PianoTech Archive

From Ryan Sowers <tunerryan@yahoo.com>

I'm considering paying the $555 for Onesti's balance hole repair system
but would like to talk to someone who has had some experience with it.
When I looked into this a while back it seemed like the best method.
Anyone tried it?

Thanks!

-Ryan Sowers, RPT
Puget Sound Chapter


      

From "Conrad Hoffsommer" <hoffsoco@luther.edu>

On 12/19/08, Ryan Sowers <tunerryan@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I'm considering paying the $555 for Onesti's balance hole repair system
> but would like to talk to someone who has had some experience with it.
> When I looked into this a while back it seemed like the best method.
> Anyone tried it?
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Ryan Sowers, RPT


I love it.


-- 
Conrad Hoffsommer, RPT
Luther College
Decorah, IA

From John Ross <jrpiano@win.eastlink.ca>

I'd love it too, if my university bought it for me. :-)
Hi Conrad,
John Ross


                                                

					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
                                                

                                                    
                                                        
                                                        Original Message
                                                
                                                 Original Message ----- 
From: "Conrad Hoffsommer" <hoffsoco@luther.edu>
To: <tunerryan@yahoo.com>; <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Onesti Balance hole repair system


On 12/19/08, Ryan Sowers <tunerryan@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I'm considering paying the $555 for Onesti's balance hole repair system
> but would like to talk to someone who has had some experience with it.
> When I looked into this a while back it seemed like the best method.
> Anyone tried it?
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Ryan Sowers, RPT


I love it.


-- 
Conrad Hoffsommer, RPT
Luther College
Decorah, IA


John M.Ross
Windsor, Nova Scotia, Canada.

From "David Love" <davidlovepianos@comcast.net>

Yes.  It works well and I have used it successfully several times but there
are some things to consider.  When the job is done you want to be sure that
the front of the keys are indexed to each other so that they all perfectly
aligned without any creeping forward (or back).  Since pulley keys by
definition have an elongated balance rail hole, finding exactly where the
indexed center of that hole is can be tricky.  Rather than using all the
different sized pilot tools to measure the size of the hole for each
individual key I think it is preferable to glue a balance rail punching to
the bottom of the key and then set the keys on the key frame and make sure
they are perfectly aligned while the glue dries.  Then when you remove the
key you will only need a single pilot to locate the center of the glued on
punching.  The seating tool (the cutter that cuts the hole in the bottom of
the key to receive the insert) will easily remove the punching from the
bottom of the key in the process of cutting.

 

On the last job I did the felt punchings were in very good shape and tight
to the balance rail pin and if you use a card or paper punching it must be
snug to the balance rail pin with no play.  Since my intention was to
replace the felt punching anyway, I simply took each key off, put  a spot of
glue around the hole and set the key back on the punching carefully aligning
the fronts of the keys as I went down the row.  After a couple of minutes I
lifted each key up with the punching now a attached to the bottom of the key
which I used as a guide for the pilot tool.  I simply chose a pilot tool
that was easily centered over the hole in the punching.  This method is, I
believe faster than indexing each key with a pilot tool and it has the
benefit of allowing you to index the front of the keys at the same time.
The question then arises whether or not you need all 20 pilot tools.  I'll
let each person answer that for themselves.  

 

Other than that, a laminate flush trim router bit for the sides of the key
and a sharp chisel (is there any other kind) to level the insert to the
bottom of the key and you're in business.   A cross vise is nice, otherwise
you need something to brace the key against while cutting.    

 

David Love

www.davidlovepianos.com

 

From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf
Of Ryan Sowers
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 5:03 PM
To: pianotech@ptg.org
Subject: [pianotech] Onesti Balance hole repair system

 


I'm considering paying the $555 for Onesti's balance hole repair system but
would like to talk to someone who has had some experience with it. When I
looked into this a while back it seemed like the best method. Anyone tried
it?

Thanks!

-Ryan Sowers, RPT
Puget Sound Chapter

 

From "Will Truitt" <surfdog@metrocast.net>

I second David's method, I have  been doing it this way with excellent
results for about twenty years.  I will add that when I put the punching
onto the glued surface of the bottom of the key, I  hold a straight edge to
the front of the key and press the key towards it it slightly, so as to
assure that the punching is properly aligned.  You will only need as many
sized pilots as you have different sized balance rail pins.  The proper size
balance rail pin centered and epoxied  in the cutting tool is the ticket.

 

Will Truitt

 

From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf
Of David Love
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 10:22 PM
To: tunerryan@yahoo.com; pianotech@ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Onesti Balance hole repair system

 

Yes.  It works well and I have used it successfully several times but there
are some things to consider.  When the job is done you want to be sure that
the front of the keys are indexed to each other so that they all perfectly
aligned without any creeping forward (or back).  Since pulley keys by
definition have an elongated balance rail hole, finding exactly where the
indexed center of that hole is can be tricky.  Rather than using all the
different sized pilot tools to measure the size of the hole for each
individual key I think it is preferable to glue a balance rail punching to
the bottom of the key and then set the keys on the key frame and make sure
they are perfectly aligned while the glue dries.  Then when you remove the
key you will only need a single pilot to locate the center of the glued on
punching.  The seating tool (the cutter that cuts the hole in the bottom of
the key to receive the insert) will easily remove the punching from the
bottom of the key in the process of cutting.

 

On the last job I did the felt punchings were in very good shape and tight
to the balance rail pin and if you use a card or paper punching it must be
snug to the balance rail pin with no play.  Since my intention was to
replace the felt punching anyway, I simply took each key off, put  a spot of
glue around the hole and set the key back on the punching carefully aligning
the fronts of the keys as I went down the row.  After a couple of minutes I
lifted each key up with the punching now a attached to the bottom of the key
which I used as a guide for the pilot tool.  I simply chose a pilot tool
that was easily centered over the hole in the punching.  This method is, I
believe faster than indexing each key with a pilot tool and it has the
benefit of allowing you to index the front of the keys at the same time.
The question then arises whether or not you need all 20 pilot tools.  I'll
let each person answer that for themselves.  

 

Other than that, a laminate flush trim router bit for the sides of the key
and a sharp chisel (is there any other kind) to level the insert to the
bottom of the key and you're in business.   A cross vise is nice, otherwise
you need something to brace the key against while cutting.    

 

David Love

www.davidlovepianos.com

 

From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf
Of Ryan Sowers
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 5:03 PM
To: pianotech@ptg.org
Subject: [pianotech] Onesti Balance hole repair system

 


I'm considering paying the $555 for Onesti's balance hole repair system but
would like to talk to someone who has had some experience with it. When I
looked into this a while back it seemed like the best method. Anyone tried
it?

Thanks!

-Ryan Sowers, RPT
Puget Sound Chapter

 

From "Al Guecia/AlliedPianoCraft" <AlliedPianoCraft@hotmail.com>

Great tip David.

Al G
  From: David Love 
  Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 10:21 PM
  To: tunerryan@yahoo.com ; pianotech@ptg.org 
  Subject: Re: [pianotech] Onesti Balance hole repair system


  Yes.  It works well and I have used it successfully several times but there are some things to consider.  When the job is done you want to be sure that the front of the keys are indexed to each other so that they all perfectly aligned without any creeping forward (or back).  Since pulley keys by definition have an elongated balance rail hole, finding exactly where the indexed center of that hole is can be tricky.  Rather than using all the different sized pilot tools to measure the size of the hole for each individual key I think it is preferable to glue a balance rail punching to the bottom of the key and then set the keys on the key frame and make sure they are perfectly aligned while the glue dries.  Then when you remove the key you will only need a single pilot to locate the center of the glued on punching.  The seating tool (the cutter that cuts the hole in the bottom of the key to receive the insert) will easily remove the punching from the bottom of the key in the process of cutting.

   

  On the last job I did the felt punchings were in very good shape and tight to the balance rail pin and if you use a card or paper punching it must be snug to the balance rail pin with no play.  Since my intention was to replace the felt punching anyway, I simply took each key off, put  a spot of glue around the hole and set the key back on the punching carefully aligning the fronts of the keys as I went down the row.  After a couple of minutes I lifted each key up with the punching now a attached to the bottom of the key which I used as a guide for the pilot tool.  I simply chose a pilot tool that was easily centered over the hole in the punching.  This method is, I believe faster than indexing each key with a pilot tool and it has the benefit of allowing you to index the front of the keys at the same time.  The question then arises whether or not you need all 20 pilot tools.  I'll let each person answer that for themselves.  

   

  Other than that, a laminate flush trim router bit for the sides of the key and a sharp chisel (is there any other kind) to level the insert to the bottom of the key and you're in business.   A cross vise is nice, otherwise you need something to brace the key against while cutting.    

   

  David Love

  www.davidlovepianos.com

   

  From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Sowers
  Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 5:03 PM
  To: pianotech@ptg.org
  Subject: [pianotech] Onesti Balance hole repair system

   

        I'm considering paying the $555 for Onesti's balance hole repair system but would like to talk to someone who has had some experience with it. When I looked into this a while back it seemed like the best method. Anyone tried it?

        Thanks!

        -Ryan Sowers, RPT
        Puget Sound Chapter
       

   

From Kent Swafford <kswafford@gmail.com>

The system works very well. Even I was able to make it work...

Kent




On Dec 19, 2008, at 7:03 PM, Ryan Sowers wrote:

> I'm considering paying the $555 for Onesti's balance hole repair  
> system but would like to talk to someone who has had some experience  
> with it. When I looked into this a while back it seemed like the  
> best method. Anyone tried it?
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Ryan Sowers, RPT
> Puget Sound Chapter
>

From Jon Page <jonpage@comcast.net>

>Rather than using all the different sized pilot tools to measure the 
>size of the hole for each
>individual key I think it is preferable to glue a balance rail punching to
>the bottom of the key and then set the keys on the key frame and make sure
>they are perfectly aligned while the glue dries


It's a great system, I was considering, next time,  a fence to index 
the front while drilling
  to align the fronts but this sounds like an easy solution.

On a few sets where the odd key could not be made square for 
levelling, I relocated
the balance rail hole over. Sometimes the hole wasn't right from the 
start and they
bent the pin. It's a good opportunity to correct factory errors.

It is a bit pricey but it sure does the trick.

Regards,

Jon Page

From "William Monroe" <pianotech@a440piano.net>

Yep.  Done it.  Works very well.

William R. Monroe



        I'm considering paying the $555 for Onesti's balance hole repair system but would like to talk to someone who has had some experience with it. When I looked into this a while back it seemed like the best method. Anyone tried it?

        Thanks!

        -Ryan Sowers, RPT
        Puget Sound Chapter 

From Ryan Sowers <tunerryan@yahoo.com>

Well you've all sold me on it. After David's reply I'm interested to know if he will sell the system without all of the pilot tools. Which specific ones do you think are necessary? 

--- On Fri, 12/19/08, David Love <davidlovepianos@comcast.net> wrote:
From: David Love <davidlovepianos@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: [pianotech] Onesti Balance hole repair system
To: tunerryan@yahoo.com, pianotech@ptg.org
Date: Friday, December 19, 2008, 7:21 PM




 
 






Yes.? It works well and I have used it successfully several
times but there are some things to consider.? When the job is done you
want to be sure that the front of the keys are indexed to each other so that they
all perfectly aligned without any creeping forward (or back).? Since
pulley keys by definition have an elongated balance rail hole, finding exactly
where the indexed center of that hole is can be tricky.? Rather than using
all the different sized pilot tools to measure the size of the hole for each
individual key I think it is preferable to glue a balance rail punching to the
bottom of the key and then set the keys on the key frame and make sure they are
perfectly aligned while the glue dries.? Then when you remove the key you
will only need a single pilot to locate the center of the glued on punching..?
The seating tool (the cutter that cuts the hole in the bottom of the key to
receive the insert) will easily remove the punching from the bottom of the key
in the process of cutting. 

 ? 

On the last job I did the felt punchings were in very good shape
and tight to the balance rail pin and if you use a card or paper punching it
must be snug to the balance rail pin with no play.? Since my intention was
to replace the felt punching anyway, I simply took each key off, put? a spot
of glue around the hole and set the key back on the punching carefully aligning
the fronts of the keys as I went down the row.? After a couple of minutes
I lifted each key up with the punching now a attached to the bottom of the key
which I used as a guide for the pilot tool.? I simply chose a pilot tool
that was easily centered over the hole in the punching.? This method is, I
believe faster than indexing each key with a pilot tool and it has the benefit of
allowing you to index the front of the keys at the same time.? The question
then arises whether or not you need all 20 pilot tools.? I?ll let
each person answer that for themselves.?  

 ? 

Other than that, a laminate flush trim router bit for the sides
of the key and a sharp chisel (is there any other kind) to level the insert to
the bottom of the key and you?re in business.? ?A cross vise is
nice, otherwise you need something to brace the key against while cutting.?
?? 

 ? 

David Love 

www.davidlovepianos.com 

 ? 



From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org
[mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Sowers

Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 5:03 PM

To: pianotech@ptg.org

Subject: [pianotech] Onesti Balance hole repair system 



 ? 


 
  
  I'm considering paying the $555 for Onesti's balance hole
  repair system but would like to talk to someone who has had some experience
  with it. When I looked into this a while back it seemed like the best method.
  Anyone tried it?

  

  Thanks!

  

  -Ryan Sowers, RPT

  Puget Sound Chapter 
  
 


 ? 



 




      

From Ryan Sowers <tunerryan@yahoo.com>

I emailed Ralph Onesti and he didn't seem to get what I was talking about with not needing all the extra pilots. He doesn't seem to want to sell the tool without all of them. I tried to clarify so I'll see what his response. is. 

This leads me to wonder about using the Schaff tool that I have using David Love's method with gluing the punchings on the bottom of the keys. The cutter I have works pretty well, its the little fiber inserts that are a pain in the #$*!?@! That system would work much better if the inserts were made of maple or some other hardwood. I was reading that lemon wood is a great material for this because it is naturally lubricious. (I love that word!). 

I'm going to try making some inserts that will work with my Schaff tool and see how that works. I'll have to see if I have a plug cutter that is the right size. 



      

From "David Love" <davidlovepianos@comcast.net>

Can't comment on that.  I did purchase the entire system from him along with
some milled wood for the inserts-enough for a few sets-and I will probably
purchase additional wood from him in the future as it's cheaper to buy it
for me than take the time to shop for the stock, jig up and mill it myself.
Whether I will actually use  all the pilots is unclear but it's nice to have
the set just in case I suppose.  I appreciate Ralph designing the system and
offering it up for sale.   The really essential part of the system is the
cutter which is designed to receive the pilot and the perfectly matching
plug cutter which is designed to receive the drill bit indexed to exactly
the same position as the pilot.  How many pilots you actually need is a
question mark if you use the system as I prefer to use it.  

 

David Love

www.davidlovepianos.com

 

From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf
Of Ryan Sowers
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 3:17 PM
To: pianotech@ptg.org
Subject: [pianotech] Onesti Balance hole repair system

 


I emailed Ralph Onesti and he didn't seem to get what I was talking about
with not needing all the extra pilots. He doesn't seem to want to sell the
tool without all of them. I tried to clarify so I'll see what his response.
is. 

This leads me to wonder about using the Schaff tool that I have using David
Love's method with gluing the punchings on the bottom of the keys. The
cutter I have works pretty well, its the little fiber inserts that are a
pain in the #$*!?@! That system would work much better if the inserts were
made of maple or some other hardwood. I was reading that lemon wood is a
great material for this because it is naturally lubricious. (I love that
word!). 

I'm going to try making some inserts that will work with my Schaff tool and
see how that works. I'll have to see if I have a plug cutter that is the
right size. 

 

From "David Love" <davidlovepianos@comcast.net>

One other thing, the advice Onesti gives is not to use maple since it is too
hard and tends to get noisy if the fit is at all loose.  

 

David Love

www.davidlovepianos.com

 

From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf
Of Ryan Sowers
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 3:17 PM
To: pianotech@ptg.org
Subject: [pianotech] Onesti Balance hole repair system

 


I emailed Ralph Onesti and he didn't seem to get what I was talking about
with not needing all the extra pilots. He doesn't seem to want to sell the
tool without all of them. I tried to clarify so I'll see what his response.
is. 

This leads me to wonder about using the Schaff tool that I have using David
Love's method with gluing the punchings on the bottom of the keys. The
cutter I have works pretty well, its the little fiber inserts that are a
pain in the #$*!?@! That system would work much better if the inserts were
made of maple or some other hardwood. I was reading that lemon wood is a
great material for this because it is naturally lubricious. (I love that
word!). 

I'm going to try making some inserts that will work with my Schaff tool and
see how that works. I'll have to see if I have a plug cutter that is the
right size. 

 

From "William Monroe" <pianotech@a440piano.net>

Right,

I use (and I believe Ralph stills sells) poplar.  Works very well.  I recently have done new windows in my home and used 5/4 poplar for the exterior trimwork.  I used leftovers from those flat sawn boards, and sliced off strips for insert blanks.  Perfect quarter sawn poplar strips!  And, since it is leftovers, no cost (takes about 5 minutes on the table saw to set up and rip off as many strips as you need.

William R. Monroe


  One other thing, the advice Onesti gives is not to use maple since it is too hard and tends to get noisy if the fit is at all loose.  

   

  David Love

   

  SNIP

        That system would work much better if the inserts were made of maple or some other hardwood.
       

   

From "Ed  Sutton" <ed440@mindspring.com>

The PTG Journal reprint book "Keys" has an article by Bill Spurlock describing a different repair system you can make for yourself very inexpensively. I've used it successfully.

The book also contains articles describing about 50 other kinds of key repairs.

Order via ptg.org

Ed Sutton

From Ryan Sowers <tunerryan@yahoo.com>

Ed Sutton wrote:
  

The PTG Journal reprint book "Keys" has an article by Bill Spurlock describing a different repair system you can make for yourself very inexpensively. I've used it successfully.

The book also contains articles describing about 50 other kinds of key repairs.

Order via ptg.org

Ed Sutton

I have a copy of that reprint book...somewhere! I'll check it out, Ed! Spurlock usually has a practical approach to these problems!