Pianotech

  • 1.  Yamaha GP1

    Posted 09-22-2014 12:20
    Hey...what's with the Yamah GP-1. Usually I look forward to tuning Yamaha pinblocks as they are usually so freindly to work with. But this 2005-ish GP-1- 5' something had one of the popping-est, creaking-est blocks I've seen..every note. Not overly tight, but the pins just jumped to beat the band.

    And the tenor break...holy mackerel...the rest of the piano was reasonably close to pitch, while and the tenor break and a full half octave above was wild with full 35c differential. I deal with a bunch of G1's and GH1's but this put them to shame...what gives? Where are these made?

    And then there's the bass scale...geesh. I can tune a real nice small piano bass, and I got this one there, but it took some serious doing, more so than any awful spinet I tune...really...

     
    Jim Ialeggio

    -------------------------------------------
    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
    -------------------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Yamaha GP1

    Posted 09-22-2014 15:03
    On 9/22/2014 11:20 AM, Jim Ialeggio via Piano Technicians Guild wrote:

    > Hey...what's with the Yamah GP-1. Usually I look forward to tuning
    > Yamaha pinblocks as they are usually so freindly to work with. But this
    > 2005-ish GP-1- 5' something had one of the popping-est, creaking-est
    > blocks I've seen..every note. Not overly tight, but the pins just jumped
    > to beat the band.

    I haven't had the pleasure with the GP-1 (I don't think), but pianos
    coming out of Thomaston during it's last two or three years were
    miserable things to turn pins in. We had a chip tuner from the plant on
    the old list at that time who had a right arm that looked like a thigh.
    He didn't have much nice to say about the tunability of those pianos The
    Chinese products that followed apparently learned that lesson really
    well too, and fitted pins in a similar manner or tighter. Torques near
    the shear point, and Rice Krispies action when they finally did move.
    Studios too tall to tune comfortably seated at those pin torque levels,
    and too short to tune standing without uncomfortable back depreciation.
    Painfully bright even with earplugs, and a pronounced low tenor quack.
    Miserable things.


    > And the tenor break...holy mackerel...the rest of the piano was
    > reasonably close to pitch, while and the tenor break and a full half
    > octave above was wild with full 35c differential. I deal with a bunch of
    > G1's and GH1's but this put them to shame...what gives? Where are these
    > made?
    >
    > And then there's the bass scale...geesh. I can tune a real nice small
    > piano bass, and I got this one there, but it took some serious doing,
    > more so than any awful spinet I tune...really...


    I'd have thought they had perfected hideous scaling with the GH and GA
    pianos, and the strut breaks of the P-22s. It seems to me that they are
    providing their own bad examples. Keeping it in the family, so to speak.
    Big expensive pianos will sell to those looking for a big expensive
    piano to occupy that decorative patch of sunlight in the living room,
    which pianos can be compared to acceptable pianos to highlight their
    superiority. To make an acceptable piano sound good enough to sell, you
    need a poor piano to compare it to. But then to sell the poor piano, you
    need a double bad piano to compare it to so the customer can make a
    discerning choice in buying the poor piano. Someone will always by
    double bad pianos in any case because they're cheapest, so they can sell
    the entire line with a sales valid rationalization for each. No need for
    the customer to look at any other brand to find what they want unless
    they're after pure mythology and mystic cachet. In that case, they buy
    the desirable name board, and it comes with a piano behind it.

    If you want a real thrill of the engineering kind, take the scale of
    that GP-1 and see what the break% and Ih is on that lowest tenor unison.
    In the break% pool, I'll take 19% break for a nickel. That bass ought to
    be interesting too. I know there are a half dozen folks who would also
    love to have the data on that scale for their own education too, if
    you're willing to share. Maybe a trade.
    Ron N




  • 3.  RE: Yamaha GP1

    Posted 09-22-2014 17:22
    I go back late Dec/Jan to try and tame this beast a tad. I'll take it then and be happy to share...geez...

    So a trade eh...what trade value could this possibly have? If I give you the scale, what do I get in return...root canal surgery? Maybe the safe way to make this deal is to say no trade. Instead, I just get to inflict it, with impunity, on the masses...how's that sound? 

    JI
    -------------------------------------------
    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
    -------------------------------------------









  • 4.  RE: Yamaha GP1

    Posted 09-27-2014 02:50
    The GP-1 was made in Japan not Thomaston. There was 4 Grand models assembled in Georgia GH1G, GH1FP, GC1G, GC1FP. The G after 1 stood for Georgian style, and the FP was French Provincial. The GP1 used the same scale as the GH1B, it was cheaper the produce with a stationary music desk and they changed the outer rim material. They used a similar scale for the now discontinued GA1 which we couldn't keep in tune here in Phoenix. I know of several customers that yamaha replaced the GA1 with a GB1. The GC1 used the same scale as their C1. The GB1 scale is based on the principles of the C1 scale. The new scales are much easier to tune at the bass tenor break.

    Sent from my iPad




  • 5.  RE: Yamaha GP1

    Posted 09-27-2014 14:12
    On 9/27/2014 1:50 AM, Gregory Holman via Piano Technicians Guild wrote:

    > The GP-1 was made in Japan not Thomaston.

    I didn't assume they were. I was pointing out that the Thomaston
    products had similar tuning pin fit problems to those described by Jim
    for the GP1. I'd noticed the Japanese products getting worse to tune
    too, at about the same time. The point, without leading everyone through
    it, was that perhaps this is Yamaha policy, and they had somehow
    forgotten how to make a tunable piano.

    Yamahas used to be a delight to tune, if you could overlook the hard
    hammers. Tuning pin control was really nice. They used to use I think a
    6.8mm pin, at least in the Japanese built grands, and weren't fitted
    overly tight. But they had some problems with loose tuning pins in
    extreme climate environments and seem to have decided to just make the
    pins too tight to ever get loose under warranty in any climate, which
    makes them miserable to tune everywhere but in Minot in February.

    I haven't checked for a while, what tuning pin size is in the Japanese
    built pianos these days?




    > They used a similar scale
    > for the now discontinued GA1 which we couldn't keep in tune here in

    No one could, anywhere. With a low tenor break of around 20% or lower,
    they couldn't be gotten in tune across the break at all.


    > I know of several customers that yamaha replaced the GA1 with a
    > GB1.The GC1 used the same scale as their C1.

    The GB1 was, surprisingly, certainly far more tunable than the GA1.


    > The GB1 scale is based on
    > the principles of the C1 scale.

    Whatever those are. I mean in the scale, not the result.

    Ron N