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Hammers- alcohol treatment/Isaac

  • 1.  Hammers- alcohol treatment/Isaac

    Posted 11-25-2003 16:47
    From "Joseph Garrett" <joegarrett@earthlink.net>
    
    Isaac said: "alcohol on wool will make it too dry, wool have some lanolin in
    it that
    should be preserved I believe. may be when we will have 100% synthetic
    hammer fiber ?"
    
    Isaac,
    I doubt that there is any lanolin left in hammer felt, once the
    felting/pressing process is done. Alcohol w/water will only tend to make the
    felt expand sufficiently to add resilience back into the wool fiber, which
    will make the hammer more springy. This will make the hammer give a wider
    range of dynamics in playing. I have not found the treatment to have any
    negative effects, other than distorting the shape somewhat. I use this
    method, often, on "quarried" hammers with good results.
    As for Synthetic fiber being used in hammers.....?.....Nah. That would
    require some company to do R&D! Heaven forbid!<G>
    Best Regards,
    
    Joe Garrett, RPT, (Oregon)
    Captain, Tool Police
    Squares Are I
    


  • 2.  Hammers- alcohol treatment/Isaac

    Posted 11-25-2003 19:14
    From Andrew & Rebeca Anderson <anrebe@zianet.com>
    
    Joe,
    I have a Yamaha Grand to tune tomorrow that I've been thinking of 
    voicing.  It has a sharp tone that hurts the ear.  Am I to understand that 
    a 50/50 mix of water and denatured alcohol might save my needles some hard 
    work?  Do you iron that in or just let it soak in and dry out?
    
    Comments, anyone, on ironing a wet towel over the hammer heads and its 
    affect on the piano's voice.  Would I achieve too much too fast?
    
    Andrew Anderson
    Las Cruces NM
    
    At 03:46 PM 11/25/2003 -0800, you wrote:
    >Isaac said: "alcohol on wool will make it too dry, wool have some lanolin in
    >it that
    >should be preserved I believe. may be when we will have 100% synthetic
    >hammer fiber ?"
    >
    >Isaac,
    >I doubt that there is any lanolin left in hammer felt, once the
    >felting/pressing process is done. Alcohol w/water will only tend to make the
    >felt expand sufficiently to add resilience back into the wool fiber, which
    >will make the hammer more springy. This will make the hammer give a wider
    >range of dynamics in playing. I have not found the treatment to have any
    >negative effects, other than distorting the shape somewhat. I use this
    >method, often, on "quarried" hammers with good results.
    >As for Synthetic fiber being used in hammers.....?.....Nah. That would
    >require some company to do R&D! Heaven forbid!<G>
    >Best Regards,
    >
    >Joe Garrett, RPT, (Oregon)
    >Captain, Tool Police
    >Squares Are I
    >
    >
    >_______________________________________________
    >pianotech list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech
    


  • 3.  Hammers- alcohol treatment/Isaac

    Posted 11-26-2003 01:41
    From Richard Brekne <Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no>
    
    Andrew & Rebeca Anderson wrote:
    > 
    > Joe,
    > I have a Yamaha Grand to tune tomorrow that I've been thinking of
    > voicing.  It has a sharp tone that hurts the ear.  Am I to understand that
    > a 50/50 mix of water and denatured alcohol might save my needles some hard
    > work?  Do you iron that in or just let it soak in and dry out?
    > 
    > Comments, anyone, on ironing a wet towel over the hammer heads and its
    > affect on the piano's voice.  Would I achieve too much too fast?
    > 
    > 
    
    
    I would use more like a 80 to 20 mix... 20 % water. Much more forgiving.
    Especially if you've never done this before. And dont soak the
    suckers... just drip in about 5-6 drops down the shoulders, the idea
    being to avoid more then minimal amount getting in under the crown area.
    Puff up the shoulders all you want, but leave the crown hard... Reshape
    and needle as usual afterwards.
    
    I've seen even grossly overdone jobs return to cast iron hard given
    enough time and play. But if you soften the crown area.. my experience
    is that the hammers will just wear right out.
    
    I like Rogers Steam voicing better then this water alcohol trick... tho
    I've used both with success. Still... even with hard hammers... I find
    that needling is in the end the best... tho I didnt always think that
    way.
    
    Cheers
    RicB
    
    
    -- 
    Richard Brekne
    RPT, N.P.T.F.
    UiB, Bergen, Norway
    mailto:rbrekne@broadpark.no
    http://home.broadpark.no/~rbrekne/ricmain.html
    http://www.hf.uib.no/grieg/personer/cv_RB.html
    


  • 4.  Hammers- alcohol treatment/Isaac

    Posted 11-26-2003 03:50
    From "Michael Gamble" <michael@gambles.fsnet.co.uk>
    
    Hello RicB
    You said: "I like Rogers Steam voicing better then this water alcohol
    trick... tho
    I've used both with success." I have just put a query on the site to Joe
    Garrett about "How do you Sugar the Hammers" And your comment about another
    variant: "Roger Jolly's Steaming Method" makes me ask what this method is?
    and how is it applied? and what equipment is needed?. Even - if the info is
    already available - how can it be accessed? But I like to hear straight from
    the guy who knows the answers just the same!
    Regards from the wet-lands of Sussex
    Michael G (UK)
    


  • 5.  Hammers- alcohol treatment/Isaac

    Posted 11-26-2003 11:51
    From Richard Brekne <Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no>
    
    Hello MichealG
    
    Since this is Roger Jolley's bag, I will defer to him for an proper
    explanation. 
    
    RicB
    
    Michael Gamble wrote:
    > 
    > Hello RicB
    > You said: "I like Rogers Steam voicing better then this water alcohol
    > trick... tho
    > I've used both with success." I have just put a query on the site to Joe
    > Garrett about "How do you Sugar the Hammers" And your comment about another
    > variant: "Roger Jolly's Steaming Method" makes me ask what this method is?
    > and how is it applied? and what equipment is needed?. Even - if the info is
    > already available - how can it be accessed? But I like to hear straight from
    > the guy who knows the answers just the same!
    > Regards from the wet-lands of Sussex
    > Michael G (UK)
    > 
    > _______________________________________________
    > pianotech list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech
    
    -- 
    Richard Brekne
    RPT, N.P.T.F.
    UiB, Bergen, Norway
    mailto:rbrekne@broadpark.no
    http://home.broadpark.no/~rbrekne/ricmain.html
    http://www.hf.uib.no/grieg/personer/cv_RB.html
    


  • 6.  Hammers- alcohol treatment/Isaac

    Posted 11-26-2003 10:16
    From Avery Todd <avery@ev1.net>
    
    Michael,
    
     From the archives, below is Roger's method as described by himself.
    
    Avery
    
    At 10:15 AM 11/26/03 +0000, you wrote:
    >Hi Michael,
    >
    >There is lots about steam voicing in the archives. Basically a damp cloth
    >and a hot "hammer iron" to inject steam into the felt. Some level of
    >control is possible vs steaming with a tea kettle.
    >
    >Regards,
    >Don Rose, B.Mus., A.M.U.S., A.MUS., R.P.T.
    >
    >mailto:pianotuna@accesscomm.ca
    >http://us.geocities.com/drpt1948/
    >
    >3004 Grant Rd.
    >REGINA, SK
    >S4S 5G7
    >306-352-3620 or 1-888-29t-uner
    
    
    Having taught a steaming class for the Yamaha Canada staff Techs, who are 
    now converts, I think we would all agree that there are some decided 
    advantages to steam as apposed to needling. (The hammers are not being
    torn with the needles) However, if you have read any of my previous posts
    on the subject you will note that I do not use the steam kettle approach,
    as I feel it lacks control.
    
    Having received several private posts for further information in the last 
    few months, I will try to lay out the complete procedure that I use, that 
    may be of help, and be safe for a relatively novice voicer.
    
    Assuming the piano is well regulated, strings are secure on bridges and
    the instrument is well tuned.
    
    Tools required.
    1.  40 Watt Weller soldering iron with brass voicing head.
    2.  Yamaha style voicing Blocks. 8" & 2 1/2" Length
    3.  10"X6" length of Irish linen. Draw a ball point line down the centre.
    
    Run chromatics up and down the key board to determine what you are trying
    to achieve; reduction of volume in certain sections, or reduction of 
    percussive effects, or both. Run octaves and double octaves from mid C to 
    high C to determine balance. Ideally I like the upper note to sit on top
    but not scream through. Run major triad progressions root position down 
    through the centre section and over the tenor break. All three notes
    should sound like a homogenous unit with no stand out notes You should 
    finger these exercises as evenly as possible at mf. If you take your time
    on this section, you will have a good understanding of the potential of
    the instrument.
    
    Application. I normally start in the first soprano section. This seems to
    be the area that always needs the most attention.
    1. Prop up the hammers with the voicing block and ensure that they are
        even and firmly seated.
    2. Wet the cloth and wring it out as much as possible.
    3. Press the cloth around both shoulders with the hot iron.
    4. Remove the cloth and press the whole hammer face and shoulder with the
        hot dry iron.
    5. Reinstall action and observe change.
    6. Reapply as required, or increase the dampness of the cloth in severe
        cases.
    7. Work your way outwards from this section using the octave and double
        octave checks.
    8. Check for loud notes. These you can invert the iron and steam at the
        10 & 2 o'clock position of the hammer.
    9. If you just want to remove percussion and impact noise, or mask V bar
        noise, again prop the hammers up, line up the mark on the cloth with
        the strike point, use the iron upside down with the cloth just damp
        and quick dab the strike point.
    10. Dry press all hammers quickly, recheck hammer string mating, correct
         as required,
    11. Some minor needling may be required, if so dry iron again.
    
    As a rule of thumb North American pianos need the least amount of
    treatment re moisture. Except for the heavily doped trebles. Japanese 
    hammers a little more aggressive, Korean pianos tend to need more
    again. Once you pay your dues, you will find that you can control how
    much moisture and where to target. I have done about half a dozen
    clinics with this method and have received nothing but positive
    feedback. As for felt separating on Yamaha hammers, I think that there
    are only two explanations. First the jet of steam was too aggressive
    or the glue on the molding was ready to fail in the first place. Re;
    dry ironing, If the iron is really hot and significant pressure is
    applied, you can almost reverse the steam, again more control than the 
    kettle approach. With very little practice the whole job can be
    accomplished with the action resting in your lap at the piano. This
    makes life easy for touchups and samples.
    
    
    >At 10:50 AM 11/26/2003 -0000, you wrote:
    > >Hello RicB
    > >You said: "I like Rogers Steam voicing better then this water alcohol
    > >trick... tho
    > >I've used both with success." I have just put a query on the site to Joe
    > >Garrett about "How do you Sugar the Hammers" And your comment about another
    > >variant: "Roger Jolly's Steaming Method" makes me ask what this method is?
    > >and how is it applied? and what equipment is needed?. Even - if the info is
    > >already available - how can it be accessed? But I like to hear straight from
    > >the guy who knows the answers just the same!
    > >Regards from the wet-lands of Sussex
    > >Michael G (UK)
    


  • 7.  Hammers- alcohol treatment/Isaac

    Posted 11-26-2003 12:40
    From "Michael Gamble" <michael@gambles.fsnet.co.uk>
    
    Hello Avery Todd, Don Rose and list
    Thanks very much for the very detailed reply to my request. I am, as ever,
    struck by the sincere desire of you all to impart genuine knowledge,
    "know-how"and help to those like myself who ask. The question of:
    Tools required.
    "1.  40 Watt Weller soldering iron with brass voicing head."
    This 40 Watt job - is it one of those soldering irons with a "U" shaped bit?
    And what is this 'voicing head', what does it look like, how is it fitted
    and is it home made or commercially available?
    And:
    "2.  Yamaha style voicing Blocks. 8" & 2 1/2" Length"
    What do these look like?
    " With very little practice the whole job can be
    accomplished with the action resting in your lap at the piano."
    Am I right in assuming a grand piano is being dealt with here?
    Are there pics of this equipment? Then I might be able to cobble some
    together...!
    Many thanks - this goes straight into my 'archives-from-the-pianotech book!'
    Michael G (UK) 'Twas night time in the Sussex Downs.... Dark, forbidding...
    almost tangible":-)
    


  • 8.  Hammers- alcohol treatment/Isaac

    Posted 11-26-2003 16:23
      |   view attached
    From Avery Todd <avery@ev1.net>
    
    At 07:39 PM 11/26/03 +0000, you wrote:
    >Hello Avery Todd, Don Rose and list
    >Thanks very much for the very detailed reply to my request. I am, as ever,
    >struck by the sincere desire of you all to impart genuine knowledge,
    >"know-how"and help to those like myself who ask. The question of:
    >Tools required.
    >"1.  40 Watt Weller soldering iron with brass voicing head."
    >This 40 Watt job - is it one of those soldering irons with a "U" shaped bit?
    >And what is this 'voicing head', what does it look like, how is it fitted
    >and is it home made or commercially available?
    
    Hammer Iron picture is from the H.J. Fletcher & Newman Ltd. webpage.
    The main difference is the one we're talking about is electric.
    
    >And:
    >"2.  Yamaha style voicing Blocks. 8" & 2 1/2" Length"
    >What do these look like?
    
    I've tried but I can't find a picture. It's just a wedge shaped
    block of wood the app. dimensions listed above which is inserted
    behind the wippens and in front of the backchecks (after the hammers
    are lifted out of the way, of course) and then the hammer tails rest
    on that block for support while voicing. With steam, needles, whatever
    when the hammers need support.
    
    >" With very little practice the whole job can be
    >accomplished with the action resting in your lap at the piano."
    >Am I right in assuming a grand piano is being dealt with here?
    
    How often have you voiced an upright action with it in your lap?
    Sorry, couldn't resist. :-)
    
    Avery
    
    >Are there pics of this equipment? Then I might be able to cobble some
    >together...!
    >Many thanks - this goes straight into my 'archives-from-the-pianotech book!'
    >Michael G (UK) 'Twas night time in the Sussex Downs.... Dark, forbidding...
    >almost tangible":-)
    


  • 9.  Hammers- alcohol treatment/Isaac

    Posted 11-27-2003 03:46
    From "Michael Gamble" <michael@gambles.fsnet.co.uk>
    
    Hellooo Avery T
    Thanks for your answer:" How often have you voiced an upright action with it
    in your lap?
    Sorry, couldn't resist. :-)"
    (I rather asked for that didn't I?:-)
    "Hammer Iron picture is from the H.J. Fletcher & Newman Ltd. webpage.
    The main difference is the one we're talking about is electric."
    Yup... I have F&N's cat next to me. Didn't know there was an eclectric
    version...
    And:Yup
    "2.  Yamaha style voicing Blocks. 8" & 2 1/2" Length"
    What do these look like?"
    Thanks to Andre Oorebeek in his amazing cat: www.grandpiano.nl I have found
    a piccy of a set of blocks such as you describe.
    
    I've tried but I can't find a picture. It's just a wedge shaped
    block of wood the app. dimensions listed above which is inserted
    behind the wippens and in front of the backchecks (after the hammers
    are lifted out of the way, of course) and then the hammer tails rest
    on that block for support while voicing. With steam, needles, whatever
    when the hammers need support.
    
    Thanks for this too - it all makes obvious common sense. I must be getting
    mental aberrations in my aged state....;-)
    Regards
    Michael G (UK) on a clear sunny morning in the Sussex Downlands
    


  • 10.  Hammers- alcohol treatment/Isaac

    Posted 11-27-2003 08:49
    From Avery Todd <avery@ev1.net>
    
    Hi Michael,
    
    At 10:45 AM 11/27/03 +0000, you wrote:
    >Hellooo Avery T
    >Thanks for your answer:" How often have you voiced an upright action with it
    >in your lap?
    >Sorry, couldn't resist. :-)"
    >(I rather asked for that didn't I?:-)
    
    Yep. :-)
    
    >"Hammer Iron picture is from the H.J. Fletcher & Newman Ltd. webpage.
    >The main difference is the one we're talking about is electric."
    >Yup... I have F&N's cat next to me. Didn't know there was an eclectric
    >version...
    >And:Yup
    
    If I had a scanner and my Schaff catalogue here, I could probably
    send you a pic.
    
    >"2.  Yamaha style voicing Blocks. 8" & 2 1/2" Length"
    >What do these look like?"
    >Thanks to Andre Oorebeek in his amazing cat: www.grandpiano.nl I have found
    >a piccy of a set of blocks such as you describe.
    
    Yep. That's the type, although slightly different from Yamahas' blocks.
    I didn't think of looking on Andre's site. Thanks.
    
    Those look like they might be better. On some pianos, the other ones
    tend to get wedged between the wippen rail and backchecks, making them
    a little difficult to get out.
    
    >I've tried but I can't find a picture. It's just a wedge shaped
    >block of wood the app. dimensions listed above which is inserted
    >behind the wippens and in front of the backchecks (after the hammers
    >are lifted out of the way, of course) and then the hammer tails rest
    >on that block for support while voicing. With steam, needles, whatever
    >when the hammers need support.
    >
    >Thanks for this too - it all makes obvious common sense. I must be getting
    >mental aberrations in my aged state....;-)
    
    Well, I've had my moments, too. You're not the only one who's kind
    of "long in the tooth"! :-)
    
    >Regards
    >Michael G (UK) on a clear sunny morning in the Sussex Downlands
    
    Avery
    


  • 11.  Hammers- alcohol treatment/Isaac/catalogues

    Posted 11-27-2003 10:28
    From "Michael Gamble" <michael@gambles.fsnet.co.uk>
    
    Hello Avery T and list
    This business about catalogues - I down-loaded the Jahn pianoteile cat the
    other day as it had some fantastic tools in - the like of which I've never
    seen, but dream't about (hey that looks kinda poetic... "dream't") They very
    kindly sent me the whol thing. Very nicely laid out and there's a price-list
    available in English. Go to www.pianoteile.com and log on using  >
    Klavierbauer < as a password. Is the Schaff cat on the net? Andre Oorebeek
    is - go to: web site www.grandpiano.nl at : materials". Good site for
    hammers, hammer assemblies, special hammer glue, levers (whippens), strips
    of damper felt (though I prefer sets of ready-cut) reeled strips of bushing
    cloth. Seems to be all grands - but that's good to know (GTK)? Fletcher and
    Newman is on the internet as well - go to: www.fletcher-newman.co.uk They
    have included tools which I have developed from a different use - such as
    dog claw clippers for very close-tolerance hammer shank cutting. Good one
    that! I know it's been in the catalogues now for years, but it was years ago
    that I first told them of my discovery. I've also developed a pliers to
    squeeze the single whippen/jack spring close to the coil for spring-tension
    adjustments. Easy to make them stronger... but to weaken them "in-situ" is
    what this does. It works too!
    Enough of this!
    Regards
    Michael G (UK) 'Tis dark now in the Sussex Downlands
    


  • 12.  Hammers- alcohol treatment/Isaac

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-26-2003 10:16
    From Don <pianotuna@accesscomm.ca>
    
    Hi Michael,
    
    There is lots about steam voicing in the archives. Basically a damp cloth
    and a hot "hammer iron" to inject steam into the felt. Some level of
    control is possible vs steaming with a tea kettle.
    
    At 10:50 AM 11/26/2003 -0000, you wrote:
    >Hello RicB
    >You said: "I like Rogers Steam voicing better then this water alcohol
    >trick... tho
    >I've used both with success." I have just put a query on the site to Joe
    >Garrett about "How do you Sugar the Hammers" And your comment about another
    >variant: "Roger Jolly's Steaming Method" makes me ask what this method is?
    >and how is it applied? and what equipment is needed?. Even - if the info is
    >already available - how can it be accessed? But I like to hear straight from
    >the guy who knows the answers just the same!
    >Regards from the wet-lands of Sussex
    >Michael G (UK)
    >
    >
    >_______________________________________________
    >pianotech list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech
    >
    >
    
    Regards,
    Don Rose, B.Mus., A.M.U.S., A.MUS., R.P.T.
    
    mailto:pianotuna@accesscomm.ca
    http://us.geocities.com/drpt1948/
    
    3004 Grant Rd.
    REGINA, SK
    S4S 5G7
    306-352-3620 or 1-888-29t-uner
    


  • 13.  Hammers- alcohol treatment/Isaac

    Posted 11-26-2003 21:07
    From Roger Jolly <roger.j@sasktel.net>
    
    Hi Michael,
                         I am available for private tuition, next time I'm back 
    in the UK.  Very expensive: About 3 pints of Best Bitter.
    If you send your mailing address, I will mail you a copy of my Journal 
    articles..   A 40Watt Weller soldering Iron with an American bit will work 
    just fine.
    
    Regards The Pirate from Plymouth.
    Jolly Roger
    
    
    At 10:50 AM 11/26/2003 +0000, you wrote:
    >Hello RicB
    >You said: "I like Rogers Steam voicing better then this water alcohol
    >trick... tho
    >I've used both with success." I have just put a query on the site to Joe
    >Garrett about "How do you Sugar the Hammers" And your comment about another
    >variant: "Roger Jolly's Steaming Method" makes me ask what this method is?
    >and how is it applied? and what equipment is needed?. Even - if the info is
    >already available - how can it be accessed? But I like to hear straight from
    >the guy who knows the answers just the same!
    >Regards from the wet-lands of Sussex
    >Michael G (UK)
    >
    >
    >_______________________________________________
    >pianotech list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech
    


  • 14.  Hammers- alcohol treatment/Isaac

    Posted 11-26-2003 23:54
    From Richard Brekne <Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no>
    
    Just dont get him started on the Aqua Vit? :):)
    
    Cheers, and Happy Thanksgiving folks... Even you Canadian CrossGrades !
    
    RicB
    
    Roger Jolly wrote:
    
    > Hi Michael,
    >                      I am available for private tuition, next time I'm back
    > in the UK.  Very expensive: About 3 pints of Best Bitter.
    > If you send your mailing address, I will mail you a copy of my Journal
    > articles..   A 40Watt Weller soldering Iron with an American bit will work
    > just fine.
    >
    > Regards The Pirate from Plymouth.
    > Jolly Roger
    >
    > At 10:50 AM 11/26/2003 +0000, you wrote:
    > >Hello RicB
    > >You said: "I like Rogers Steam voicing better then this water alcohol
    > >trick... tho
    > >I've used both with success." I have just put a query on the site to Joe
    > >Garrett about "How do you Sugar the Hammers" And your comment about another
    > >variant: "Roger Jolly's Steaming Method" makes me ask what this method is?
    > >and how is it applied? and what equipment is needed?. Even - if the info is
    > >already available - how can it be accessed? But I like to hear straight from
    > >the guy who knows the answers just the same!
    > >Regards from the wet-lands of Sussex
    > >Michael G (UK)
    > >
    > >
    > >_______________________________________________
    > >pianotech list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech
    >
    > _______________________________________________
    > pianotech list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech
    
    --
    Richard Brekne
    RPT, N.P.T.F.
    UiB, Bergen, Norway
    mailto:rbrekne@broadpark.no
    http://home.broadpark.no/~rbrekne/ricmain.html
    http://www.hf.uib.no/grieg/personer/cv_RB.html
    


  • 15.  Hammers- alcohol treatment/Isaac

    Posted 11-27-2003 04:32
    From "Michael Gamble" <michael@gambles.fsnet.co.uk>
    
    Hello Pirate King! Roger J!
    I inadvertently sent my reply to Ron N. just now - thinking the reference to
    3 Pints was from him... So here's my copy to you!"You said:" I am available
    for private tuition, next time I'm back in the UK.Very expensive: About 3
    pints of Best Bitter.
    That would be M&B, but you'd have to go back in time about 35 years.
    In Norfolk (UK) we call Mild and Bitter "Halfa'two's" - but you only get it
    in half pints. In Sussex we have our very own Brewery. Excellent beverages!
    Harveys is the name! And you don't have to go back 35 years to get it. When
    they're brewing the whole town of Lewes reeks of boiling hops. Great!
    I certainly look forward to reading your Journal articles. Here's my
    address:
    "Westwick"
    29 Shepherds Way
    Ringmer near Lewes
    Sussex  BN8 5LT   (UK)
    Regards
    Michael G (UK) where even the water used in beer-making is called
    "liquor"...!
    


  • 16.  Hammers- alcohol treatment/Isaac

    Posted 11-27-2003 09:22
    From Roger Jolly <roger.j@sasktel.net>
    
    Hi Michael,
                          A pint of best bitter, is a lot different than a pint 
    of Half and Half.  They still serve Half and Half in the pubs of the West 
    Country.   Then again they were always slower than the Home Counties.
    
    Grinning.
    Roger
    
    
    
    At 11:31 AM 11/27/2003 +0000, you wrote:
    >Hello Pirate King! Roger J!
    >I inadvertently sent my reply to Ron N. just now - thinking the reference to
    >3 Pints was from him... So here's my copy to you!"You said:" I am available
    >for private tuition, next time I'm back in the UK.Very expensive: About 3
    >pints of Best Bitter.
    >That would be M&B, but you'd have to go back in time about 35 years.
    >In Norfolk (UK) we call Mild and Bitter "Halfa'two's" - but you only get it
    >in half pints. In Sussex we have our very own Brewery. Excellent beverages!
    >Harveys is the name! And you don't have to go back 35 years to get it. When
    >they're brewing the whole town of Lewes reeks of boiling hops. Great!
    >I certainly look forward to reading your Journal articles. Here's my
    >address:
    >"Westwick"
    >29 Shepherds Way
    >Ringmer near Lewes
    >Sussex  BN8 5LT   (UK)
    >Regards
    >Michael G (UK) where even the water used in beer-making is called
    >"liquor"...!
    >
    >
    >_______________________________________________
    >pianotech list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech
    


  • 17.  OT Re: Hammers- alcohol treatment/Isaac

    Posted 11-27-2003 09:37
    From Ron Nossaman <RNossaman@cox.net>
    
    >       A pint of best bitter, is a lot different than a pint of Half and 
    > Half.
    >
    >Roger
    
    As was the old M&B bitter, formerly obtainable at the Three Shoes in Upper 
    Heyford, that was no longer brewed after about 1968-69.
    
    Ron N
    


  • 18.  OT Re: Hammers- alcohol treatment/Isaac

    Posted 11-27-2003 10:46
    From "Michael Gamble" <michael@gambles.fsnet.co.uk>
    
    Hello Roger and Ron ++ all you thirsty types
    This was mooted: "    A pint of best bitter, is a lot different than a pint
    of Half and
    > Half."
    A sentiment with which I thoroughly agree. But Harveys Best Bitter brewed
    near me in Lewes can knock the spots off most brews. I believe you can even
    stick hammers on with it if you use it to mix powder glue... Might even work
    straight!
    Regards all!
    Michael G (UK) (Hic!)
    


  • 19.  Hammers- alcohol treatment/Isaac

    Posted 11-26-2003 21:15
    From Ron Nossaman <RNossaman@cox.net>
    
    >   I am available for private tuition, next time I'm back in the UK.  Very 
    > expensive: About 3 pints of Best Bitter.
    
    That would be M&B, but you'd have to go back in time about 35 years.
    
    Ron N
    


  • 20.  Hammers- alcohol treatment/Isaac

    Posted 11-27-2003 04:20
    From "Michael Gamble" <michael@gambles.fsnet.co.uk>
    
    Hello Ron N
    You said:" I am available for private tuition, next time I'm back in the UK.
    Very
    > expensive: About 3 pints of Best Bitter.
    
    That would be M&B, but you'd have to go back in time about 35 years.
    In Norfolk (UK) we call Mild and Bitter "Halfa'two's" - but you only get it
    in half pints. In Sussex we have our very own Brewery. Excellent beverages!
    Harveys is the name! And you don't have to go back 35 years to get it. When
    they're brewing the whole town of Lewes reeks of boiling hops. Great!
    Regards
    Michael G (UK) where the water used in beer-making is called "liquor"...!
    


  • 21.  Hammers- alcohol treatment/Isaac

    Posted 11-26-2003 02:21
    From "Farrell" <mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com>
    
    Are you aware of  Roger Jolly's controllable steam voicing method?
    
    Also, (flame suit on) I regularly voice a number of bright Yamaha C3s down by simply sugar-coating the strike point technique mandated by my client). All done very quickly - you can do the whole piano is less than five minutes and you don't have to concern yourself with sticking a needle deep into the hammer. Doesn't last a long time, but it does get you there.
    
    Terry Farrell
    
    


  • 22.  Hammers- alcohol treatment/Isaac

    Posted 11-26-2003 03:43
    From "Michael Gamble" <michael@gambles.fsnet.co.uk>
    
    Hello Terry Farrell
    You said: "Also, (flame suit on) I regularly voice a number of bright Yamaha C3s down by simply sugar-coating the strike point technique mandated by my client). All done very quickly - you can do the whole piano is less than five minutes and you don't have to concern yourself with sticking a needle deep into the hammer. Doesn't last a long time, but it does get you there."
    Could you describe exactly the process of sugaring the pill (sorry - I meant Hammers) :-) What sugar? - icing? is it liquified? to what consistency?
    Sounds interesting!
    Regards
    Michael G (UK) still bucketting down in the Downs...


  • 23.  Hammers- alcohol treatment/Isaac

    Posted 11-26-2003 05:37
    From "Elian Degen J." <elian_degen@cantv.net>
    
    Hi, everybody
    
    I bought one of those inexpensive steam gadgets to take wrinkles out of ties
    and shirts.
    
    I use water, and pass the steamer in front of the hammers
    
    The effect is very fast, need some practice or you can get it too low
    
    Very effective and lasts also
    
    Elian Degen-President/Owner.
    
    DEGEN'S  PIANO  INC.
    14359 Miramar Parkway # 254
    Miramar, Fl 33027-4134 U.S.A.
    Phone:   1(954)614-3453
    Fax:    1(801)640-7621
    Web:  www.ElianDegen.com
    Web:  www.DegensPiano.com
    E-mail:   Elian@DegensPiano.com
    
    
    
    


  • 24.  Hammers- alcohol treatment/Isaac/steamer

    Posted 11-26-2003 09:07
    From "Michael Gamble" <michael@gambles.fsnet.co.uk>
    
    Hello Elian & list
    Elian wrote:"I bought one of those inexpensive steam gadgets to take
    wrinkles out of ties
    and shirts."  I bought an electric coffee milk frother (for cappucino) with
    the intention of using it as a steam generator in removing glued-on felt.
    Quite successful. Anyone had experiance of using this for hammer-steaming? I
    guess a "steamer is a steamer is a steamer"? It has the usual chrome pipe +
    nozzle and the unit is about the size of a small vacuum flask - but it does
    get HOT! so kitchen gloves are needed.
    Regards
    Michael G (UK) where the sun is just going down over the South Downs (yes!
    SUN!!)
    


  • 25.  Hammers- alcohol treatment/Isaac

    Posted 11-26-2003 00:58
    From David Ilvedson <ilvey@sbcglobal.net>
    
    If I was you I'd give it a stitch just behind the string marks on both sides and see what you've got.  It may take some needling but you can work with those hammers with out much trouble.  Leave the solutions for those rock hammers you can't get a needle in.   
    
    David Ilvedson
    
    
    
    


  • 26.  Hammers- alcohol treatment/Isaac

    Posted 11-26-2003 01:16
    From Richard Brekne <Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no>
    
    So whats it going to be there folks... Grin... Is there or is there not
    lanolin in hammer felts and should it or should it not be preserved, and
    does it or does it not get adversly affected by alcohol, and is this or
    is this not a detriment to piano tone ?
    
    Or should I ask... do we or do we not really know the answer to these
    and other exciting questions at all ?
    
    Cheers
    RicB
    
    
    
    Joseph Garrett wrote:
    > 
    > Isaac said: "alcohol on wool will make it too dry, wool have some lanolin in
    > it that
    > should be preserved I believe. may be when we will have 100% synthetic
    > hammer fiber ?"
    > 
    > Isaac,
    > I doubt that there is any lanolin left in hammer felt, once the
    > felting/pressing process is done. Alcohol w/water will only tend to make the
    > felt expand sufficiently to add resilience back into the wool fiber, which
    > will make the hammer more springy. This will make the hammer give a wider
    > range of dynamics in playing. I have not found the treatment to have any
    > negative effects, other than distorting the shape somewhat. I use this
    > method, often, on "quarried" hammers with good results.
    > As for Synthetic fiber being used in hammers.....?.....Nah. That would
    > require some company to do R&D! Heaven forbid!<G>
    > Best Regards,
    > 
    > Joe Garrett, RPT, (Oregon)
    > Captain, Tool Police
    > Squares Are I
    > 
    > _______________________________________________
    > pianotech list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech
    
    -- 
    Richard Brekne
    RPT, N.P.T.F.
    UiB, Bergen, Norway
    mailto:rbrekne@broadpark.no
    http://home.broadpark.no/~rbrekne/ricmain.html
    http://www.hf.uib.no/grieg/personer/cv_RB.html
    


  • 27.  Hammers- alcohol treatment/Isaac

    Posted 11-26-2003 04:01
    From "Michael Gamble" <michael@gambles.fsnet.co.uk>
    
    Hello Richard
    You said: "Or should I ask... do we or do we not really know the answer to
    these
    and other exciting questions at all ?"
    This sounds like a further need for expensive R&D! Hey ho! Who does R&D
    anyway - or do we do it by ear? (like tuning!)<G>
    Regards
    Michael G (UK)
    


  • 28.  Hammers- alcohol treatment/Isaac

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-26-2003 04:09
    From "Phil Bondi" <phil@philbondi.com>
    
    Personally, I have had good luck with Yamaha hammers using
    steam..controlable steam. I know the company has had trouble in the
    past with techs using all kinds of methods to soften their hammers,
    but the contolled steam method works very well with these hammers.
     
    I also feel a class on controlled steam voicing should be a staple
    at all PTG conventions. It's another useful tool all of us should
    have in our bags to do our jobs.
     
    my experiences,
     
    -Phil Bondi(FL)
    phil@philbondi.com