Pianotech

I have a salvaged ivory key top and key with a chip in the old ivory top.  I've removed the old top.  The glue wafer came off with the top, so there is bare, but smooth key top wood showing.  Short of buying a new glue wafer, what could I use to paint, or cover the top to make it white before gluing on the new unchipped salvaged top?  If I don't whiten the key, then the new top will look yellower than it already is.  Other questions:  if I paint on a white coloring, what will that do to the glue joint?  What glue is best for this purpose?  I've used gel super glue in the past which seems to work just fine.  But in those cases, the glue wafer remained and so there was already white to glue underneath the reglued top.  I've heard that white out is a good paint, but can I then use the super glue?  Are they compatible?  Should I start with white paper?  Would a spray adhesive of some sort be workable?  I just don't want to have to redo the process so I hope there's someone out there with proven methods.

-------------------------------------------
Richard West
Lincoln NE
402-477-7198
rwest1@unl.edu
-------------------------------------------

I'm going to go ahead and suggest that you never ever use superglue to glue a keytop on. Ever.

As for the best glue for ivory adhesion, I use clear melamine adhesive mixed with titanium dioxide powder so that it dries white.

Good luck!

-------------------------------------------
Richard Cromwell
Keyboard & Action Design/Fabrication
Pianotek Supply Co.
Clawson, MI
1-800-347-3854

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Original Message:
Sent: 01-18-2012 15:45
From: Richard West
Subject: gluing ivory

I have a salvaged ivory key top and key with a chip in the old ivory top.  I've removed the old top.  The glue wafer came off with the top, so there is bare, but smooth key top wood showing.  Short of buying a new glue wafer, what could I use to paint, or cover the top to make it white before gluing on the new unchipped salvaged top?  If I don't whiten the key, then the new top will look yellower than it already is.  Other questions:  if I paint on a white coloring, what will that do to the glue joint?  What glue is best for this purpose?  I've used gel super glue in the past which seems to work just fine.  But in those cases, the glue wafer remained and so there was already white to glue underneath the reglued top.  I've heard that white out is a good paint, but can I then use the super glue?  Are they compatible?  Should I start with white paper?  Would a spray adhesive of some sort be workable?  I just don't want to have to redo the process so I hope there's someone out there with proven methods.

-------------------------------------------
Richard West
Lincoln NE
402-477-7198
rwest1@unl.edu
-------------------------------------------

Okay, I'll bite.  Since you didn't give a reason, I have to ask why not use super glue?  Secondly, are the adhesive and powder readily available at your corner hardware?
-------------------------------------------
Richard West
Lincoln NE
402-477-7198
rwest1@unl.edu
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 01-18-2012 15:59
From: Richard Cromwell
Subject: gluing ivory

I'm going to go ahead and suggest that you never ever use superglue to glue a keytop on. Ever.

As for the best glue for ivory adhesion, I use clear melamine adhesive mixed with titanium dioxide powder so that it dries white.

Good luck!

-------------------------------------------
Richard Cromwell
Keyboard & Action Design/Fabrication
Pianotek Supply Co.
Clawson, MI
1-800-347-3854

-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 01-18-2012 15:45
From: Richard West
Subject: gluing ivory

I have a salvaged ivory key top and key with a chip in the old ivory top.  I've removed the old top.  The glue wafer came off with the top, so there is bare, but smooth key top wood showing.  Short of buying a new glue wafer, what could I use to paint, or cover the top to make it white before gluing on the new unchipped salvaged top?  If I don't whiten the key, then the new top will look yellower than it already is.  Other questions:  if I paint on a white coloring, what will that do to the glue joint?  What glue is best for this purpose?  I've used gel super glue in the past which seems to work just fine.  But in those cases, the glue wafer remained and so there was already white to glue underneath the reglued top.  I've heard that white out is a good paint, but can I then use the super glue?  Are they compatible?  Should I start with white paper?  Would a spray adhesive of some sort be workable?  I just don't want to have to redo the process so I hope there's someone out there with proven methods.

-------------------------------------------
Richard West
Lincoln NE
402-477-7198
rwest1@unl.edu
-------------------------------------------

Hi Richard,

I've also tried superglue to no avail.  Not that it doesn't hold, but, like on Dr Clinton's plastic keytops, where it is not connected, there it clicks! and then, hard to fix!  I would pick something that is spread over the entire keytop for a sure fit all over.  I dread trying to correct the quick fixes I've done upstairs. I've had better luck with contact cement! I'm sure some will poo that fix too.

-------------------------------------------
Paul T. Williams RPT
Piano Technician
University of Nebraska
Lincoln, NE 68588-0100
pwilliams4@unl.edu
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Original Message:
Sent: 01-18-2012 16:21
From: Richard West
Subject: gluing ivory

Okay, I'll bite.  Since you didn't give a reason, I have to ask why not use super glue?  Secondly, are the adhesive and powder readily available at your corner hardware?
-------------------------------------------
Richard West
Lincoln NE
402-477-7198
rwest1@unl.edu
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 01-18-2012 15:59
From: Richard Cromwell
Subject: gluing ivory

I'm going to go ahead and suggest that you never ever use superglue to glue a keytop on. Ever.

As for the best glue for ivory adhesion, I use clear melamine adhesive mixed with titanium dioxide powder so that it dries white.

Good luck!

-------------------------------------------
Richard Cromwell
Keyboard & Action Design/Fabrication
Pianotek Supply Co.
Clawson, MI
1-800-347-3854

-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 01-18-2012 15:45
From: Richard West
Subject: gluing ivory

I have a salvaged ivory key top and key with a chip in the old ivory top.  I've removed the old top.  The glue wafer came off with the top, so there is bare, but smooth key top wood showing.  Short of buying a new glue wafer, what could I use to paint, or cover the top to make it white before gluing on the new unchipped salvaged top?  If I don't whiten the key, then the new top will look yellower than it already is.  Other questions:  if I paint on a white coloring, what will that do to the glue joint?  What glue is best for this purpose?  I've used gel super glue in the past which seems to work just fine.  But in those cases, the glue wafer remained and so there was already white to glue underneath the reglued top.  I've heard that white out is a good paint, but can I then use the super glue?  Are they compatible?  Should I start with white paper?  Would a spray adhesive of some sort be workable?  I just don't want to have to redo the process so I hope there's someone out there with proven methods.

-------------------------------------------
Richard West
Lincoln NE
402-477-7198
rwest1@unl.edu
-------------------------------------------

I suggest that you don't use super glue because it isn't reversible. If you mess up and don't get the top alignment right, or if down the road some other tech has to remove that keytop to replace it, more than likely there is going to be a pretty big problem that was completely avoidable.

Titanium dioxide powder is available at any art-supply store and melamine adhesive is used by guys who install counter-tops, a good hardware store should have it.

For what its worth, I've used the old field repair "white-out/PVC-E glue" fix in a pinch. :-)

-------------------------------------------
Richard Cromwell
Keyboard & Action Design/Fabrication
Pianotek Supply Co.
Clawson, MI
1-800-347-3854

-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 01-18-2012 16:21
From: Richard West
Subject: gluing ivory

Okay, I'll bite.  Since you didn't give a reason, I have to ask why not use super glue?  Secondly, are the adhesive and powder readily available at your corner hardware?
-------------------------------------------
Richard West
Lincoln NE
402-477-7198
rwest1@unl.edu
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 01-18-2012 15:59
From: Richard Cromwell
Subject: gluing ivory

I'm going to go ahead and suggest that you never ever use superglue to glue a keytop on. Ever.

As for the best glue for ivory adhesion, I use clear melamine adhesive mixed with titanium dioxide powder so that it dries white.

Good luck!

-------------------------------------------
Richard Cromwell
Keyboard & Action Design/Fabrication
Pianotek Supply Co.
Clawson, MI
1-800-347-3854

-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 01-18-2012 15:45
From: Richard West
Subject: gluing ivory

I have a salvaged ivory key top and key with a chip in the old ivory top.  I've removed the old top.  The glue wafer came off with the top, so there is bare, but smooth key top wood showing.  Short of buying a new glue wafer, what could I use to paint, or cover the top to make it white before gluing on the new unchipped salvaged top?  If I don't whiten the key, then the new top will look yellower than it already is.  Other questions:  if I paint on a white coloring, what will that do to the glue joint?  What glue is best for this purpose?  I've used gel super glue in the past which seems to work just fine.  But in those cases, the glue wafer remained and so there was already white to glue underneath the reglued top.  I've heard that white out is a good paint, but can I then use the super glue?  Are they compatible?  Should I start with white paper?  Would a spray adhesive of some sort be workable?  I just don't want to have to redo the process so I hope there's someone out there with proven methods.

-------------------------------------------
Richard West
Lincoln NE
402-477-7198
rwest1@unl.edu
-------------------------------------------

Hello Richard,

Schaff has a list of ivory restoration products, including brass plates that can be heated for adhesive.
They got the website I never use.
http://www.schaffpiano.com/products.html 

In the catalogue, 
p. 59 you got the head plate and tail plate, which are to be heated for adhesive, with appended screw clamps 
p. 101 you have used ivory when available, polish, p. 102 ivory white paint/stain
p. 157 you have ivory cement wafers for gluing with heat application

A local technician uses dental products for chips and cracks. Speak or let me have credit for the idea. 

Ivories tend to curl with regular glue. I still do it sometimes, and regret it. Can get you a keytop replacement job though.

Good luck!

Ben 



-------------------------------------------
Benjamin Sloane
Cincinnati OH
513-257-8480
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Original Message:
Sent: 01-18-2012 15:45
From: Richard West
Subject: gluing ivory

I have a salvaged ivory key top and key with a chip in the old ivory top.  I've removed the old top.  The glue wafer came off with the top, so there is bare, but smooth key top wood showing.  Short of buying a new glue wafer, what could I use to paint, or cover the top to make it white before gluing on the new unchipped salvaged top?  If I don't whiten the key, then the new top will look yellower than it already is.  Other questions:  if I paint on a white coloring, what will that do to the glue joint?  What glue is best for this purpose?  I've used gel super glue in the past which seems to work just fine.  But in those cases, the glue wafer remained and so there was already white to glue underneath the reglued top.  I've heard that white out is a good paint, but can I then use the super glue?  Are they compatible?  Should I start with white paper?  Would a spray adhesive of some sort be workable?  I just don't want to have to redo the process so I hope there's someone out there with proven methods.

-------------------------------------------
Richard West
Lincoln NE
402-477-7198
rwest1@unl.edu
-------------------------------------------

CA glue is not reversible, and contact cement does not allow repositioning before it sticks...you get one shot at getting it on straight.
PVE-E glue allows you to move the ivory/keytop before it begins to hold. When it does begin to hold, it almost feels like it sucks the keytop down onto the key. It's has a nice feel and really fun to use too, plus it's reversible.

-------------------------------------------
John Parham
Hickory NC
828-244-2487
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 01-18-2012 15:45
From: Richard West
Subject: gluing ivory

I have a salvaged ivory key top and key with a chip in the old ivory top.  I've removed the old top.  The glue wafer came off with the top, so there is bare, but smooth key top wood showing.  Short of buying a new glue wafer, what could I use to paint, or cover the top to make it white before gluing on the new unchipped salvaged top?  If I don't whiten the key, then the new top will look yellower than it already is.  Other questions:  if I paint on a white coloring, what will that do to the glue joint?  What glue is best for this purpose?  I've used gel super glue in the past which seems to work just fine.  But in those cases, the glue wafer remained and so there was already white to glue underneath the reglued top.  I've heard that white out is a good paint, but can I then use the super glue?  Are they compatible?  Should I start with white paper?  Would a spray adhesive of some sort be workable?  I just don't want to have to redo the process so I hope there's someone out there with proven methods.

-------------------------------------------
Richard West
Lincoln NE
402-477-7198
rwest1@unl.edu
-------------------------------------------