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Who wants to talk about food and drink in practice rooms and how you deal with it??

  • 1.  Who wants to talk about food and drink in practice rooms and how you deal with it??

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-14-2015 16:57

    Hi folks...

    I will figure out how to search for such a subject in here, but I'd like to start some (new?) dialog on how everyone "deals" with food and drink in practice rooms.

    At my new job here at WWU, there is no signage (YET) in any of the rooms.
    We bare very soon getting in a slew of new uprights in there and I will be even more neurotic if I see food or drink on them.

    I mentioned (in jest) that fining students for bringing food/ drink in there would be great (and I actually think they are going to look into it) but I don't know how that could be implemented- or used for visiting folks- and I certainly don't want to be play "officer UNfriendly".

    I'm thinking some good words and a couple of pictures of killer clowns holding severed limbs would do the trick (for that would scare ME..) but wondering what you folks do and if you have a protocol for dealing with it.

    many thanks in advance!!

    :}
    Michelle

    ------------------------------
    Michelle Stranges
    Western Washington University
    Bellingham, WA
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Who wants to talk about food and drink in practice rooms and how you deal with it??

    Posted 12-14-2015 17:41
    Any food or drink brought into practice rooms will be dumped into the
    computer bag and/or backpack of the guilty and vigorously stomped for an
    extended period.
    -- Jason "Drop" Hammer --



    Ron N


    Original Message


  • 3.  RE: Who wants to talk about food and drink in practice rooms and how you deal with it??

    Posted 12-14-2015 17:51
    Okay, okay, how about this:


    With the acquisition of these new pianos, we have installed a state of
    the art electronic device which causes all foodstuffs to explode
    violently shortly after being brought into the practice room. Please
    save us the nuisance of cleaning up the body parts by not bringing in
    food or drink.

    Thank you for your survival instincts.


    Ron N


    Original Message


  • 4.  RE: Who wants to talk about food and drink in practice rooms and how you deal with it??

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-14-2015 18:41

    Someone I talked to about this also suggested fake survalience (sp??) cameras in there too.

    (That might cut down on "other practice room shenanigans" that go on in there...)

    :}

    ------------------------------
    Michelle Stranges
    Western Washington University
    Bellingham, WA

    Original Message


  • 5.  RE: Who wants to talk about food and drink in practice rooms and how you deal with it??

    Posted 12-14-2015 19:07
    > Someone I talked to about this also suggested fake survalience (sp??) cameras in there too.

    with gun ports.


    This has been discussed extensively, but I don't recall anything
    optimistic coming of it, unfortunately. Hopefully, I just forgot. You
    can chain benches to the floor, but food patrol requires someone's full
    time, unless all the students are both literate and cooperative.

    Wow, imagine that!
    Ron N


    Original Message


  • 6.  RE: Who wants to talk about food and drink in practice rooms and how you deal with it??

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-14-2015 19:35

    Someone else pipe in here before Ron puts up that photo of the big, scary spider!!!

    :}

    ------------------------------
    Michelle Stranges
    Western Washington University
    Bellingham, WA

    Original Message


  • 7.  RE: Who wants to talk about food and drink in practice rooms and how you deal with it??

    Posted 12-14-2015 20:19
    WOW, what a great thought! Under the photo, "These guys LIKE food and
    drink in the practice rooms. Please do not feed them again." It's not
    killer clowns, but it worked for you. :)

    As an afterthought, I added "again' after "them". I think it made all
    the difference.

    Ron N


    Original Message


  • 8.  RE: Who wants to talk about food and drink in practice rooms and how you deal with it??

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-14-2015 20:45

    Well, no one would mistake me for a counterbalance to Ron, but I can try to make trouble.

    Let's start with clarifying our objective.  Why don't we want food or drink in the practice rooms?  Is it about the pianos, or is there an overall aesthetic?  Would the objections be the same if there was a table, positioned a safe distance away from piano, which actually got used?  What if garbage cans were outside the room, so that food waste didn't collect in rooms?  When you start trying to impose these restrictions, you end up having to differentiate between someone  taking a sip of  coffee from a take-out cup or a thermos.  A bite of a power bar that goes back in a coat pocket, or a salad from a styrafoam container.   The linger aroma of Chinese stir-fry or a liverwurst sandwich.  

    Is there a lounge area near the practice rooms  where people could go, without having to give up their space?  If something like that were available, there would be little justification for needing to eat in the rooms.  

    Don't make rules or post signs that can't be enforced, but if you can make a clear effort to demonstrate a willingness to  accommodate basic human needs, you can then afford to get genuinely medieval when you come across a violation of the 11th Commandment: Thou shalt not put your shit on pianos.  Take a name for 1st  offence.  2nd starts to incur genuine penalties, but enforcement should come from some authoritative office, not you, unless it would make you feel good.  

    Of course, you might also want to consider you protocols when you encounter a professor giving a lesson, or a class, accompanied by a coffee cup on the piano.  Air Horn?  Taser?  Other?

    ------------------------------
    David Skolnik
    Hastings-on-Hudson NY
    914-231-7565

    Original Message


  • 9.  RE: Who wants to talk about food and drink in practice rooms and how you deal with it??

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-15-2015 09:38
      |   view attached

    I think I had pretty good success using humor and timely intervention.  I started every school year by putting a “sign” on every practice room and classroom piano. The sign was a reminder to respect the piano by not putting anything (and I meant anything, except the sign, of course) on the piano. I tried to make the sign interesting, or funny, or even literary (I wrote a sonnet, for example). Students actually started looking forward to what I might put out there for them to read.  I followed that up with a higher degree of monitoring, i.e., for the first couple of weeks of the new school year I would check the practice rooms and if students were putting things on the pianos or eating, I would open the door and remind them to look at the sheet that I had put on the piano and wait while they removed whatever was on the piano.  I also tried to have two piano benches in every practice room, a butt bench and a book bench. Things didn’t change over night, but over a couple of years, students got the message and most (not all, of course) respected the pianos.  

     
    Some of the points that I tried to emphasize were 
    1. Each student owns a part of the piano because their family/personal tuition and taxes paid for the instruments (I worked for a state university)
    2. Even a piece of paper pulled across the top can have an effect. Ten years of pieces of paper, let alone books and instrument cases, will ruin the finish.
    3. The piano is not a table; it’s a musical instrument!
    4. Wash hands.
    5. Report problems.
     
    I considered installing shelves or protective pieces to go over the pianos, but there was the expense and the message would be counter-instructive. I’d be announcing that it was okay to use the piano as a table. 
     
    I’ve attached a file with some of my “epistles.” There’s also one that Alan McCoy sent me.  Check it out.
     
    Richard West
    ------------------------------
    Richard West
    Oro Valley AZ
    520-395-0916
    440richard@gmail.com

    Attachment(s)

    pdf
    Respect the Piano.pdf   133 KB 1 version
    Original Message


  • 10.  RE: Who wants to talk about food and drink in practice rooms and how you deal with it??

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-15-2015 10:54
    I agree with Richard et al about using persuasion and humor. I don't think command and control tactics work, and they are expensive and time-consuming, not to mention intrusive and likely to lead to a negative atmosphere, which could well backfire and lead to vandalism.

    The U-1 lid hinge problem is a real one. Students have the impression intuitively that it is safe to put something up there, but it doesn't take much of a soda spill to kill a set of bass strings - amazingly little. So some specific education about that is a good idea. If you want to retrofit something, a waterproof fabric cover would probably be the best idea. 

    The new U-1s have placed the hinge farther forward. I don't know if that helps keep spills far enough from the strings to make a difference. It might (in compensation for making me swear at it as it means my preferred hammer/tip arrangement is too short to clear - the only piano model I have where that is true).

    Regards,
    Fred Sturm
    "We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda




    Original Message


  • 11.  RE: Who wants to talk about food and drink in practice rooms and how you deal with it??

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-14-2015 23:19
    This is an important and challenging topic.
    We just had a very significant spill on a grand piano a little over a year ago, so it's pretty "fresh". I was able to restore this bridge damage, etc--pretty nicely on this - one of our best Steinway model Bs.

    We have had numerous other close calls & misc other things that have happened that have damaged our pianos.
    We also JUST received 23 brand new Yamaha U1 uprights for our practice rooms from a private donor earlier this year. We have discussed several options to address, in particular, the problem of people setting DRINKS right on the piano lids, which is a PERSISTENT problem for us. We are using signage prohibiting drinks (especially) which has helped some.
    With regard to uprights, we have discussed putting "TOPPERS" on the tops of the U1 upright as some nearby schools have done. I personally believe this is a good idea, and would help prevent actual spills from doing AS MUCH damage as it otherwise would. However, due to the cost, and personal decision of our director we have not tried these.
    We REALLY like the idea of permanently mounted shelves; one above each piano in each practice room. (Again, for uprights) The time to have this done is of course, during a remodel or new construction.
    We are planning on looking into an alternative to this, such as a type of shelf that is attached to the piano back posts somehow and is just above the lid of the pianos. Who knows if this will ever get done.

    Regarding both uprights & grands:

    Cameras could possibly help, but may not be an option for many--fake cameras?? POSSIBLY of some value--?
    Any real help with this issue needs to come from the administration of the school in my opinion. If this is is brought up at faculty meetings & orientation meetings, etc --and then followed up by the administration--there COULD possibly be a "culture of no drinks" successfully implemented. As techs we can & should do all we can to help, but at this point, I am not sure any methods or techniques could trump an administration that decides this is EXTREMELY important to integrate this into teaching music.
    Kevin

    Sent from my iPhone


    Original Message


  • 12.  RE: Who wants to talk about food and drink in practice rooms and how you deal with it??

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-15-2015 07:30

    If you say "no drinks" and then you spend money putting a visible protection against spills on the piano, you're sending a mixed message.

    I'm not clear what the 'shelves' are for.  For drinks? or for putting books'n things on someplace other than the piano? That's good.  In that vein, coat hooks are very useful and often lacking.

    CAMERAS!!  No one can be seriously entertaining this notion, real or faux.  We may disagree on many things, but I don't believe any of us would advocate for that level of intrusive enforcement... unless, of course, you could sell it as a 'value-added' feature, such as a personal security measure, or even better, an audio/visual record of ones practice session that one could review and learn from.  I like that one.  With a slight tweak to the system, it could also be used to help direct the order-in pizza.to the correct room.

    ------------------------------
    David Skolnik
    Hastings-on-Hudson NY
    914-231-7565

    Original Message


  • 13.  RE: Who wants to talk about food and drink in practice rooms and how you deal with it??

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-15-2015 08:31
    The main purpose for the toppers would be to protect the finish from scratches, etc. But perhaps the "mixed message" was our director's logic.
    My opinion is: you can't effectively use logic with students.
    Regarding the shelf idea, one of our professors saw these built in shelves in the practice rooms at some University out there and took pics. Our director really likes them--perhaps in the future since our rooms were already being remodeled at the time these shelves were discovered.

    I really like my idea of some type of shelf mounted on the piano and locked down/screwed down until tuning time. As they say, the devil is in the details. Don't see this being accomplished anytime really soon. But the idea is better than permanent shelves IMHO because our students are constantly MOVING THE PIANOS around in the practice rooms to suit their desires.
    Kevin

    Sent from my iPhone


    Original Message


  • 14.  RE: Who wants to talk about food and drink in practice rooms and how you deal with it??

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-15-2015 09:21

    Still don't quite understand the porpoise of the shelves.  Some sort of alternate surface in the room would, of course, be helpful, but don't see the point of 'attached' shelves.

    As for moving pianos around in the rooms, that's a whole nuther discussion.  Like, with a different subject line.

    ------------------------------
    David Skolnik
    Hastings-on-Hudson NY
    914-231-7565

    Original Message


  • 15.  RE: Who wants to talk about food and drink in practice rooms and how you deal with it??

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-15-2015 08:35

    Also

    - you HAVE to have 'buy-in' from the teachers.  If they demonstrate disregard for these restrictions, in their classes or lessons, or remain tacit when seeing the behavior among students, there is no hope of compliance.

    - depending upon the mode of practice room assignment, there is some means of tracking accountability.  If it's a room that's shared by a specific group of students, then the responsibility for the standard of upkeep of that room is shared, and there's a group incentive.  They know who's doing what.  If rooms are assigned in an on-demand basis, a student coming into a room that has been abused would have the self-interested responsibility to report it immediately, else they 'own' the abuse... i.e. they can't just say "it wasn't me... I found it this way".

    ------------------------------
    David Skolnik
    Hastings-on-Hudson NY
    914-231-7565

    Original Message


  • 16.  RE: Who wants to talk about food and drink in practice rooms and how you deal with it??

    Member
    Posted 12-15-2015 16:40

    Cameras, spiders, and lockdown are one approach. I find myself attracted to the flashing "Your speed is ..." roadway signs. You tell people what the speed limit is and you tell them how fast they are going. It is up to them to decide if they wish to alter their behavior to comply. Other than the piano technicians, I doubt anyone (including the Dean) know how much of an investment is tied up in a piano; it looks like a piece of furniture but is, in fact, a very expensive complex musical instrument. An approach where students and faculty come to fully appreciate that practice room pianos are $10k to $60k resources ($60k to $200k for performance instruments) available to enrich their musical education might have a more lasting impact. No student would ever unconsciously place food or drink on their friend's violin case, let alone instrument. This same mindset needs to be instilled into practice room users. Should the Dean not want to get involved in policing student's piano use behavior, you can remind him or her of the amount of time & effort he or she expends to attract contributions from patrons to enhance the school's reputation. A spilled drink in the right spot of a $90k Steinway B could mean their having to go back and start all over again convincing patrons to give more money to replace a carelessly damaged investment.

    ------------------------------
    John Ginter
    Plum Piano Restoration, Inc.
    La Grange TX
    832-722-3033

    Original Message


  • 17.  RE: Who wants to talk about food and drink in practice rooms and how you deal with it??

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-15-2015 19:07
    Coming at it from a different direction, if the existing pianos all look at least presentable all the time, that helps develop a mindset. If they are dirty and trashed looking, that develops another mindset. So I try to keep the pianos reasonably clean at all times, and also touch up any white wood from scratches and dings (can of black lacquer and a paint brush). This really changes people's attitudes.

    In our case, the students literally do pay for the pianos, through a course fee dedicated to pianos. It isn't cheap for them, raised last year to $8 per credit hour. If that or something sort of comparable is your situation, a poster about "Your course fees at work" can help get buy in to the notion of taking care of them.

    I think the best strategy, though, at least for those of us who are there most of the time (employees), is to be present, visible, and helpful and friendly. Take an interest in the students, especially the piano majors, ask them how their recital went, congratulate them, etc. Happily answer their questions, let them watch what you are doing. They become your best advocates. They won't let their fellow students cause more work for their friend, the piano technician. It's a matter of building up a culture of personal relationships and mutual benefits: they know if they tell me about a broken string, it will be fixed fast, they can count on me to open the locked room where they left their keys, etc., and in turn they are my eyes and ears.  
    Regards,
    Fred Sturm
    "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, but a hammer with which to shape it." Brecht




    Original Message


  • 18.  RE: Who wants to talk about food and drink in practice rooms and how you deal with it??

    Posted 12-15-2015 20:53
      |   view attached




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    2015_08_25_Before_and_After_Spill,_SFSU.pdf   331 KB 1 version
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  • 19.  RE: Who wants to talk about food and drink in practice rooms and how you deal with it??

    Posted 12-15-2015 20:53
      |   view attached
    Margie Williams
    pnotuner@pacbell.net

    "We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much for so long, with so little, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing." (Unknown)


    Original Message


  • 20.  RE: Who wants to talk about food and drink in practice rooms and how you deal with it??

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-15-2015 11:14

    You won't stop people from bringing drinks into the practice rooms.  So the first thing is to give people a place to put drinks that's not on the piano.  A small stand or shelf near the piano will do, ostensibly for placing books and things.  Plenty of signage about drinks not being allowed on the pianos or in the practice rooms at all and that students are liable for damage to the the piano as a result of spills. Students should sign an "agree" contract to that effect as part of the practice room use protocol.  If students are required to sign up for the practice rooms then you always have a record who is/was in there at any given time. Students should be required to report any damage that they find immediately. If they do that then it will become apparent who was responsible.  Word getting around about the cost of replacing a set of bass strings will do much for inspiring the students to take more care and if not then at least the repairs may get paid for.  

    ------------------------------
    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320

    Original Message


  • 21.  RE: Who wants to talk about food and drink in practice rooms and how you deal with it??

    Posted 12-16-2015 09:32

    The basic principle is that horizontal surfaces will always be convenient for holding objects, and objects in hand go to the nearest convenient surface.

    If you can make piano surfaces not horizontal and provide convenient horizontal surfaces at a safe distance, the problem will be solved.

    Rules will eventually fail, but no one needs to be told to walk on the floor, not the wall.

    ------------------------------
    Ed Sutton
    ed440@me.com
    704-536-7926

    Original Message


  • 22.  RE: Who wants to talk about food and drink in practice rooms and how you deal with it??

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-16-2015 17:13
    I've enjoyed reading all this, and have an anecdote involving how bad this issue can actually get--probably also says something about my strange little corner of the world here on the far northern CA coast.
    Have had signs, etc. on pianos for a long time, and like Fred S., have always cultivated a good relationship with a handful of students each year who have willingly become my eyes and ears.
    Some years ago, before key cards and the security mechanism that goes along with them became the norm here, one late afternoon after classes were over I was in a hallway with practice cubicles on both sides and smelled food--hot food.  I looked in the little window of one of them, and there was a scruffy looking drifter of the type the area seems attract for some reason, sterno type hot plate blazing away and steam billowing from the top of a small saucepan on top of it--all sitting on top of the Hamilton studio vertical in there. The cubicle was full of steam, and the window to the outside across from the door was fogged up.  Despite not being a student, but had somehow found his way to the practice room area of that building and set up camp for the night--unfolding and firing up his portable kitchen in the process.  I was so startled by the sheer nerve of it all I couldn't even speak for moment.  Eventually I came to and had my rant about the incredible inappropriateness of it etc., etc.  No detectable damage to the interior of the piano, though he managed to do something to the finish on top that utterly ruined it.  Whenever I see that piano, I think fondly of that evening...
    Greg Granoff
    Humboldt State U.



    Original Message


  • 23.  RE: Who wants to talk about food and drink in practice rooms and how you deal with it??

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-16-2015 17:30
    Gary,
    Yes, that is definitely an issue. I tend to forget the days before we enclosed the practice area in key card accessed doors - not perfect, but it does tend to prevent street people from setting up residence (which had happened on a couple occasions). 

    We are in the process of doing that to the whole building, with most doors key card and alarmed (if propped open for more than X seconds) all the time, and with card access only to a very limited number of people. (Free exit, controlled entrance). A couple select doors will be unlocked 8 am to 9 pm or so, with key card access to all faculty and students of the college after that. Cost was in the $100K range, covered by the provost's office after some considerable lobbying by our wonderful dean. There had been several "uncomfortable incidents" on weekends, when we offer a "music prep school" for kids 3 - 12. The potential liability got them to be proactive instead of reactive for a change.

    It's one thing when you are dealing with behavior of music department students, another entirely when access is expanded. The building is pretty public, as it houses performance spaces including a 2000 seat theater run as a separate entity, so there are limits to what can be done, but this seems like it will be a good compromise.
    Regards,
    Fred Sturm
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." Twain




    Original Message


  • 24.  RE: Who wants to talk about food and drink in practice rooms and how you deal with it??

    Posted 12-15-2015 20:53
    Hello Michelle and Everybody,

    Ah, this is a subject near and dear to my heart; I believe it is the hardest part of my job. Last spring we had two spills into the treble area of 2 grands pianos, a Baldwin F and a Steinway M. At SFSU it's very difficult (OK, actually impossible) to control who has access to the practice rooms and even some of the class rooms, as it is an open campus. We don't even have practice room monitors right now, nor would I expect a fellow student to be able to adequately police what goes on in the practice rooms. As was noted in another post, that's more than a full-time job.

    For any upright that has a hinge down the middle of the top of the piano, please, I beg you, don't delay acquiring a cover (even if it's just a piece of plywood with a groove routed out for the hinge that protrudes) for the tops of these new pianos. It's not a question of if, but when, some dope will spill their coffee into the piano and nail the dampers and bass strings. It's worth a minor cost in materials to prevent hundreds or thousands of dollars in damages. Let's face it, people are going to set drinks on the tops of pianos, even with snappy signs warning them not to. I believe you can purchase a cover for the top of a U1.

    I have found that using snarky humor (ala the posting by Ron Nossaman regarding exploding food/drink and body parts. I like it!) was pretty well-received, although I still have to go terrorize the students occasionally when one of the nincompoops has placed a drink right in front of or on the sign. My boss loved them, and I got positive feedback from the students and the faculty.

    I'm thinking that I'll base a sign on the newest Star Wars movie coming out this month, something about the force or whatever new catch-phrase appears in the dialogue. Finding a way to reach the students via popular culture should also be effective.

    I will post to the list the signs I made up separately; please feel free to plagiarize, alter or otherwise customize to suit. I contacted the Home Office a few weeks ago and asked if they wanted to make use of them, but I have not heard anything just yet. Kathy said the most likely spot for them would be in the business aids section.

    I think it would be useful to have a bunch of these sorts of signs ready-made for people to use as needed. Maybe send some ideas to the Home Office, let them turn them into professional looking signs.

    One of the signs also deals with chewing gum, of which we had an epidemic a year or two ago.

    Margie Williams
    pnotuner@pacbell.net

    "We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much for so long, with so little, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing." (Unknown)


    Original Message


  • 25.  RE: Who wants to talk about food and drink in practice rooms and how you deal with it??

    Member
    Posted 12-17-2015 09:29

      Practice rooms are not the only place food and drinks show up. I have removed various food items from piano such as fried oysters, cookies, dog treats, candy bar wrappers etc.

     Also when you see red on the soundboard or hammer felt it is a sure sign of spilt wine. 

     As for the school pianos I suggest getting some of those pigeon barrier strips and putting them on any horizontal surface. You know those thingies that look like nails.

     If your institution has a flush budget perhaps you can hire some TSA types to body scan and machine scan

    anyone coming into the practice areas. All confiscated food and drink will be put out at the end of the day in the lobby for a free feed.

    ------------------------------
    James Kelly
    Pawleys Island SC
    843-325-4357

    Original Message


  • 26.  RE: Who wants to talk about food and drink in practice rooms and how you deal with it??

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-17-2015 12:45

    Well you haven't lived until you've removed used condoms from practice room pianos!! Why is that hammer sticking? Look and pull out your 8" tweezers, and find the trash can. Here at Sonoma State University we have also Tech High, a high school, on campus. Come to find out that the kids were using the practice rooms....All practice room are now locked and you have to be a music/theater arts major to get a key.

    As to protecting pianos...After measuring the lids of the 18 vertical pianos in the piano lab, I went to Tap Plastics. Had the pieces cut to fit, and got a bag of clear rubber buttons that I put on the bottom of the Plexiglas sheets to protect the piano finish. This worked very well to alleviate all the small scratches produced from binders, books and papers. 

    I believe that for lids with the hinge down the middle I used two sheets, and then a narrow strip (2") which I laid on top of the 2 flat pieces which were  on either side of the hinge. I glued this narrow strip to the 2 flat pieces.

     

    ------------------------------
    Michael Hagen
    Rohnert Park CA
    707-664-9857

    Original Message


  • 27.  RE: Who wants to talk about food and drink in practice rooms and how you deal with it??

    Posted 12-15-2015 20:53
      |   view attached




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    2015_09_03_SFSU_Gum Control.pdf   33 KB 1 version
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