PianoTech Archive

From Vanderhoofven <dkvander@clandjop.com>

Dear Friends,

I did some work tuning and regulating a newer upright piano.  I was pleased
with everything I did except the adjustment of the sostenuto pedal, which
was screwed up to begin with.  After 2 hours of work on the sostenuto, it
is now slightly less bad!  This was my first time ever to work on an
upright sostenuto, and I don't feel good about charging the customer to
learn to do something new, especially when the results were much less than
satisfactory.

How would you handle a situation like this?

I know that a doctor would go ahead and charge, even if his patient didn't
get any better, but I don't feel right in doing that.  My "patient" didn't
get better, and I feel that the customer should pay for results.

Any suggestions?

Sincerely,
David


David A. Vanderhoofven, RPT
Joplin, Missouri, USA        
e-mail:  dkvander@clandjop.com

web page:  http://www.clandjop.com/~dkvander/
#pianotech page:  http://www.clandjop.com/~dkvander/ircpiano.html

From "David ilvedson" <ilvey@a.crl.com>

> Date:          Fri, 15 Aug 1997 19:58:03 -0400 (EDT)
> From:          Les Smith <lessmith@buffnet.net>
> To:            pianotech@ptg.org
> Subject:       Re: billing
> Reply-to:      pianotech@ptg.org

I think Les has some good points, but let's remember when we are 
learning a new skill it will take sometime to be efficient.  
Don't overcharge the customer because of your lack of skill and 
experience.  Get an idea from the list on how long it might take 
and charge accordingly even if it takes you longer.  This is an 
opportunity to get paid something to learn/experience a new 
skill!  Can't beat that...

David ilvedson, RPT
Pacifica, CA


> 
> 
> On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Vanderhoofven wrote:
> 
> > I know that a doctor would go ahead and charge, even if his patient didn't
> > get any better, but I don't feel right in doing that.  My "patient" didn't
> > get better, and I feel that the customer should pay for results.
> > 
> > Any suggestions?
> 
> Yeah. The doctor goes ahead and charges, even if the patient DIES! Give
> the customer a break on what you charge for the pedal-work if you like--
> like charge him for one hour, instead of two--but charge SOMETHING!. Don't
> ever sell yourself short, or work for free. My feeling is that you gave it
> your best shot and that that deserves compensation. Sometimes piano tech-
> nicians have a tendency to forget that they are businessmen and women.
> A customer smiling, slapping you on the back and saying "Gee, thanks for
> the two hours of free work" won't pay your bills! 
> 
> In the future, if you come up against a problem like the upright sos-
> tenuto mechanism which you're worried about you ability to handle, claim
> time constraints, charge and get paid for the tuning and tell the customer
> that you'll have to come back the next time you're in the area. That will
> give you time to check with the list here, some other local techs, or
> even a text or two that will tell you what you need to know to perform
> the needed service. Then go back, do the work, AND GET PAID! :)
> 
> Les Smith  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
ilvey
Pacifica, CA
ilvey@a.crl.com

From Les Smith <lessmith@buffnet.net>

On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Vanderhoofven wrote:

> I know that a doctor would go ahead and charge, even if his patient didn't
> get any better, but I don't feel right in doing that.  My "patient" didn't
> get better, and I feel that the customer should pay for results.
> 
> Any suggestions?

Yeah. The doctor goes ahead and charges, even if the patient DIES! Give
the customer a break on what you charge for the pedal-work if you like--
like charge him for one hour, instead of two--but charge SOMETHING!. Don't
ever sell yourself short, or work for free. My feeling is that you gave it
your best shot and that that deserves compensation. Sometimes piano tech-
nicians have a tendency to forget that they are businessmen and women.
A customer smiling, slapping you on the back and saying "Gee, thanks for
the two hours of free work" won't pay your bills! 

In the future, if you come up against a problem like the upright sos-
tenuto mechanism which you're worried about you ability to handle, claim
time constraints, charge and get paid for the tuning and tell the customer
that you'll have to come back the next time you're in the area. That will
give you time to check with the list here, some other local techs, or
even a text or two that will tell you what you need to know to perform
the needed service. Then go back, do the work, AND GET PAID! :)

Les Smith  

From JIMRPT@aol.com

David;
"After 2 hours of work on the sostenuto, it
is now slightly less bad!  This was my first time ever to work on an
upright sostenuto, and I don't feel good about charging the customer to
learn to do something new, especially when the results were much less than
satisfactory."

  Follow your conscience on this one, it will be around long after the money
is gone.  
a. What about the improvement you did make on the sustenuto?  
b. What about the time you spent trying to make, what might have been, a
marginal system work in a manner to satisfy yourself?  
c. In order for those upright systems to function correctly 'all' of the
regulation must be awfully close to optimal to begin with....was your
customer willing to pay for this work to be done? 
d. Is it a better functioning instrument now that you have left it than it
was before you worked on it ?
c.  Was the customer pleased with the results?
Just a thought, and some questions......
Jim Bryant (FL)

From MHoffman11@aol.com

Hello listees:

In a message dated 97-08-16 00:18:00 EDT Les wrote:

<< Yeah. The doctor goes ahead and charges, even if the patient DIES! Give
 > the customer a break on what you charge for the pedal-work if you like--
 > like charge him for one hour, instead of two--but charge SOMETHING!. Don't
 > ever sell yourself short, or work for free. My feeling is that you gave it
 > your best shot and that that deserves compensation. Sometimes piano tech-
 > nicians have a tendency to forget that they are businessmen and women.
 > A customer smiling, slapping you on the back and saying "Gee, thanks for
 > the two hours of free work" won't pay your bills!  >>

I can second that!!

Just yesterday, I encountered my first Louis Zwicki spinet (drop-action,
Renner parts, Schwander butts; scale from C1 to C8).  I've tuned more than
11,000 pianos and ain't never seen one like this critter.  The owner said it
was Danish made.   Anyway, the tuning pins are positioned like a grand piano,
and there's an incredible bend (nearly 90 degrees) after the string leaves
the pin and an incredible length of string (high treble, especially)  before
it gets to the capo bar/speaking length area.  Makes for difficult string
setting, at least for me.  I'm sure if I had the opportunity to tune more of
them, I would adapt to the quirkiness.  

Did I charge more for a difficult tuning (although I had no experience with
this design)?  You bet I did.  Did I do a good job?  As best as I could.
 Does it bother me knowing that the customer paid for the learning curve?
 Sure...but not as much as it would bother me to NOT charge for doing the
best I could!

She liked the tuning; I liked the opportunity to widen my piano experience
with a foreign made instrument.  All's well that ends well.


Stay Tuned!

Mike Hoffman, RPT
Marquette, MI

From "Lance Lafargue" <lafargue@iAmerica.net>

I would find out if the instrument is still under warranty, learn from the
manufacturer what they suggest and charge the maker of this "sostenuto"
system for your time to learn how to fix it.  The buyer paid extra for this
rare feature, and it doesn't work.  
Lance Lafargue, RPT
New Orleans Chapter
Covington, LA.
lafargue@iamerica.net

----------
> From: Vanderhoofven <dkvander@clandjop.com>
> To: pianotech@ptg.org
> Subject: billing
> Date: Friday, August 15, 1997 4:58 PM
> 
> Dear Friends,
> 
> I did some work tuning and regulating a newer upright piano.  I was
pleased
> with everything I did except the adjustment of the sostenuto pedal, which
> was screwed up to begin with.  After 2 hours of work on the sostenuto, it
> is now slightly less bad!  This was my first time ever to work on an
> upright sostenuto, and I don't feel good about charging the customer to
> learn to do something new, especially when the results were much less
than
> satisfactory.
> 
> How would you handle a situation like this?
> 
> I know that a doctor would go ahead and charge, even if his patient
didn't
> get any better, but I don't feel right in doing that.  My "patient"
didn't
> get better, and I feel that the customer should pay for results.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> Sincerely,
> David
> 
> 
> David A. Vanderhoofven, RPT
> Joplin, Missouri, USA        
> e-mail:  dkvander@clandjop.com
> 
> web page:  http://www.clandjop.com/~dkvander/
> #pianotech page:  http://www.clandjop.com/~dkvander/ircpiano.html
> 

From Vanderhoofven <dkvander@clandjop.com>

At 08:07 AM 8/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>I would find out if the instrument is still under warranty, learn from the
>manufacturer what they suggest and charge the maker of this "sostenuto"
>system for your time to learn how to fix it.  The buyer paid extra for this
>rare feature, and it doesn't work.  
>Lance Lafargue, RPT
>New Orleans Chapter
>Covington, LA.
>lafargue@iamerica.net

Dear Lance,

This piano is a four year old Steinway model 45 upright.  The dealer that
sold it is very reputable and gives good service.  The piano is still under
warranty, but this is not warranty work.  It is my belief that "someone"
messed with the action and screwed up the dampers and sostenuto.  There are
many strange markings in ink such as numbers, letters and other markings of
some sort or other on most of the damper barrels.  No one at the college
claims knowledge of either the strange markings, or of "adjusting" the
dampers and sostenuto.  It is the belief of the dealer and of the college
administrator in charge of the pianos that this piano was used for some
sort of prepared music, but no one will confess to having abused the piano
in this way.

Lance, thank you for your input.  If I thought that this was a warranty
matter, I would have talked to the dealer first.  The dealer had already
inspected the piano and recommended me to do the work.  So the dealer was
well aware of the nature of the problem.

By the way, I made another trip to the piano, and in two hours was able to
make the sostenuto work to my satisfaction.  Thanks for all of the help!

Sincerely,
David


David A. Vanderhoofven, RPT
Joplin, Missouri, USA        
e-mail:  dkvander@clandjop.com

web page:  http://www.clandjop.com/~dkvander/
#pianotech page:  http://www.clandjop.com/~dkvander/ircpiano.html