PianoTech Archive

  • 1.  GH1 - pitch lock?

    Posted 09-24-2012 08:11
      |   view attached 
    From Ron Koval <drwoodwind@hotmail.com>

I finally have come face-to-face with what has been written about for years..
An "icky" Yamaha GH1, with the untunable group of plain wire notes in
the lower tenor section. ?I know I've tuned a couple of GH1's in the past,
but none were this terrible at the break. ?B is the lowest plain wire, and from
there up to about Eb, they couldn't ever sound decent with the octave above.

I realize that there are better, more permanent, costly options, but I wanted to give
this a try for a church where I rehearse with a men's chorus...

I pulled out my little canister of pitch lock clips and went to work on the?
bridge side of the strings - closer to the bridge has a minimal effect, while
further into the speaking length has a more dramatic effect. ?The unison can
be "tuned" by moving the clips - the further from the bridge, the flatter the?
pitch.

It is really, "less bad" than before. ?The downside is that the only way to?
tune those strings now is with all three sounding - a nightmare! That, or maybe
sliding the pitch locks up and down. ?I'll be experimenting as the weather changes...

Ron Koval


  • 2.  GH1 - pitch lock?

    Posted 09-24-2012 08:31 
    From Ron Nossaman <rnossaman@cox.net>

On 9/24/2012 9:10 AM, Ron Koval wrote:

> I pulled out my little canister of pitch lock clips and went to work on the
> bridge side of the strings - closer to the bridge has a minimal effect, while
> further into the speaking length has a more dramatic effect.  The unison can
> be "tuned" by moving the clips - the further from the bridge, the flatter the
> pitch.

That follows. What you're doing is effectively adding mass to the 
speaking length, requiring more string tension to get the pitch back up. 
This increases the break%. Since the basic problem with these things, 
among others, is a low break% in the low tenor, this makes it less bad.


> It is really, "less bad" than before.  The downside is that the only way to
> tune those strings now is with all three sounding - a nightmare! That, or maybe
> sliding the pitch locks up and down.  I'll be experimenting as the weather changes...

Let the owner know what you're doing, and maybe after a couple of panic 
service calls, funds will become available to put in some wrapped 
bichords down there.

Ron N


  • 3.  GH1 - pitch lock?

    Posted 09-24-2012 08:50 
    From Al Guecia/Allied PianoCraft <alliedpianocraft@hotmail.com>

How many would you suggest? (guess-timate)

Al -
High Point, NC


On Sep 24, 2012, at 10:30 AM, Ron Nossaman <rnossaman@cox.net> wrote:

On 9/24/2012 9:10 AM, Ron Koval wrote:

> I pulled out my little canister of pitch lock clips and went to work on the
> bridge side of the strings - closer to the bridge has a minimal effect, while
> further into the speaking length has a more dramatic effect.  The unison can
> be "tuned" by moving the clips - the further from the bridge, the flatter the
> pitch.

That follows. What you're doing is effectively adding mass to the speaking length, requiring more string tension to get the pitch back up. This increases the break%. Since the basic problem with these things, among others, is a low break% in the low tenor, this makes it less bad.


> It is really, "less bad" than before.  The downside is that the only way to
> tune those strings now is with all three sounding - a nightmare! That, or maybe
> sliding the pitch locks up and down.  I'll be experimenting as the weather changes...

Let the owner know what you're doing, and maybe after a couple of panic service calls, funds will become available to put in some wrapped bichords down there.

Ron N


  • 4.  GH1 - pitch lock?

    Posted 09-24-2012 08:50 
    From John Formsma <formsma@gmail.com>

The first thing that comes to my mind is will another technician realize
the Pitchlocks are there? It's fine as long as you're the only one tuning
it, but someone else might not notice them at first.

What about putting them close to the agraffe so they're more visible?

I've had good results with using Pitchlocks on some Steinways with lots of
front duplex noises. (On Steinway D's the C6-E6 area can be pretty awful.)
And have used them on bass bichords a time or two.

-- 
John Formsma, RPT
Blue Mountain, MS


On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 9:10 AM, Ron Koval <drwoodwind@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> I finally have come face-to-face with what has been written about for
> years..
> An "icky" Yamaha GH1, with the untunable group of plain wire notes in
> the lower tenor section.  I know I've tuned a couple of GH1's in the past,
> but none were this terrible at the break.  B is the lowest plain wire, and
> from
> there up to about Eb, they couldn't ever sound decent with the octave
> above.
>
> I realize that there are better, more permanent, costly options, but I
> wanted to give
> this a try for a church where I rehearse with a men's chorus...
>
> I pulled out my little canister of pitch lock clips and went to work on
> the
> bridge side of the strings - closer to the bridge has a minimal effect,
> while
> further into the speaking length has a more dramatic effect.  The unison
> can
> be "tuned" by moving the clips - the further from the bridge, the flatter
> the
> pitch.
>
> It is really, "less bad" than before.  The downside is that the only way
> to
> tune those strings now is with all three sounding - a nightmare! That, or
> maybe
> sliding the pitch locks up and down.  I'll be experimenting as the weather
> changes...
>
> Ron Koval


  • 5.  GH1 - pitch lock?

    Posted 09-25-2012 23:34 
    From "Carl" <koko99@shaw.ca>

Would be nice see a couple of pics of this.

CT 
  
    
                                                
    
					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
    
                                                
    
                                                    
                                                        
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  • 6.  GH1 - pitch lock?

    Posted 09-26-2012 06:07 
    From John Formsma <formsma@gmail.com>

Carl,

Are you wanting pictures of Pitchlocks on the front duplex?

If so, the Pitchlock.com website has them.

http://pitchlock.com/pitch-lock-string-couplers/


-- 
John Formsma, RPT
Blue Mountain, MS


On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 12:34 AM, Carl <koko99@shaw.ca> wrote:

> **
> Would be nice see a couple of pics of this.
>
> CT
>
> 
    
                                                
    
					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
    
                                                
    
                                                    
                                                        
                                                        Original Message


  • 7.  GH1 - pitch lock?

    Posted 09-26-2012 12:19 
    From "Carl" <koko99@shaw.ca>

Thanks John,  much appreciated.

CT
  
    
                                                
    
					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
    
                                                
    
                                                    
                                                        
                                                        Original Message


  • 8.  GH1 - pitch lock?

    Posted 09-24-2012 11:43 
    From Ron Koval <drwoodwind@hotmail.com>

In addition to the increase in mass, there is the direct connection between the strings
in the sounding portion - in practice, it does force them into a unified pitch...

This is an experimental approach - clipping all three strings together that far
from the endpoint. ?A byproduct of the traditional pitch lock treatment is a slight
dulling of tone of the two connected strings - what I did helped get rid of the?
"twang", and result in a more stable pitch throughout the sustain.

Don't read me wrong, it's still bad, just not horrible now!

This is one of those situations where the owner(s) don't hear a problem, other
than the piano going out of tune quickly with the change in temp and humidity.
It's in a church on the south side of the sanctuary and gets baked by the sun...
(I'm gonna try and work on that!)

Ron Koval


Ron N wrote:
That follows. What you're doing is effectively adding mass to the 
speaking length, requiring more string tension to get the pitch back up. 
This increases the break%. Since the basic problem with these things, 
among others, is a low break% in the low tenor, this makes it less bad.


  • 9.  GH1 - pitch lock?

    Posted 09-24-2012 11:59 
    From Ron Nossaman <rnossaman@cox.net>

On 9/24/2012 12:42 PM, Ron Koval wrote:
>
> In addition to the increase in mass, there is the direct connection between the strings
> in the sounding portion - in practice, it does force them into a unified pitch...

Yes, but the problem is low break% in the low tenor. The strings are too 
short and the tensions too low. That's why wrapped strings improve the 
tone down there. You've tied strings together. Since they don't move 
exactly in sync, each effectively adds it's mass to the other, which 
lowers pitch, and increases break% when they are pulled back up to pitch.

Ron N