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reselling the piano service

  • 1.  reselling the piano service

    Posted 12-11-2005 01:51
    From "BRETT GLASS" <bgpianoman@email.com>
    
    Hello Everyone ,  I recently ran into a situation where I was asked if I
    could lower my price so that it could be marked up . I was tuning for a
    concert and the venue manager had been using another tuner for a long
    time that has left the area . They had a price set up that had been in
    place a long time (years) . And had not been increased . In fact the
    price for in home tunings in this area was higher . And had been for over
    four years . Price is not my question .
    
    After I explained how others were marking up my work , and what I was
    charging them he seemed ok with it . I live in an area where I do alot of
    concert work . In fact this promoter has me set up to tune two more times
    before the first of the year . But we got into a discussion about follow
    ups after the rehearsal . Most of the time there is not much work needed
    except when you run into that picky pianist . Or the venue is outside .
    Includes more than one piano , temperature change etc. . But time is
    money . Why should I set around . Sometimes I have to wait hours before I
    can do the follow up . Some want it right before doors open .  Anyway
    what is the most accepted practice . Charge say 1/2 of the original fee
    1/3 or charge by the hour ? For the easy follow up I've gone with 1/2 .
    To some that might seem like a lot but I'm actually losing money . Had I
    been able to schedule two in home tunings . I'd have come out ahead .
    This time of year it would be no problem . I have no openings until after
    Christmas . When these concerts come up they tend to cost me money .
    Taking up an afternoon because I don't know how or when I can set other
    appointments . I'd like to just tell them what I charge per hour . I
    don't know how many times I've got to the location only to find the piano
    is not ready . Or the stage crew is working . Or I'm half way done and
    they want to move the Piano .
    
    Also what do most of you do for professional accounts . Do you discount ?
    I don't . The only time I mark down my work is when I feel like it. Say a
    church piano needs more work than they can afford. Or the occasional
    family that might go without a piano if the cost for repairs is more than
    they can afford . I only discount the tuning service for floor tunings at
    dealers . I know that I'm going to get customers in return for that
    work . Do any of you have any experience with your work being marked up
    and resold say by a Resort  or concert hall ect.?  I do charge more for a
    concert tuning but not very much more . Only about 10% more . So If they
    turn around and mark that up what would be a normal markup . Say 25 % ? 
    I know that this is not really my problem . I'm just curious what others
    may have seen or heard being done .One of the Piano rental companys
    that I tune for marks up my tunings 25 % .
    
    I just don't feel I should make less so they can make more . Eventhough I
    do tune for them more often .
    
    Maybe I'm looking at it all wrong . ???
    
    Thanks for your input in advance , and have a great Christmas season !
    
    Brett Glass
    
    A Sharp Piano Service Maui
    
    -- 
    ___________________________________________________
    Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.mail.com/
    


  • 2.  reselling the piano service

    Posted 12-11-2005 05:56
    From Kent Swafford <kswafford@earthlink.net>
    
    Hi Brett,
    
    It was below zero here in Kansas City this week with almost a foot of  
    snow. Just to let you know what you are missing...
    
    My relevant experience has been with a venue that does tunings that  
    are required by their contracts with the artists. A tuning is a  
    tuning, even if the last tuning was just a few hours ago. So I charge  
    full price for the rehearsal tuning, and full price for the "touch  
    up". The touch up normally requires a separate trip and lots of  
    waiting, so my actual time spent isn't that different between the  
    two. Once this year, they even changed pianos between the rehearsal  
    and the concert, so I was glad that I have a practice of charging  
    full price for the "touch up".
    
    I am familiar with the practice of providing tunings with a rental  
    piano, but I'm not sure that tuning income should be shared by the  
    piano renter. Charge what you need to charge and if someone can still  
    mark up your tunings, more power to them, but if they can do that it  
    may suggest that our fees our too low.
    
    
    Kent
    
    
    On Dec 11, 2005, at 2:50 AM, BRETT GLASS wrote:
    
    > Hello Everyone ,  I recently ran into a situation where I was asked  
    > if I could lower my price so that it could be marked up . I was  
    > tuning for a concert and the venue manager had been using another  
    > tuner for a long time that has left the area . They had a price set  
    > up that had been in place a long time (years) . And had not been  
    > increased . In fact the price for in home tunings in this area was  
    > higher . And had been for over four years . Price is not my question .
    >
    > After I explained how others were marking up my work , and what I  
    > was charging them he seemed ok with it . I live in an area where I  
    > do alot of concert work . In fact this promoter has me set up to  
    > tune two more times before the first of the year . But we got into  
    > a discussion about follow ups after the rehearsal . Most of the  
    > time there is not much work needed except when you run into that  
    > picky pianist . Or the venue is outside . Includes more than one  
    > piano , temperature change etc. . But time is money . Why should I  
    > set around . Sometimes I have to wait hours before I can do the  
    > follow up . Some want it right before doors open .  Anyway what is  
    > the most accepted practice . Charge say 1/2 of the original fee 1/3  
    > or charge by the hour ? For the easy follow up I've gone with 1/2 .  
    > To some that might seem like a lot but I'm actually losing money .  
    > Had I been able to schedule two in home tunings . I'd have come out  
    > ahead . This time of year it would be no problem . I have no  
    > openings until after Christmas . When these concerts come up they  
    > tend to cost me money . Taking up an afternoon because I don't know  
    > how or when I can set other appointments . I'd like to just tell  
    > them what I charge per hour . I don't know how many times I've got  
    > to the location only to find the piano is not ready . Or the stage  
    > crew is working . Or I'm half way done and they want to move the  
    > Piano .
    >
    > Also what do most of you do for professional accounts . Do you  
    > discount ? I don't . The only time I mark down my work is when I  
    > feel like it. Say a church piano needs more work than they can  
    > afford. Or the occasional family that might go without a piano if  
    > the cost for repairs is more than they can afford . I only discount  
    > the tuning service for floor tunings at dealers . I know that I'm  
    > going to get customers in return for that work . Do any of you have  
    > any experience with your work being marked up and resold say by a  
    > Resort  or concert hall ect.?  I do charge more for a concert  
    > tuning but not very much more . Only about 10% more . So If they  
    > turn around and mark that up what would be a normal markup . Say 25  
    > % ?  I know that this is not really my problem . I'm just curious  
    > what others may have seen or heard being done .One of the Piano  
    > rental companys that I tune for marks up my tunings 25 % .
    >
    > I just don't feel I should make less so they can make more .  
    > Eventhough I do tune for them more often .
    >
    > Maybe I'm looking at it all wrong . ???
    >
    > Thanks for your input in advance , and have a great Christmas season !
    >
    > Brett Glass
    >
    > A Sharp Piano Service Maui
    >
    >
    > --
    > ___________________________________________________
    > Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.mail.com/
    


  • 3.  reselling the piano service

    Posted 12-12-2005 16:01
    From Ron Nossaman <rnossaman@cox.net>
    
    > It was below zero here in Kansas City this week with almost a foot of 
    > snow. Just to let you know what you are missing...
    > -----------------------------------------
    > 
    > Kent
    
    
    But it's not all bad, depending on how you look at it. My 
    unhumidified shop furnace got the humidity down low enough out there 
    last week for me to rib a soundboard panel a couple of days ago 
    without ever plugging in my drying box. Had all the time I wanted to 
    do it...
    
    Ron N
    


  • 4.  reselling the piano service

    Posted 12-12-2005 16:22
    From "Farrell" <mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com>
    
    Let's see a picture of your dried-up hands. How many band-aids on all the 
    cracks, splits, etc. Nasty little buggers hurt!
    
    Terry Farrell
    
    


  • 5.  reselling the piano service

    Posted 12-12-2005 17:09
      |   view attached
    From Ron Nossaman <rnossaman@cox.net>
    
    > Let's see a picture of your dried-up hands. How many band-aids on all 
    > the cracks, splits, etc. Nasty little buggers hurt!
    > 
    > Terry Farrell
    
    
    Good call. Band-aids aren't up to it though. I use masking tape. 
    Even resorted to CA once in a pinch. Staples might work too, but I 
    haven't gotten quite that desperate yet.
    
    Ron N
    


  • 6.  reselling the piano service

    Posted 12-12-2005 19:58
    From "Cy Shuster" <741662027@theshusters.org>
    
    The "liquid bandage" products work great for those finger cracks:
    http://www.drugstore.com/qxp13279_333181_sespider/new_skin/antiseptic_liquid_bandage.htm
    
    --Cy--
    
    


  • 7.  reselling the piano service-skin cracks, prevention

    Posted 12-12-2005 20:40
    From Steve Borgstrom <orchman@comcast.net>
    
    My girlfriend runs a tanning salon. Those places sell a lot of  
    lotions, especially moisturizers. One that I use very successfully is:
    
    Hempz herbal moisturizer
    Supre? Inc, 15770 N. Dallas Pkwy
    Suite 700
    Dallas, TX 75248
    
    Hempz has a fragrance. Neither manly nor womanly, just a nice aroma.  
    It is THC free.
    
    Off the shelf at Walgreen's or WalMart is:
    
    Eucerin Plus Intensive Care Lotion
    
    It is fragrance free.
    
    My hands used to look worse than Ron's. Not after the lotion!!
    
    Both are very greaseless after rubbing in and really do a job to  
    prevent the cuts. Gotta use it daily, couple times a day.
    
    
    On Dec 12, 2005, at 6:08 PM, Ron Nossaman wrote:
    
    >
    >> Let's see a picture of your dried-up hands. How many band-aids on  
    >> all the cracks, splits, etc. Nasty little buggers hurt!
    >> Terry Farrell
    >
    >
    > Good call. Band-aids aren't up to it though. I use masking tape.  
    > Even resorted to CA once in a pinch. Staples might work too, but I  
    > haven't gotten quite that desperate yet.
    >
    > Ron N
    > <Winter fingers.jpg>
    


  • 8.  reselling the piano service-skin cracks, prevention

    Posted 12-12-2005 21:46
    From Ron Nossaman <rnossaman@cox.net>
    
    > My girlfriend runs a tanning salon. Those places sell a lot of  lotions, 
    > especially moisturizers. One that I use very successfully is:
    > 
    > Hempz herbal moisturizer
    > Supre? Inc, 15770 N. Dallas Pkwy
    > Suite 700
    > Dallas, TX 75248
    > 
    > Hempz has a fragrance. Neither manly nor womanly, just a nice aroma.  It 
    > is THC free.
    > 
    > Off the shelf at Walgreen's or WalMart is:
    > 
    > Eucerin Plus Intensive Care Lotion
    > 
    > It is fragrance free.
    > 
    > My hands used to look worse than Ron's. Not after the lotion!!
    > 
    > Both are very greaseless after rubbing in and really do a job to  
    > prevent the cuts. Gotta use it daily, couple times a day.
    
    
    Best I've found...
    
    What would you like for lunch? How do hamburgers sound? You bet! 
    I'll make 'em.
    
    If you want the definitive "save your epidermis moisturizer", this 
    is the stuph. You can feel yourself making friends with each patty, 
    before the grill even enters the process. Feels so good! What else 
    is more compatible with meat then meat? I've tried all the 
    aforementioned antidotes, and they all fell short of just wallowing 
    in hamburger on the short term schedule. Obviously (considering the 
    state of my phalangeal epidermis), I'm behind the curve, and need to 
    eat more beef on a bun. Yea, I know. It's my own fault.
    
    Meanwhile, masking tape rules.
    
    I suppose it's a matter of perspective.
    
    Ron N
    


  • 9.  reselling the piano service-skin cracks, prevention

    Posted 12-12-2005 22:15
    From "Norm Barrett" <barr8345@bellsouth.net>
    
    The ezxema (spelling?) on my fingers was bad enough that I was turned down 
    for donating blood. Me dermatologist said it was incurable but advised 
    keeping the fingers moisturized. His suggestion was using udder cream and 
    putting on rubber gloves at bedtime. It worked.
    Norm Barrett
    Memphis Chatpre PTG
    
    


  • 10.  reselling the piano service-skin cracks, prevention

    Posted 12-13-2005 16:49
    From gordon stelter <lclgcnp@yahoo.com>
    
    I use a  groovy vegan, perfume free hand cream from
    the health food mart ( "Jason" brand, I think ) and
    glob it all over my hands before tucking them into a 
    cheap brown pair of cotton gloves at bedtime. Very
    comfy.
         Thump
    
    
    
    --- Norm Barrett <barr8345@bellsouth.net> wrote:
    
    > The ezxema (spelling?) on my fingers was bad enough
    > that I was turned down 
    > for donating blood. Me dermatologist said it was
    > incurable but advised 
    > keeping the fingers moisturized. His suggestion was
    > using udder cream and 
    > putting on rubber gloves at bedtime. It worked.
    > Norm Barrett
    > Memphis Chatpre PTG
    > 
    > 


  • 11.  reselling the piano service

    Posted 12-11-2005 06:18
    From "Brad Smith, RPT" <staff@smithpiano.com>
    
    Brett,
    
    You can answer many of these questions by starting with a different perspective of the value of your
    time.
    When you realize that it is your priceless time for sale, you will begin to defend it more now,
    while you are still young and good-looking.
    
    OPPORTUNITY COST
    On a given day, you have the opportunity of doing 4-6 in home tuning appointments for an average of
    your tuning fee plus a pitch raise.
    Whatever else you decide to do, for whatever reason, will cost you exactly that amount in lost
    opportunity for income.
    Anything that pulls you away from that opportunity, ought to pay you accordingly, or be worth the
    sacrifice of that loss.
    Unfortunately, you won't really feel the loss, until you are about to retire with nothing to show
    for the years of giving away your time.
    
    SELLING YOUR TIME
    You can view the value of your time in a variety of ways.
    Most technicians have the problem of valuing their work based upon the actual physical things
    performed.  HUGE mistake.
    It's as if we exist in a vacuum, with no expense incurred for the readiness, tools, knowledge,
    vehicle overhead, and experience required
    to be able to do the 'physical thing' that we eventually charge money for.
    
    NICE WORK IF YOU CAN GET IT
    I used to play piano at the Ritz hotel in Boston years ago.  A janitor once complained about my
    hourly rate for piano playing.
    I replied that although my rate for piano playing was higher than a janitor, the difference was that
    it took 20 years of practice and daily
    skill maintenance, in order to be able to earn that higher hourly rate.  A working piano technician
    is very similar.
    
    EVERYTHING IS NEGOTIABLE
    How do other professionals value their expertise and time?
    Look in your checkbook, you will find that you have paid some professional person far more than the
    physical work that they performed.
    You have paid for their time, knowledge, experience, hand skill, industry contacts, patience,
    willingness to teach you, etc.
    Plus parts, mileage, labor, insurance, and whatever else they had to do to be able to provide you
    that service.
    
    PERCEPTION OF VALUE
    The sooner you remove the words "tuning fee" and "going rate" from your vocabulary, the sooner you
    will begin to be paid closer to your real value.
    (I'll spare you my speech about 'tuning fee', but in short...do you bring only a tuning hammer to an
    appointment?
    How often do you only just tune a piano? I never do, so I don't quote a tuning fee.   I quote for my
    service, based on what I usually encounter given the
    time passed since the last service call.  In my area, that means pitch raise, tune, screws, lube,
    misc regulation and voicing as time permits.)
    
    The busier you get as a technician, the more you can begin to charge for the value of your time,
    based on YOUR perspective.
    As an in-demand concert technician, you are likely in that position already.
    
    You have to realize the value of what you do; the cost of giving away your future, and then bring
    the future into your present negotiations.
    If you decide that giving away this time is worth it for other reasons, so be it.  But, don't be
    pressured by convention or 'the going rate', or 'what other techs do', etc.
    If you are not in a strong enough position to negotiate hard on this, at least begin to document the
    real cost to your business.
    It will eventually work its way into your thought process and as you negotiate things, you will get
    stronger about it.
    
    We all have this issue of wanting to help people, and the emotional mind rules over the logical
    business mind.  Both are needed, but ultimately
    you won't be able to really help people unless you are being paid for what you do.
    
    
    Best regards,
    Brad Smith, RPT
    www.SmithPiano.com
    || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| ||
    


  • 12.  reselling the piano service

    Posted 12-11-2005 08:27
    From "Barbara Richmond" <piano57@insightbb.com>
    
    Hi Brett,
    
    I tune regularly in a big auditorium.  I always charge my full fee for both the initial tuning and touch-up (even if I hardly have to do anything--I'm there).  If I have to take care of a problem that I don't consider normal concert prep, I bill that separately.   I also find out what time I need to be back for the touch-up.  I'm not always interested in doing other work in-between, because the piano is troublesome and takes a lot of energy--so I just charge more for the work I do there.  :-)   I have no idea what the auditorium charges for my work, but they always pay me.  My situation may be unique(?) because I was hired to turn around a bad piano situation. 
      
    As far as tuning conditions go--well, I'm glad I have an Accutuner, because sometimes the stage is so noisy I rely <heavily> on it.  I have relaxed a lot since I started working there.  Though I have done my best to educate the tech staff about what will help me give good results (and will continue to remind them), I just go in and do the best I can.  When conditions are really bad, I <politely> inform them my take on the situation, either on the spot or with a follow up memo.  The memo goes to the stage manager, the technical director and the auditorium manager.  I work hard at communicating with them, though occasionally I feel like I'm yelling into a great abyss...
    
    
    Hope this is helpful.
    
    Barbara Richmond, RPT
    
    
      


  • 13.  reselling the piano service

    Posted 12-12-2005 17:12
    From Erwinspiano@aol.com
    
    I love that when it happens. Real quality assurance & control  happens under 
    these circumstances Unless course you were........snoozing
     Dale
    
    But it's  not all bad, depending on how you look at it. My 
    unhumidified shop furnace  got the humidity down low enough out there 
    last week for me to rib a  soundboard panel a couple of days ago 
    without ever plugging in my drying  box. Had all the time I wanted to 
    do it...
    
    Ron  N
    
    
     
    


  • 14.  reselling the piano service

    Posted 12-12-2005 18:42
    From "Farrell" <mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com>
    
    And imagine all those boards that were ribbed in central and east North America before AC in July - no doubt every one went together under the strictest controlled ideal environmental conditions.
    
    Right?
    
    In my shop, even in the summer (Florida - ultra-high humidity), when I run my AC unit in my shop I can run the RH in my shop down to about 35% RH. I have monitored sample spruce pieces that were dried down to 6% MC that were exposed to the shop environnment - in 24 hours the MC only goes up to about 6.5%. So even if I take 8 hours to rib a board, I am able to keep panel MC at a very constant level.
    
    It just takes monitoring and sampling to get a real good feel for your working conditions. I recommend it highly.
    
    Terry Farrell