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Concert grand moving across hardwood floor

  • 1.  Concert grand moving across hardwood floor

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-11-2013 11:21
    This message has been cross posted to the following Discussions: Pianotech and CAUT .
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    I have a church customer with a Steinway D and a beautiful hardwood floor on their stage.  They occasionally want to move it front and center (about 10 foot distance) for recitals, then put it back.  The piano has standard brass wheels that will mar the floor if rolled.  They do not want a spider dolly due to appearance issues.

    Any suggestions besides a piano mover each time?  I've looked into the "grand piano transporter", but it weighs 124 lbs and seems like expensive overkill for this short move.  The EZ furniture sliders sold on late night TV aren't burly enough for the weight.  I wondered about laying down a runner of carpet, but know that it would just bunch up as the piano rolled across it.  Perhaps strips of 3/8" plywood inserted under each wheel in the direction of travel would work, but it would have to be made from extra long panels, since 8 foot wouldn't be enough?

    Thanks for you help!

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    Thomas Armstrong
    Salinas CA
    831-229-6530
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  • 2.  RE: Concert grand moving across hardwood floor

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-11-2013 11:36
    Hi, Thomas: There are those 3-wheel mini dollies that fit into the leg socket, but I'm not sure they would fit. The wheels are not brass, but still might leave dents. I like the idea of using plywood runners. You could make two 6 foot runners for each wheel. Probably would want to fasten them together pretty securely, or permanently. I'd press hard for the stage dolly myself. Lot of strain on those legs. Carpet won't protect the floor in any case. Good luck. Paul McCloud San Diego
    Original Message


  • 3.  RE:Concert grand moving across hardwood floor

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-11-2013 12:42


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    Roger Gable
    Gable Piano
    Everett WA
    425-252-5000
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    Thomas,
    This solution will take a little research, but Darnell makes double wheel casters with the proper load rating that may or may not fit exactly in the socket of the leg. The research will involve removing one caster to determine the caster stem size -- Steinway changed the caster specification several times over the years. Check with the Darnell company to determine the the best fit and load rating for that piano. Schaff sells some Darnell casters but their load rating is marginal for a Steinway "D". Once you have found the proper caster, you may need to either drill out or shim the socket hole in the bottom of the leg. For aesthetics value, the caster framework could use a black coat of paint.
    Roger Gable
    P.S. I've done this before.





    Original Message


  • 4.  RE:Concert grand moving across hardwood floor

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-11-2013 12:46


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    Roger Gable
    Gable Piano
    Everett WA
    425-252-5000
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    Thomas,
    Sorry, I left out an important word. Darnell makes a double rubber wheel caster.
    Roger Gable




    Original Message


  • 5.  RE:Concert grand moving across hardwood floor

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-11-2013 12:15
    I would reconsider selling them the transporter.  Compare the cost of the transporter to refinishing the floor or hiring movers more than a few times.  

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    Zeno Wood
    Brooklyn, NY
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    Original Message


  • 6.  RE:Concert grand moving across hardwood floor

    Posted 05-11-2013 12:34
    I concur. They need to see reason. If they are so incredibly fussy that they won't accept a regular piano truck which so many other places tolerate without any trouble, and they value their beautiful floor equally intensely, then they should shell out for the piano transporter, which works very well.

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    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon

    Original Message


  • 7.  RE:Concert grand moving across hardwood floor

    Posted 05-11-2013 19:24
    This question was also posted in the CAUT forum.  I will copy my response from there:

    Here is a  link  to the stage casters, with pictures and specifications:

    Grand Piano Stage Casters

    I have long wanted to start (re-open) the discussion on stage trick and spider dollies vs proper casters.  Perhaps when I find a few moments to collect my thoughts...
    regards,

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    Jurgen Goering
    Piano Forte Supply
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    Original Message


  • 8.  RE:Concert grand moving across hardwood floor

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-11-2013 19:54
    Jurgen, I don't know very many stage tricks, but if you hum a few bars...

    But seriously: Those casters look great!  Do they fit into existing Steinway D legs, or are shorter legs required?  And does the stem match up?



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    Zeno Wood
    Brooklyn, NY
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    Original Message


  • 9.  RE:Concert grand moving across hardwood floor

    Posted 05-13-2013 13:31
    Zeno - I saw the typo just after I posted... The my.ptg forums seem to have about 873 options and features, but none of them include editing a post, which I find very strange and unhelpful.

    But I know I can always count on you to check my spelling and grammar!

    Regarding the casters:  The stage casters are much taller than the old style  New York wheels (which have since been changed to conform with Hamburg standards).  So, if it is a newer Steinway (I am not exactly sure when the change-over took place, it was a few years ago) the casters will fit.
    If it is an older model, the legs need to be modified or switched out.
    New York carries the shorter Hamburg Style (and now standard) legs.
    If the original legs need to be shortened, there are ways of doing that. (Talk to me)

    Essentially, the total height of caster + leg has to add up to 24", i.e. the bottom of the keybed is 24" off the floor.

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    Jurgen Goering
    Piano Forte Supply
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    Original Message


  • 10.  RE:Concert grand moving across hardwood floor

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-13-2013 21:10
    This talk of putting wheels onto other wheels to avoid marring the floor reminds me of the story of the village of Chelm and the snow.

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    Zeno Wood
    Brooklyn, NY
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  • 11.  RE:Concert grand moving across hardwood floor

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-13-2013 16:24
    If they really want to go on the cheap, you could place something between the castors and the floor, and then slide the piano across the floor. When delivering a piano, it is often not feasible to set it down exactly in its final resting place. On a wood or tile floor, I have placed a folded up moving pad or even towels under the castors and nudged the piano into position. Ideally, a truck protects the floor from scratches AND the legs from stress. A transporter does the same, with more fuss each time. If we aren't worried about the legs, how about a box big enough to keep the castor inside, and carpet / flannel / felt / something soft and slick on the bottom of the box to allow the piano to slide and protect the floor. You would need to lift each leg and place the apparati. Figure out a lever or jack to lift it. Maybe even standard style castor cups, which have a flannel glued to the bottom. Replace the flannel with something that will survive the repeated use. If they want to be cheap. Standard discaimers apply. ------------------------------------------- David Stocker Olympia WA -------------------------------------------
    Original Message


  • 12.  RE:Concert grand moving across hardwood floor

    Posted 05-13-2013 20:11
    You'd think if they can afford a Steinway D and a beautiful perfect hardwood floor, they could manage to buy a piano transporter instead of fussing with stop-gap measures.

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    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon

    Original Message


  • 13.  RE: Concert grand moving across hardwood floor

    Posted 05-14-2013 02:41
    Nah, I've seen it time and again. The most recent being putting up a 20 million dollar building that was to include musical entertainment. The piano? . . .a used Shafer 5 /1/2 foot with about half the bass strings replaced. A chronic string breaker. ---Tom Gorley On May 13, 2013, at 5:09 PM, Susan Kline wrote: > > You'd think if they can afford a Steinway D and a beautiful perfect hardwood floor, they could manage to buy a piano transporter instead of fussing with stop-gap measures. > > ------------------------------------------- > Susan Kline > Philomath, Oregon > ------------------------------------------- > Original Message: > Sent: 05-13-2013 16:24 > From: David Stocker > Subject: Concert grand moving across hardwood floor > > > If they really want to go on the cheap, you could place something between the castors and the floor, and then slide the piano across the floor. > > When delivering a piano, it is often not feasible to set it down exactly in its final resting place. On a wood or tile floor, I have placed a folded up moving pad or even towels under the castors and nudged the piano into position. > > Ideally, a truck protects the floor from scratches AND the legs from stress. A transporter does the same, with more fuss each time. > > If we aren't worried about the legs, how about a box big enough to keep the castor inside, and carpet / flannel / felt / something soft and slick on the bottom of the box to allow the piano to slide and protect the floor. You would need to lift each leg and place the apparati. Figure out a lever or jack to lift it. > > Maybe even standard style castor cups, which have a flannel glued to the bottom. Replace the flannel with something that will survive the repeated use. > > If they want to be cheap. Standard discaimers apply. > > ------------------------------------------- > David Stocker > Olympia WA > > ------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > >