Pianotech

  • 1.  Mason & Hamlin screw stringer piano

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-12-2013 11:42
    This message has been cross posted to the following Discussions: Fine Aural Tuning and Pianotech .
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    Help! I have to tune a Mason 7 Hamlin screw stringer piano next Monday and I have never had the privilege of doing so before. The customer has the 'Thingee" which I assume is a tuning hammer specially for this. Any advice? Or if anyone knows if this subject has been covered in the Journal, I'd appreciate knowing where. I'll check too.
    Thanks all
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    Stephen Kabat
    Lyndhurst OH
    216-381-5662
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  • 2.  RE:Mason & Hamlin screw stringer piano

    Posted 02-12-2013 18:35
    As long as they've got the "thingee" you'll be okay. I've tuned one before and it's rather interesting. Mine had the instructions mounted on the side. Is this a grand? Mine was an upright but I think the same thing applies as far as tuning. You can't over-shoot the target pitch. You must come up under the pitch and it will go up. I tune with an ETD so it's easy to see when you're slightly under the pitch and where it goes. You'll catch on when you do it. Okay, that's about it other than the possibility of a string breaking and I don't know how to replace it. It may not be that complicated I just haven't done it. Maybe someone else can help you with that. 

    Have fun!

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    Scott Kerns
    "That Tuning Guy"
    Lincoln, NE
    www.thattuningguy.com
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  • 3.  RE:Mason & Hamlin screw stringer piano

    Posted 02-13-2013 03:38
    Is this the type of 'wrest pin' similar to brake adjusters on a bicycle? I tell you something - when a string breaks and you have to replace it.... you'll have fun! I used a tubular wrench and a spanner since the 'thingee' was missing. This was in a University so I'm not surprised.
     Michael (UK)

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    Michael Gamble
    semi retired
    Brighton
    01273813612
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  • 4.  RE:Mason & Hamlin screw stringer piano

    Member
    Posted 02-13-2013 11:03
    I'm in the process of re-stringing a screw stringer and did a lot of research on the type of piano itself.  I'm pasting in relevant text from the November 1995 journal below.  It obviously starts after the beginning of the article, but didn't find the rest relevant.  Have fun and try not to break any combs or strings if possible.

    This particular instrument hadn't been tuned in as long as

    anyone could remember, and the top two octaves were over 100

    cents flat relative to the rest of the instrument, which was

    roughly aroundA-435. There was some rust on these top strings

    where they wrap around the do-hickey - I have no idea what

    the proper name is for the part that connects the string to the

    machine screw- and I suspect a previous tuner chose to leave

    the top section flat, rather then risk breaking strings and

    having to figure out how to string this kind of system.

    Instructions inside the piano said that pitch should always

    be approached from below because this type piano settles

    sharp. I realized that with the machine screw, one cannot use

    any impact motion to help overcome friction. That would be

    achieved by the test blow, but this piano is 100 years old, and the

    action wouldn't withstand much in the way of pounding.

    Anyway, I thought that by having this machine screw setup,

    I'd notice infinite control over the string. But n reality, I felt

    separated from the string. Many screws moved half a turn

    before I heard any change in pitch, then all a once the pitch

    wouldjump. This also was far from uniform from note to note.

    After two and a half hours I called it quits and came back home

    to write this letter.

    Is anyone familiar enough with these critters to offer me

    some advice? Thanks in advance.

    - Gordon Large, RPT

    That was a very interesting summary you provided about

    your experience with the Mason &Hamlin screw-stringer. (Try

    saying that fast three times).

    The following comments are in no way supported in either

    the scientific, theoretical, or even empirical sense. There is

    little supporting data for these opinions. In addition, these

    statements do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Mason

    & Hamlin Company, nor the inventors of the 'screw-stringer'

    mechanism. (Who are most likely deceased.) Rather, they

    reflect exclusively my limited experience with these instruments.

    Is that enough disclaimers?

    Unlike the Chickering Brothers, whom I believe stayed up

    nights coming up with methods of not making any two pianos

    alike, I believe the 'screw-stringer' was conceptually and inherently

    a sound design. I believe its demise was caused by: (a)

    being too costly from a manufacturing standpoint, and/or (b)

    being too radically different from the mainstream to become

    widely accepted; likely the former.

    I believe you (Gordon) were the victim of time and circumstance,

    i.e., irregular service, to put it mildly, .("...hadn't been

    tuned in as long as anyone could remember...") and the last

    tuner's fear of string breakage, thus leaving the top end 100

    cents flat. Incidentally, any wire breakage due to rust can be

    repaired. The second through whatevm repairs go quite fast.

    It's the first one that's a killer.

    The fact that you found the remainder of the piano at only

    One of your suspicions should have been correct: that of

    having infinite (or certainly finite) control over the string. I

    prefer to think of it as a vernier effect. I, too, do not know the

    correct nomenclature for the "do-hickeys," so will borrow

    "machines" from guitar buzzwords.

    Therein lies another similarity. I've

    known guitar players to curse an instrument

    for the same jerky motion

    you described. I've known others who

    insist on using brand name machines

    on their guitars - to the point of

    replacing factory originals - to eliminate

    this problem.

    To borrow another term, this time

    from motorcycles, I think you were

    working against "stiction."In addition

    to possible rust on the threaded portion,

    the other, sliding "do-hickey,"

    just wasn't rendering. Had the string

    not jumped, either the screw would

    have stripped, the wire broken, or a

    similar effect as the recent agraffe discussions

    herein. Either way, something

    else negative would have happened.

    (Don't-Try-This-At-Home Department)

    At the risk of sounding unprofessional, I'd have no

    problem adding a small amount of light lubricant to the

    threads and moving (sliding) parts of the machines. Perhaps

    administering a film ofWD408with a pipe cleaner would help

    the stiction problem. After all, there's nothing to fear about it

    running down into the pinblock, is there? The remainder of

    your 2-l/2 hours were due to: (a) first attempt at an unknown

    situation, and trying to modify your natural rhythm/tool handling

    accordingly; (b) fighting the wire's reluctance to render

    across friction points after years of developing a memory, and

    (c) if you did bring the top end to pitch, that would affect the

    stability of the rest of the piano.

    A435 after an unknown length of time supports the premise

    that this is (was) a plausible method of securing piano wire

    under tension. It removes pinblock structure and the question

    of loose pins from the circuit. This leaves the structural integrity

    of the back, soundboard movement - including any

    bridge roll, and wire memory as the other variables. Well, there

    is the variable of tuning technique - more later.

    Finally, some thoughts on tuning technique. It becomes

    immediately obvious, even without instructions inside the

    piano, that one does not need to "over-tune" to compensate for

    pin flex. However, instead of the "pitch should always be

    approached from below because this type piano settles sharp,"

    I prefer to think in terrns of tuning up to pitch, and no more.

    I don't think the piano settles sharp by design. I think this is

    simply a by-product of approaching the tuning with our customary

    methods. All other conditions being equal (to other

    pianos), I suspect that a few "normal" service intervals will find

    the piano quite cooperative . . . and incredibly stable.

    Almost forgot your statement about old action parts and

    pounding. Instead of velocity, think frequency . . . less energy

    repeated more times. This should help stabilize the strings just

    as well.

    This combination of conditions should qualify for what

    Newton Hunt calls "rare or unusual circumstances," and prices

    should be adjusted accordingly.

    I hope this provides some seat-of-the-pants insight until

    someone comes up with something more . . . scientific.

    I can't claim vast experience on screwstringers, having

    worked on exactly one. Restringing with nice clean wire and

    cleaning up the bearing points did improve the rendering

    considerably, but I did break two of the do-hickeys in the

    process and had to make new ones. Actually I shouldn't say I

    broke them - they broke themselves. I guess they decided I

    was ready for a sudden and inconvenient lesson in metalworking.

    One does get the hang of it, but you'll also notice that not

    even Mason & Hamlin stayed with them very long.. . .



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    David Fisher
    Salem VA
    540-892-9685
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  • 5.  RE:Mason & Hamlin screw stringer piano

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-13-2013 13:37
    A chapter member, Les Conover, restrung one over 20 years ago, and I remember him giving a technical about it. It seemed that for replacing a string, the biggest problem was to cut the wire to a precise length, to allow for it being wrapped around the fixture and ending up within the right dimensions so that it could be tuned (has to be long enough to make it possible to re-attach to the screw, but short enough so it will pull to pitch and have plenty of room to pull sharp from there as the wire stretches). Actually wrapping around the fixture seemed not to be too troublesome, once you got the hang of it. So I guess taking a piece of scrap wire, measuring it, then producing a wrap and measuring to see how much wire was used, would be a good starting point. Then you would know how much extra length of string to cut.

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    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    "The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge, but imagination." - Einstein
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