Pianotech

I have a terrific client with a S&S "S" in her house. Tuning pins are horribly loose and get much worse during the winter when the heat is on. Obviously the only real way to fix this is a new pin block. However, she doesn't want a "Stein-was", and cannot go for the expense right now of doing all the work required. I do not want to put in oversize pins as I don't want to potentially split the pin block. I was going to bring up CA Glue, but I am hesitant. Here's why:

I have another client that has an upright player piano, and had to do my first CA treatment there. When I applied the glue (no way of putting the piano on it's back for this application), I held a paper towel to prevent any dripping. To my shock and horror, when some of the glue dripped on the paper towel, it started to smoke, and then bled through to my fingers, which started to become glued. Talk about freaking out!! In the end, the piano tuned nicely, the smoke dissipated and my fingers were unstuck. However, I have not tried this method anymore.

Now I have a piano that I think could really benefit at this time from a CA treatment. I know that I will need to cover the keys under the pin block, but with what? I have since read that CA Glue does not play well with cotton or paper (that was the smoke I saw interacting with the cotton and paper fibers on the paper towel.). What have you used to prevent dripping on the piano keys below?

Many thanks for your help!!

------------------------------
Keith Gramlich
East Meadow NY
917-757-4207
------------------------------

Pull the action to be absolutely safe. I have a stiff sheet of plastic that I can slide over the top of the action under the pin block. In truth, I've never seen any leak through but I still take the precaution. 
If you search, you'll find a discussion on this forum where people discuss the various methods they use to apply the glue.
I treaded an "M" about 8 years ago and it's still going strong.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal
Honolulu HI
808-521-7129
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-11-2022 11:32
From: Keith Gramlich
Subject: CA Glue for loose tuning pins and smoke

I have a terrific client with a S&S "S" in her house. Tuning pins are horribly loose and get much worse during the winter when the heat is on. Obviously the only real way to fix this is a new pin block. However, she doesn't want a "Stein-was", and cannot go for the expense right now of doing all the work required. I do not want to put in oversize pins as I don't want to potentially split the pin block. I was going to bring up CA Glue, but I am hesitant. Here's why:

I have another client that has an upright player piano, and had to do my first CA treatment there. When I applied the glue (no way of putting the piano on it's back for this application), I held a paper towel to prevent any dripping. To my shock and horror, when some of the glue dripped on the paper towel, it started to smoke, and then bled through to my fingers, which started to become glued. Talk about freaking out!! In the end, the piano tuned nicely, the smoke dissipated and my fingers were unstuck. However, I have not tried this method anymore.

Now I have a piano that I think could really benefit at this time from a CA treatment. I know that I will need to cover the keys under the pin block, but with what? I have since read that CA Glue does not play well with cotton or paper (that was the smoke I saw interacting with the cotton and paper fibers on the paper towel.). What have you used to prevent dripping on the piano keys below?

Many thanks for your help!!

------------------------------
Keith Gramlich
East Meadow NY
917-757-4207
------------------------------

Keith,

I am a proponent of laying out all the options to the client and discussing the pros and cons of each. I would also suggest Lo-Torq tuning pins if re-pinning is discussed. You could present CA as a stop gap method until she decides she can afford the real fix which is a new pinblock. If you do a nice job with the CA you may never need to replace the thing...but you never know. Just ve neat with the stuff. 

Edit: I too have had the paper reaction as you did, but it was with one of those blue "shop towels" which evidently has a significant cotton content that I did not think about at the time. OUCH! Significant pain, burning, and sticking!

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-11-2022 12:24
From: Steven Rosenthal
Subject: CA Glue for loose tuning pins and smoke

Pull the action to be absolutely safe. I have a stiff sheet of plastic that I can slide over the top of the action under the pin block. In truth, I've never seen any leak through but I still take the precaution.
If you search, you'll find a discussion on this forum where people discuss the various methods they use to apply the glue.
I treaded an "M" about 8 years ago and it's still going strong.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal
Honolulu HI
808-521-7129

Original Message:
Sent: 02-11-2022 11:32
From: Keith Gramlich
Subject: CA Glue for loose tuning pins and smoke

I have a terrific client with a S&S "S" in her house. Tuning pins are horribly loose and get much worse during the winter when the heat is on. Obviously the only real way to fix this is a new pin block. However, she doesn't want a "Stein-was", and cannot go for the expense right now of doing all the work required. I do not want to put in oversize pins as I don't want to potentially split the pin block. I was going to bring up CA Glue, but I am hesitant. Here's why:

I have another client that has an upright player piano, and had to do my first CA treatment there. When I applied the glue (no way of putting the piano on it's back for this application), I held a paper towel to prevent any dripping. To my shock and horror, when some of the glue dripped on the paper towel, it started to smoke, and then bled through to my fingers, which started to become glued. Talk about freaking out!! In the end, the piano tuned nicely, the smoke dissipated and my fingers were unstuck. However, I have not tried this method anymore.

Now I have a piano that I think could really benefit at this time from a CA treatment. I know that I will need to cover the keys under the pin block, but with what? I have since read that CA Glue does not play well with cotton or paper (that was the smoke I saw interacting with the cotton and paper fibers on the paper towel.). What have you used to prevent dripping on the piano keys below?

Many thanks for your help!!

------------------------------
Keith Gramlich
East Meadow NY
917-757-4207
------------------------------

You should pull out the action and protect the keybed with a drop cloth, thick cardboard when treating a pinblock on a grand piano . Verticals present other challenges but someone recently stated they use medium viscosity CA. I was thinking that a barrier of silicone may or maynot work to prevent a mess . Removing the action is a must to protect dampers and hammers but with medium CA ( I have yet to try medium) you may not have to .

You need to treat CA with caution in any amount since you can get a serious chemical burn, have respiratory issues and chemical reactions.

On grand pianos you should have safety glasses, good chemical respirator, face shield, good lighting, good room ventilation. Also discuss with the client that there is an odor and anyone with chemical sensitivity needs to be removed from the area. I have treated many, many pianos with CA with excellent, long lasting results. If done correctly it will add many years to the piano. Always have fresh product unless you have been storing it in a freezer as some recommend.

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-11-2022 17:06
From: Peter Grey
Subject: CA Glue for loose tuning pins and smoke

Keith,

I am a proponent of laying out all the options to the client and discussing the pros and cons of each. I would also suggest Lo-Torq tuning pins if re-pinning is discussed. You could present CA as a stop gap method until she decides she can afford the real fix which is a new pinblock. If you do a nice job with the CA you may never need to replace the thing...but you never know. Just ve neat with the stuff.

Edit: I too have had the paper reaction as you did, but it was with one of those blue "shop towels" which evidently has a significant cotton content that I did not think about at the time. OUCH! Significant pain, burning, and sticking!

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 02-11-2022 12:24
From: Steven Rosenthal
Subject: CA Glue for loose tuning pins and smoke

Pull the action to be absolutely safe. I have a stiff sheet of plastic that I can slide over the top of the action under the pin block. In truth, I've never seen any leak through but I still take the precaution.
If you search, you'll find a discussion on this forum where people discuss the various methods they use to apply the glue.
I treaded an "M" about 8 years ago and it's still going strong.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal
Honolulu HI
808-521-7129

Original Message:
Sent: 02-11-2022 11:32
From: Keith Gramlich
Subject: CA Glue for loose tuning pins and smoke

I have a terrific client with a S&S "S" in her house. Tuning pins are horribly loose and get much worse during the winter when the heat is on. Obviously the only real way to fix this is a new pin block. However, she doesn't want a "Stein-was", and cannot go for the expense right now of doing all the work required. I do not want to put in oversize pins as I don't want to potentially split the pin block. I was going to bring up CA Glue, but I am hesitant. Here's why:

I have another client that has an upright player piano, and had to do my first CA treatment there. When I applied the glue (no way of putting the piano on it's back for this application), I held a paper towel to prevent any dripping. To my shock and horror, when some of the glue dripped on the paper towel, it started to smoke, and then bled through to my fingers, which started to become glued. Talk about freaking out!! In the end, the piano tuned nicely, the smoke dissipated and my fingers were unstuck. However, I have not tried this method anymore.

Now I have a piano that I think could really benefit at this time from a CA treatment. I know that I will need to cover the keys under the pin block, but with what? I have since read that CA Glue does not play well with cotton or paper (that was the smoke I saw interacting with the cotton and paper fibers on the paper towel.). What have you used to prevent dripping on the piano keys below?

Many thanks for your help!!

------------------------------
Keith Gramlich
East Meadow NY
917-757-4207
------------------------------

Yikes! Now that's scary! What kind of CA glue are you using? All good advice from others here. Here's a video I posted on YouTube recently of a piano I treated about 9 years ago and it's holding very well. Kimball Consolette CA treatment. It shows the kind of CA glue I use.

------------------------------
"That Tuning Guy"
Scott Kerns
Lincoln, Nebraska
www.thattuningguy.com
PianoMeter, TuneLab, OnlyPure, PianoScope & PiaTune user
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-11-2022 11:32
From: Keith Gramlich
Subject: CA Glue for loose tuning pins and smoke

I have a terrific client with a S&S "S" in her house. Tuning pins are horribly loose and get much worse during the winter when the heat is on. Obviously the only real way to fix this is a new pin block. However, she doesn't want a "Stein-was", and cannot go for the expense right now of doing all the work required. I do not want to put in oversize pins as I don't want to potentially split the pin block. I was going to bring up CA Glue, but I am hesitant. Here's why:

I have another client that has an upright player piano, and had to do my first CA treatment there. When I applied the glue (no way of putting the piano on it's back for this application), I held a paper towel to prevent any dripping. To my shock and horror, when some of the glue dripped on the paper towel, it started to smoke, and then bled through to my fingers, which started to become glued. Talk about freaking out!! In the end, the piano tuned nicely, the smoke dissipated and my fingers were unstuck. However, I have not tried this method anymore.

Now I have a piano that I think could really benefit at this time from a CA treatment. I know that I will need to cover the keys under the pin block, but with what? I have since read that CA Glue does not play well with cotton or paper (that was the smoke I saw interacting with the cotton and paper fibers on the paper towel.). What have you used to prevent dripping on the piano keys below?

Many thanks for your help!!

------------------------------
Keith Gramlich
East Meadow NY
917-757-4207
------------------------------

I recently had some drips of CA on a grand go through; the first time I had seen that.  I'm glad I removed the action.

------------------------------
Walter Bagnall
Chillicothe OH
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-11-2022 11:32
From: Keith Gramlich
Subject: CA Glue for loose tuning pins and smoke

I have a terrific client with a S&S "S" in her house. Tuning pins are horribly loose and get much worse during the winter when the heat is on. Obviously the only real way to fix this is a new pin block. However, she doesn't want a "Stein-was", and cannot go for the expense right now of doing all the work required. I do not want to put in oversize pins as I don't want to potentially split the pin block. I was going to bring up CA Glue, but I am hesitant. Here's why:

I have another client that has an upright player piano, and had to do my first CA treatment there. When I applied the glue (no way of putting the piano on it's back for this application), I held a paper towel to prevent any dripping. To my shock and horror, when some of the glue dripped on the paper towel, it started to smoke, and then bled through to my fingers, which started to become glued. Talk about freaking out!! In the end, the piano tuned nicely, the smoke dissipated and my fingers were unstuck. However, I have not tried this method anymore.

Now I have a piano that I think could really benefit at this time from a CA treatment. I know that I will need to cover the keys under the pin block, but with what? I have since read that CA Glue does not play well with cotton or paper (that was the smoke I saw interacting with the cotton and paper fibers on the paper towel.). What have you used to prevent dripping on the piano keys below?

Many thanks for your help!!

------------------------------
Keith Gramlich
East Meadow NY
917-757-4207
------------------------------

It seems to me that finding the best solution to loose pins involves looking at the bottom of the pinblock for cracks and delamination. If the block is coming apart there is a stronger argument to replace it. If there are signs the block is coming undone you can still give the CA a try. I would go for medium in that case. If there are no signs of the block coming apart then CA is probably a good and long lasting solution. In my experience Steinways are especially good for this because they have a good quality block and no tuning pin bushings.

The Stein-was concern irks me. A good pinblock is a good pinblock. The piano will not be desecrated in any way by installing one not blessed by the priests in New York.

------------------------------
John Pope
University of Kentucky School of Music
Lexington, KY
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-11-2022 11:32
From: Keith Gramlich
Subject: CA Glue for loose tuning pins and smoke

I have a terrific client with a S&S "S" in her house. Tuning pins are horribly loose and get much worse during the winter when the heat is on. Obviously the only real way to fix this is a new pin block. However, she doesn't want a "Stein-was", and cannot go for the expense right now of doing all the work required. I do not want to put in oversize pins as I don't want to potentially split the pin block. I was going to bring up CA Glue, but I am hesitant. Here's why:

I have another client that has an upright player piano, and had to do my first CA treatment there. When I applied the glue (no way of putting the piano on it's back for this application), I held a paper towel to prevent any dripping. To my shock and horror, when some of the glue dripped on the paper towel, it started to smoke, and then bled through to my fingers, which started to become glued. Talk about freaking out!! In the end, the piano tuned nicely, the smoke dissipated and my fingers were unstuck. However, I have not tried this method anymore.

Now I have a piano that I think could really benefit at this time from a CA treatment. I know that I will need to cover the keys under the pin block, but with what? I have since read that CA Glue does not play well with cotton or paper (that was the smoke I saw interacting with the cotton and paper fibers on the paper towel.). What have you used to prevent dripping on the piano keys below?

Many thanks for your help!!

------------------------------
Keith Gramlich
East Meadow NY
917-757-4207
------------------------------

I would like to thank everyone that answered my post!! Very informative and a bunch to think about! I appreciate everyone's insight!!


------------------------------
Keith Gramlich
East Meadow NY
917-757-4207
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-11-2022 11:32
From: Keith Gramlich
Subject: CA Glue for loose tuning pins and smoke

I have a terrific client with a S&S "S" in her house. Tuning pins are horribly loose and get much worse during the winter when the heat is on. Obviously the only real way to fix this is a new pin block. However, she doesn't want a "Stein-was", and cannot go for the expense right now of doing all the work required. I do not want to put in oversize pins as I don't want to potentially split the pin block. I was going to bring up CA Glue, but I am hesitant. Here's why:

I have another client that has an upright player piano, and had to do my first CA treatment there. When I applied the glue (no way of putting the piano on it's back for this application), I held a paper towel to prevent any dripping. To my shock and horror, when some of the glue dripped on the paper towel, it started to smoke, and then bled through to my fingers, which started to become glued. Talk about freaking out!! In the end, the piano tuned nicely, the smoke dissipated and my fingers were unstuck. However, I have not tried this method anymore.

Now I have a piano that I think could really benefit at this time from a CA treatment. I know that I will need to cover the keys under the pin block, but with what? I have since read that CA Glue does not play well with cotton or paper (that was the smoke I saw interacting with the cotton and paper fibers on the paper towel.). What have you used to prevent dripping on the piano keys below?

Many thanks for your help!!

------------------------------
Keith Gramlich
East Meadow NY
917-757-4207
------------------------------

So, I should have confirmed, because it looks like there maybe something to it, I was using BSI (Bob Smith Industries) CA Glue. Is there a better brand I should use?

------------------------------
Keith Gramlich
East Meadow NY
917-757-4207
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-14-2022 16:55
From: Keith Gramlich
Subject: CA Glue for loose tuning pins and smoke

I would like to thank everyone that answered my post!! Very informative and a bunch to think about! I appreciate everyone's insight!!


------------------------------
Keith Gramlich
East Meadow NY
917-757-4207

Original Message:
Sent: 02-11-2022 11:32
From: Keith Gramlich
Subject: CA Glue for loose tuning pins and smoke

I have a terrific client with a S&S "S" in her house. Tuning pins are horribly loose and get much worse during the winter when the heat is on. Obviously the only real way to fix this is a new pin block. However, she doesn't want a "Stein-was", and cannot go for the expense right now of doing all the work required. I do not want to put in oversize pins as I don't want to potentially split the pin block. I was going to bring up CA Glue, but I am hesitant. Here's why:

I have another client that has an upright player piano, and had to do my first CA treatment there. When I applied the glue (no way of putting the piano on it's back for this application), I held a paper towel to prevent any dripping. To my shock and horror, when some of the glue dripped on the paper towel, it started to smoke, and then bled through to my fingers, which started to become glued. Talk about freaking out!! In the end, the piano tuned nicely, the smoke dissipated and my fingers were unstuck. However, I have not tried this method anymore.

Now I have a piano that I think could really benefit at this time from a CA treatment. I know that I will need to cover the keys under the pin block, but with what? I have since read that CA Glue does not play well with cotton or paper (that was the smoke I saw interacting with the cotton and paper fibers on the paper towel.). What have you used to prevent dripping on the piano keys below?

Many thanks for your help!!

------------------------------
Keith Gramlich
East Meadow NY
917-757-4207
------------------------------

GluBoost

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-14-2022 17:37
From: Keith Gramlich
Subject: CA Glue for loose tuning pins and smoke

So, I should have confirmed, because it looks like there maybe something to it, I was using BSI (Bob Smith Industries) CA Glue. Is there a better brand I should use?

------------------------------
Keith Gramlich
East Meadow NY
917-757-4207

Original Message:
Sent: 02-14-2022 16:55
From: Keith Gramlich
Subject: CA Glue for loose tuning pins and smoke

I would like to thank everyone that answered my post!! Very informative and a bunch to think about! I appreciate everyone's insight!!


------------------------------
Keith Gramlich
East Meadow NY
917-757-4207

Original Message:
Sent: 02-11-2022 11:32
From: Keith Gramlich
Subject: CA Glue for loose tuning pins and smoke

I have a terrific client with a S&S "S" in her house. Tuning pins are horribly loose and get much worse during the winter when the heat is on. Obviously the only real way to fix this is a new pin block. However, she doesn't want a "Stein-was", and cannot go for the expense right now of doing all the work required. I do not want to put in oversize pins as I don't want to potentially split the pin block. I was going to bring up CA Glue, but I am hesitant. Here's why:

I have another client that has an upright player piano, and had to do my first CA treatment there. When I applied the glue (no way of putting the piano on it's back for this application), I held a paper towel to prevent any dripping. To my shock and horror, when some of the glue dripped on the paper towel, it started to smoke, and then bled through to my fingers, which started to become glued. Talk about freaking out!! In the end, the piano tuned nicely, the smoke dissipated and my fingers were unstuck. However, I have not tried this method anymore.

Now I have a piano that I think could really benefit at this time from a CA treatment. I know that I will need to cover the keys under the pin block, but with what? I have since read that CA Glue does not play well with cotton or paper (that was the smoke I saw interacting with the cotton and paper fibers on the paper towel.). What have you used to prevent dripping on the piano keys below?

Many thanks for your help!!

------------------------------
Keith Gramlich
East Meadow NY
917-757-4207
------------------------------

hello Jon,
any specific reasons why you prefer gluboost over ca glues?
i've always used ca (all 3 viscosities) and have had no issues, but am open to trying different kinds.
Thank you,
Peter

------------------------------
Petrus Janssen
Peachtree City GA
678-416-8055
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-14-2022 21:31
From: Jon Page
Subject: CA Glue for loose tuning pins and smoke

GluBoost

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 02-14-2022 17:37
From: Keith Gramlich
Subject: CA Glue for loose tuning pins and smoke

So, I should have confirmed, because it looks like there maybe something to it, I was using BSI (Bob Smith Industries) CA Glue. Is there a better brand I should use?

------------------------------
Keith Gramlich
East Meadow NY
917-757-4207

Original Message:
Sent: 02-14-2022 16:55
From: Keith Gramlich
Subject: CA Glue for loose tuning pins and smoke

I would like to thank everyone that answered my post!! Very informative and a bunch to think about! I appreciate everyone's insight!!


------------------------------
Keith Gramlich
East Meadow NY
917-757-4207

Original Message:
Sent: 02-11-2022 11:32
From: Keith Gramlich
Subject: CA Glue for loose tuning pins and smoke

I have a terrific client with a S&S "S" in her house. Tuning pins are horribly loose and get much worse during the winter when the heat is on. Obviously the only real way to fix this is a new pin block. However, she doesn't want a "Stein-was", and cannot go for the expense right now of doing all the work required. I do not want to put in oversize pins as I don't want to potentially split the pin block. I was going to bring up CA Glue, but I am hesitant. Here's why:

I have another client that has an upright player piano, and had to do my first CA treatment there. When I applied the glue (no way of putting the piano on it's back for this application), I held a paper towel to prevent any dripping. To my shock and horror, when some of the glue dripped on the paper towel, it started to smoke, and then bled through to my fingers, which started to become glued. Talk about freaking out!! In the end, the piano tuned nicely, the smoke dissipated and my fingers were unstuck. However, I have not tried this method anymore.

Now I have a piano that I think could really benefit at this time from a CA treatment. I know that I will need to cover the keys under the pin block, but with what? I have since read that CA Glue does not play well with cotton or paper (that was the smoke I saw interacting with the cotton and paper fibers on the paper towel.). What have you used to prevent dripping on the piano keys below?

Many thanks for your help!!

------------------------------
Keith Gramlich
East Meadow NY
917-757-4207
------------------------------

Peter, GluBoost is a CA Glue. They have more than 3 varieties. They have better nozzles and Accelerator (doesn't turn the glue white). Their Fill & Finish is perfect for finish repairs, both black and clear. I've restored a plastic gram gage case, missing thin walls were rebuilt. They also have many associated products for touchup repairs. Check out their site.
------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-15-2022 00:00
From: Petrus Janssen
Subject: CA Glue for loose tuning pins and smoke

hello Jon,
any specific reasons why you prefer gluboost over ca glues?
i've always used ca (all 3 viscosities) and have had no issues, but am open to trying different kinds.
Thank you,
Peter

------------------------------
Petrus Janssen
Peachtree City GA
678-416-8055
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 2/11/2022 11:33:00 AM
From: Keith Gramlich
Subject: CA Glue for loose tuning pins and smoke

I have a terrific client with a S&S "S" in her house. Tuning pins are horribly loose and get much worse during the winter when the heat is on. Obviously the only real way to fix this is a new pin block. However, she doesn't want a "Stein-was", and cannot go for the expense right now of doing all the work required. I do not want to put in oversize pins as I don't want to potentially split the pin block. I was going to bring up CA Glue, but I am hesitant. Here's why:

I have another client that has an upright player piano, and had to do my first CA treatment there. When I applied the glue (no way of putting the piano on it's back for this application), I held a paper towel to prevent any dripping. To my shock and horror, when some of the glue dripped on the paper towel, it started to smoke, and then bled through to my fingers, which started to become glued. Talk about freaking out!! In the end, the piano tuned nicely, the smoke dissipated and my fingers were unstuck. However, I have not tried this method anymore.

Now I have a piano that I think could really benefit at this time from a CA treatment. I know that I will need to cover the keys under the pin block, but with what? I have since read that CA Glue does not play well with cotton or paper (that was the smoke I saw interacting with the cotton and paper fibers on the paper towel.). What have you used to prevent dripping on the piano keys below?

Many thanks for your help!!

------------------------------
Keith Gramlich
East Meadow NY
917-757-4207
------------------------------