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Piano dollies for console/spinet with skinny front legs

  • 1.  Piano dollies for console/spinet with skinny front legs

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-12-2014 14:59
    Is there any reason not to install the 4009 style dollies on a console with skinny spinet-like front legs?  Seems like it would be ok, but I wanted to verify.  Also, I think I'll remove the front legs for aesthetic reasons if I do this.  Any reason not to do this?  Thanks for your help.

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    Brandon Robertson
    Gardendale AL
    205-612-5544
    -------------------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Piano dollies for console/spinet with skinny front legs

    Posted 09-12-2014 15:05
    I have installed more than 40 of these- many on pianos with unsupported front legs - they work great.  Be sure to lag screw them to both the bacl and the bottom of the piano to keep them secure and balanced.  Remove the legs if you wish.

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    Stephen Grattan
    Port Huron MI
    810-984-2757
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  • 3.  RE: Piano dollies for console/spinet with skinny front legs

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-12-2014 21:40
    A lot of pianos that I service that have these dollies have annoying buzzing noises coming from the dollies. I'm not sure what creates the buzzes, but it's something to be aware of when you are installing them. ------------------------------------------- Peter Stevenson RPT P.S. Piano Service Prince George BC 250-562-5358 ps@pspianoservice.com -------------------------------------------
    Original Message


  • 4.  RE: Piano dollies for console/spinet with skinny front legs

    Posted 09-12-2014 22:37
    No reason not to install.

    Be certain to do as Stephen says, lag screw them both to the back and the bottom of the piano.

    One other important item in installation. Make certain they are mounted far enough apart so the bench can be inserted between them.

    Also, important to note. Those Twin-Dollies will extend about 4" beyond the back of the piano, so putting the piano against any wall is limited by that 4".

    As to Peter's mention of buzzing noises coming from Twin-Dollies, I don't see how that is possible if they are mounted securely and correctly.

    Keith McGavern, RPT
    Shawnee, Oklahoma, USA
    kam544@allegiance.tv
    [Visual Tuning Platform User]
    [iRCT & OnlyPure ]
    -------------------------------------------

    Original Message:
    Sent: 09-12-2014 14:59
    From: Brandon Robertson
    ...  Is there any reason not to install the 4009 style dollies on a console with skinny spinet-like front legs?  ...


  • 5.  RE: Piano dollies for console/spinet with skinny front legs

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-12-2014 23:32
    Indeed. My problem is probably that these were mounted by school custodial staff.

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    Peter Stevenson RPT
    P.S. Piano Service
    Prince George BC
    250-562-5358
    ps@pspianoservice.com
    -------------------------------------------


    Original Message


  • 6.  RE: Piano dollies for console/spinet with skinny front legs

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-13-2014 17:07
    As the bottom board is nonstructural and relatively thin, I always use bolts with lock washers there. I use top quality lag screws and bolts as well. A place where overkill is just enough to do the job right.

    Had to redo a previous tech's installation once due to buzz and squeak noises, along with a strange timbre to the piano in general that made tuning very difficult. He had mounted the dollies right up against the lower horizontal front leg braces (non-spindle front legs), plus used lesser quality screws that allowed the case to move and skew while playing (and worse when turning the tuning wrench). Repositioning and securely attaching made a very noticeable tonal difference.

    Don't neglect to remove the original casters as well. Easy for them to vibrate, buzz, or thump sympathetically otherwise. The aforementioned had left the casters attached, too, of course.
    After struggling with the removal process on other pianos a couple times, I purchased the longest persuader (48") available. Much easier, generally.

    Anybody compared the various trucks available? I've used the cheaper Schaff version (same as the Jensen link) exclusively.

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    Dwight Denzer RPT
    Springfield IL
    217-498-9343
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    Original Message


  • 7.  RE: Piano dollies for console/spinet with skinny front legs

    Posted 09-13-2014 17:24
    Excellent addition to the "dos' and donts'" list.

    Keith McGavern, RPT
    Shawnee, Oklahoma, USA
    kam544@allegiance.tv
    [Visual Tuning Platform User]
    [iRCT & OnlyPure ]
    -------------------------------------------

    Original Message:
    Sent: 09-13-2014 17:06
    From: Dwight Denzer
    ...  Don't neglect to remove the original casters as well. Easy for them to vibrate, buzz, or thump sympathetically otherwise.   ...


  • 8.  RE: Piano dollies for console/spinet with skinny front legs

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-14-2014 14:46
    Folks,
        
        I've seen a few comments about lag-bolts for the bottom of the dollies. I would suggest that you drill and use nut-bolt-washers for the bottom. Much more secure. There's just not enough material in the bottom of the piano to use a screw or lag-bolt; you may split or crack it. The use of a wide washer on the interior of the bottom also spreads the load a little, reducing the chance that use, age, and rocking will split the bottom.

        If those dollies were installed by non-technicians.....I'd bet that NO attention was paid to those openings in the strap-steel running under the piano. It will be much more secure, and a bit less wobbly, if you take the time to drill and bolt the dollies properly in place. Another creeeeeeking sound gone, too. At least two nut-bolt-washer combos on each dolly through the bottom. OK?

        When setting the position of the dollies, I pay attention to where those bottom bolts will end up; usually spacing the dollies as wide as possible avoids the pedal trapwork when drilling in for the bolts/nuts/washers. No worries.

        Yes! You can remove the front legs (...and rear casters) for aesthetics and eliminating potential buzzes. Good call.

    Mimosas,
    Scrambled eggs,
    Apple Cinammon Rolls,
    Sunday Morning!
    -------------------------------------------
    Jeffrey T. Hickey, RPT
    North Bend OR
    TunerJeff440@aol.com
    Portland Chapter #972
    -------------------------------------------


    Original Message


  • 9.  RE: Piano dollies for console/spinet with skinny front legs

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-15-2014 23:38
    Agreed for bolts, washers, and nuts. I also use lock washers and hardened Type 8 bolts for the bottom board, and stainless steel lag screws into backposts where possible. No messing around when it comes to enabling safe movement.

    See attached photos of tricky dolly install on 1984 Baldwin Acrosonic console. Bottom board does not extend full depth, severe cutouts for rear casters, back plate infill boards are inconsequential.  

    -------------------------------------------
    [Dwight][Denzer][RPT]
    [Dwight's Piano Works]
    [Springfield][IL]
    -------------------------------------------


    Original Message


  • 10.  RE: Piano dollies for console/spinet with skinny front legs

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-12-2014 23:57
    Thanks everyone for the info.  I have one more related question.  If I tilt it back on a collapsible repair truck/tilter to do the installation, is there anything I need to do differently to account for the extra height and width to be safe when lowering it?

    -------------------------------------------
    Brandon Robertson
    Gardendale AL
    205-612-5544
    -------------------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Piano dollies for console/spinet with skinny front legs

    Posted 09-13-2014 01:15
    Watch this video:
    Twin Dollies Installation

    Keith McGavern, RPT
    Shawnee, Oklahoma, USA
    kam544@allegiance.tv
    [Visual Tuning Platform User]
    [iRCT & OnlyPure ]
    -------------------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: Piano dollies for console/spinet with skinny front legs

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-14-2014 13:52
    Speaking of structure, I always place the dollies as close to the sides of the piano as possible. The sides are designed to bear the weight of the piano. Hence, removing the casters is necessary just to get the dollies closer to the ends, as well as preventing rattles.

    I once serviced an assisted living facility with a Korean piano. The entire regulation was out to lunch making the piano unplayable. Someone had installed the dollies a couple inches off the ends, which made the weight of the piano push up on the bottom board, which pushed up on the toe rail, which pushed up on the bottom panel, which pushed up on the spring, which pushed up on the keyed enough to bend it upwards, which moved the back rail and action up to a state of ridiculousness. 

    Re-install dollies to the edges, touch-up the regulation, all is right with the world. 

    If there are toes on a piano supporting the legs, I use the larger dollies and drill a hole through the side of the dolly into the toe and install a lag screw. This makes the piano way more stable front to back, and prevents rattles and squeaks. 

    -------------------------------------------
    David Stocker
    Olympia WA

    Lingua Latina mortua est.
    -------------------------------------------


    Original Message


  • 13.  RE: Piano dollies for console/spinet with skinny front legs

    Posted 09-16-2014 15:21
    On 9/13/2014 4:06 PM, Dwight Denzer via Piano Technicians Guild wrote:

    > Anybody compared the various trucks available? I've used the cheaper
    > Schaff version (same as the Jensen link) exclusively.

    Sorry, I've always used the Schaff offering myself, installed with
    excessive overbuilding much like you described. I've found them to be
    quite serviceable and adequate. Though I've run into a couple of scary
    "installations" where someone has just set the piano on the dollies
    without attempting to fasten them in any manner, I've not had one make
    weird noises or cause tonal problems. I always find it vaguely
    disturbing when I do something right without knowing just why it is.
    Ron N

    ------Original Message------

    Is there any reason not to install the 4009 style dollies on a console with skinny spinet-like front legs?  Seems like it would be ok, but I wanted to verify.  Also, I think I'll remove the front legs for aesthetic reasons if I do this.  Any reason not to do this?  Thanks for your help.

    -------------------------------------------
    Brandon Robertson
    Gardendale AL
    205-612-5544
    -------------------------------------------


  • 14.  RE: Piano dollies for console/spinet with skinny front legs

    Posted 09-16-2014 18:31


    -------------------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page
    -------------------------------------------


    Original Message


  • 15.  RE: Piano dollies for console/spinet with skinny front legs

    Posted 09-16-2014 18:39
    I have come across one set of Schaff dollies which needed new casters. Basically they are the same Jansen frame but with the plate casters spot welded onto the frame. Jansen bolts them on. On which would you rather change casters, I found out the hard way.  I install Jansen dollies solely. Unless Schaff has seen the error of their ways...

    -------------------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page


  • 16.  RE: Piano dollies for console/spinet with skinny front legs

    Posted 09-16-2014 19:52
    On 9/16/2014 5:39 PM, Jon Page via Piano Technicians Guild wrote:

    > I have come across one set of Schaff dollies which needed new casters.
    > Basically they are the same Jansen frame but with the plate casters spot
    > welded onto the frame. Jansen bolts them on. On which would you rather
    > change casters, I found out the hard way. I install Jansen dollies
    > solely. Unless Schaff has seen the error of their ways...

    That, I haven't run into. Aren't the wheels interchangeable by just
    taking out the axle bolt? It's been a while since I did one.

    Ron N

    ------Original Message------

    Is there any reason not to install the 4009 style dollies on a console with skinny spinet-like front legs?  Seems like it would be ok, but I wanted to verify.  Also, I think I'll remove the front legs for aesthetic reasons if I do this.  Any reason not to do this?  Thanks for your help.

    -------------------------------------------
    Brandon Robertson
    Gardendale AL
    205-612-5544
    -------------------------------------------


  • 17.  RE: Piano dollies for console/spinet with skinny front legs

    Posted 09-17-2014 07:48
    That's a possibility but when the bearings are toast...

    -------------------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page
    -------------------------------------------

    -------------------------------------------

    That, I haven't run into. Aren't the wheels interchangeable by just
    taking out the axle bolt? It's been a while since I did one.

    Ron N








  • 18.  RE: Piano dollies for console/spinet with skinny front legs

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-24-2014 21:53
    Just wanted to follow up on my questions regarding the dollies.  I installed the set I was asking about today.  While the piano was on its back I saw some damage I hadn't expected that must have been caused by repeatedly rolling the piano on its original casters.  Thought I'd share the pictures with you all.  I am now much more inclined to recommend dollies to clients who need to regularly move their pianos.
     





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    Brandon Robertson
    Gardendale AL
    205-612-5544
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  • 19.  RE: Piano dollies for console/spinet with skinny front legs

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-24-2014 22:00
    I'm not sure why the second image is rescaling to be the same width as the first one...

    -------------------------------------------
    Brandon Robertson
    Gardendale AL
    205-612-5544
    -------------------------------------------


    Original Message


  • 20.  RE: Piano dollies for console/spinet with skinny front legs

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-25-2014 14:31
    Maybe this is the fix?

    http://hug.higherlogic.com/browse/glossary/entry/?GlossaryKey=701e7144-9669-4a96-8729-2b43a51e20c8&tab=groupdetails


    -------------------------------------------
    Brandon Robertson
    Gardendale AL
    205-612-5544
    -------------------------------------------


    Original Message