PianoTech Archive

From J Patrick Draine <draine@comcast.net>

List,
We just had some heating system & plumbing work done at our home. Now, 
the guys we chose for the jobs were much more professional and skilled 
than the ones who we have previously used. It's not surprising that 
they expect to be well compensated for work well done. But ....
$175.00 per hour, Master Plumber
$ 85.00 per hour, #2 guy (presumably Journeyman plumber, quite young)
Using "cheeper" contractors in the past only lead to the problems that 
these guys had to fix.
So, $6K later, one reflects ... perhaps it's time to adjust my own 
rates (or tune more pianos).

Meanwhile, zillions of jobs (software, banking, customer service) are 
going overseas thanks to this cool internet technology I'm enjoying at 
this very moment, and considerable numbers of previously well employed 
past customers are downsizing their employment expectations.

Hoping for a Happy New Year,
Patrick

From Clyde Hollinger <cedel@supernet.com>

Sir Pat,

When was the last time you adjusted your rates?  I am a strong supporter
of making smaller annual changes rather than larger less frequent ones.
You make more money that way.  I suppose it is time for me to check what
local skilled labor is charging.  I did that several years ago.

The garage door repairman was here this week.  That company charges $41.00
to come to the house plus $46.00/hour for labor.  My service call isn't
that high, but my hourly rate is considerably higher.

Regards,
Clyde

J Patrick Draine wrote:

> List,
> We just had some heating system & plumbing work done at our home. Now,
> the guys we chose for the jobs were much more professional and skilled
> than the ones who we have previously used. It's not surprising that
> they expect to be well compensated for work well done. But ....
> $175.00 per hour, Master Plumber
> $ 85.00 per hour, #2 guy (presumably Journeyman plumber, quite young)
> Using "cheeper" contractors in the past only lead to the problems that
> these guys had to fix.
> So, $6K later, one reflects ... perhaps it's time to adjust my own
> rates (or tune more pianos).

From "Kuang Wang" <wang@datanaut.com>

Maybe one day some company will start restore pianos overseas where
qualified labors are available.  It really doesn't cost much to ship
pianos in a container. Two way trip shouldn't cost more than a grand and
labor won't cost you more than $500 per piano.

Here in the US it costs at least $5k to fully restore a piano because of
the labor cost (sometimes a lot more).  I can see problems with quality
control and customer confidence.  But if you only restore your own 20
Steinways and M&H you will only have quality control problem.

Kuang



                                                

					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
                                                

                                                    
                                                        
                                                        Original Message
                                                
                                                Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On
Behalf Of J Patrick Draine
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2003 5:36 PM
To: Pianotech
Subject: comparative labor rates ...

List,
We just had some heating system & plumbing work done at our home. Now, 
the guys we chose for the jobs were much more professional and skilled 
than the ones who we have previously used. It's not surprising that 
they expect to be well compensated for work well done. But ....
$175.00 per hour, Master Plumber
$ 85.00 per hour, #2 guy (presumably Journeyman plumber, quite young)
Using "cheeper" contractors in the past only lead to the problems that 
these guys had to fix.
So, $6K later, one reflects ... perhaps it's time to adjust my own 
rates (or tune more pianos).

Meanwhile, zillions of jobs (software, banking, customer service) are 
going overseas thanks to this cool internet technology I'm enjoying at 
this very moment, and considerable numbers of previously well employed 
past customers are downsizing their employment expectations.

Hoping for a Happy New Year,
Patrick

_______________________________________________
pianotech list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech

From "Isaac sur Noos" <oleg-i@noos.fr>

It is yet quite often that some French shops send their intensive
rebuilding jobs to be made in Poland.

Best Regards.

Isaac OLEG


------------------------------------
Isaac OLEG
accordeur - reparateur - concert
oleg-i@noos.fr
19 rue Jules Ferry
94400 VITRY sur SEINE
tel: 033 01 47 18 06 98
fax: 33 01 47 18 06 90
mobile: 033 06 60 42 58 77
------------------------------------


> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : pianotech-bounces@ptg.org
> [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]De la
> part de Kuang Wang
> Envoye : dimanche 21 decembre 2003 00:28
> A : 'Pianotech'
> Objet : RE: comparative labor rates ...
>
>
> Maybe one day some company will start restore pianos overseas where
> qualified labors are available.  It really doesn't cost much to ship
> pianos in a container. Two way trip shouldn't cost more
> than a grand and
> labor won't cost you more than $500 per piano.
>
> Here in the US it costs at least $5k to fully restore a
> piano because of
> the labor cost (sometimes a lot more).  I can see problems
> with quality
> control and customer confidence.  But if you only restore
> your own 20
> Steinways and M&H you will only have quality control problem.
>
> Kuang
>
> 

                                                

					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
                                                

                                                    
                                                        
                                                        Original Message
                                                
                                                Original Message-----
> From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org
> [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On
> Behalf Of J Patrick Draine
> Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2003 5:36 PM
> To: Pianotech
> Subject: comparative labor rates ...
>
> List,
> We just had some heating system & plumbing work done at our
> home. Now,
> the guys we chose for the jobs were much more professional
> and skilled
> than the ones who we have previously used. It's not surprising that
> they expect to be well compensated for work well done. But ....
> $175.00 per hour, Master Plumber
> $ 85.00 per hour, #2 guy (presumably Journeyman plumber,
> quite young)
> Using "cheeper" contractors in the past only lead to the
> problems that
> these guys had to fix.
> So, $6K later, one reflects ... perhaps it's time to adjust my own
> rates (or tune more pianos).
>
> Meanwhile, zillions of jobs (software, banking, customer
> service) are
> going overseas thanks to this cool internet technology I'm
> enjoying at
> this very moment, and considerable numbers of previously
> well employed
> past customers are downsizing their employment expectations.
>
> Hoping for a Happy New Year,
> Patrick
>
> _______________________________________________
> pianotech list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> pianotech list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech
>

From antares <antares@euronet.nl>

Why not send them to Wornerveer in Holland?   (; >))


friendly greetings
from
Andr? Oorebeek
Amsterdam -
The Netherlands

0031-20-6237357
06-54325114
0031-75-6226878

From Richard Brekne <Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no>

Grin.... Merry Christmas Andre !

antares wrote:
> 
> Why not send them to Wornerveer in Holland?   (; >))
> 
> friendly greetings
> from
> Andr? Oorebeek
> 

Cheers RicB


-- 
Richard Brekne
RPT, N.P.T.F.
UiB, Bergen, Norway
mailto:rbrekne@broadpark.no
http://home.broadpark.no/~rbrekne/ricmain.html
http://www.hf.uib.no/grieg/personer/cv_RB.html

From antares <antares@euronet.nl>

On 21-dec-03, at 15:50, Richard Brekne wrote:

> Grin.... Merry Christmas Andre !
>
> antares wrote:
>>
>> Why not send them to Wornerveer in Holland?   (; >))
>>
>> friendly greetings
>> from
>> Andr? Oorebeek
>>
>
> Cheers RicB



And I say to all of you :

enjoy your cozy free time in peace and happiness.

friendly greetings
from
Andr? Oorebeek
Amsterdam -
The Netherlands

0031-20-6237357
06-54325114
0031-75-6226878

From "Phil Bondi" <phil@philbondi.com>

Patrick, I believe we've visited this subject in the past, with
interesting results:

Some thought their rates were just fine..others thought better to
adjust theirs.

Is it fair to compare plumbing and piano work? I say yes.

-Phil Bondi(FL) 
phil@philbondi.com 

From "David M. Porritt" <dm.porritt@verizon.net>

Phil:

I too think it is fair to compare piano work and plumbing.  However, if money is tight you can postpone the piano tuning, but the leaky pipe will necessitate a plumber.

dave


__________________________________________
David M. Porritt, RPT
Meadows School of the Arts
Southern Methodist University
Dallas, TX 75275




                                                

					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
                                                

                                                    
                                                        
                                                        Original Message
                                                
                                                 Original message ---------------------------------------->
From: Phil Bondi <phil@philbondi.com>
To: 'Pianotech' <pianotech@ptg.org>
Received: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 19:13:26 -0500
Subject: RE: comparative labor rates ...

>Patrick, I believe we've visited this subject in the past, with
>interesting results:

>Some thought their rates were just fine..others thought better to
>adjust theirs.

>Is it fair to compare plumbing and piano work? I say yes.

>-Phil Bondi(FL) 
>phil@philbondi.com 





>_______________________________________________
>pianotech list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech

From Nichols <nicho@zianet.com>

At 07:13 PM 12/20/2003 -0500, you wrote:



>Is it fair to compare plumbing and piano work? I say yes.
>
>-Phil Bondi(FL)
>phil@philbondi.com

We've heard it before, but I'm gonna repeat it....

The plumber finished writing his invoice and handed it to the customer.
"Holy crap!" the customer exclaimed. "I don't make this much, and I'm a 
DOCTOR!"

"Yeah," the plumber said, "I didn't make that much when I was a doctor, 
either."





We may not make as much as plumbers, but at least we can chew our fingernails!


Later,
Guy

From Dave Davis <davistunes@yahoo.com>

--- Clyde Hollinger <cedel@supernet.com> wrote:
> The garage door repairman was here this week.  That
> company charges...(snip)...  My
> service call isn't
> that high, but my hourly rate is considerably
> higher.

Clyde, 
  So what you are saying is your rate is higher, but
their work is higher?   (Ba-dum-dump)  :-).

Dave Davis

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
http://photos.yahoo.com/

From JIMRPT@aol.com

In a message dated 12/20/03 7:14:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
phil@philbondi.com writes:

<< Is it fair to compare plumbing and piano work? I say yes. >>
Hey Y'all...watch my lips I am only gonna say this once! :-)
That only thing to compare between piano tuning and any other occupation is 
the dollars that change hands. As for plumbers vs piano tuners...ain't nothin 
to compare. The plumber has to be licensed and attend apprentice training, work 
as a journeyman and then, perhaps, becomes a master plumber. A plumber's 
stock in trade runs to the several thousands of dollars and he must take most of 
it with him on each service call...does a tuners basic training and or 
supplies/equipment cost that much??? Does a tuner need several thousands of dollars of 
tools/inventory sitting in the driveway before he starts work??? Is a tuner 
on call 24 hours a day..even in an emergency?  If a tuner doesn't show up for 
an appointment is there a chance of 'real', as opposed to artistic, problems???
  
 A qualified/licensed plumber sitting in the driveway represents a 
considerably higher investment than does a piano tuner (in most cases) sitting in the 
driveway.....

 Stop comparing yourself with other professions and charge what you think you 
are worth...if you do this then you will be happy and your customers who are 
willing to meet your price will be happy....if you starve to death you are 
charging too much and if your appointments are too many too book/keep you ain't 
charging enough...this without respect to what a plumber makes, or a computer 
repairman or...well you get the drift.

Merry Christmas!! :-)
Jim Bryant (FL)       

From Clyde Hollinger <cedel@supernet.com>

Jim,

Actually, it appears to me you are saying two things.  (1)  Charge what you think you are
worth, and (2) charge according to the market.  Those are two very different approaches.

Merry Christmas back at you,  :-)
Clyde

JIMRPT@aol.com wrote:

>  Stop comparing yourself with other professions and charge what you think you
> are worth...if you do this then you will be happy and your customers who are
> willing to meet your price will be happy....if you starve to death you are
> charging too much and if your appointments are too many too book/keep you ain't
> charging enough...this without respect to what a plumber makes, or a computer
> repairman or...well you get the drift.
>
> Merry Christmas!! :-)
> Jim Bryant (FL)

From JIMRPT@aol.com

In a message dated 12/21/03 7:42:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
cedel@supernet.com writes:

<< Actually, it appears to me you are saying two things.  (1)  Charge what 
you think you are
 worth, and (2) charge according to the market.  Those are two very different 
approaches.
  >>
Clyde;
 No actually they are the same thingee...... Another way of saying the same 
thing might be ....Charge what you think you are worth in the market you are 
in. :-)
 If you starve then I think plumbing apprentice programs start in the 
spring-time most places! ;-)
Phil Jolly

From Don <pianotuna@accesscomm.ca>

Hi,

Most piano techs charge far less than they should given their hard won
training and expertise. It's a luxury item. That means a luxury price.

At 11:29 PM 12/20/2003 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 12/20/03 7:14:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
>phil@philbondi.com writes:
>
><< Is it fair to compare plumbing and piano work? I say yes. >>
>Hey Y'all...watch my lips I am only gonna say this once! :-)
>That only thing to compare between piano tuning and any other occupation is 
>the dollars that change hands.
>Jim Bryant (FL) 
>

Regards,
Don Rose, B.Mus., A.M.U.S., A.MUS., R.P.T.

mailto:pianotuna@accesscomm.ca
http://us.geocities.com/drpt1948/

3004 Grant Rd.
REGINA, SK
S4S 5G7
306-352-3620 or 1-888-29t-uner