Pianotech

Hello, this is my first time posting.  I am a new student, currently taking correspondence courses in piano tuning from Rick Butler. My great uncle Harry Place lives in New Jersey an has been tuning organs and pianos for over 6 decades. We talk often about the new advancements in the trade and how things have changed over the years, and he still mentions these Conn Strobotuners. He's also an engineer, so his knowledge goes well over my head at times, He is old school and will probably always be a hardcore analog advocate (he has a Chamberlin in his living room and another in his spare room for parts).  My question is two-fold... 1) WHY were these tuners considered to be so GREAT back in the day, and 2) How do they measure up now?  Because they are made with tubes I'm going to guess they're probably pretty heavy.






-------------------------------------------
Kristin Brooks
Cedar Rapids IA
319-504-9776
-------------------------------------------

I am tempted to suggest that you study up during the next 6 months or so on tuning, temperament, and inharmonicity, then come back and ask your question again if you still need to.

I attached a photo of a range of modern electronic tuning devices. Most run on iOS and Android devices and are very powerful tools.

There is a big difference between organ and piano tuning. While the Strobotuner may be adequate for organs, it is generally not considered adequate for piano tuning, in 2014. The Strobotuner is likely an electromechanical device whose accuracy is dependent upon the 60 Hz derived from house AC. Modern electronic devices are more accurate, more reliable, and much smarter.

-------------------------------------------
Kent Swafford
Lenexa KS
913-631-8227
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 10-15-2014 19:35
From: Kristin Brooks
Subject: Conn Strobotuners

Hello, this is my first time posting.  I am a new student, currently taking correspondence courses in piano tuning from Rick Butler. My great uncle Harry Place lives in New Jersey an has been tuning organs and pianos for over 6 decades. We talk often about the new advancements in the trade and how things have changed over the years, and he still mentions these Conn Strobotuners. He's also an engineer, so his knowledge goes well over my head at times, He is old school and will probably always be a hardcore analog advocate (he has a Chamberlin in his living room and another in his spare room for parts).  My question is two-fold... 1) WHY were these tuners considered to be so GREAT back in the day, and 2) How do they measure up now?  Because they are made with tubes I'm going to guess they're probably pretty heavy.






-------------------------------------------
Kristin Brooks
Cedar Rapids IA
319-504-9776
-------------------------------------------

Kristin,

To answer your two questions in a nutshell with my opinion.
1) WHY were these tuners considered to be so GREAT back in the day
Because that is what there was.
2) How do they measure up now?
They don't.

Keith McGavern, RPT
Shawnee, Oklahoma, USA
kam544@allegiance.tv
[Visual Tuning Platform User]
[iRCT & OnlyPure ]
-------------------------------------------

Hi, Kristin:
Welcome to Pianotech.
We've all been in your shoes, back when.. Don't be shy.
The strobotuner, and other devices from back then, were not designed to account for the inharmonicity of pianos. They still require one to properly temper the octaves by ear, if you want to produce a good tuning. The modern computer-driven devices available now have a much greater accuracy, enough to be able to tune a piano reasonably well without knowledge of aural tuning. The strobotuner doesn't have the accuracy necessary to tune a piano properly without some aural help. Pianos are tuned individually, by any method, so that an exact duplicate of one piano tuning is not going to sound perfect on another piano. There will be differences in the frequencies of the individual partials of every string, so that requires all other notes be tuned to account for those differences. It is not possible without additional electronic calculations for a strobe tuner to tailor a tuning to a particular piano. I think that there are a few modern models of strobe tuners that do have some of that capability, but they are not generally favored by most professional tuners because of their limited features compared to the software-driven devices. Of course, the strobe tuners are quite heavy.
If your mentor likes and uses them, it is no slight against him. He may have a lot of experience using it to "get close" and then using his aural skills to complete the job. If you would like to use one, there's no harm, but you'll need to hone your skills to become a professional using it.
Best of luck in your new profession.
Paul McCloud
San Diego


Original Message------

Hello, this is my first time posting.  I am a new student, currently taking correspondence courses in piano tuning from Rick Butler. My great uncle Harry Place lives in New Jersey an has been tuning organs and pianos for over 6 decades. We talk often about the new advancements in the trade and how things have changed over the years, and he still mentions these Conn Strobotuners. He's also an engineer, so his knowledge goes well over my head at times, He is old school and will probably always be a hardcore analog advocate (he has a Chamberlin in his living room and another in his spare room for parts).  My question is two-fold... 1) WHY were these tuners considered to be so GREAT back in the day, and 2) How do they measure up now?  Because they are made with tubes I'm going to guess they're probably pretty heavy.






-------------------------------------------
Kristin Brooks
Cedar Rapids IA
319-504-9776
-------------------------------------------

Not to mention that for a few bucks you can download an app to your smartphone from Peterson that will pretty much do the same thing. I have one -- it's fun to play with but I've not tried actually tuning a piano with it.

I have a few other similar apps as well. Like the Peterson, they are fun to play with but....

ddf

-------------------------------------------
Delwin Fandrich
Olympia WA
360-515-0119
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 10-15-2014 21:33
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: Conn Strobotuners

Hi, Kristin:
Welcome to Pianotech.
We've all been in your shoes, back when.. Don't be shy.
The strobotuner, and other devices from back then, were not designed to account for the inharmonicity of pianos. They still require one to properly temper the octaves by ear, if you want to produce a good tuning. The modern computer-driven devices available now have a much greater accuracy, enough to be able to tune a piano reasonably well without knowledge of aural tuning. The strobotuner doesn't have the accuracy necessary to tune a piano properly without some aural help. Pianos are tuned individually, by any method, so that an exact duplicate of one piano tuning is not going to sound perfect on another piano. There will be differences in the frequencies of the individual partials of every string, so that requires all other notes be tuned to account for those differences. It is not possible without additional electronic calculations for a strobe tuner to tailor a tuning to a particular piano. I think that there are a few modern models of strobe tuners that do have some of that capability, but they are not generally favored by most professional tuners because of their limited features compared to the software-driven devices. Of course, the strobe tuners are quite heavy.
If your mentor likes and uses them, it is no slight against him. He may have a lot of experience using it to "get close" and then using his aural skills to complete the job. If you would like to use one, there's no harm, but you'll need to hone your skills to become a professional using it.
Best of luck in your new profession.
Paul McCloud
San Diego

Kristen --

Don't handicap yourself by beginning your tuning training with a tuning device of any kind. Learn to tune by ear and once you understand how everything fits into place and can pull it off, then you can bring an ETD into your skill set. Learning to listen, and what to listen for is absolutely key. Even the best ETD won't do the job for you if you don't know what you're listening for. 

But --

That Conn Stobotuner pictured is probably a collectors item and worth some money. Provided you can find the tubes for it and the motor still works. Keep it, but consider it unacceptable technology for contemporary piano tuning. Probably great for organs though. 

Also, he's got two Chamberlins? Those are most definitely collectors items. Way cooler than the Mellotrons like The Moody Blues used. I bet getting replacement tapes is a bit difficult though since Harry Chamberlin died in 1986. A guy named Michael Iseberg used to have two of them connected to two stops on his B3 and, along with several additional synthesizers and him singing, was an "E" ticket attraction at DisneyWorld in Florida for a number of years. He called himself The Iceberg Machine.

-- GS

-------------------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 10-15-2014 19:35
From: Kristin Brooks
Subject: Conn Strobotuners

Hello, this is my first time posting.  I am a new student, currently taking correspondence courses in piano tuning from Rick Butler. My great uncle Harry Place lives in New Jersey an has been tuning organs and pianos for over 6 decades. We talk often about the new advancements in the trade and how things have changed over the years, and he still mentions these Conn Strobotuners. He's also an engineer, so his knowledge goes well over my head at times, He is old school and will probably always be a hardcore analog advocate (he has a Chamberlin in his living room and another in his spare room for parts).  My question is two-fold... 1) WHY were these tuners considered to be so GREAT back in the day, and 2) How do they measure up now?  Because they are made with tubes I'm going to guess they're probably pretty heavy.






-------------------------------------------
Kristin Brooks
Cedar Rapids IA
319-504-9776
-------------------------------------------

It's my understanding that they were never great, they were what they had. They worked adequately when the technician really knew how to use them, there's the rub though, most techs didn't know how to use them. That's where the bad feelings for EDT's started, you'll still find a few customers whose grandmothers told them they need somebody that tunes by ear.

Thank you,
Ron Moore
Moore's Piano Service
260-241-1772
Moorepiano.com
Facebook.com/MooresPianoService


Original Message------

Hello, this is my first time posting.  I am a new student, currently taking correspondence courses in piano tuning from Rick Butler. My great uncle Harry Place lives in New Jersey an has been tuning organs and pianos for over 6 decades. We talk often about the new advancements in the trade and how things have changed over the years, and he still mentions these Conn Strobotuners. He's also an engineer, so his knowledge goes well over my head at times, He is old school and will probably always be a hardcore analog advocate (he has a Chamberlin in his living room and another in his spare room for parts).  My question is two-fold... 1) WHY were these tuners considered to be so GREAT back in the day, and 2) How do they measure up now?  Because they are made with tubes I'm going to guess they're probably pretty heavy.






-------------------------------------------
Kristin Brooks
Cedar Rapids IA
319-504-9776
-------------------------------------------

I seem to remember a Conn Electronic Organ, and each note had to be tuned, so that is probably how the Conn Strobotuner got started, as a factory tool.
Then someone tried it on a piano, so they started selling them for that purpose.
This is just a thought I had when I ran into the organ. Purely a personal thought.

-------------------------------------------
John M. Ross
Ross Piano Service
Windsor, Nova Scotia, Canada
jrpiano@bellaliant.net
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 10-16-2014 06:56
From: Ronald Moore
Subject: Conn Strobotuners

It's my understanding that they were never great, they were what they had. They worked adequately when the technician really knew how to use them, there's the rub though, most techs didn't know how to use them. That's where the bad feelings for EDT's started, you'll still find a few customers whose grandmothers told them they need somebody that tunes by ear.

Thank you,
Ron Moore
Moore's Piano Service
260-241-1772
Moorepiano.com
Facebook.com/MooresPianoService

Hi Kristen,

Ah yes, the image brings back memories.

As you know, being in Ioway and all, it gets cold in the winter.  The "bozotuners" were not the least bit stable out there in the car and had to be turned on and warmed up before they were even close to being accurate.  Then as they'd continue to warm up, your starting point in the tuning would be re-established as you went along.

The ear is the last and final test.  I've been tuning exclusively by ear for over 40 years and have never used one.  At best, a Conn will let you know if you're sharp or flat.  Rely on your ear to lay that string in there where your ear says it should be.

In it's day it was a window of opportunity for some to make an extra dollar or two  ........  and for some, ripping off the unsuspecting.

Put it on display and think of your uncle.  Dust it off now and again.  The days of it being a viable tuning aid is past.

-------------------------------------------
Larry Fisher
Owner, Chief Grunt, Head Hosehead
Vancouver WA
360-256-2999
-------------------------------------------

Hello again,

Thank you all for your responses.  I do appreciate all of your knowledge and expertise.  I am not considering buying a strobe tuner, especially not one of this vintage.  I was inquiring about them to better understand my uncle's fascination with them. The one I posted seems like a heavy piece of antiquated equipment, which I believe to be "the best they had at the time", and, as someone else mentioned, the "only" thing they had at the time. However, there is a small chance that I may inherit this lovely conversation piece.  If I do, it may find it's way to a museum, and your opinions on this topic have reinforced this notion.

I had thought about the inaccuracies that load changes/shifts in commercial power would cause, but I hadn't even considered the cold factor...(duh! Of course!)... nearly a death sentence for any piece of equipment that uses tubes, in my experience. I'm sure there are other factors that would also categorize this type of tuner as sub-standard, as it is based on technology developed in the 1930's.

My experience with strobe tuners is non-existent, though I have heard (and read) many strong opinions against them (as well as some for them) by tuners I am meeting along the way.  I am continously intrigued and fascinated by the differing opinions on tuning devices and methods.  Currently, I am tuning aurally.  I may purchase some tuning software to help me become more efficient at a later date, and I am sure I will rely on the discussion boards to weigh in if I decide go that route. In the meantime, I am enjoying the aural tuning process, though I'm extremely slow at it. It's taking me about 4 hours (including gaining access to the inside of the piano, light cleaning, and reassembly), which I hope will improve with continued practice. Thank you again for your comments!

Krisitn

If you would like to play with a strobe tuner there is a pretty neat one for free available as an Android app

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.adamfoster.android.strobe

-- G

-------------------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 10-17-2014 12:38
From: Kristin Brooks
Subject: Conn Strobotuners

Hello again,

Thank you all for your responses.  I do appreciate all of your knowledge and expertise.  I am not considering buying a strobe tuner, especially not one of this vintage.  I was inquiring about them to better understand my uncle's fascination with them. The one I posted seems like a heavy piece of antiquated equipment, which I believe to be "the best they had at the time", and, as someone else mentioned, the "only" thing they had at the time. However, there is a small chance that I may inherit this lovely conversation piece.  If I do, it may find it's way to a museum, and your opinions on this topic have reinforced this notion.

I had thought about the inaccuracies that load changes/shifts in commercial power would cause, but I hadn't even considered the cold factor...(duh! Of course!)... nearly a death sentence for any piece of equipment that uses tubes, in my experience. I'm sure there are other factors that would also categorize this type of tuner as sub-standard, as it is based on technology developed in the 1930's.

My experience with strobe tuners is non-existent, though I have heard (and read) many strong opinions against them (as well as some for them) by tuners I am meeting along the way.  I am continously intrigued and fascinated by the differing opinions on tuning devices and methods.  Currently, I am tuning aurally.  I may purchase some tuning software to help me become more efficient at a later date, and I am sure I will rely on the discussion boards to weigh in if I decide go that route. In the meantime, I am enjoying the aural tuning process, though I'm extremely slow at it. It's taking me about 4 hours (including gaining access to the inside of the piano, light cleaning, and reassembly), which I hope will improve with continued practice. Thank you again for your comments!

Krisitn

The Conn Strobotuner you show is the third generation or design.  The first had a window with a strobe for each of the twelve pitches in equal temperament.  Most of the replies you have on the value and accuracy are true enough.  One question I did not really see answered is "WHY were these tuners considered to be so GREAT back in the day?"  Elements of the historic perspective are missing from the discussion. 

The original 12 window Conn Strobotuner was the first commercially available device to measure pitch.  It was quite accurate when used under stable conditions.  Of course, previously other devices could give accurate pitches as sound, but the Conn could measure them, how flat or sharp.  When they were first used to tune pianos there were a number of things that were discovered.  Of interest to us is that inharmonicity was not discovered in pianos until tuners tried to figure out why the Conn did not give us a perfect tuning.  It was first thought to be just the way we were used to hearing the piano.  After many fine tunings were measured with the Conn, the pattern was very clear; we tune the top end sharp and the low end flat, compared to what we believed we were doing.  It took years to find inharmonicity as the answer.  The first electronic tuner that could measure a piano's inharmonicity and show how to use a tuner to accurately tune a piano from end to end was Dr. Al Sanderson's invention: the Sight-O-Tuner, which was sold by Hale.  Pianos tuners have always tuned the top end sharp from where it would theoretically be, but did not know it.  Some early tuning instructions might refer to stretching an octave or a tuning, but this was not understood in the same way as it is now.

As a complete aside, some years back, I was delivering some of William Braid White's old correspondence to the PTG Home Office for the Foundation's archives.  I showed them to Al Sanderson.  They included scale designs he made for Jesse French.   Doc Sanderson looked them over and determined that even at that time, in the 1940s, one of the best educated and advanced scientific minds in the piano industry did not use any formula for inharmonicity.  As early as 1917, William Braid White may have introduced the country to a reliable way to tune equal temperament, but inharmonicity would have to wait a number of decades.  If you are interested in seeing other old electronic tuners, there is a page with many of them, including one just like your great uncle's, on the Foundation's website: ptgf.org 

-------------------------------------------
Bruce Dornfeld
Northbrook IL
847-498-0379
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 10-15-2014 19:35
From: Kristin Brooks
Subject: Conn Strobotuners

Hello, this is my first time posting.  I am a new student, currently taking correspondence courses in piano tuning from Rick Butler. My great uncle Harry Place lives in New Jersey an has been tuning organs and pianos for over 6 decades. We talk often about the new advancements in the trade and how things have changed over the years, and he still mentions these Conn Strobotuners. He's also an engineer, so his knowledge goes well over my head at times, He is old school and will probably always be a hardcore analog advocate (he has a Chamberlin in his living room and another in his spare room for parts).  My question is two-fold... 1) WHY were these tuners considered to be so GREAT back in the day, and 2) How do they measure up now?  Because they are made with tubes I'm going to guess they're probably pretty heavy.






-------------------------------------------
Kristin Brooks
Cedar Rapids IA
319-504-9776
-------------------------------------------

Hi, Bruce,

We'll see if this comes through with attachment or not.

The 1936 version of the Conn tuner (with 12 windows) was the
StroboConn. The Strobotuner was the smaller model. Please see the
attached ad.

While the original was admittedly of limited use (except for running
down the theoretical rabbit hole) for piano work, the StroboConn was a
first-rate instrument for both for directly tuning band and orchestra
instruments, but, more importantly, for teaching players how their
wind/bow speed and pressure directly affect the quality of their tone.
There was no question, watching the dials...well, learning how to watch
the dials, could give one a very clear picture of what kind of tone they
were producing...what partials are prominent at what points in the
breath/bow, how articulation changes affected the tonal balance of the
attack envelope, etc, etc. (Chris Robinson used to demonstrate similar
kinds of things using an HP digital frequency display.) The real
drawback, as I think someone else pointed out, is that the two units
weighed nearly 20# each...a bit much; and, they really suck power.

While the original units still come up from time to time on eBay, both
Peterson and Planet Waves have differing versions of the same basic idea.

Only FWIW, using a unit like this can be a tremendous help in developing
voicing techniques.

Kind regards,

Horace

On 10/20/2014 9:13 PM, Bruce Dornfeld via Piano Technicians Guild wrote:
> Please do not forward this message due to Auto Login.
>
> The Conn Strobotuner you show is the third generation or design. The first had a window with a strobe for each of the twelve pitches in equal temperament. Most of the replies you have on the value and accuracy are true enough. One question I did not really see answered is "WHY were these tuners considered to be so GREAT back in the day?" Elements of the historic perspective are missing from the discussion.
>
> The original 12 window Conn Strobotuner was the first commercially available device to measure pitch. It was quite accurate when used under stable conditions. Of course, previously other devices could give accurate pitches as sound, but the Conn could measure them, how flat or sharp. When they were first used to tune pianos there were a number of things that were discovered. Of interest to us is that inharmonicity was not discovered in pianos until tuners tried to figure out why the Conn did not give us a perfect tuning. It was first thought to be just the way we were used to hearing the piano. After many fine tunings were measured with the Conn, the pattern was very clear; we tune the top end sharp and the low end flat, compared to what we believed we were doing. It took years to find inharmonicity as the answer. The first electronic tuner that could measure a piano's inharmonicity and show how to use a tuner to accurately tune a piano from end to end was Dr. Al
> Sanderson's invention: the Sight-O-Tuner, which was sold by Hale. Pianos tuners have always tuned the top end sharp from where it would theoretically be, but did not know it. Some early tuning instructions might refer to stretching an octave or a tuning, but this was not understood in the same way as it is now.
>
> As a complete aside, some years back, I was delivering some of William Braid White's old correspondence to the PTG Home Office for the Foundation's archives. I showed them to Al Sanderson. They included scale designs he made for Jesse French. Doc Sanderson looked them over and determined that even at that time, in the 1940s, one of the best educated and advanced scientific minds in the piano industry did not use any formula for inharmonicity. As early as 1917, William Braid White may have introduced the country to a reliable way to tune equal temperament, but inharmonicity would have to wait a number of decades. If you are interested in seeing other old electronic tuners, there is a page with many of them, including one just like your great uncle's, on the Foundation's website: ptgf.org
>
> -------------------------------------------
> Bruce Dornfeld
> Northbrook IL
> 847-498-0379
> -------------------------------------------
>
> -------------------------------------------
> Original Message:
> Sent: 10-15-2014 19:35
> From: Kristin Brooks
> Subject: Conn Strobotuners
>
> Hello, this is my first time posting. I am a new student, currently taking correspondence courses in piano tuning from Rick Butler. My great uncle Harry Place lives in New Jersey an has been tuning organs and pianos for over 6 decades. We talk often about the new advancements in the trade and how things have changed over the years, and he still mentions these Conn Strobotuners. He's also an engineer, so his knowledge goes well over my head at times, He is old school and will probably always be a hardcore analog advocate (he has a Chamberlin in his living room and another in his spare room for parts). My question is two-fold... 1) WHY were these tuners considered to be so GREAT back in the day, and 2) How do they measure up now? Because they are made with tubes I'm going to guess they're probably pretty heavy.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------
> Kristin Brooks
> Cedar Rapids IA
> 319-504-9776
> -------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Reply to Sender : http://my.ptg.org/eGroups/PostReply/?GroupId=43&SenderKey=b2917016-1f79-4468-8601-0082cdefde1b&MID=642394&MDATE=7569465476&UserKey=3feecf45-4a69-4cff-bbb2-fd6c7eaf0569&sKey=KeyRemoved
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Original Message------

The Conn Strobotuner you show is the third generation or design.  The first had a window with a strobe for each of the twelve pitches in equal temperament.  Most of the replies you have on the value and accuracy are true enough.  One question I did not really see answered is "WHY were these tuners considered to be so GREAT back in the day?"  Elements of the historic perspective are missing from the discussion. 

The original 12 window Conn Strobotuner was the first commercially available device to measure pitch.  It was quite accurate when used under stable conditions.  Of course, previously other devices could give accurate pitches as sound, but the Conn could measure them, how flat or sharp.  When they were first used to tune pianos there were a number of things that were discovered.  Of interest to us is that inharmonicity was not discovered in pianos until tuners tried to figure out why the Conn did not give us a perfect tuning.  It was first thought to be just the way we were used to hearing the piano.  After many fine tunings were measured with the Conn, the pattern was very clear; we tune the top end sharp and the low end flat, compared to what we believed we were doing.  It took years to find inharmonicity as the answer.  The first electronic tuner that could measure a piano's inharmonicity and show how to use a tuner to accurately tune a piano from end to end was Dr. Al Sanderson's invention: the Sight-O-Tuner, which was sold by Hale.  Pianos tuners have always tuned the top end sharp from where it would theoretically be, but did not know it.  Some early tuning instructions might refer to stretching an octave or a tuning, but this was not understood in the same way as it is now.

As a complete aside, some years back, I was delivering some of William Braid White's old correspondence to the PTG Home Office for the Foundation's archives.  I showed them to Al Sanderson.  They included scale designs he made for Jesse French.   Doc Sanderson looked them over and determined that even at that time, in the 1940s, one of the best educated and advanced scientific minds in the piano industry did not use any formula for inharmonicity.  As early as 1917, William Braid White may have introduced the country to a reliable way to tune equal temperament, but inharmonicity would have to wait a number of decades.  If you are interested in seeing other old electronic tuners, there is a page with many of them, including one just like your great uncle's, on the Foundation's website: ptgf.org 

-------------------------------------------
Bruce Dornfeld
Northbrook IL
847-498-0379
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 10-15-2014 19:35
From: Kristin Brooks
Subject: Conn Strobotuners

Hello, this is my first time posting.  I am a new student, currently taking correspondence courses in piano tuning from Rick Butler. My great uncle Harry Place lives in New Jersey an has been tuning organs and pianos for over 6 decades. We talk often about the new advancements in the trade and how things have changed over the years, and he still mentions these Conn Strobotuners. He's also an engineer, so his knowledge goes well over my head at times, He is old school and will probably always be a hardcore analog advocate (he has a Chamberlin in his living room and another in his spare room for parts).  My question is two-fold... 1) WHY were these tuners considered to be so GREAT back in the day, and 2) How do they measure up now?  Because they are made with tubes I'm going to guess they're probably pretty heavy.






-------------------------------------------
Kristin Brooks
Cedar Rapids IA
319-504-9776
-------------------------------------------

Yes Horace, you are quite right about the names of the machines.  That is great to see the add for the machines too!  That StroboConn cost quite a lot of money for the day.  I remember using this machine in school when I was learning the cello.  The fact that it did not need any switching for notes made it usable for that purpose.  The display would show me where the "correct" pitch was, but also as you mention, would show brighter and with more harmonics when bowed better.
Thank you!

-------------------------------------------
Bruce Dornfeld, RPT
PTG Foundation President
North Shore Chapter
Northbrook, IL
(847) 498-0379
bdornfeld@earthlink.net
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 10-21-2014 02:59
From: Horace Greeley
Subject: Conn Strobotuners

Hi, Bruce,

We'll see if this comes through with attachment or not.

The 1936 version of the Conn tuner (with 12 windows) was the
StroboConn. The Strobotuner was the smaller model. Please see the
attached ad.

While the original was admittedly of limited use (except for running
down the theoretical rabbit hole) for piano work, the StroboConn was a
first-rate instrument for both for directly tuning band and orchestra
instruments, but, more importantly, for teaching players how their
wind/bow speed and pressure directly affect the quality of their tone.
There was no question, watching the dials...well, learning how to watch
the dials, could give one a very clear picture of what kind of tone they
were producing...what partials are prominent at what points in the
breath/bow, how articulation changes affected the tonal balance of the
attack envelope, etc, etc. (Chris Robinson used to demonstrate similar
kinds of things using an HP digital frequency display.) The real
drawback, as I think someone else pointed out, is that the two units
weighed nearly 20# each...a bit much; and, they really suck power.

While the original units still come up from time to time on eBay, both
Peterson and Planet Waves have differing versions of the same basic idea.

Only FWIW, using a unit like this can be a tremendous help in developing
voicing techniques.

Kind regards,

Horace

On 10/20/2014 9:13 PM, Bruce Dornfeld via Piano Technicians Guild wrote:
> Please do not forward this message due to Auto Login.
>
> The Conn Strobotuner you show is the third generation or design. The first had a window with a strobe for each of the twelve pitches in equal temperament. Most of the replies you have on the value and accuracy are true enough. One question I did not really see answered is "WHY were these tuners considered to be so GREAT back in the day?" Elements of the historic perspective are missing from the discussion.
>
> The original 12 window Conn Strobotuner was the first commercially available device to measure pitch. It was quite accurate when used under stable conditions. Of course, previously other devices could give accurate pitches as sound, but the Conn could measure them, how flat or sharp. When they were first used to tune pianos there were a number of things that were discovered. Of interest to us is that inharmonicity was not discovered in pianos until tuners tried to figure out why the Conn did not give us a perfect tuning. It was first thought to be just the way we were used to hearing the piano. After many fine tunings were measured with the Conn, the pattern was very clear; we tune the top end sharp and the low end flat, compared to what we believed we were doing. It took years to find inharmonicity as the answer. The first electronic tuner that could measure a piano's inharmonicity and show how to use a tuner to accurately tune a piano from end to end was Dr. Al
> Sanderson's invention: the Sight-O-Tuner, which was sold by Hale. Pianos tuners have always tuned the top end sharp from where it would theoretically be, but did not know it. Some early tuning instructions might refer to stretching an octave or a tuning, but this was not understood in the same way as it is now.
>
> As a complete aside, some years back, I was delivering some of William Braid White's old correspondence to the PTG Home Office for the Foundation's archives. I showed them to Al Sanderson. They included scale designs he made for Jesse French. Doc Sanderson looked them over and determined that even at that time, in the 1940s, one of the best educated and advanced scientific minds in the piano industry did not use any formula for inharmonicity. As early as 1917, William Braid White may have introduced the country to a reliable way to tune equal temperament, but inharmonicity would have to wait a number of decades. If you are interested in seeing other old electronic tuners, there is a page with many of them, including one just like your great uncle's, on the Foundation's website: ptgf.org
>
> -------------------------------------------
> Bruce Dornfeld
> Northbrook IL
> 847-498-0379
> -------------------------------------------
>
> -------------------------------------------
> Original Message:
> Sent: 10-15-2014 19:35
> From: Kristin Brooks
> Subject: Conn Strobotuners
>
> Hello, this is my first time posting. I am a new student, currently taking correspondence courses in piano tuning from Rick Butler. My great uncle Harry Place lives in New Jersey an has been tuning organs and pianos for over 6 decades. We talk often about the new advancements in the trade and how things have changed over the years, and he still mentions these Conn Strobotuners. He's also an engineer, so his knowledge goes well over my head at times, He is old school and will probably always be a hardcore analog advocate (he has a Chamberlin in his living room and another in his spare room for parts). My question is two-fold... 1) WHY were these tuners considered to be so GREAT back in the day, and 2) How do they measure up now? Because they are made with tubes I'm going to guess they're probably pretty heavy.
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> -------------------------------------------
> Kristin Brooks
> Cedar Rapids IA
> 319-504-9776
> -------------------------------------------
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Original Message------

The Conn Strobotuner you show is the third generation or design.  The first had a window with a strobe for each of the twelve pitches in equal temperament.  Most of the replies you have on the value and accuracy are true enough.  One question I did not really see answered is "WHY were these tuners considered to be so GREAT back in the day?"  Elements of the historic perspective are missing from the discussion. 

The original 12 window Conn Strobotuner was the first commercially available device to measure pitch.  It was quite accurate when used under stable conditions.  Of course, previously other devices could give accurate pitches as sound, but the Conn could measure them, how flat or sharp.  When they were first used to tune pianos there were a number of things that were discovered.  Of interest to us is that inharmonicity was not discovered in pianos until tuners tried to figure out why the Conn did not give us a perfect tuning.  It was first thought to be just the way we were used to hearing the piano.  After many fine tunings were measured with the Conn, the pattern was very clear; we tune the top end sharp and the low end flat, compared to what we believed we were doing.  It took years to find inharmonicity as the answer.  The first electronic tuner that could measure a piano's inharmonicity and show how to use a tuner to accurately tune a piano from end to end was Dr. Al Sanderson's invention: the Sight-O-Tuner, which was sold by Hale.  Pianos tuners have always tuned the top end sharp from where it would theoretically be, but did not know it.  Some early tuning instructions might refer to stretching an octave or a tuning, but this was not understood in the same way as it is now.

As a complete aside, some years back, I was delivering some of William Braid White's old correspondence to the PTG Home Office for the Foundation's archives.  I showed them to Al Sanderson.  They included scale designs he made for Jesse French.   Doc Sanderson looked them over and determined that even at that time, in the 1940s, one of the best educated and advanced scientific minds in the piano industry did not use any formula for inharmonicity.  As early as 1917, William Braid White may have introduced the country to a reliable way to tune equal temperament, but inharmonicity would have to wait a number of decades.  If you are interested in seeing other old electronic tuners, there is a page with many of them, including one just like your great uncle's, on the Foundation's website: ptgf.org 

-------------------------------------------
Bruce Dornfeld
Northbrook IL
847-498-0379
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 10-15-2014 19:35
From: Kristin Brooks
Subject: Conn Strobotuners

Hello, this is my first time posting.  I am a new student, currently taking correspondence courses in piano tuning from Rick Butler. My great uncle Harry Place lives in New Jersey an has been tuning organs and pianos for over 6 decades. We talk often about the new advancements in the trade and how things have changed over the years, and he still mentions these Conn Strobotuners. He's also an engineer, so his knowledge goes well over my head at times, He is old school and will probably always be a hardcore analog advocate (he has a Chamberlin in his living room and another in his spare room for parts).  My question is two-fold... 1) WHY were these tuners considered to be so GREAT back in the day, and 2) How do they measure up now?  Because they are made with tubes I'm going to guess they're probably pretty heavy.






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Kristin Brooks
Cedar Rapids IA
319-504-9776
-------------------------------------------