
        If I had more time, I'd send you some photos.  Maybe tomorrow.  Hope this makes some sense.
        Good luck,
        Paul McCloud
        San Diego
    
    
    


  • 4.  Splicing Strings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-08-2005 00:56
    From David Vanderhoofven <david@vanderpiano.com>
    
    Hi Matthew,
    
    Here is one way to do a splice.  I am sure there are at least 6 or 7 other 
    methods that will work also!
    
    splice1.jpg
    Using round nose pliers, make a 270 degree bend in one wire.  Then make 
    another 270 degree bend in the wire you are using to make the splice with.
    
    splice2.jpg
    Connect the two pieces of wire as shown.
    
    splice3.jpg
    As you pull  on the ends of the wires, the knot will begin to form.
    
    splice4.jpg
    Another view of the knot.
    
    splice5.jpg
    Cut the ends of the wires so they are not sticking out more than 
    1/4".  1/8" is better!  Just don't cut the ends so close that the knot 
    could slip.
    
    Now that the knot is formed and pulling tight, you are ready to put the 
    string in the piano.  Attach the loop to the hitch pin, thread it through 
    the bridge pins, up to the upper bridge pin (or agraffe), up to the tuning 
    pin.  Measure the length you need to make 3 turns around the tuning pin, 
    and install the string.  As you increase tension on the string, the knot 
    will pull tighter and tighter.  Voila!
    
    Hope this is helpful!
    
    David Vanderhoofven
    Joplin, MO
    
    
    
    
    At 11:20 PM 4/7/2005, you wrote:
    
    >Do any of you have pics of a splice step by step?
    >Thanks!
    >Matthew
    


  • 5.  Splicing Strings

    Posted 04-08-2005 07:39
    From "Alan" <tune4u@earthlink.net>
    
    This is a CLASSIC example of something that is very hard to learn out of a
    book or by anyone's written description. The ONLY use for round nosed
    pliers, IMH?O, is to make a biggish loop to wind around itself as a hitch
    pin loop. For splicing, it's two hard to make the loops small enough and
    even enough and you tend to get at least one sharp corner in each loop.
    Then, when you want to tighten the knot, you have to pull it way too much so
    it's hard to control where the knot ends up in the piano.
     
    For splicing string, forget every other method and get yourself some 5" Vice
    Grips (I think it says 5CW on the handle). This easily makes SMALL loops
    that come together in a small, tight knot. 
     
    If you haven't got a copy of the PTG Technical Exam Sourcebook, get it now
    (PTG bookstore). In the copy I have, page V4 has a good set of pics to show
    splicing in this manner and page V5 has  a great hitch-loop procedure
    demonstrated. Yea, Bill Spurlock.
     
    Someone who has learned these methods could SHOW you in 5 minutes and you'd
    have a lifetime skill. It's so much easier to learn aural and mechanical
    skills when they are demonstrated and then you can try it in the presence of
    the one teaching. Hard to learn in the abstract and on your own. That's been
    the frustration of most of us in the business ...
     
    Contact PTG offices about schedules for the Associates Seminar and plan to
    attend if you can. I know they have one planned at National in June.
     
    Alan R. Barnard
    Salem, MO
    
     
    
    
    -- 
    No virus found in this outgoing message.
    Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
    Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.4 - Release Date: 04/06/2005
     
    


  • 6.  Splicing Strings

    Posted 04-08-2005 08:09
    From "jason kanter" <jkanter@rollingball.com>
    
    Nice pix. One BIG warning: if the break is between agraffe and tuning pin,
    make sure you pass the string through the agraffe *before* forming the loop
    in that section of string!
    
    


  • 7.  Splicing Strings

    Posted 04-08-2005 10:35
    From Richard Gullion <pianoguy@rogers.com>
    
    I have yet to master the KNOT...and is probably the major stumbling block for me, in trying the technical exam for RPT. Any ideas ??
    
    jason kanter <jkanter@rollingball.com> wrote:Nice pix. One BIG warning: if the break is between agraffe and tuning pin,
    make sure you pass the string through the agraffe *before* forming the loop
    in that section of string!
    
    


  • 8.  Splicing Strings

    Posted 04-08-2005 12:24
    From "Alan" <tune4u@earthlink.net>
    
    For everyone who struggles with this: Find someone who can show you how to
    use the 5" vice grip method (put the round nose pliers away). In 5 minutes,
    you'll be an expert.
     
    Alan R. Barnard
    Salem, MO
    
    


  • 9.  Splicing Strings

    Posted 04-08-2005 15:33
      |   view attached
    From Avery Todd <avery1@houston.rr.com>
    
    Well, Alan. Can you provide some pictures/instructions on the "vice grip" 
    method?
    I just showed my "apprentice" the pictures/instructions that David sent and 
    I'll
    have to say that that is the way I passed the technical exam. So I 'KNOW' 
    it works.
    
    Avery
    
    At 01:23 PM 4/8/05, you wrote:
    >For everyone who struggles with this: Find someone who can show you how to 
    >use the 5" vice grip method (put the round nose pliers away). In 5 
    >minutes, you'll be an expert.
    >
    >Alan R. Barnard
    >Salem, MO
    >


  • 10.  Splicing Strings

    Posted 04-08-2005 16:23
      |   view attached
    From "Alan" <tune4u@earthlink.net>
    
    Yep. it works. But it makes big, loose knots compared to the vice grips
    method. You DO have to use the round nose method, however, if you are making
    a loop that will slip over bass string windings.
     
    I'm spending some time tomorrow with David Vanderhooven who posted the nice
    pictures you referred to. Maybe he and I will slug it out and the winner
    will get back to you. <G>
     
    My method is not MY method, BTW, it was in a Bill Spurlock journal artical
    and is the method being taught at the Associates Seminar. I just think it is
    at least 15 degrees cooler than the "old" way. But it's not worth any raised
    hackles, so sorry if I sounded preachy.
     
    I posted the following earlier today:
     
    This is a CLASSIC example of something that is very hard to learn out of a
    book or by anyone's written description. The ONLY use for round nosed
    pliers, IMH?O, is to make a biggish loop to wind around itself as a hitch
    pin loop. For splicing, it's two hard to make the loops small enough and
    even enough and you tend to get at least one sharp corner in each loop.
    Then, when you want to tighten the knot, you have to pull it way too much so
    it's hard to control where the knot ends up in the piano.
     
    For splicing string, forget every other method and get yourself some 5" Vice
    Grips (I think it says 5CW on the handle). This easily makes SMALL loops
    that come together in a small, tight knot. 
     
    ... [see the] PTG Technical Exam Sourcebook... In the copy I have, page V4
    has a good set of pics to show splicing in this manner and page V5 has  a
    great hitch-loop procedure demonstrated ... It's so much easier to learn
    aural and mechanical skills when they are demonstrated and then you can try
    it in the presence of the one teaching. Hard to learn in the abstract and on
    your own. That's been the frustration of most of us in the business ...
     
    Alan R. Barnard
    Salem, MO
    
    


  • 11.  Splicing Strings (New pictures of the superior method)

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-13-2005 10:42
    From David Vanderhoofven <david@vanderpiano.com>
    
    Hi Alan,
    
    Thanks for visiting me on Saturday and taking me out to lunch.  Here are 
    some pictures of your SUPERIOR method of splicing strings.  (Scroll down to 
    the end of the email for the pictures.)
    
    At 05:23 PM 4/8/2005, you wrote:
    >Yep. it works. But it makes big, loose knots compared to the vice grips 
    >method. You DO have to use the round nose method, however, if you are 
    >making a loop that will slip over bass string windings.
    
    The round nose pliers make hugely oversized loops compared to the perfectly 
    sized loops made using a skilled technician trained in the proper use of 
    vise grips.
    
    >I'm spending some time tomorrow with David Vanderhooven who posted the 
    >nice pictures you referred to. Maybe he and I will slug it out and the 
    >winner will get back to you. <G>
    
    There was no slugging involved, and I am not the winner.  However, Alan 
    didn't take any pictures and I did, so here they are.  (Scroll down to the 
    bottom for the pictures)
    
    >This is a CLASSIC example of something that is very hard to learn out of a 
    >book or by anyone's written description. The ONLY use for round nosed 
    >pliers, IMH?O, is to make a biggish loop to wind around itself as a hitch 
    >pin loop. For splicing, it's two hard to make the loops small enough and 
    >even enough and you tend to get at least one sharp corner in each loop. 
    >Then, when you want to tighten the knot, you have to pull it way too much 
    >so it's hard to control where the knot ends up in the piano.
    
    Now that I have been enlightened, I agree with Alan's remarks as listed above.
    
    >For splicing string, forget every other method and get yourself some 5" 
    >Vice Grips (I think it says 5CW on the handle). This easily makes SMALL 
    >loops that come together in a small, tight knot.
    >
    >... [see the] PTG Technical Exam Sourcebook... In the copy I have, page V4 
    >has a good set of pics to show splicing in this manner and page V5 has  a 
    >great hitch-loop procedure demonstrated ... It's so much easier to learn 
    >aural and mechanical skills when they are demonstrated and then you can 
    >try it in the presence of the one teaching. Hard to learn in the abstract 
    >and on your own. That's been the frustration of most of us in the business ...
    
    I couldn't visualize the procedure until Alan showed me. Thanks for 
    teaching me, Alan!
    
    >Alan R. Barnard
    >Salem, MO
    
    Sincerely,
    David Vanderhoofven
    Joplin, MO
    
    Pictures described
    
    Visegrips1.jpg
    Using a pair of small visegrips pliers, clamp the end of the wire.  How 
    much wire is held between the jaws of the pliers determines how much of a 
    tail the knot will have.
    
    Visegrips2.jpg
    Hold the wire in one hand and rotate the visegrips pliers to make a neat 
    270 degree loop in the wire.  It is very easy to control the size of the 
    loop with this method.
    
    Visegrips3.jpg
    The completed loop
    
    Visegrips4.jpg
    Comparing my massively oversized loops (on the left) to Alan's loop that is 
    just the right size (on the right)
    
    Visegrips5.jpg
    Put the end of the long wire into the newly completed loop in the shorter 
    piece of wire used to make the splice.
    
    Visegrips6.jpg
    Make a neat loop in the end of the long wire.  Just use the opposite motion 
    with the pliers as used in the picture titled Visegrips2.jpg.
    
    Visegrips7.jpg
    Insert the end of the short wire into the newly completed loop in the long 
    wire.  Here you can see the neat loops made by Alan with vise grips pliers 
    (on the left), compared with the extremely oversized loops made by me using 
    round nose pliers (on the right).
    
    Visegrips8.jpg
    Although the picture is blurred, you can see Alan's splice made with vise 
    grips (on the left) compared with my splice made with round nose pliers (on 
    the right).  I have applied a lot of tension on my splice and got it to 
    make a small knot.  Notice the long ends sticking out of my knot.  Compare 
    that to Alan's knot, which has had NO tension applied to it yet.  Either 
    knot will hold under tension, but The knot made with vise grips pliers is 
    neater and more elegant.
    


  • 12.  Splicing Strings (New pictures of the superior method)

    Posted 04-13-2005 11:18
    From Ron Nossaman <rnossaman@cox.net>
    
    > I couldn't visualize the procedure until Alan showed me. Thanks for 
    > teaching me, Alan!
    
    
    Hi David,
    Now look at Bill Bremmer's article in your December 2004 Journal, 
    and you'll see the same thing.
      Ron N
    


  • 13.  Splicing Strings (New pictures of the superior method)

    Posted 04-13-2005 11:41
    From "Michael Gamble" <michael@gambles.fsnet.co.uk>
    
    Hello David Van  and List
    What I like about the reef-knot splice is the very compact knot it makes 
    with no ends sticking out. For this knot you need: One pair strong small 
    round-nosed, One duck-billed (so you can see what you're doing) and plenty 
    of practice.
    Regards
    Michael G.(UK)
    > 
    


  • 14.  Splicing Strings (New pictures of the superior method)

    Posted 06-01-2005 20:49
    From Carl Teplitski <koko99@shaw.ca>
    
    Couldn't wait tp open your message, and found no pics. Is it me, or
    didn't the pics. get sent ???  Disappointed !!
    
    Carl  /  Winnipeg
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Michael Gamble wrote:
    
    > Hello David Van  and List
    > What I like about the reef-knot splice is the very compact knot it 
    > makes with no ends sticking out. For this knot you need: One pair 
    > strong small round-nosed, One duck-billed (so you can see what you're 
    > doing) and plenty of practice.
    > Regards
    > Michael G.(UK)
    >
    >>
    >
    >
    > _______________________________________________
    > pianotech list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech
    >
    


  • 15.  Splicing Strings (New pictures of the superior method)

    Posted 06-01-2005 21:24
    From Don <pianotuna@yahoo.com>
    
    Hi Carl,
    
    Here are some images:
    
    http://www.kencove.com/stafix/tieinl.gif
    
    
    At 09:49 PM 6/1/2005 -0500, you wrote:
    >
    >Couldn't wait tp open your message, and found no pics. Is it me, or
    >didn't the pics. get sent ???  Disappointed !!
    >
    >Carl  /  Winnipeg
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >Michael Gamble wrote:
    >
    >> Hello David Van  and List
    >> What I like about the reef-knot splice is the very compact knot it 
    >> makes with no ends sticking out. For this knot you need: One pair 
    >> strong small round-nosed, One duck-billed (so you can see what you're 
    >> doing) and plenty of practice.
    >> Regards
    >> Michael G.(UK)
    >>
    >>>
    >>
    >>
    >> _______________________________________________
    >> pianotech list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech
    >>
    >
    >_______________________________________________
    >pianotech list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech
    >
    >
    >-- 
    >No virus found in this incoming message.
    >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
    >Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release Date: 6/1/2005
    >
    >
    
    Regards,
    Don Rose, B.Mus., A.M.U.S., A.MUS., R.P.T.
    Non calor sed umor est qui nobis incommodat
    
    mailto:pianotuna@yahoo.com	http://us.geocities.com/drpt1948/
    
    3004 Grant Rd. REGINA, SK, S4S 5G7
    306-352-3620 or 1-888-29t-uner
    


  • 16.  Splicing Strings (New pictures of the superior method)

    Posted 06-01-2005 21:30
    From Hechler Family <dahechler@charter.net>
    
    I've only seen the top one used, I call the "double P".
    
    How long has the Boy Scout Square Knot been in use ??
    
    Thanks
    
    Don wrote:
    
    >Hi Carl,
    >
    >Here are some images:
    >
    >http://www.kencove.com/stafix/tieinl.gif
    >
    >  
    >
    
    -- 
    Duaine Hechler
    Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ
    Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding
    Associate Member of the Piano Technicians Guild
    Reed Organ Society Member
    St. Louis, MO 63034
    (314) 838-5587
    dahechler@charter.net
    www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com
    


  • 17.  Splicing Strings (New pictures of the superior method)

    Posted 06-10-2005 22:44
    From Carl Teplitski <koko99@shaw.ca>
    
    Thanks Don . . great pics.
    
    Carl
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Don wrote:
    
    >Hi Carl,
    >
    >Here are some images:
    >
    >http://www.kencove.com/stafix/tieinl.gif
    >
    >
    >At 09:49 PM 6/1/2005 -0500, you wrote:
    >  
    >
    >>Couldn't wait tp open your message, and found no pics. Is it me, or
    >>didn't the pics. get sent ???  Disappointed !!
    >>
    >>Carl  /  Winnipeg
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>Michael Gamble wrote:
    >>
    >>    
    >>
    >>>Hello David Van  and List
    >>>What I like about the reef-knot splice is the very compact knot it 
    >>>makes with no ends sticking out. For this knot you need: One pair 
    >>>strong small round-nosed, One duck-billed (so you can see what you're 
    >>>doing) and plenty of practice.
    >>>Regards
    >>>Michael G.(UK)
    >>>
    >>>      
    >>>
    >>>_______________________________________________
    >>>pianotech list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech
    >>>
    >>>      
    >>>
    >>_______________________________________________
    >>pianotech list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech
    >>
    >>
    >>-- 
    >>No virus found in this incoming message.
    >>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
    >>Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release Date: 6/1/2005
    >>
    >>
    >>    
    >>
    >
    >Regards,
    >Don Rose, B.Mus., A.M.U.S., A.MUS., R.P.T.
    >Non calor sed umor est qui nobis incommodat
    >
    >mailto:pianotuna@yahoo.com	http://us.geocities.com/drpt1948/
    >
    >3004 Grant Rd. REGINA, SK, S4S 5G7
    >306-352-3620 or 1-888-29t-uner
    >
    >_______________________________________________
    >pianotech list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech
    >
    >  
    >
    


  • 18.  Splicing Strings (New pictures of the superior method)

    Posted 06-11-2005 13:38
    From "JAMES DALLY" <jdally@ecr.net>
    
    CarL I missed some of this; thus, the pictures don't relate to me how to proceed.  Can you advise how to get more information?   Many thanks,  Jim Dally
      


  • 19.  Splicing Strings (New pictures of the superior method)

    Posted 06-11-2005 21:55
    From Carl Teplitski <koko99@shaw.ca>
    
    Scroll down and open pics from Don.
    
    Carl
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    JAMES DALLY wrote:
    
    > CarL I missed some of this; thus, the pictures don't relate to me how 
    > to proceed.  Can you advise how to get more information?   Many 
    > thanks,  Jim Dally
    >
    >     


  • 20.  Splicing Strings

    Posted 04-09-2005 00:50
    From "Joe Garrett" <joegarrett@earthlink.net>
    
    Richard said: "I have yet to master the KNOT...and is probably the major stumbling block for me, in trying the technical exam for RPT. Any ideas ??"
    
    Richard et al,
    Practice, practice, practice.....!<G> You didn't learn to tune overnight, and especially w/o lots of practice. Don't wait for a string to break before you attempt to do the knot(s)! The easiest way, I know, is to get some electrical wire w/sheathing, different colors. It's soft copper, so it's easy to manipulate. There are three knots that you need to learn: 1. The Tuner's Knot, which is actually pointed out by Ron Nossman to be the Theif's Knot. 2. The Square Knot. Any Boy Scout book will show you this one and the next one. 3. The Sheet Bend. This knot can be used where you don't want the string sticking out, sideways on one side, but you have room on the other side. All of these knots will work and can be mastered with a little PRACTICE.<G>
    Regards,
    
    
    Joe Garrett, R.P.T.
    Captain, Tool Police
    Squares R I


  • 21.  Splicing Strings

    Posted 04-09-2005 19:37
    From "William R. Monroe" <pianotech@a440piano.net>
    
    Joe,
    
    Why all three?  Just curious.  I've used the sheet bend exclusively till
    recently, and just started tying the tuner's knot to see if it works better
    at any particular time....so far, it's mainly just a different knot for me.
    Am I missing something, or is there a situation that might call for one type
    of knot, but not the other knot.  A not neat knot need not be knotted, BTW.
    
    Respectfully,
    William R. Monroe
    
    
    
    


  • 22.  Splicing Strings

    Member
    Posted 04-09-2005 15:46
      |   view attached
    From "Phil Romano" <promano@nc.rr.com>
    
    They (the pictures)  are in the Guild Technical Study manual.
     
    Phil Romano 
    
    


  • 23.  Splicing Strings

    Posted 04-09-2005 16:24
      |   view attached
    From Avery Todd <avery1@houston.rr.com>
    
    Sorry. Thanks, Phil. I didn't think to look there. Oldszeimers strikes 
    again! :-(
    
    Avery
    
    At 04:46 PM 4/9/05, you wrote:
    >They (the pictures)  are in the Guild Technical Study manual.
    >
    >Phil Romano
    >