PianoTech Archive

From Matthew Todd <toddpianoworks@att.net>

Hi,
   
  On p. 9 of this issues journal, can you explain the temperature/tuning fork relationship?  What is the purpose of being able to keep track of it's temperature?  Also, what is the best way to store a tuning fork, and how do you get it calibrated?
   
   
  Many thanks,
  Matthew

From "paul bruesch" <paul@bruesch.net>

Like everything else, but particularly item made of steel, tuning forks
expand and contract as the temperature rises and falls.

If one is to become an RPT, one needs to know at what precise temperature
one's fork rings a true 440. In order to calibrate it, one must file the
bottom of the slot (to make the tines longer) to flatten the fork, or file
the tips to shorten the tines and sharpen the pitch.

A fine tuning fork should always be stored, when not actually in use, in a
velvet-lined leather sleeve, which in turn is kept in a humidor box for
precise humidity and temperature maintenance.

On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 8:21 PM, Matthew Todd <toddpianoworks@att.net>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On p. 9 of this issues journal, can you explain the temperature/tuning fork
> relationship?  What is the purpose of being able to keep track of it's
> temperature?  Also, what is the best way to store a tuning fork, and how do
> you get it calibrated?
>
>
> Many thanks,
> Matthew
>

From Robert Scott <fixthatpiano@yahoo.com>

Matthew,

I have an article on my website about calibrating tuning forks.  See:

   www.tunelab-world.com/calforks.html

Robert Scott
Ypsilanti, Michigan



      

From "Ed  Sutton" <ed440@mindspring.com>

See p. 18 of the same issue (July).
A good fork (such as the Walker forks) will have a specified calibration temperature.
Some technicians prefer to calibrate the fork to a pocket temperature.
See www.tunelab-world.com for calibration instructions.
Ed Sutton
  

                                                

					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
                                                

                                                    
                                                        
                                                        Original Message
                                                
                                                 Original Message ----- 
  From: Matthew Todd 
  To: pianotech@ptg.org 
  Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 9:21 PM
  Subject: Temperature and the Tuning Fork


  Hi,

  On p. 9 of this issues journal, can you explain the temperature/tuning fork relationship?  What is the purpose of being able to keep track of it's temperature?  Also, what is the best way to store a tuning fork, and how do you get it calibrated?


  Many thanks,
  Matthew

From Andrew and Rebeca  Anderson <anrebe@sbcglobal.net>

I have one of those forks and I did calibrate it to my shirt-pocket 
temperature.  It seems to be the only way to "guarantee" as 
reasonably regular pitch (human bodies, barring illness, are finely 
temperature regulated).  What is interesting is how fast the pitch 
can change in a fork, particularly in a cute little thin one.

Andrew Anderson

At 08:17 AM 6/27/2008, you wrote:
>See p. 18 of the same issue (July).
>A good fork (such as the Walker forks) will have a specified 
>calibration temperature.
>Some technicians prefer to calibrate the fork to a pocket temperature.
>See <http://www.tunelab-world.com>www.tunelab-world.com for 
>calibration instructions.
>Ed Sutton
>

                                                

					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
                                                

                                                    
                                                        
                                                        Original Message
                                                
                                                 Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:toddpianoworks@att.net>Matthew Todd
>To: <mailto:pianotech@ptg.org>pianotech@ptg.org
>Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 9:21 PM
>Subject: Temperature and the Tuning Fork
>
>Hi,
>
>On p. 9 of this issues journal, can you explain the 
>temperature/tuning fork relationship?  What is the purpose of being 
>able to keep track of it's temperature?  Also, what is the best way 
>to store a tuning fork, and how do you get it calibrated?
>
>
>Many thanks,
>Matthew

From "Ed  Sutton" <ed440@mindspring.com>

Andrew-

I use the heavyweight Walker fork. It's calibrated to my pocket. I carry it in a leather pouch with an aquarium thermometer stuck to the pouch. At 82 degrees Farenheit it's accurate with two tenths of a cent, and it holds its temperature reasonably well.

For the tuning exam, it's probably best to get an electronic A440.

Ed Sutton
  

                                                

					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
                                                

                                                    
                                                        
                                                        Original Message
                                                
                                                 Original Message ----- 
  From: Andrew and Rebeca Anderson 
  To: Ed Sutton ; Pianotech List 
  Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 12:10 PM
  Subject: Re: Temperature and the Tuning Fork


  I have one of those forks and I did calibrate it to my shirt-pocket temperature.  It seems to be the only way to "guarantee" as reasonably regular pitch (human bodies, barring illness, are finely temperature regulated).  What is interesting is how fast the pitch can change in a fork, particularly in a cute little thin one.

  Andrew Anderson

  At 08:17 AM 6/27/2008, you wrote:

    See p. 18 of the same issue (July).
    A good fork (such as the Walker forks) will have a specified calibration temperature.
    Some technicians prefer to calibrate the fork to a pocket temperature.
    See www.tunelab-world.com for calibration instructions.
    Ed Sutton

      
                                            

From Jonathan Best <jb@bubblemusic.com>

I'm going to import a 440 tone  mp3 file into my palm pilot next time  
I feel technically inclined.

Jonathan Best
jb@bubblemusic.com
928-830-4887
www.bubblemusic.com




On Jun 27, 2008, at 6:43 PM, Ed Sutton wrote:

> Andrew-
>
> I use the heavyweight Walker fork. It's calibrated to my pocket. I  
> carry it in a leather pouch with an aquarium thermometer stuck to  
> the pouch. At 82 degrees Farenheit it's accurate with two tenths of  
> a cent, and it holds its temperature reasonably well.
>
> For the tuning exam, it's probably best to get an electronic A440.
>
> Ed Sutton
> 

                                                

					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
                                                

                                                    
                                                        
                                                        Original Message
                                                
                                                 Original Message -----
> From: Andrew and Rebeca Anderson
> To: Ed Sutton ; Pianotech List
> Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 12:10 PM
> Subject: Re: Temperature and the Tuning Fork
>
> I have one of those forks and I did calibrate it to my shirt-pocket  
> temperature.  It seems to be the only way to "guarantee" as  
> reasonably regular pitch (human bodies, barring illness, are finely  
> temperature regulated).  What is interesting is how fast the pitch  
> can change in a fork, particularly in a cute little thin one.
>
> Andrew Anderson
>
> At 08:17 AM 6/27/2008, you wrote:
>> See p. 18 of the same issue (July).
>> A good fork (such as the Walker forks) will have a specified  
>> calibration temperature.
>> Some technicians prefer to calibrate the fork to a pocket  
>> temperature.
>> See www.tunelab-world.com for calibration instructions.
>> Ed Sutton
>> 
 Original Message -----
>> From: Matthew Todd
>> To: pianotech@ptg.org
>> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 9:21 PM
>> Subject: Temperature and the Tuning Fork
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> On p. 9 of this issues journal, can you explain the temperature/ 
>> tuning fork relationship?  What is the purpose of being able to  
>> keep track of it's temperature?  Also, what is the best way to  
>> store a tuning fork, and how do you get it calibrated?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Many thanks,
>> Matthew
>
>

From Robert Scott <fixthatpiano@yahoo.com>

Ed Sutton wrote:

>  For the tuning exam, it's probably best to get an electronic A440.

But if you use an electronic A-440, be careful of harmonics.  Most electronic tone generators have strong 2nd and 3rd harmonics.  These harmonics will beat with the 2nd and 3rd partial of A4.  And due to inharmonicity, these beats will not go to zero at the same tuning as when the fundamental beats go to zero.  You can train yourself to focus on the fundamental and ignore the 2nd and 3rd partials, but it may not be easy.  If you tune to the 3rd partial you could be off by half a cent at the fundamental, and the fundamental is where you will be evaluated for the setting of A4 in the tuning test.  However a tuning fork is almost pure, so the only beat you will hear is the fundamental.

Robert Scott
Ypsilanti, Michigan



      

From "Ed  Sutton" <ed440@mindspring.com>

Quite right. Jim Coleman has turned this to an advantage: Don't ignore the 
partials, intentionally listen to the third partial of the electronic fork 
and make sure it's beating between 3 and 4 bps on the flat side with the A4 
string (Check with C4). Add this to one or two of the traditional checks at 
440Hz and you have a very accurate method.

Ed Sutton




                                                

					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
                                                

                                                    
                                                        
                                                        Original Message
                                                
                                                 Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Scott" <fixthatpiano@yahoo.com>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: Temperature and the Tuning Fork


> Ed Sutton wrote:
>
>>  For the tuning exam, it's probably best to get an electronic A440.
>
> But if you use an electronic A-440, be careful of harmonics.  Most 
> electronic tone generators have strong 2nd and 3rd harmonics.  These 
> harmonics will beat with the 2nd and 3rd partial of A4.  And due to 
> inharmonicity, these beats will not go to zero at the same tuning as when 
> the fundamental beats go to zero.  You can train yourself to focus on the 
> fundamental and ignore the 2nd and 3rd partials, but it may not be easy. 
> If you tune to the 3rd partial you could be off by half a cent at the 
> fundamental, and the fundamental is where you will be evaluated for the 
> setting of A4 in the tuning test.  However a tuning fork is almost pure, 
> so the only beat you will hear is the fundamental.
>
> Robert Scott
> Ypsilanti, Michigan
>
>
>
>
>
> 

From Jonathan Best <jb@bubblemusic.com>

Good point.  I will get a sine wave off my computer.


On Jun 28, 2008, at 4:19 AM, Robert Scott wrote:

> Ed Sutton wrote:
>
>>  For the tuning exam, it's probably best to get an electronic A440.
>
> But if you use an electronic A-440, be careful of harmonics.  Most  
> electronic tone generators have strong 2nd and 3rd harmonics.   
> These harmonics will beat with the 2nd and 3rd partial of A4.  And  
> due to inharmonicity, these beats will not go to zero at the same  
> tuning as when the fundamental beats go to zero.  You can train  
> yourself to focus on the fundamental and ignore the 2nd and 3rd  
> partials, but it may not be easy.  If you tune to the 3rd partial  
> you could be off by half a cent at the fundamental, and the  
> fundamental is where you will be evaluated for the setting of A4 in  
> the tuning test.  However a tuning fork is almost pure, so the only  
> beat you will hear is the fundamental.
>
> Robert Scott
> Ypsilanti, Michigan
>
>
>
>

From Robert Scott <fixthatpiano@yahoo.com>

Johnathan Best wrote:

> I'm going to import a 440 tone  mp3 file into my palm pilot
> next time I feel technically inclined.

Palm pilots, Pocket PCs, MP3 players, and soundcards in computers all have a potential problem with calibration.  These devices will playback sound files at the correct pitch only if the quartz crystal that controls their playback speed just happens to be exactly correct.  I have often found these devices to be a few cents off.  So before you trust the pitch of a sound file being played back, check the playback on your particular device against a known-good ETD.

Robert Scott
Ypsilant, Michigan



      

From ""Rafael M. Huberman Mu?iz"" <rafahuberman@prodigy.net.mx>

what about a peterson VT-1 (virtual strobe)? Would this be more  
acurate? Can you set the A-440 in a tuning exam with this device?

Rafael


_________________________

Rafael M. Huberman Mu?iz

ArtePiano
Jazmines #309, Col. Reforma
Oaxaca, Oax. CP 68050
M?xico
+52(951)5152629
044(951)507-0960

From Robert Scott <fixthatpiano@yahoo.com>

Rafael M. Huberman Mu?iz wrote:

> what about a peterson VT-1 (virtual strobe)? Would this be
> more acurate? Can you set the A-440 in a tuning exam with this
> device?

Yes, it would be more accurate, because they trim them at the factory to within 0.1 cents.  However you cannot use this to set the A-440 on the tuning exam because the tuning exam specifically excludes visual tuning devices from this part of the test.  You must demonstrate that you can match A4 to a tone source by listening alone.

Robert Scott
Ypsilanti, Michigan



      

From ""Rafael M. Huberman Mu?iz"" <rafahuberman@prodigy.net.mx>

Ah! OK, got it!
'
Thanks,

Rafael


_________________________

Rafael M. Huberman Mu?iz

ArtePiano
Jazmines #309, Col. Reforma
Oaxaca, Oax. CP 68050
M?xico
+52(951)5152629
044(951)507-0960