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Soundboard Cracks

  • 1.  Soundboard Cracks

    Posted 03-01-2016 10:25
    Hello,

    a Customer of mine has soundboard problem with little cracks. How Can I fix without removing strings and other mechanical part...

    All the Best, Ali Altuncevahir

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  • 2.  RE: Soundboard Cracks

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-01-2016 10:47
    Hi, Ali:
    I don't know how you're going to have access to the cracks unless the strings are out of the way. Maybe you could loosen the strings and remove them from the hitch pins and then move them out of the way. But if the plate is hiding some of them, how are you going to get to work on them? It would better to find where the cracks cross any ribs and make sure that the board to rib joint is still solid. Many times the crack has opened up and the ribs are not still attached to the board under the rib, so you have to work some glue in there and try to clamp it together again. If you do that, most likely there won't be any buzzing. Cosmetically, a crack isn't good, but functionally a crack in and of itself isn't really a problem. The board will still sound fine. If you want to "V" out the crack and insert a shim, then you have to get access to it by removing the strings and/or plate. That is the proper way to address the problem.
    Paul McCloud
    San Diego




  • 3.  RE: Soundboard Cracks

    Posted 03-01-2016 11:07

    Actually my main problem which type of glue Are you using for this kind of problem...

    Thank you very much...

    ------------------------------
    Ali Altuncevahir
    Eyup
    5432436404



  • 4.  RE: Soundboard Cracks

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-01-2016 11:58
    I would use epoxy, but any gap filling glue would work. Because the humidity changes will open and close the gap, glue isn't all that effective in the long run. I don't think it's been discussed recently, but you could check the archives. I bet somebody will have a better idea about this, since I don't do this repair very often.
    Paul McCloud




  • 5.  RE: Soundboard Cracks

    Posted 03-01-2016 13:00

    Thank you very much, I was also thinking to use epoxy...

    All the Best

    ------------------------------
    Ali Altuncevahir
    Eyup
    5432436404



  • 6.  RE: Soundboard Cracks

    Posted 03-01-2016 13:09

    Any wood glue will help reattach a loose rib. I would not attempt to fill the cracks with epoxy. The cracks will [probably disappear in the humid months and reappear in the drier months. Shimming the cracks following proper woodworking procedures will offer better results but probably will crack again in the future. Cracks are not the end of the board but loss of crown is.

    You might consider a new sounding board. Humidity control would be helpful too.

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    Regards,

    Jon Page



  • 7.  RE: Soundboard Cracks

    Posted 03-01-2016 13:26

    Thank you for your advice...

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    Ali Altuncevahir
    Eyup
    5432436404



  • 8.  RE: Soundboard Cracks

    Posted 03-01-2016 13:28
    > Cracks are not the end of the board but loss of crown is.

    Yes it is, and if there are loose ribs at all, the soundboard is trash.
    You will do nothing of any functional benefit by shimming cracks. It's
    strictly cosmetic and ignores whatever real deficiencies are there. It's
    a waste of your time and your customer's money.
    Ron N




  • 9.  RE: Soundboard Cracks

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-01-2016 20:37

    > Cracks are not the end of the board but loss of crown is.

    Yes it is, and if there are loose ribs at all, the soundboard is trash.

    Ronald Nossaman,  7 hours ago

    Ron, all: What sonic reasons merit a new board or are they mostly vetted and valued by eye? For instance what are typical before and after ring times? Is there a favored ratio of ring time decline from bass to treble? Is dynamic contrast objectively measurable and are there known volume and sustain times to aim for? Down bearing measurements are often mentioned. What else please?

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    Paul Klaus



  • 10.  RE: Soundboard Cracks

    Posted 03-01-2016 21:41
    Evident in the top half of the scale: distortion on a medium to hard
    blow, diminished sustain. Check bearing and crown everywhere in the
    piano you can reach, not just on the long rib as we were all taught.
    There should be positive bearing over positive crown everywhere. If not,
    the soundboard isn't structurally doing it's job. It may sound
    acceptable in high humidity seasons, and horrible when it dries out.
    You'll get the call, naturally, when it's dry. They'll want that killer
    octave voiced away. It sounded fine a couple of months ago, so maybe it
    was something you did last time you tuned it. There aren't any checklist
    numbers or go/no-go gauge for automatic diagnosis. It's a matter of how
    far gone it is, and whether it's past the owner's tolerance threshold.
    We've all heard so many dead soundboards, we tend to accept them as
    normal, but if you spend some time with a well functioning board, it's
    hard to listen to the usual stuff again. Distortion and limited spectrum
    are present in the low half of the scale as well, but it's not as
    dramatic and obnoxious as killer octaves and trebles that "dink"
    typically are.
    Ron N




  • 11.  RE: Soundboard Cracks

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-02-2016 04:03

    We've all heard so many dead soundboards

    Ronald Nossaman,  6 hours ago

    I have only heard a very few for sure out of 50 plus years of playing and xxxxxs of examples.

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    Paul Klaus



  • 12.  RE: Soundboard Cracks

    Posted 03-02-2016 14:17
    No, you've heard hundreds. As I said, there are so many and we are so
    used to hearing them that we don't notice the difference.
    Ron N




  • 13.  RE: Soundboard Cracks

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-02-2016 03:44

    You might consider a new sounding board

    Jon Page,  14 hours ago

    About the last thing I'd want to hear. Jon: What about Alis' question prompted this suggestion?

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    Paul Klaus



  • 14.  RE: Soundboard Cracks

    Posted 03-02-2016 06:57

    Shimming cracks is purely cosmetic and adds nothing to the acoustic properties. The only cure for cracks is a new board.

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    Regards,

    Jon Page



  • 15.  RE: Soundboard Cracks

    Posted 03-02-2016 02:21

    Ali - Are these cracks in the soundboard causing any buzzes etc? If not it will be unnecessary to address the 'problem'.  Michael   UK

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    Michael Gamble
    semi retired
    Brighton
    01273813612



  • 16.  RE: Soundboard Cracks

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-02-2016 11:26

    Hi Ali,

    Lack of humidity is your main problem with cracked soundboards.  Couple that with age and the soundboard panel doesn't stand a chance of doing it's job after many decades of this.  There's been numerous attempts made to save cracked soundboards and the test of time after the repair has proven these procedures to be a waste of time.  Filling the crack with material that doesn't expand and contract like wood will generate a new crack right along side the repair.  Meanwhile the customer is out the money and the soundboard is still compromised.

    In short, the climate in Turkey is not kind to soundboards for the long term exposure pianos typically take.  I'd advise the customer to consider a newer replacement piano and then install a piano climate/humidity control system such as Dampp-Chaser.  

    Lar

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    Larry Fisher
    Owner, Chief Grunt, Head Hosehead
    Vancouver WA
    360-256-2999



  • 17.  RE: Soundboard Cracks

    Posted 03-03-2016 04:00

    Thank for All, I read all comments here. I will discuss with my customer. Actually the piano coming from old brand. It is hard to build up or find new soundboard and also there is no advance workshop to replace new soundboard etc. For urgent I will glue and I will tell everything to my customer about situation of his piano. 

    All the Best, Ali

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    Ali Altuncevahir
    Istanbul/Turkey
    5432436404