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Loss and Piano Tuning ( was: hearing etc.)

  • 1.  Loss and Piano Tuning ( was: hearing etc.)

    Posted 05-07-2006 13:10
    From A440A@aol.com
    
    Robert writes: 
    << Thanks a lot for your comments Andrew. I will defintely look into getting 
    ear plugs. Not only do I want to prevent any damage to my ears as a result of 
    tuning pianos, but I don't want my hearing to be degraded as a musician either 
    since I play piano recitals and attend lots of concerts.  >>
    
    Greetings, 
           It is interesting that we, as tuner/techs, worry so much about our 
    hearing.  I don't think I have ever met someone that had to leave the business 
    because of hearing problems.  
    
    HOWEVER !,  I have spoken to numerous techs and former techs that had to 
    leave the tuning and rebuilding business because of joint problems, repetitive 
    stress problems, tendonitis, carpal tunnel problems, etc.  and I have heard very, 
    very, little about protecting against these things.  
         Worry about our hearing is misplaced if we ignore the mechanical dangers 
    of our work.  I would suggest that a better expense than custom ear plugs 
    would be a yoga course, or a physical trainer or therapist that could diagnose 
    our posture, ergonomic habits, and flexibility capacity.  That is where the more 
    likely danger will be addressed. 
    Regards,  
    
    Ed Foote RPT 
    http://www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/index.html
    www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/well_tempered_piano.html
     
    


  • 2.  Loss and Piano Tuning ( was: hearing etc.)

    Posted 05-07-2006 14:35
    From Conrad Hoffsommer <hoffsoco@luther.edu>
    
    Ed,
    
    At 14:10 5/7/2006, you wrote:
    >HOWEVER !,  I have spoken to numerous techs and former techs that had to
    >leave the tuning and rebuilding business because of joint problems, 
    >repetitive
    >stress problems, tendonitis, carpal tunnel problems, etc.  and I 
    >have heard very,
    >very, little about protecting against these things.
    >      Worry about our hearing is misplaced if we ignore the 
    > mechanical dangers
    >of our work.  I would suggest that a better expense than custom ear plugs
    >would be a yoga course, or a physical trainer or therapist that 
    >could diagnose
    >our posture, ergonomic habits, and flexibility capacity.  That is 
    >where the more
    >likely danger will be addressed.
    >Regards,
    >
    >Ed Foote RPT
    
    
    
    This topic comes around from time to time, so there should be 
    beaucoup stuff in the archives.  I just checked my "attach" file and 
    found a picture I'd sent in Feb 2001.
    
    I had bi-lateral carpal surgery 20 years ago, but after surgery, I 
    changed my evil ways, started using a thumper, wearing elastic wrist 
    bands and am still working...
    
    
    
    Conrad Hoffsommer
    You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be 
    misquoted, then used against you.
    


  • 3.  Loss and Piano Tuning ( was: hearing etc.)

    Posted 05-07-2006 16:18
    From "pianotune05" <pianotune05@comcast.net>
    
    Conrad, 
    What is a thumper?  Is that something used to strike the key?
    Marshall
    


  • 4.  Loss and Piano Tuning ( was: hearing etc.)

    Posted 05-07-2006 16:53
    From "Farrell" <mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com>
    
    


  • 5.  Loss and Piano Tuning ( was: hearing etc.)

    Posted 05-07-2006 20:02
    From "pianotune05" <pianotune05@comcast.net>
    
    I have some old hammers from actions I could use. I imagine the black material in the middle is electrical tape right?
    Marshall
      


  • 6.  Loss and Piano Tuning ( was: hearing etc.)

    Posted 05-08-2006 06:21
      |   view attached
    From Conrad Hoffsommer <hoffsoco@luther.edu>
    
    At 05:18 PM 5/7/2006 -0500, you wrote:
    >Conrad, What is a thumper?  Is that something used to strike the key?
    >Marshall
    >


  • 7.  Loss and Piano Tuning ( was: hearing etc.)

    Posted 05-07-2006 18:33
    From "alan forsyth" <alan@forsythalan.wanadoo.co.uk>
    
    Good Grief! What do customers think of these creatures called piano techs 
    who arrive with thumpers, elastic bands, hearing aids, and in the case of 
    the "Thump", goggles, gas masks and space suits. What happened to the tuner 
    who arrived with just a guide dog in tow?
    
    AF
    
    


  • 8.  Loss and Piano Tuning ( was: hearing etc.)

    Posted 05-07-2006 19:11
    From John Ross <jrpiano@win.eastlink.ca>
    
    Alan, I think the guide dogs lead. :-)
    John M. Ross
    Windsor, Nova Scotia, Canada.
    jrpiano@win.eastlink.ca
    


  • 9.  Loss and Piano Tuning ( was: hearing etc.)

    Posted 05-07-2006 20:00
    From Conrad Hoffsommer <hoffsoco@luther.edu>
    
    At 19:33 5/7/2006, you wrote:
    >Good Grief! What do customers think of these creatures called piano 
    >techs who arrive with thumpers, elastic bands, hearing aids, and in 
    >the case of the "Thump", goggles, gas masks and space suits. What 
    >happened to the tuner who arrived with just a guide dog in tow?
    >
    >AF
    
    
    You would be following the dog, as John pointed out. What you might 
    (in the future if not now already) need to be towing is a 
    joined-at-the-wallet lawyer.
    
    
    
    Conrad Hoffsommer
    You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be 
    misquoted, then used against you.
    


  • 10.  Loss and Piano Tuning ( was: hearing etc.)

    Posted 05-07-2006 21:30
    From "DIANE HOFSTETTER" <dianepianotuner@msn.com>
    
    Ed,
    
    I definitely agree with you that we have to be concerned with " joint 
    problems, repetitive
    stress problems, tendonitis, carpal tunnel problems, etc", as I have had 
    problems with my left hand and arm.  However, I don't think that means we 
    shouldn't be concerned about our hearing.
    
    All of our faculties are important to us!
    
    Just some of the techs we know about who have had problems with hearing: 
    Brent Fischer, RPT;  Rich Snelson; Hans Troost;  Bob Hofstetter, RTT (he's 
    why I do this work--the tuning AND the hearing research).
    
    
    
    Diane Hofstetter
    
    
    
    
    


  • 11.  Loss and Piano Tuning ( was: hearing etc.)

    Posted 05-09-2006 12:06
    From "Fenton Murray" <fmurray@cruzio.com>
    
    Diane,
    I appreciate your research and study on this. Also, for bringing it to our
    collective attention. I am slowly starting to use the pro plugs I got from
    you more when I tune, hearing protection in the shop is now standard ops.
    Hearing protection is just one aspect of a safety first approach to our
    occupation. Very important.
    Fenton
    


  • 12.  Loss and Piano Tuning ( was: hearing etc.)

    Posted 05-07-2006 22:16
    From "Dave McKibben" <davespianotuning@earthlink.net>
    
    Ed:
    
    That is a very good point you make.
    I suppose we can't take anything for granted, be it hearing or our physical
    body, however it is just too easy to forget about until a problem shows up.
    I guess that is how we mortal humans do things, but speaking from a body
    that hurts right now, I wish this on nobody.
    For anyone who is lucky enough not to be in pain, please dont take it for
    granted.
    Do regular stretching, excersize, ice down sore joints, observe good
    ergonomics, be proactive etc etc.  Your body has to last a lifetime :)
    Again.........VERY good point Ed.
    
    Dave McKibben
    
    > [Original Message]
    > From: pianotune05 <pianotune05@comcast.net>
    > To: Pianotech List <pianotech@ptg.org>
    > Date: 5/7/2006 3:18:22 PM
    > Subject: Re: Loss and Piano Tuning ( was: hearing etc.)
    >
    > Conrad, 
    > What is a thumper?  Is that something used to strike the key?
    > Marshall
    > 


  • 13.  Loss and Piano Tuning ( was: hearing etc.)

    Posted 05-08-2006 05:08
    From A440A@aol.com
    
    Diane  writes:
    
    << Just some of the techs we know about who have had problems with hearing: 
    Brent Fischer, RPT;  Rich Snelson; Hans Troost;  Bob Hofstetter, RTT (he's 
    why I do this work--the tuning AND the hearing research). >>
    
    Hell's bells!  Add me to the list.  I have a 35 db. loss in my left ear at 4K 
    (oh, the dove and duck hunting I did as a youth was well worth it,too)  and 
    when voicing, I use a Digifocus hearing aid that is tuned to match the 
    descending ramp on my audiogram.  I can still tune aurally, but it was becoming a lot 
    of effort in that last five notes.  
       I have been told that it will be progressive,  I now wear plugs when 
    involved with a lot of activities.  My point was that even though I have some 
    hearing loss, in the last 14 years  I have had a carpal tunnel release, three 
    rotator cuff surgeries, and a fasciotomy in an elbow.  Tendonitis is always 
    hovering in the background, and the osteoarthritis across my left knuckles reminds me 
    of everything from the long nights tuning practise room Grinell Bros uprights 
    to the recalcitrant Baldwins that I used to pound into submission.  
         In talking to many techs, it appears to most give no thought to 
    pre-tuning warm up, stretching, and how to lessen the damage of doing the same thing 
    over and over and over and over and over and over ........ C88,  whew, where's 
    my check?  
           I have had to learn how to ergonomically take care of myself or the 
    hearing wouldn't matter. 
    Thanks for the note. 
     
    Ed Foote RPT 
    http://www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/index.html
    www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/well_tempered_piano.html
     
    


  • 14.  Loss and Piano Tuning ( was: hearing etc.)

    Posted 05-08-2006 06:20
    From "Leslie Bartlett" <l-bartlett@sbcglobal.net>
    
    Where's my name on the list???????
    les bartlett 
    
    


  • 15.  Loss and Piano Tuning ( was: hearing etc.)

    Posted 05-08-2006 08:18
    From "John Fortiner" <jlfortiner@gmail.com>
    
    Conrad - Have you noticed how slippery that felt can be against plastic
    keytops??  Try gluing a small piece of buckskin on the end of the felt.
    Goodby slipperiness.......
    
    John Fortiner 
    
    


  • 16.  Loss and Piano Tuning ( was: hearing etc.)

    Posted 05-08-2006 12:02
    From Conrad Hoffsommer <hoffsoco@luther.edu>
    
    At 08:17 AM 5/8/2006 -0600, you wrote:
    >Conrad - Have you noticed how slippery that felt can be against plastic
    >keytops??
    
    
    Not really. I'm usually hitting it pretty much vertical, but I see your point.
    
    
    >Try gluing a small piece of buckskin on the end of the felt.
    >Goodby slipperiness.......
    >
    >John Fortiner
    
    
    Like certain things pertaining to a famous make, that slipperiness might 
    just be a "feature".  If it squirts out due to a non-perpendicular blow, it 
    goes away from the palm of my hand. If it grabbed, it might create some 
    torque to my thumb/wrist...
    
    Either way, I've been using this, successfully, for years and would be 
    reluctant to fix something which doesn't appear to me to be a 
    flaw.  Teaching an old dog, like me, new tricks would not be time well 
    spent... ;-}
    
    
    
    
    Conrad Hoffsommer
    
    All I ask is a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
    


  • 17.  Loss and Piano Tuning ( was: hearing etc.)

    Posted 05-08-2006 19:01
    From Kenneth Jankura <kenrpt@earthlink.net>
    
    Conrad,
    
    Why don't you add a piece of elastic to your thumper so you don't  
    have to use any muscles to hold it.
    It works for me. I've done the "Newton Hunt" style thumper for years  
    and it is fantastic.
    My 'thumper' is 7//16" x 3/4", about 5" long, small piece of hammer  
    felt glued to the bottom end,
    with a thumbtack on the top end holding both ends of a piece of thin  
    elastic about 10" long.
    The loop of elastic goes around the back of your hand and back around  
    the wood.
    It stays on your hand and you can do any checks you want.
    I wear it on my left hand, and can play any music (I am able to play)  
    with it still attached to my hand.
    I can check fifths, octaves, and tenths (i have big hands) with the  
    'thumper' attached.
    I have the shaft long enough that you can still pound a acrosonic  
    that has the 'see the keys or see the hammers' type fallboard
    (where I keep the fallboard 1/2 closed).
    The reason the thumper shaft is is rectangular is so that it makes it  
    easy to rotate it in your hand to get a really great shot at the sharps.
    I had made a cool one out of some rare tropical wood on my lathe and  
    then promptly lost it, so now it's a scrap piece of wood I'll never  
    lose.
    On grands at the top end, I position it between my ring and pinky  
    finger, when I stand off to the right to get the top couple octaves.
    Seems to work for me.
    As for adding weight to the thumper, whatever for!!
    Drop your relaxed arm straight down from 3" with 'thumper' attached  
    and that is probably the strongest  test blow you'll ever need.
    Relaxed is the operative word.
    I wish i could take a picture and send it, but I just ain't got the  
    chops.
    
    BTW, I've been off the list for probably two years, just started  
    lurking again.
    Life is good, I just got married (again), and I'm glad to be back.
    All you guys rule, see you in Rochester.
    
    Ken Jankura, RPT
    Fayetteville. PA
    
    On May 8, 2006, at 2:02 PM, Conrad Hoffsommer wrote:
    
    > At 08:17 AM 5/8/2006 -0600, you wrote:
    >> Conrad - Have you noticed how slippery that felt can be against  
    >> plastic
    >> keytops??
    >
    >
    > Not really. I'm usually hitting it pretty much vertical, but I see  
    > your point.
    >
    >
    >> Try gluing a small piece of buckskin on the end of the felt.
    >> Goodby slipperiness.......
    >>
    >> John Fortiner
    >
    >
    > Like certain things pertaining to a famous make, that slipperiness  
    > might just be a "feature".  If it squirts out due to a non- 
    > perpendicular blow, it goes away from the palm of my hand. If it  
    > grabbed, it might create some torque to my thumb/wrist...
    >
    > Either way, I've been using this, successfully, for years and would  
    > be reluctant to fix something which doesn't appear to me to be a  
    > flaw.  Teaching an old dog, like me, new tricks would not be time  
    > well spent... ;-}
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Conrad Hoffsommer
    >
    > All I ask is a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
    >
    


  • 18.  Loss and Piano Tuning ( was: hearing etc.)

    Posted 05-08-2006 20:44
    From Bob Hull <hullfam5@yahoo.com>
    
    Don't forget the high importance of a diet that majors
    on foods that will keep tendons, muscles and bones
    healthy.  Even your vegetables will not be as
    beneficial if you've cooked them and killed the
    enzymes.  High intake of meat or protein will deplete
    the calcium from your bones. It's not just how we do
    our physical activity but also what we put in our tank
    that will determine how far we can go.
    
    Bob Hull 
    
    
    --- Dave McKibben <davespianotuning@earthlink.net>
    wrote:
    
    > 
    > Ed:
    > 
    > That is a very good point you make.
    > I suppose we can't take anything for granted, be it
    > hearing or our physical
    > body, however it is just too easy to forget about
    > until a problem shows up.
    > I guess that is how we mortal humans do things, but
    > speaking from a body
    > that hurts right now, I wish this on nobody.
    > For anyone who is lucky enough not to be in pain,
    > please dont take it for
    > granted.
    > Do regular stretching, excersize, ice down sore
    > joints, observe good
    > ergonomics, be proactive etc etc.  Your body has to
    > last a lifetime :)
    > Again.........VERY good point Ed.
    > 
    > Dave McKibben
    > 
    > > [Original Message]
    > > From: pianotune05 <pianotune05@comcast.net>
    > > To: Pianotech List <pianotech@ptg.org>
    > > Date: 5/7/2006 3:18:22 PM
    > > Subject: Re: Loss and Piano Tuning ( was: hearing
    > etc.)
    > >
    > > Conrad, 
    > > What is a thumper?  Is that something used to
    > strike the key?
    > > Marshall
    > > 


  • 19.  Loss and Piano Tuning ( was: hearing etc.)

    Posted 05-08-2006 21:35
    From "pianotune05" <pianotune05@comcast.net>
    
    avoid the white bread & too much sugar as well.  Ive never heard of protein 
    killing calcium. Maybe that's why we've heard growing up not eat milk and 
    meat together.   Wouldnt it be interesting if the PTG had a diet plan book 
    for piano techs?
    Marshall
    


  • 20.  Loss and Piano Tuning ( was: hearing etc.)

    Posted 05-09-2006 07:56
    From Erwinspiano@aol.com
    
    Bob
      Then we should consider tha eating for our blood type as well. The  FDA one 
    size fits all diet plan doesn't work the same for all blood  types. IE. I'm t
    ype O which thrives on red meat, the  right fats,protiens of all kinds  & 
    practically no wheat.  It  makes me sluggish.
      Food for thought
      Dale
    
    Don't  forget the high importance of a diet that majors
    on foods that will keep  tendons, muscles and bones
    healthy.  Even your vegetables will not be  as
    beneficial if you've cooked them and killed  the
    enzymes.  High intake of meat or protein will  deplete
    the calcium from your bones. It's not just how we  do
    our physical activity but also what we put in our tank
    that will  determine how far we can go.
    
    Bob Hull 
    
    
     
    


  • 21.  Loss and Piano Tuning ( was: hearing etc.)

    Posted 05-09-2006 10:12
    From JBairdRPT@cs.com
    
    >Why don't you add a piece of elastic to your thumper so you don't 
    >have to use any muscles to hold it.
    >It works for me. 
    
    My occasional wrist tendonitis is greatly relieved by a home made striking 
    device (see photos below).
    
    Wearing a wrist brace by itself (available at medical supply 
    stores) does not relieve much of the impact stress on the wrist tendons. But 
    gluing a felt striker onto the brace directly under the wrist, relieves all of 
    the pressure, and feels very good. It even feels like a massage. The brace 
    has a metal bar that distributes the impact over several inches along the 
    underside of your wrist. 
    
    Since this prosthesis places your hand farther forward, it is best to remove 
    the fallboard.
    
    Photos attached.
    1) felt striker
    2) wrist brace striker - casual
    3) wrist brace striker - formal
    
    
    [Photos at:]
    
    http://tinyurl.com/euyr
    
    http://tinyurl.com/euys
    
    http://tinyurl.com/euyw
    
    John Baird 
    


  • 22.  Loss and Piano Tuning ( was: hearing etc.)

    Posted 05-09-2006 11:02
    From "Farrell" <mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com>
    
    Interesting, but don't you mash your knuckles into the stretcher when you play sharps?
    
    Terry Farrell
      


  • 23.  Loss and Piano Tuning ( was: hearing etc.)

    Posted 05-22-2006 21:43
    From carlteplitski <koko99@shaw.ca>
    
    Good point ! Knew a fellow tech. who passed away at 91, and could still 
    tune, but physically too
    taxing. It was also quite hard to carry a conversation with him, as you 
    were often repeating yourself,
    because he didn't hear well , but he could hear intervals and beats. How 
    does one splain that ???
    
    Carl / Winnipeg
    
    
    A440A@aol.com wrote:
    
    >Robert writes: 
    ><< Thanks a lot for your comments Andrew. I will defintely look into getting 
    >ear plugs. Not only do I want to prevent any damage to my ears as a result of 
    >tuning pianos, but I don't want my hearing to be degraded as a musician either 
    >since I play piano recitals and attend lots of concerts.  >>
    >
    >Greetings, 
    >       It is interesting that we, as tuner/techs, worry so much about our 
    >hearing.  I don't think I have ever met someone that had to leave the business 
    >because of hearing problems.  
    >
    >HOWEVER !,  I have spoken to numerous techs and former techs that had to 
    >leave the tuning and rebuilding business because of joint problems, repetitive 
    >stress problems, tendonitis, carpal tunnel problems, etc.  and I have heard very, 
    >very, little about protecting against these things.  
    >     Worry about our hearing is misplaced if we ignore the mechanical dangers 
    >of our work.  I would suggest that a better expense than custom ear plugs 
    >would be a yoga course, or a physical trainer or therapist that could diagnose 
    >our posture, ergonomic habits, and flexibility capacity.  That is where the more 
    >likely danger will be addressed. 
    >Regards,  
    >
    >Ed Foote RPT 
    >http://www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/index.html
    >www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/well_tempered_piano.html
    > 
    >
    >  
    >
    


  • 24.  Loss and Piano Tuning ( was: hearing etc.)

    Posted 05-23-2006 11:39
    From "J. R. White" <jrwhiteltd@msn.com>
    
    One of my clients, a physician, explained to me that hearing is the last
    sense to fade away, and that pitch-acuity almost invariably remains as sharp
    as ever unless one becomes absolutely stone deaf.  It's tragic, in my view,
    when elderly people believe their hearing is fouled up when they hear their
    pianos sounding badly.  These dear folks need to be assured that we can hear
    the same bad sounds that they hear, that it is the pianos, not their ears,
    which need help.  
    My physician-client also told me that nurses and other caregivers very often
    talk or read to patients who are dying, and keep on reading until well after
    the patients seem to be deceased, even for a few minutes after breathing
    stops.  
    The thought among medical professionals currently seems to be that patients
    can hear just as well following the instant of death as they could a few
    minutes prior to it.
    I've had many doctors soberly express this thought to me.
    Interesting!
    J R W
    
    jrwhiteltd@msn.com
    (253) 922-2372