Harpsichord

Hello,

We had a Benn harpsichord totally rebuilt 2 years ago.  All was fine until a week or so ago.  The G#-2 on one of the 8' wires now goes quite flat in about 5 minutes.  I checked the hitchpin loop and it wasn't unravelling, the tuning pin is not loose.  Does a wire just go bad?  It's a brass wire (the highest before going to steel).  It's quite puzzling.  Any thoughts?

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Paul T. Williams RPT
Piano Technician
University of Nebraska
Lincoln, NE 68588-0100
402-472-2568
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Have you considered the string may be slipping around the tuning pin, particularly if there isn't a becket hole in the tuning pin? A drop of CA glue applied to the string where it meets the tuning pin (at the the start of the winding) would stop the string from slipping around the tuning pin. 

I have never experienced a wire losing its ability to hold pitch, as a piece of wire (or it breaks very soon thereafter). It is invariably at one end or the other. Sometimes it is not obvious that a tail is unwinding, so it is always a good idea to look very carefully there, with magnification if your eyes are not extra sharp. Look at the twist to see that it is, indeed, a double helix, with each wire winding around the other. Also look at the tuning pin side. How many windings around the pin? Becket or no becket? In any case, look at that termination carefully. Failing finding anything, and with the problem persisting, I would probably change out the wire just to make sure it was all done well. But if a brass wire is "going bad" it breaks pretty much instantly, in my experience.

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Fred Sturm
fssturm@unm.edu
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Original Message:
Sent: 03-08-2011 08:37
From: Paul Williams
Subject: String gone bad?

Hello,

We had a Benn harpsichord totally rebuilt 2 years ago.  All was fine until a week or so ago.  The G#-2 on one of the 8' wires now goes quite flat in about 5 minutes.  I checked the hitchpin loop and it wasn't unravelling, the tuning pin is not loose.  Does a wire just go bad?  It's a brass wire (the highest before going to steel).  It's quite puzzling.  Any thoughts?

-------------------------------------------
Paul T. Williams RPT
Piano Technician
University of Nebraska
Lincoln, NE 68588-0100
402-472-2568
-------------------------------------------

I've experienced this problem with a string, and always found it to be a case of an unraveling hitch pin loop.  As Fred said, it can be hard to diagnose because it's too small to see happening while you're seated at the keyboard side, playing or tuning.  The same way that you could count the tuning pin coils, you could make a mark (with a dry-erase marker perhaps) noting how far the loop extends from the hitch pin, and then check it after the pitch slips again.

Fred- I wasn't able to see the photos using the built-in photo player, with the play and ff buttons, but I could download them by clicking on the name of the file in the shaded block at the top of the page.

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Zeno Wood
Brooklyn, NY
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My experience is the same as Zeno's. 

What I'd like to know is if there are any tips when making tails with steel harpsichord wire.  Ugh.  I've been able to make the tail--obviously not good enough--because it tightens around the hitch pin.
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Barbara Richmond, RPT
near Peoria, Illinois


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Original Message:
Sent: 03-09-2011 09:18
From: Zeno Wood
Subject: String gone bad?

I've experienced this problem with a string, and always found it to be a case of an unraveling hitch pin loop.  As Fred said, it can be hard to diagnose because it's too small to see happening while you're seated at the keyboard side, playing or tuning.  The same way that you could count the tuning pin coils, you could make a mark (with a dry-erase marker perhaps) noting how far the loop extends from the hitch pin, and then check it after the pitch slips again.

Fred- I wasn't able to see the photos using the built-in photo player, with the play and ff buttons, but I could download them by clicking on the name of the file in the shaded block at the top of the page.

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Zeno Wood
Brooklyn, NY
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Hi Barb, At WestPac, Mike Reiter taught tail making in his Harpsichord class. He used the hook on his tuning lever, but also mentioned a cuphook screwed into a piece of wood clamped in a vise will work as well. He made a double loop around the hook (like a german loop) and then hand hand over hand made the helix and finished with about 8-10 wraps at the top. This is probably a good place for a YouTube video. ------------------------------------------- Dave Davis, RPT Renton, WA] -------------------------------------------
Original Message: Sent: 03-09-2011 09:40 From: Barbara Richmond Subject: String gone bad? My experience is the same as Zeno's. What I'd like to know is if there are any tips when making tails with steel harpsichord wire. Ugh. I've been able to make the tail--obviously not good enough--because it tightens around the hitch pin. ------------------------------------------- Barbara Richmond, RPT near Peoria, Illinois -------------------------------------------
Original Message: Sent: 03-09-2011 09:18 From: Zeno Wood Subject: String gone bad? I've experienced this problem with a string, and always found it to be a case of an unraveling hitch pin loop. As Fred said, it can be hard to diagnose because it's too small to see happening while you're seated at the keyboard side, playing or tuning. The same way that you could count the tuning pin coils, you could make a mark (with a dry-erase marker perhaps) noting how far the loop extends from the hitch pin, and then check it after the pitch slips again. Fred- I wasn't able to see the photos using the built-in photo player, with the play and ff buttons, but I could download them by clicking on the name of the file in the shaded block at the top of the page. ------------------------------------------- Zeno Wood Brooklyn, NY -------------------------------------------

Thanks, Dave. 

Yeah, that's how I make 'em.  But, steel wire (the really thin piano wire) is so much springier.  I was wondering if there was a trick to working with it.

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Barbara Richmond, RPT
near Peoria, Illinois


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Original Message:
Sent: 03-09-2011 10:30
From: David Davis
Subject: String gone bad?

Hi Barb,

At WestPac, Mike Reiter taught tail making in his Harpsichord class. He used the hook on his tuning lever, but also mentioned a cuphook screwed into a piece of wood clamped in a vise will work as well. He made a double loop around the hook (like a german loop) and then hand hand over hand made the helix and finished with about 8-10 wraps at the top.

This is probably a good place for a YouTube video.
-------------------------------------------
Dave Davis, RPT
Renton, WA]

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I thought of 2 additional points (that you probably also know) - he has the hook anchored and holds the wire very tightly as he winds, and (2) he pre-makes several wires of each size in his shop, and carries them in his *separate* harpsichord tool bag. That way he is assured of a good hitch loop every time. Have a great day! ------------------------------------------- Dave Davis, RPT Renton, WA] -------------------------------------------
Original Message: Sent: 03-09-2011 10:37 From: Barbara Richmond Subject: String gone bad? Thanks, Dave. Yeah, that's how I make 'em. But, steel wire (the really thin piano wire) is so much springier. I was wondering if there was a trick to working with it. ------------------------------------------- Barbara Richmond, RPT near Peoria, Illinois -------------------------------------------
Original Message: Sent: 03-09-2011 10:30 From: David Davis Subject: String gone bad? Hi Barb, At WestPac, Mike Reiter taught tail making in his Harpsichord class. He used the hook on his tuning lever, but also mentioned a cuphook screwed into a piece of wood clamped in a vise will work as well. He made a double loop around the hook (like a german loop) and then hand hand over hand made the helix and finished with about 8-10 wraps at the top. This is probably a good place for a YouTube video. ------------------------------------------- Dave Davis, RPT Renton, WA] -------------------------------------------

Thanks, Dave.  I'll be sure to try again.  Excellent tip about carrying around pre-made tails.

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Barbara Richmond, RPT
near Peoria, Illinois


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Original Message:
Sent: 03-09-2011 10:48
From: David Davis
Subject: String gone bad?

I thought of 2 additional points (that you probably also know) - he has the hook anchored and holds the wire very tightly as he winds, and (2) he pre-makes several wires of each size in his shop, and carries them in his *separate* harpsichord tool bag. That way he is assured of a good hitch loop every time.

Have a great day!
-------------------------------------------
Dave Davis, RPT
Renton, WA]

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I happen to have one of those cheap metal toolboxes for my harpsichord stuff. I have a dowel with a cup hook in the end and spring clamp it to the side of that case. It can also be clamped to a table or even the side of the harpsichord in a pinch. I then use two hands on the string, one on each end.

The "trick" especially for modern wire is to be sure you are making a double helix by holding the wire ends taut at a right angle to one another, rotating one hand around the other. Watch the wire as it wraps. Magnification is a good thing for old eyes that aren't as sharp as they once were. I keep one hand holding its end, let go of the other and reach around to grab its end again. Yes, a video would be a good idea.

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Fred Sturm
fssturm@unm.edu
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Original Message:
Sent: 03-09-2011 10:37
From: Barbara Richmond
Subject: String gone bad?

Thanks, Dave. 

Yeah, that's how I make 'em.  But, steel wire (the really thin piano wire) is so much springier.  I was wondering if there was a trick to working with it.

Original Message:
Sent: 03-09-2011 09:18
From: Zeno Wood
Subject: String gone bad?

Fred- I wasn't able to see the photos using the built-in photo player, with the play and ff buttons, but I could download them by clicking on the name of the file in the shaded block at the top of the page.

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Zeno Wood
Brooklyn, NY
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Yes, I tried that just now, and it didn't work for me either. Something buggy in the software I guess, since they are jpegs (supported) and are there. My first try at uploading photos, the T-118 front panel thing, worked fine with the viewer.
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Fred Sturm
fssturm@unm.edu
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Zeno and Fred,

Thanks for the input.  I'm still puzzled that the harpsichord had been restrung 2 years ago, held wonderfully, and then all of the sudden, this one wire whether at either end just decides to go bad.  Have you experienced this at all?

-------------------------------------------
Paul T. Williams RPT
Piano Technician
University of Nebraska
Lincoln, NE 68588-0100
402-472-2568
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 03-09-2011 09:18
From: Zeno Wood
Subject: String gone bad?

I've experienced this problem with a string, and always found it to be a case of an unraveling hitch pin loop.  As Fred said, it can be hard to diagnose because it's too small to see happening while you're seated at the keyboard side, playing or tuning.  The same way that you could count the tuning pin coils, you could make a mark (with a dry-erase marker perhaps) noting how far the loop extends from the hitch pin, and then check it after the pitch slips again.

Fred- I wasn't able to see the photos using the built-in photo player, with the play and ff buttons, but I could download them by clicking on the name of the file in the shaded block at the top of the page.

-------------------------------------------
Zeno Wood
Brooklyn, NY
-------------------------------------------

In a word, yes. A borderline tail can hold a good while, then begin to fail.
-------------------------------------------
Fred Sturm
fssturm@unm.edu
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 03-09-2011 11:32
From: Paul Williams
Subject: String gone bad?

Zeno and Fred,

Thanks for the input.  I'm still puzzled that the harpsichord had been restrung 2 years ago, held wonderfully, and then all of the sudden, this one wire whether at either end just decides to go bad.  Have you experienced this at all?

-------------------------------------------
Paul T. Williams RPT
Piano Technician
University of Nebraska
Lincoln, NE 68588-0100
402-472-2568
-------------------------------------------

I'd like to expand on the tail failure phenomenon a bit. At UNM, the university where I have worked for 25 years, we have a double manual Hubbard that was built from a kit in 1975 by a grad student (his assistantship project). It was reasonably well-built in all respects, and was used a lot in the late 70s and early 80s. I started working there in 1986, ten years after the harpsichord was built. That first year I got a complaint about a string that wasn't holding, in connection with a concert tuning request. The tail was failing. I repaired it by tying a new tail.

That is an interesting process: necessity drove me to it as I had no spare wire and was tuning for a concert that night. So I backed off some tension, holding the string tight with one hand to keep the coils intact, pulled the tail off the hitch pin, undid the remains of the tail, tied a German tail (which uses less wire), put it on and tightened it up. (All of this is a little tricky to do with one hand mostly, but it is possible). It held.

Over the next few years, another string would start slipping from time to time. Finally I took the time to examine every single tail closely, and tied new tails on every string that had slipped a wee bit, or with a tail that looked like it wasn't twisted tightly enough. Haven't had another one slip since then.

But the moral of the story is that borderline tails can hold on for years before failing. And it is possible to tie a new tail - which does reduce tuning instability from a newly installed string.

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Fred Sturm
fssturm@unm.edu
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Original Message:
Sent: 03-09-2011 12:05
From: Fred Sturm
Subject: String gone bad?

In a word, yes. A borderline tail can hold a good while, then begin to fail.
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Fred Sturm
fssturm@unm.edu
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 03-09-2011 11:32
From: Paul Williams
Subject: String gone bad?

Zeno and Fred,

Thanks for the input.  I'm still puzzled that the harpsichord had been restrung 2 years ago, held wonderfully, and then all of the sudden, this one wire whether at either end just decides to go bad.  Have you experienced this at all?

-------------------------------------------
Paul T. Williams RPT
Piano Technician
University of Nebraska
Lincoln, NE 68588-0100
402-472-2568
-------------------------------------------

Fred,

I found your harpsichord story interesting because at OBU (Oklahoma Baptist University), the university I service and have since 1978, there is a 3 choir, double manual harpsichord that was built from a kit by William Neptune, then Vice-President for Academic Affairs. It was dedicated in 1975 and has been in use to this very day.

Here are some links to some pics and video clips of that dedication and harpsichord:
http://pianostuff.kamcam.com/obu/mcgavernharpsichord/hp.html  (dedication pics)
http://pianostuff.kamcam.com/obu/mcgavernharpsichord/pics.clips/hp.html (other pics and video clips)

Also, I am attaching one pic illustrating the making of a hitch pin loop and winding the string on the tuning pin, and another pic showing a traditional harpsichord tuning lever.

Keith

Keith McGavern, RPT
Shawnee, Oklahoma, USA
www.soonertuner.kamcam.com
www.pianostuff.kamcam.com
tune-repair@allegiance.tv
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From: Fred Sturm
Subject: String gone bad?

...  At UNM, the university where I have worked for 25 years, we have a double manual Hubbard that was built from a kit in 1975 by a grad student (his assistantship project). It was reasonably well-built in all respects, and was used a lot in the late 70s and early 80s. I started working there in 1986, ten years after the harpsichord was built. That first year I got a complaint about a string that wasn't holding, in connection with a concert tuning request. The tail was failing. I repaired it by tying a new tail. ...

Correction on posted link.

http://pianostuff.kamcam.com/obu/mcgavernharpsichord/hp.html
(dedication pics)

Keith McGavern