Pianotech

The thread on skidboard clamps has transformed into a discussion about moving vehicles and their set-up, which I would like to continue.

I was seriously considering getting a trailer, but I decided against it primarily because we have severe winters where I am, and driving a trailer in two feet of snow or slick ice didn't seem like the safest option. The Sprinter is only rear-wheel drive, but with good snow tires I am hoping it will be OK.

Right now the back of the van has tie-down rings on the side walls, but the wall between the cargo area and the driver's area is too thin to tie down to. Do you think it would be a problem to strap a piano only to the side wall? In the past, I have always used vehicles that were set up so that I could put a piano in the front corner and strap it to the front and side wall.

Also, the wheel well comes into the cargo area, which would cause a problem strapping in larger grand pianos. So I intend to put in at least one extra wall anyway.

------------------------------
Peter Stevenson RPT
P.S. Piano Service
Prince George BC
250-562-5358
ps@pspianoservice.com
------------------------------

Hi Peter,

For 15 years, I used a trailer with an extra high door to accommodate players and uprights.  I just didn't move pianos if the roads were too bad.  I would suggest that you consider having E-Track welded or bolted to the sides of whatever vehicle for tying instruments down.  Consider placing one track about 18" from the floor and another 48" up.  This allows a criss-cross  pattern of strapping for maximum safety.

------------------------------
Stephen Grattan
Port Huron MI
810-984-2757
------------------------------

Hello again Peter.

Regarding your wheel well ruining your cargo area, at one time (a previous setup) I rigged up a horizontal cross member on the side wall that matched the wheel well.  It mated up with the piano's back for verticals and the padded lid on grands mounted on skids.  It locked into place with E clips mating up with the E strips on the wall. 

Like Stephen I had a trailer custom made and have been very pleased with it's performance and likewise, snow and ice are factors to be considered.  I'm so glad I don't have to drive on that stuff any more.

I tried the rental circuit and was totally displeased with the "setup and tear down" time as well as the image I instill on the customer as I pull up with a rented vehicle.  I feel my trailer has been a very worthwhile investment that has all the advantages of being cost effective and productive.

I found an 05 Dodge pickup (that snorts when you turn the key, fuel injected HEMI) for a great price and replaced the 86 Dodge i used to have.  A 3/4 ton chassis handles a piano plus a trailer far better than the lighter trucks increasing safety on the road.  This combination could be used to move pianos from higher platforms like mobile homes, freight docks, truck trailers, and in one case, someone's back deck.  I disconnect the trailer once on location and back only the truck up to the "point of contact".  Once the piano is on the truck and secured, I drive the truck those few feet to the trailer and ramp it into the trailer.  To keep the front of the trailer from going airborne during this process, I ordered stands that are found under the rear of the trailer.  They pivot down into position and self adjust to a variety of levels.

 

My 8 foot ramp would serve as a moderate incline into the trailer.

It has interior lighting for the dark times of year and night moves and a 6 foot 6 inch ceiling.  The E strips I had mounted at about 28 inches and 40 inches  .....  I think.  If I had it to do again I'd include a third at about 48 inches or so.  No need for a spare tire as long as you only have one flat at a time.

For the generic moves we've all done every week, the back door of the trailer lowers and acts as a ramp.  With the wheels outside the cargo area, there's no annoying loss of cargo space inside.

 

A properly cut piece of wood can be placed at the hinge to fill the gap during the move.  I had the hinged flap at the closest point in the image added by the manufacturer.  This back door set up can be used to eliminate some incline and I've been known to take along some concrete blocks, pavers, or wood scraps to do the final leveling at some locations.

I had the trailer equipped with double axles for more controllable backing and smoother over the road behavior in general.  Additionally only one set of wheels has electric brakes.  I think the ball is 2 5/16.  Go with the biggest you can.  The entire load is being controlled by the slimmest part of that ball.  ALWAYS HOOK UP YOUR CHAINS.

I'll be keeping this trailer even after I'm done moving pianos because ...  OMG you should see the pretty girls i get to help on moving day!!  The last one hired out the heavy part, so all I did was help load the trailer securely and drive the beast to and fro.  Hmmm and SHE bought the pizza and beer!!  Works for me!!

------------------------------
Larry Fisher
Owner, Chief Grunt, Head Hosehead
Vancouver WA
360-256-2999
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-07-2015 11:18
From: Stephen Grattan
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

Hi Peter,

For 15 years, I used a trailer with an extra high door to accommodate players and uprights.  I just didn't move pianos if the roads were too bad.  I would suggest that you consider having E-Track welded or bolted to the sides of whatever vehicle for tying instruments down.  Consider placing one track about 18" from the floor and another 48" up.  This allows a criss-cross  pattern of strapping for maximum safety.

------------------------------
Stephen Grattan
Port Huron MI
810-984-2757
------------------------------

------Original Message------

The thread on skidboard clamps has transformed into a discussion about moving vehicles and their set-up, which I would like to continue.

I was seriously considering getting a trailer, but I decided against it primarily because we have severe winters where I am, and driving a trailer in two feet of snow or slick ice didn't seem like the safest option. The Sprinter is only rear-wheel drive, but with good snow tires I am hoping it will be OK.

Right now the back of the van has tie-down rings on the side walls, but the wall between the cargo area and the driver's area is too thin to tie down to. Do you think it would be a problem to strap a piano only to the side wall? In the past, I have always used vehicles that were set up so that I could put a piano in the front corner and strap it to the front and side wall.

Also, the wheel well comes into the cargo area, which would cause a problem strapping in larger grand pianos. So I intend to put in at least one extra wall anyway.

------------------------------
Peter Stevenson RPT
P.S. Piano Service
Prince George BC
250-562-5358
ps@pspianoservice.com
------------------------------

Yes, I was planning on putting in e-track on my new wall(s).

Regarding ramp length: it is often nice to back up to a house and put the ramp on top of the front steps. However, I understand that some ramps are designed for specific height ranges, so it can be problematic to have the ramps at too shallow an angle. In that case, I would think that a shorter ramp might be better to allow a greater range of loading options.

------------------------------
Peter Stevenson RPT
P.S. Piano Service
Prince George BC
250-562-5358
ps@pspianoservice.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-07-2015 11:29
From: Greg Newell
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

Have e-track installed! Seriously!!!

 

Greg

 

Greg Newell

Greg's Piano Forte'

www.gregspianoforte.com

greg@gregspianoforte.com

216-226-3791 (office)

216-470-8634 (mobile)

 

 

 

My 5x8' trailer has a bed 16" high (easy load). There are three E-Tracks each side, 12', 32". 48" from the deck. My two ramps are 6', 7'. My new car (2014 Escape) has all wheel drive and it is no problem driving in the snow, where my old front wheel drive (2007 Escape) couldn't get up the driveway with the trailer in snow. My son took over the 207 and I used my new new car to pull my old car with trailer attached up my driveway in the snow.

Ramp length will depend on the height of the deck. If you are going to loading docks, then you'll need something close to a 4' height.

Don't forget the Moon Dog Piano Tilter.

http://www.moondogmanufacturing.com

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

Wow, 16" is pretty low; that's nice. My Sprinter is 28". Before I bought this van I was using one that was 34" with a 10" ramp and it was easy enough to load in and out. I checked in with New Haven about their ramps, and it turns out that their fibreglass ramps have a minimum load height, but not their aluminum ones.

BTW, I do have a Moondog tilter. I'll be using it next week to help a long-distance moving company get a grand piano packed up in their truck.

------------------------------
Peter Stevenson RPT
P.S. Piano Service
Prince George BC
250-562-5358
ps@pspianoservice.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-07-2015 12:18
From: Jon Page
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

My 5x8' trailer has a bed 16" high (easy load). There are three E-Tracks each side, 12', 32". 48" from the deck. My two ramps are 6', 7'. My new car (2014 Escape) has all wheel drive and it is no problem driving in the snow, where my old front wheel drive (2007 Escape) couldn't get up the driveway with the trailer in snow. My son took over the 207 and I used my new new car to pull my old car with trailer attached up my driveway in the snow.

Ramp length will depend on the height of the deck. If you are going to loading docks, then you'll need something close to a 4' height.

Don't forget the Moon Dog Piano Tilter.

http://www.moondogmanufacturing.com

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

I've used Ford F150 pickups (4 so far) for piano moving for about 42 years. Before that, I rented UHaul trailers. I use the same truck for my everyday vehicle because I have no parking for a trailer. A pickup works very well for pianos if you put a piece of plywood on the bed and another on the gate. Accessory tiedowns hold the piano straight using ordinary rope. The wood lasts about 8-10 years outdoors. I use a 7.5 foot Melcher fiberglass ramp which is rated at 4,000 pounds. It does not slip off the tailgate, and it works well for steps. The nice part is we can often back the truck up to the porch and go straight out with the piano. I used a plywood ramp for several years, but it was too flimsy. I also use the PianoHorse grand tilter, which is a great design. No bolts or clamps needed, and it fits virtually every grand except AMPICO players. Too bad it's no longer made. Another necessary helper is an aluminum curb ramp. This system has worked well for the thousands of pianos we've moved. 

Phil

------------------------------
Philip Jamison
Philip Jamison Pianos
WEST CHESTER PA
610-696-8449
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-07-2015 12:55
From: Peter Stevenson
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

Wow, 16" is pretty low; that's nice. My Sprinter is 28". Before I bought this van I was using one that was 34" with a 10" ramp and it was easy enough to load in and out. I checked in with New Haven about their ramps, and it turns out that their fibreglass ramps have a minimum load height, but not their aluminum ones.

BTW, I do have a Moondog tilter. I'll be using it next week to help a long-distance moving company get a grand piano packed up in their truck.

------------------------------
Peter Stevenson RPT
P.S. Piano Service
Prince George BC
250-562-5358
ps@pspianoservice.com
------------------------------



Original Message:
Sent: 07-07-2015 12:18
From: Jon Page
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

My 5x8' trailer has a bed 16" high (easy load). There are three E-Tracks each side, 12', 32". 48" from the deck. My two ramps are 6', 7'. My new car (2014 Escape) has all wheel drive and it is no problem driving in the snow, where my old front wheel drive (2007 Escape) couldn't get up the driveway with the trailer in snow. My son took over the 207 and I used my new new car to pull my old car with trailer attached up my driveway in the snow.

Ramp length will depend on the height of the deck. If you are going to loading docks, then you'll need something close to a 4' height.

Don't forget the Moon Dog Piano Tilter.

http://www.moondogmanufacturing.com

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

------Original Message------

Yes, I was planning on putting in e-track on my new wall(s).

Regarding ramp length: it is often nice to back up to a house and put the ramp on top of the front steps. However, I understand that some ramps are designed for specific height ranges, so it can be problematic to have the ramps at too shallow an angle. In that case, I would think that a shorter ramp might be better to allow a greater range of loading options.

------------------------------
Peter Stevenson RPT
P.S. Piano Service
Prince George BC
250-562-5358
ps@pspianoservice.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-07-2015 11:29
From: Greg Newell
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

Have e-track installed! Seriously!!!

 

Greg

 

Greg Newell

Greg's Piano Forte'

www.gregspianoforte.com

greg@gregspianoforte.com

216-226-3791 (office)

216-470-8634 (mobile)

 

 

 

Greg,

The piano horse is no longer being manufactured.

Roger Gable

Moondog Manufacturing

------------------------------
Roger Gable
Gable Piano
Everett WA
425-252-5000
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-07-2015 12:25
From: Greg Newell
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

I have a 7' steel ramp that serves me quite well most of the time. I also carry a 14' fiberglass ramp for those extreme situations. Sometimes I find it easiest to ramp from one ramp to another. The truck also has a 12' ramp tucked under the box.

 

------Original Message------

Greg,

The piano horse is no longer being manufactured.

Roger Gable

Moondog Manufacturing

------------------------------
Roger Gable
Gable Piano
Everett WA
425-252-5000
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-07-2015 12:25
From: Greg Newell
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

I have a 7' steel ramp that serves me quite well most of the time. I also carry a 14' fiberglass ramp for those extreme situations. Sometimes I find it easiest to ramp from one ramp to another. The truck also has a 12' ramp tucked under the box.

 

Including a shot of the inside of my trailer. Extra foot tall, e-track installed at the factory for nominal cost. I have never regretted getting doors instead of a ramp. MUCH more versatile. 

The guy who taught me used a tall canopy on a pickup with wheel wells. Grands were positioned in the middle and cross-strapped to the front and both sides. 

------------------------------
David Stocker
Olympia WA
------------------------------

Thanks for all of your replies. David, I loved seeing the picture of the inside of your trailer! If anyone else wants to post a picture of their set-up, I'd love to see them. Almost as interesting as shop pictures!

I have moved several uprights in the last week or two, and have had no problems with attaching the pianos directly to the wall rather than having them in the corner.

I tried renting an aluminum ramp with an appropriate weight limit from Home Depot, but it was totally useless. Instead I just used a wooden box (about the same height as my dolly) as a pivot point to tilt the piano into the van. It was so easy that now I am thinking that getting a ramp right away is not so critical after all.

The last remaining big job is to do something about the wheel wells. Originally I was thinking that I would need to build a new wall out of plywood, but now I am wondering about just putting in rails for the E-Tracks. It would be lighter and simpler. Is there any reason not to do that that I have not thought of yet? I am attaching a picture of the current set-up.

------------------------------
Peter Stevenson RPT
P.S. Piano Service
Prince George BC
250-562-5358
ps@pspianoservice.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-11-2015 19:30
From: David Stocker
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

Including a shot of the inside of my trailer. Extra foot tall, e-track installed at the factory for nominal cost. I have never regretted getting doors instead of a ramp. MUCH more versatile. 

The guy who taught me used a tall canopy on a pickup with wheel wells. Grands were positioned in the middle and cross-strapped to the front and both sides. 

------------------------------
David Stocker
Olympia WA
------------------------------

Alright Peter!!  Making your investment pay!!  That's got to feel good.

With your current set up, if it were me, I'd at least generate a block of some kind to equal the gap between the back of the upright and the e-track above the wheel well.  The strap pulled tight would hold it there.

Like you, I had a pivot platform at one time.  Getting the load to pivot accurately was critical and added effort.  I even tried a lazy Susan type device and found it wasn't strong enough to handle the weight plus it added wobble during the time when I was in a compromised situation anyway.  I threw it away. 

Seeing the inside of your Sprinter makes me wonder.  Assuming you use the pivot block to get the piano in and out of your truck, would some 1/2 inch or 3/4 inch iron pipe under the skid or piano help?

------------------------------
Larry Fisher
Owner, Chief Grunt, Head Hosehead
Vancouver WA
360-256-2999
------------------------------

Hello Larry,

You have an interesting idea about building that spacer. I was actually thinking about doing a similar thing as another option for moving grand pianos. I could have all the E-tracks attached to the metal wall and just have a spacer structure the width of the wheel well so that the straps are holding the piano against the spacer against the wall.

I'm not quite sure what you mean about the pipes under the piano. Do you mean that they would slide better pushing the piano into the van than the bottom of the skid would? I wonder how they could be attached to the bottom of the skid so that they can come on and off easily.

------------------------------
Peter Stevenson RPT
P.S. Piano Service
Prince George BC
250-562-5358
ps@pspianoservice.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2015 10:23
From: Larry Fisher
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

Alright Peter!!  Making your investment pay!!  That's got to feel good.

With your current set up, if it were me, I'd at least generate a block of some kind to equal the gap between the back of the upright and the e-track above the wheel well.  The strap pulled tight would hold it there.

Like you, I had a pivot platform at one time.  Getting the load to pivot accurately was critical and added effort.  I even tried a lazy Susan type device and found it wasn't strong enough to handle the weight plus it added wobble during the time when I was in a compromised situation anyway.  I threw it away. 

Seeing the inside of your Sprinter makes me wonder.  Assuming you use the pivot block to get the piano in and out of your truck, would some 1/2 inch or 3/4 inch iron pipe under the skid or piano help?

------------------------------
Larry Fisher
Owner, Chief Grunt, Head Hosehead
Vancouver WA
360-256-2999
------------------------------

The skidboard rolls on the pipes. They are not attached.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

Oh, I see. I was trying to picture the pipes being parallel to the piano. So a pipe would provide a rounded surface for the piano to pivot on as it is entering the van, yes? So the pipe would be attached to the van?

------------------------------
Peter Stevenson RPT
P.S. Piano Service
Prince George BC
250-562-5358
ps@pspianoservice.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2015 14:14
From: Jon Page
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

The skidboard rolls on the pipes. They are not attached.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

NO my dear colleague.  The pipe acts as a roller like Jon said.  It's not attached to anything.  It substantially helps reduce your effort to push the skid into the truck.  Simply get one end of the skid far enough into the van to accommodate a piece of pipe under the leading edge and you'll be amazed at the reduced effort it takes to push the skid into the van.  As you lift the skid to push it into the van, the moment your skid makes contact with the pipe it will move.  If you're not ready for it, the skid will walk away from you.  Imagine trying to walk on marbles and you've got the idea.  Once your skid is in place, remove the pipe from under the skid.

Doing this with an old upright is tricky because the rear castors get in the way however with proper placement you can reduce the effort.  Some pedal boards on those older upright pianos may not hold up all that well to this sort of thing so be careful.  Additionally, these style of pianos come with castors already so the pipe would be for special circumstances.

------------------------------
Larry Fisher
Owner, Chief Grunt, Head Hosehead
Vancouver WA
360-256-2999
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2015 14:47
From: Peter Stevenson
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

Oh, I see. I was trying to picture the pipes being parallel to the piano. So a pipe would provide a rounded surface for the piano to pivot on as it is entering the van, yes? So the pipe would be attached to the van?

------------------------------
Peter Stevenson RPT
P.S. Piano Service
Prince George BC
250-562-5358
ps@pspianoservice.com
------------------------------



Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2015 14:14
From: Jon Page
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

The skidboard rolls on the pipes. They are not attached.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

I've taken to dowels rather than pipes for the rare occasion I need them. I can't see in the picture what kind of flooring is in your van. Plywood is easy enough to roll / slide on, carpet would be difficult. 

A major part of the system I have with the over-height trailer is that the piano never comes off of the dolly. Much less effort. It is also when trying to force the piano to slide into place that damage can happen. 

I think you can make the van work well with a frame / bumpers / rails / wall to hold the piano up against. Based on my life experience, build it now rather than making do for the next thirty years. 

------------------------------
David Stocker
Olympia WA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2015 09:57
From: Larry Fisher
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

NO my dear colleague.  The pipe acts as a roller like Jon said.  It's not attached to anything.  It substantially helps reduce your effort to push the skid into the truck.  Simply get one end of the skid far enough into the van to accommodate a piece of pipe under the leading edge and you'll be amazed at the reduced effort it takes to push the skid into the van.  As you lift the skid to push it into the van, the moment your skid makes contact with the pipe it will move.  If you're not ready for it, the skid will walk away from you.  Imagine trying to walk on marbles and you've got the idea.  Once your skid is in place, remove the pipe from under the skid.

Doing this with an old upright is tricky because the rear castors get in the way however with proper placement you can reduce the effort.  Some pedal boards on those older upright pianos may not hold up all that well to this sort of thing so be careful.  Additionally, these style of pianos come with castors already so the pipe would be for special circumstances.

------------------------------
Larry Fisher
Owner, Chief Grunt, Head Hosehead
Vancouver WA
360-256-2999
------------------------------



Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2015 14:47
From: Peter Stevenson
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

Oh, I see. I was trying to picture the pipes being parallel to the piano. So a pipe would provide a rounded surface for the piano to pivot on as it is entering the van, yes? So the pipe would be attached to the van?

------------------------------
Peter Stevenson RPT
P.S. Piano Service
Prince George BC
250-562-5358
ps@pspianoservice.com
------------------------------



Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2015 14:14
From: Jon Page
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

The skidboard rolls on the pipes. They are not attached.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

I carry 2, approx. 18" long PVC drain pipes for rolling pianos, about 2-2.5" diameter. They are lighter than iron pipe and they don't rust. They are also quite strong. I've never broken one, even under the heaviest pianos.

------------------------------
Philip Jamison
Philip Jamison Pianos
WEST CHESTER PA
610-696-8449
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2015 12:40
From: David Stocker
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

I've taken to dowels rather than pipes for the rare occasion I need them. I can't see in the picture what kind of flooring is in your van. Plywood is easy enough to roll / slide on, carpet would be difficult. 

A major part of the system I have with the over-height trailer is that the piano never comes off of the dolly. Much less effort. It is also when trying to force the piano to slide into place that damage can happen. 

I think you can make the van work well with a frame / bumpers / rails / wall to hold the piano up against. Based on my life experience, build it now rather than making do for the next thirty years. 

------------------------------
David Stocker
Olympia WA
------------------------------



Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2015 09:57
From: Larry Fisher
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

NO my dear colleague.  The pipe acts as a roller like Jon said.  It's not attached to anything.  It substantially helps reduce your effort to push the skid into the truck.  Simply get one end of the skid far enough into the van to accommodate a piece of pipe under the leading edge and you'll be amazed at the reduced effort it takes to push the skid into the van.  As you lift the skid to push it into the van, the moment your skid makes contact with the pipe it will move.  If you're not ready for it, the skid will walk away from you.  Imagine trying to walk on marbles and you've got the idea.  Once your skid is in place, remove the pipe from under the skid.

Doing this with an old upright is tricky because the rear castors get in the way however with proper placement you can reduce the effort.  Some pedal boards on those older upright pianos may not hold up all that well to this sort of thing so be careful.  Additionally, these style of pianos come with castors already so the pipe would be for special circumstances.

------------------------------
Larry Fisher
Owner, Chief Grunt, Head Hosehead
Vancouver WA
360-256-2999
------------------------------



Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2015 14:47
From: Peter Stevenson
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

Oh, I see. I was trying to picture the pipes being parallel to the piano. So a pipe would provide a rounded surface for the piano to pivot on as it is entering the van, yes? So the pipe would be attached to the van?

------------------------------
Peter Stevenson RPT
P.S. Piano Service
Prince George BC
250-562-5358
ps@pspianoservice.com
------------------------------



Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2015 14:14
From: Jon Page
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

The skidboard rolls on the pipes. They are not attached.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

Thanks for the clarification about the pipes; it is all starting to make sense now in my head. I moved six vertical pianos yesterday, and I can imagine how the pipes could help, especially with the two pianos that were already strapped to a skid.

I also encountered a couple situations in which having a ramp would have made things a lot easier, so I guess I'll be ordering one pretty soon.

And David, yes, I agree, building a good support for moving larger pianos is on my priority list.

------------------------------
Peter Stevenson RPT
P.S. Piano Service
Prince George BC
250-562-5358
ps@pspianoservice.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-21-2015 07:05
From: Philip Jamison
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

I carry 2, approx. 18" long PVC drain pipes for rolling pianos, about 2-2.5" diameter. They are lighter than iron pipe and they don't rust. They are also quite strong. I've never broken one, even under the heaviest pianos.

------------------------------
Philip Jamison
Philip Jamison Pianos
WEST CHESTER PA
610-696-8449
------------------------------



Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2015 12:40
From: David Stocker
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

I've taken to dowels rather than pipes for the rare occasion I need them. I can't see in the picture what kind of flooring is in your van. Plywood is easy enough to roll / slide on, carpet would be difficult. 

A major part of the system I have with the over-height trailer is that the piano never comes off of the dolly. Much less effort. It is also when trying to force the piano to slide into place that damage can happen. 

I think you can make the van work well with a frame / bumpers / rails / wall to hold the piano up against. Based on my life experience, build it now rather than making do for the next thirty years. 

------------------------------
David Stocker
Olympia WA
------------------------------



Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2015 09:57
From: Larry Fisher
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

NO my dear colleague.  The pipe acts as a roller like Jon said.  It's not attached to anything.  It substantially helps reduce your effort to push the skid into the truck.  Simply get one end of the skid far enough into the van to accommodate a piece of pipe under the leading edge and you'll be amazed at the reduced effort it takes to push the skid into the van.  As you lift the skid to push it into the van, the moment your skid makes contact with the pipe it will move.  If you're not ready for it, the skid will walk away from you.  Imagine trying to walk on marbles and you've got the idea.  Once your skid is in place, remove the pipe from under the skid.

Doing this with an old upright is tricky because the rear castors get in the way however with proper placement you can reduce the effort.  Some pedal boards on those older upright pianos may not hold up all that well to this sort of thing so be careful.  Additionally, these style of pianos come with castors already so the pipe would be for special circumstances.

------------------------------
Larry Fisher
Owner, Chief Grunt, Head Hosehead
Vancouver WA
360-256-2999
------------------------------



Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2015 14:47
From: Peter Stevenson
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

Oh, I see. I was trying to picture the pipes being parallel to the piano. So a pipe would provide a rounded surface for the piano to pivot on as it is entering the van, yes? So the pipe would be attached to the van?

------------------------------
Peter Stevenson RPT
P.S. Piano Service
Prince George BC
250-562-5358
ps@pspianoservice.com
------------------------------



Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2015 14:14
From: Jon Page
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

The skidboard rolls on the pipes. They are not attached.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

The door height on my trailer is 70". This accommodates grands on dollies. Grands and uprights stay on the dolly and are strapped to the wall.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

I used three different lengths of ramp.  8 foot, 5 foot and 2.5 feet or so.  The little one got used for hopscotching across lawns as well as the obvious other uses.  It was just long enough to park the dolly on while the ramp got moved for the next segment of the move.

It's good to see your venture into piano moving is paying off so quickly.  Be careful Mr. S.  You're moving things that weigh more than you!!  The longer you can get away with that, the more money you're going to make. 

You have my highest wishes for a successful and pain free career. 

Lar

------------------------------
Larry Fisher
Owner, Chief Grunt, Head Hosehead
Vancouver WA
360-256-2999
------------------------------

I know that this was posted earlier in the thread, but I do work for a guy that wants to go into the piano moving business (strictly for the pianos he sells),?? and he wants me to get some better dollies and buy ramps for the trailers he plans to equip.?? What were the sources and some said that fiberglass ramps were the way to go????? Clark


------Original Message------

I used three different lengths of ramp.  8 foot, 5 foot and 2.5 feet or so.  The little one got used for hopscotching across lawns as well as the obvious other uses.  It was just long enough to park the dolly on while the ramp got moved for the next segment of the move.

It's good to see your venture into piano moving is paying off so quickly.  Be careful Mr. S.  You're moving things that weigh more than you!!  The longer you can get away with that, the more money you're going to make. 

You have my highest wishes for a successful and pain free career. 

Lar

------------------------------
Larry Fisher
Owner, Chief Grunt, Head Hosehead
Vancouver WA
360-256-2999
------------------------------

New Haven Moving Equipment Co.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

Clark,

I would not recommend New Haven Moving Equipment for skid boards -- they bend and break frequently. We have purchased many from them and we relegate the New Haven skid boards for stored pianos only -- not for routine moving. They use soft lumber and they don't glue the platform lumber to the skids -- they're nailed, resulting in lack of unity. As for ramps -- try Melcher Ramps in Spokane Washington. Schaff or Jansen are good skid boards.

------------------------------
Roger Gable
Gable Piano
Everett WA
425-252-5000
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-22-2015 10:24
From: Clark Sprague
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

I know that this was posted earlier in the thread, but I do work for a guy that wants to go into the piano moving business (strictly for the pianos he sells),?? and he wants me to get some better dollies and buy ramps for the trailers he plans to equip.?? What were the sources and some said that fiberglass ramps were the way to go????? Clark

--
Clark A. Sprague, RPT csprague4@woh.rr.com www.clarkspianoservice.com

Thanks for the input. We got skids from Pianotek, and they worked well
when we moved all 19 pianos he had in stock at the time. But we only
plan on moving a couple now and again now that he's moved. We need ramps
and some better dollies. New Haven is the only one I have had a chance
to look at yet. Clark
--
Clark A. Sprague, RPT csprague4@woh.rr.com www.clarkspianoservice.com

------Original Message------

Clark,

I would not recommend New Haven Moving Equipment for skid boards -- they bend and break frequently. We have purchased many from them and we relegate the New Haven skid boards for stored pianos only -- not for routine moving. They use soft lumber and they don't glue the platform lumber to the skids -- they're nailed, resulting in lack of unity. As for ramps -- try Melcher Ramps in Spokane Washington. Schaff or Jansen are good skid boards.

------------------------------
Roger Gable
Gable Piano
Everett WA
425-252-5000
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-22-2015 10:24
From: Clark Sprague
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

I know that this was posted earlier in the thread, but I do work for a guy that wants to go into the piano moving business (strictly for the pianos he sells),?? and he wants me to get some better dollies and buy ramps for the trailers he plans to equip.?? What were the sources and some said that fiberglass ramps were the way to go????? Clark

--
Clark A. Sprague, RPT csprague4@woh.rr.com www.clarkspianoservice.com

I purchased all my dollies (about 20) from NH as well as pads/straps and a ramp. Good to know about their boards.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

Hi Clark

i went through a distributor for Interstate Trailer.  You can specify the e-track placements, flat front or vee nose, single or double axle, brakes, ceiling height, door type, lighting, rear jack stands, etc.  I pretty much dictated what I wanted and they built it for me.  I had to double up on the floor though.  Their floors flexed way too much for piano moving.

------------------------------
Larry Fisher
Owner, Chief Grunt, Head Hosehead
Vancouver WA
360-256-2999
------------------------------

 the trailers he plans to equip.?? What were the sources

My Interstate trailer is a 5x8 at 6.5' high, with a 70" door height. Pressure treated flooring, E-tracks at 12", 32", 48". I had a V-nose but it would not allow for the rear hatch on my SUV to open if the trailer were the least bit articulated. My second trailer is flat-front. On the V-nose flooring, the center panel was a 4x8 with 6' strips on the sides joined by a metal strip. The strip always interfered with the dolly wheels when securing the piano to the wall. The flat-nose trailer has two sheets run sideways so that the floor is flush to the wall, no metal strip to hang up the wheels. The new trailer has a light switch on the wall near the door.

I was able to get rid of the trailer with the v-nose and metal strips on the flooring by loaning it to someone who hit an overhang and peeled the top back a few feet.
------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

I found this whole thread very useful and interesting! So I'm reviving it. 

After 20 years or so I'm finally retiring my old piano moving trailer. (tear rolls slowly down cheek)

I think I'm the 4th owner - the original owner being former PTG president George Morgan who had it built in 1957 and was part of his very successful piano rental operation. I've been a little nostalgic about it because it has served me well. 

I'll probably still hang on to it for hauling stuff to the dump, but the time has come for a new trailer set-up. 

 

Here's what I have gleaned from this thread so far:

1. You want a trailer with extra height so that grand and large uprights can stay on the dolly for easy loading. David Stocker recommended getting a foot higher than standard. 

2. You want 'barn doors' instead of a ramp because it is way more versitile

3. You want to have Etrack installed. Jon Page suggested 3 rails per side: 12", 32", and 48" for versatility and cross strapping

4. Lower deck height helps: Jon Page's trailer was 'easy load' with a bed height of 16"

5. Flat front is better than the V shape which can interfere with raising the hatchback on a vehicle. 

 

Here's some questions that have come up from researching trailers:

 

1. Aluminum is lighter than steel, doesn't rust, but is more expensive.
2. A vent is important for letting heat out in hot weather
3. Putting an epoxy coating on the floor can make it tougher and more waterproof
4. Good to have lights inside

By the way, for those going to Reno: I highly recommend David Stocker's piano moving class that is being offered this year. I've learned a lot from Dave over the years, and of course we both learned a lot from Puget Sound charter member John Grace, one of the few completely blind piano movers who ever lived. RIP. 

I've decided I'm going to have the trailer built for me, so any other things I should be thinking about since this thread started in 2015?

------------------------------
Ryan Sowers RPT
Olympia WA
(360) 480-5648
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-23-2015 11:09
From: Jon Page
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

My Interstate trailer is a 5x8 at 6.5' high, with a 70" door height. Pressure treated flooring, E-tracks at 12", 32", 48". I had a V-nose but it would not allow for the rear hatch on my SUV to open if the trailer were the least bit articulated. My second trailer is flat-front. On the V-nose flooring, the center panel was a 4x8 with 6' strips on the sides joined by a metal strip. The strip always interfered with the dolly wheels when securing the piano to the wall. The flat-nose trailer has two sheets run sideways so that the floor is flush to the wall, no metal strip to hang up the wheels. The new trailer has a light switch on the wall near the door.

I was able to get rid of the trailer with the v-nose and metal strips on the flooring by loaning it to someone who hit an overhang and peeled the top back a few feet.
------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

Original Message:
Sent: 6/23/2024 5:33:00 PM
From: Ryan Sowers
Subject: RE: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

I found this whole thread very useful and interesting! So I'm reviving it. 

After 20 years or so I'm finally retiring my old piano moving trailer. (tear rolls slowly down cheek)

I think I'm the 4th owner - the original owner being former PTG president George Morgan who had it built in 1957 and was part of his very successful piano rental operation. I've been a little nostalgic about it because it has served me well. 

I'll probably still hang on to it for hauling stuff to the dump, but the time has come for a new trailer set-up. 

 

Here's what I have gleaned from this thread so far:

1. You want a trailer with extra height so that grand and large uprights can stay on the dolly for easy loading. David Stocker recommended getting a foot higher than standard. 

2. You want 'barn doors' instead of a ramp because it is way more versitile

3. You want to have Etrack installed. Jon Page suggested 3 rails per side: 12", 32", and 48" for versatility and cross strapping

4. Lower deck height helps: Jon Page's trailer was 'easy load' with a bed height of 16"

5. Flat front is better than the V shape which can interfere with raising the hatchback on a vehicle. 

 

Here's some questions that have come up from researching trailers:

 

1. Aluminum is lighter than steel, doesn't rust, but is more expensive.
2. A vent is important for letting heat out in hot weather
3. Putting an epoxy coating on the floor can make it tougher and more waterproof
4. Good to have lights inside

By the way, for those going to Reno: I highly recommend David Stocker's piano moving class that is being offered this year. I've learned a lot from Dave over the years, and of course we both learned a lot from Puget Sound charter member John Grace, one of the few completely blind piano movers who ever lived. RIP. 

I've decided I'm going to have the trailer built for me, so any other things I should be thinking about since this thread started in 2015?

------------------------------
Ryan Sowers RPT
Olympia WA
(360) 480-5648
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-23-2015 11:09
From: Jon Page
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

My Interstate trailer is a 5x8 at 6.5' high, with a 70" door height. Pressure treated flooring, E-tracks at 12", 32", 48". I had a V-nose but it would not allow for the rear hatch on my SUV to open if the trailer were the least bit articulated. My second trailer is flat-front. On the V-nose flooring, the center panel was a 4x8 with 6' strips on the sides joined by a metal strip. The strip always interfered with the dolly wheels when securing the piano to the wall. The flat-nose trailer has two sheets run sideways so that the floor is flush to the wall, no metal strip to hang up the wheels. The new trailer has a light switch on the wall near the door.

I was able to get rid of the trailer with the v-nose and metal strips on the flooring by loaning it to someone who hit an overhang and peeled the top back a few feet.
------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

I decided on a single axle because they are supposed to be more maneuverable, and I don't want anything to large. One of the things I like about my vintage trailer is that I can get it into somewhat awkward places sometimes. 

I don't see how leaving the piano on the dolly makes it more prone to damage if done properly. Dave stocker uses a specially shaped wood block that acts as a break for the dolly wheels. If the piano is properly padded and ratcheted down, it basically becomes one with the trailer. 

------------------------------
Ryan Sowers RPT
Olympia WA
(360) 480-5648
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2024 18:07
From: Chris Chernobieff
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

Just get a two axle enclosed horse trailer. They even come with living quarters for long trips. Also I consider it bad taste to leave a piano on a dolly, plus the piano is more prone to damage. Blocks the same height of a dolly is preferred. 

-chris

Original Message:
Sent: 6/23/2024 5:33:00 PM
From: Ryan Sowers
Subject: RE: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

I found this whole thread very useful and interesting! So I'm reviving it. 

After 20 years or so I'm finally retiring my old piano moving trailer. (tear rolls slowly down cheek)

I think I'm the 4th owner - the original owner being former PTG president George Morgan who had it built in 1957 and was part of his very successful piano rental operation. I've been a little nostalgic about it because it has served me well. 

I'll probably still hang on to it for hauling stuff to the dump, but the time has come for a new trailer set-up. 

 

Here's what I have gleaned from this thread so far:

1. You want a trailer with extra height so that grand and large uprights can stay on the dolly for easy loading. David Stocker recommended getting a foot higher than standard. 

2. You want 'barn doors' instead of a ramp because it is way more versitile

3. You want to have Etrack installed. Jon Page suggested 3 rails per side: 12", 32", and 48" for versatility and cross strapping

4. Lower deck height helps: Jon Page's trailer was 'easy load' with a bed height of 16"

5. Flat front is better than the V shape which can interfere with raising the hatchback on a vehicle. 

 

Here's some questions that have come up from researching trailers:

 

1. Aluminum is lighter than steel, doesn't rust, but is more expensive.
2. A vent is important for letting heat out in hot weather
3. Putting an epoxy coating on the floor can make it tougher and more waterproof
4. Good to have lights inside

By the way, for those going to Reno: I highly recommend David Stocker's piano moving class that is being offered this year. I've learned a lot from Dave over the years, and of course we both learned a lot from Puget Sound charter member John Grace, one of the few completely blind piano movers who ever lived. RIP. 

I've decided I'm going to have the trailer built for me, so any other things I should be thinking about since this thread started in 2015?

------------------------------
Ryan Sowers RPT
Olympia WA
(360) 480-5648
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-23-2015 11:09
From: Jon Page
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

My Interstate trailer is a 5x8 at 6.5' high, with a 70" door height. Pressure treated flooring, E-tracks at 12", 32", 48". I had a V-nose but it would not allow for the rear hatch on my SUV to open if the trailer were the least bit articulated. My second trailer is flat-front. On the V-nose flooring, the center panel was a 4x8 with 6' strips on the sides joined by a metal strip. The strip always interfered with the dolly wheels when securing the piano to the wall. The flat-nose trailer has two sheets run sideways so that the floor is flush to the wall, no metal strip to hang up the wheels. The new trailer has a light switch on the wall near the door.

I was able to get rid of the trailer with the v-nose and metal strips on the flooring by loaning it to someone who hit an overhang and peeled the top back a few feet.
------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

Many delivery trucks in the UK have an elevating tail gate - which precludes the use of a ramp. Has anyone considered this? You can also ride up and down on them. What fun!             Michael   UK

------------------------------
Michael Gamble
semi retired
Brighton
01273813612
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-22-2015 10:08
From: Larry Fisher
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

I used three different lengths of ramp.  8 foot, 5 foot and 2.5 feet or so.  The little one got used for hopscotching across lawns as well as the obvious other uses.  It was just long enough to park the dolly on while the ramp got moved for the next segment of the move.

It's good to see your venture into piano moving is paying off so quickly.  Be careful Mr. S.  You're moving things that weigh more than you!!  The longer you can get away with that, the more money you're going to make. 

You have my highest wishes for a successful and pain free career. 

Lar

------------------------------
Larry Fisher
Owner, Chief Grunt, Head Hosehead
Vancouver WA
360-256-2999
------------------------------

This trailer shot is similar to mine.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

This trailer shot is similar to mine.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

Hi David, what is the 4-wheel fixed dolly you use?  Sorry, I should have written it down in  your class...

------------------------------
Joel Gamble
Eastsound WA
(425) 773-2961
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-11-2015 19:30
From: David Stocker
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

Including a shot of the inside of my trailer. Extra foot tall, e-track installed at the factory for nominal cost. I have never regretted getting doors instead of a ramp. MUCH more versatile. 

The guy who taught me used a tall canopy on a pickup with wheel wells. Grands were positioned in the middle and cross-strapped to the front and both sides. 

------------------------------
David Stocker
Olympia WA
------------------------------

It is a Dutro 1350. Available from several online vendors. I add some rubber grip to the top of the carpet. 

------------------------------
David Stocker, RPT
Olympia WA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2026 14:17
From: Joel Gamble
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

Hi David, what is the 4-wheel fixed dolly you use?  Sorry, I should have written it down in  your class...

------------------------------
Joel Gamble
Eastsound WA
(425) 773-2961
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-11-2015 19:30
From: David Stocker
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

Including a shot of the inside of my trailer. Extra foot tall, e-track installed at the factory for nominal cost. I have never regretted getting doors instead of a ramp. MUCH more versatile. 

The guy who taught me used a tall canopy on a pickup with wheel wells. Grands were positioned in the middle and cross-strapped to the front and both sides. 

------------------------------
David Stocker
Olympia WA
------------------------------

David,

I agree, I feel the Dutro dolly is the most universal dolly, although I remove the carpet and replace it with Antislip stair covering – McMaster sells it in various forms. The problem with the carpet is that it slips easily as you mention, especially when the piano is lifted on one end while the dolly is placed under the piano at an angle. The Antislip holds firmly but not enough to inhibit readjusting when under the full weight of the piano.

------------------------------
Roger Gable RPT
Gable Piano
Everett WA
(425) 252-5000
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-30-2026 01:09
From: David Stocker
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

It is a Dutro 1350. Available from several online vendors. I add some rubber grip to the top of the carpet. 

------------------------------
David Stocker, RPT
Olympia WA
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2026 14:17
From: Joel Gamble
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

Hi David, what is the 4-wheel fixed dolly you use?  Sorry, I should have written it down in  your class...

------------------------------
Joel Gamble
Eastsound WA
(425) 773-2961
------------------------------



Original Message:
Sent: 07-11-2015 19:30
From: David Stocker
Subject: Vehicle set-up for moving pianos

Including a shot of the inside of my trailer. Extra foot tall, e-track installed at the factory for nominal cost. I have never regretted getting doors instead of a ramp. MUCH more versatile. 

The guy who taught me used a tall canopy on a pickup with wheel wells. Grands were positioned in the middle and cross-strapped to the front and both sides. 

------------------------------
David Stocker
Olympia WA
------------------------------