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Painted black keys

  • 1.  Painted black keys

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-02-2015 14:31

    One of the things I do that I consider regular service is to clean the keys. The wooden black keys on older pianos are frequently painted, and during cleaning that paint comes off and gets on the white keys. Extra work. What can I do to the black keys to stop this from happening? Strip and repaint? Seal? Replace? 

    Thanks --

    -- G


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    Geoff Sykes, RPT
    Los Angeles CA
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  • 2.  RE: Painted black keys

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-02-2015 19:12

    If you can afford the time I would recommend lightly sanding and shooting with a black lacquer (flat, semi gloss or gloss as appropriate).  Otherwise just use two rags for cleaning.

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    Blaine Hebert
    Duarte CA
    626-795-5170
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    Original Message


  • 3.  RE: Painted black keys

    Posted 08-02-2015 20:58

    If you scrape them down to the wood and it is unacceptable, replace. A good paint job is difficult and will soften from the oils on fingers.

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    Regards,

    Jon Page



  • 4.  RE: Painted black keys

    Posted 08-02-2015 21:10
    Considering time and likelihood of getting a good job, wouldn't you
    about break even by replacing them in the first place?
    Ron N


    Original Message


  • 5.  RE: Painted black keys

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-03-2015 02:52

    If you can get the old keys off cleanly (a table saw is preferable) and you can replace them and still show a profit then by all means do it!

    Using two cleaning rags or just shooting them with lacquer is easier to bid and get the job.

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    Blaine Hebert
    Duarte CA
    626-795-5170
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    Original Message


  • 6.  RE: Painted black keys

    Member
    Posted 08-03-2015 09:20


    Chuck Behm has an article in the journal on this type of job. I have a piano with the same type of issue black flaking off. poor rebuild job customer bought based on a sales job by the guy now she has a love hate relationship with the piano. I had to replace all the bass damper felts because wrong size felt was used and the bass bled
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    James Kelly
    Pawleys Island SC
    843-325-4357
    --------f----------------------


    Original Message


  • 7.  RE: Painted black keys

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-03-2015 09:22

    What are you cleaning with that the paint is coming off?

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    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
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    Original Message


  • 8.  RE: Painted black keys

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-03-2015 12:09

    Since you're doing this during a service call refinishing the sharps obviously doesn't make sense.  Try using the Cory prepolish cleaner and a microfiber cleaning cloth.  Take off the upstop rail (grand) so you can raise the sharps slightly or depress the adjacent naturals.  Spray the cloth, not the key, drape the cloth over the key and pay attention to pressure on the sides of the keys where much of the gunk accumulates and is never cleaned.  It may take a couple of passes if they are really nasty.  Use Key Brite or the regular piano polish (satin or gloss as the case may be) to finish the polishing.  Probably don't need to do this at each visit.  One time should last a couple of years for the sides.  The tops of the sharps are relatively easy to access.  


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    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    ------------------------------


    Original Message


  • 9.  RE: Painted black keys

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-03-2015 12:45

    I'm using the single serving WetWipes, which I carry around in my case all the time for this job. 

    I'm not convinced it is actually the paint, now that you mention it. I'm not getting flakes. Just black coloring that comes off on my cleaning cloth and gets messy on the whites. My experience is that owners almost never clean the keys, and that many techs, sad to say, are the equivalent of mow-n-blow gardeners. Which means that what I'm probably pulling off, at least off the sides, is YEARS of accumulated gunk. I will try your Cory suggestion and plan on a bit more time on the next one. Thanks. 

    -- GS

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    Geoff Sykes, RPT
    Los Angeles CA
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    Original Message


  • 10.  RE: Painted black keys

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-03-2015 19:26

    Do those wet-wipes contain alcohol?  If so then you can't use them.  The  older sharps are finished with shellac (alcohol based) often and the stains also are alcohol sensitive.  So double check to see if that's the case.  A water based cleaner won't have that problem.  

    I agree there is often a nasty accumulation of schmutz on the sides of the sharps that doesn't get addressed. 


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    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    ------------------------------


    Original Message


  • 11.  RE: Painted black keys

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-04-2015 01:12

    Shellac? Definitely a possibility. The problem shows up so rarely that I never considered it. Just the same, what kind of water based cleaner would you recommend as an alternative? 

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    Geoff Sykes, RPT
    Los Angeles CA
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    Original Message


  • 12.  RE: Painted black keys

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-04-2015 19:04

    I just use any of the Cory Cleaning and Polishing Products.  The pre finish cleaner I mentioned earlier does a nice job and won't mar or dissolve the finish, key bright.  If they are really gunked up then it might take a couple of passes.  Lots of rags.  

    You won't get flakes, btw, if you are using alcohol based product.  Alcohol will also mar lacquer finishes so even if the keys have a coating of black lacquer you won't want to be using products that have alcohol.



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    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    ------------------------------


    Original Message


  • 13.  RE: Painted black keys

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-04-2015 03:48

    There might be two or three issues here:

    1. If the keys are very dirty you may be getting an unusual amount of dirt residue from the sharps which accumulate more than the flat smooth naturals; keep cleaning!

    2. Many sharps were stained with black (or dark red or blue) aniline stain which can bleed off on a wet rag; use two rags.

    3. You may have a finish that is deteriorating due to age, chemical decomposition or reacting with human skin oils; sand and refinish.

    I usually find that aniline dyes are bleeding off onto my cleaning rag.  The only solution I know of is to sand and finish the keys; I prefer black semigloss lacquer.  I also might suggest a very thorough cleaning and allow the natural color of the ebony to show through, but that is between you and the customer.

    Shooting a set of sharps is about a two hour job (with prepping), charge accordingly.  Don't do it in the home and spray their lawn furniture or you will be out the cost of new furniture!

    Just MHO...

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    Blaine Hebert
    Duarte CA
    626-795-5170
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    Original Message