Pianotech

I got an email last night from a new piano teacher in town who asked if I'd be able to make his teaching piano (a Cable Nelson spinet) quieter, either through installing a muffler rail or adjusting the action in some way. Of course, I could reduce the blow distance, but that would then require other adjustments and I don't know if that would actually make enough of a difference for him. I've never installed a muffler rail and I don't even know if it's possible on a spinet. It doesn't seem like there would be enough room for one in there. Any ideas? Suggestions?


------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

If the hammers are really hard and brash, you could try reshaping them and if need be, voicing with a little bit of vodka, using less on good areas and more on the nastier parts. Use discretion, start with a few drops, see how it goes. Never soak the hammer shoulders with it. Needling to even out the results usually helps. Sometimes if the hammers have been pounded hard, vodka will raise a little ridge just outside the sticke area, where the felt has been compacted instead of flaked off. A little work with a hammer file can take this down.

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 13:56
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

I got an email last night from a new piano teacher in town who asked if I'd be able to make his teaching piano (a Cable Nelson spinet) quieter, either through installing a muffler rail or adjusting the action in some way. Of course, I could reduce the blow distance, but that would then require other adjustments and I don't know if that would actually make enough of a difference for him. I've never installed a muffler rail and I don't even know if it's possible on a spinet. It doesn't seem like there would be enough room for one in there. Any ideas? Suggestions?


------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

you could make a "manual" muffler rail.  Basically a simple 3/4" wood stick with a piece of thin cloth running the length.  Set it up with some type of hanger so the teacher can drop it in between the hammers and the strings. Felt might be more dampening than desired, thin cotton might be just about right.  Quieter, but still sounds like a piano.

------------------------------
Jeffrey Gegner
Tipton IN
765-860-5900
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 13:56
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

I got an email last night from a new piano teacher in town who asked if I'd be able to make his teaching piano (a Cable Nelson spinet) quieter, either through installing a muffler rail or adjusting the action in some way. Of course, I could reduce the blow distance, but that would then require other adjustments and I don't know if that would actually make enough of a difference for him. I've never installed a muffler rail and I don't even know if it's possible on a spinet. It doesn't seem like there would be enough room for one in there. Any ideas? Suggestions?


------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

Jeffrey G wrote:  "Quieter, but still sounds like a piano."

Which leave one to ask: Does a Cable Nelson spinet sound like a piano? Or at least a piano one would want to listen to? And play? And teach on?

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 14:32
From: Jeffrey Gegner
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

you could make a "manual" muffler rail.  Basically a simple 3/4" wood stick with a piece of thin cloth running the length.  Set it up with some type of hanger so the teacher can drop it in between the hammers and the strings. Felt might be more dampening than desired, thin cotton might be just about right.  Quieter, but still sounds like a piano.

------------------------------
Jeffrey Gegner
Tipton IN
765-860-5900

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 13:56
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

I got an email last night from a new piano teacher in town who asked if I'd be able to make his teaching piano (a Cable Nelson spinet) quieter, either through installing a muffler rail or adjusting the action in some way. Of course, I could reduce the blow distance, but that would then require other adjustments and I don't know if that would actually make enough of a difference for him. I've never installed a muffler rail and I don't even know if it's possible on a spinet. It doesn't seem like there would be enough room for one in there. Any ideas? Suggestions?


------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

Good point Terry! Anything I do to this Cable Nelson spinet is probably not going to make it sound any worse or less "like a piano!" With that said, the majority of pianos I've worked on are less-than-ideal spinets and consoles because that's what people have and I don't want to make them feel bad for what they own and can afford. This particular customer is a younger guy who I'm assuming is just getting his start in teaching. If I can help him out now, perhaps he'll eventually upgrade to a nicer piano and hire me to work on that one as well!

------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-01-2019 06:10
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Jeffrey G wrote:  "Quieter, but still sounds like a piano."

Which leave one to ask: Does a Cable Nelson spinet sound like a piano? Or at least a piano one would want to listen to? And play? And teach on?

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 14:32
From: Jeffrey Gegner
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

you could make a "manual" muffler rail.  Basically a simple 3/4" wood stick with a piece of thin cloth running the length.  Set it up with some type of hanger so the teacher can drop it in between the hammers and the strings. Felt might be more dampening than desired, thin cotton might be just about right.  Quieter, but still sounds like a piano.

------------------------------
Jeffrey Gegner
Tipton IN
765-860-5900

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 13:56
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

I got an email last night from a new piano teacher in town who asked if I'd be able to make his teaching piano (a Cable Nelson spinet) quieter, either through installing a muffler rail or adjusting the action in some way. Of course, I could reduce the blow distance, but that would then require other adjustments and I don't know if that would actually make enough of a difference for him. I've never installed a muffler rail and I don't even know if it's possible on a spinet. It doesn't seem like there would be enough room for one in there. Any ideas? Suggestions?


------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

Andrea wrote:  "Good point Terry! Anything I do to this Cable Nelson spinet is probably not going to make it sound any worse or less "like a piano!""

I'm glad you don't seem to have taken my comments as too smart alecky. I really don't want to be looking down my nose at anyone's piano - and I don't care for folks that do, but at the same time I do find myself frustrated with people that need a good piano and seem to settle for far less. Even a 20-something year-old Yamha or Kawai console can be found in great shape for under $1K - and generally speaking such a piano would be sooooooo much nicer than the most Cable Nelson spinets that I have run across. I suspect it is often the case that folks just don't know what is available at very reasonable costs.

That being said, what might be a good first step would be to simply drop a couple thick blankets down the back from the lid and push the piano up against the wall - that'll tell you whether baffles or some-such would meet your needs. As others pointed out, voicing will help also. On pianos like the one here, I'd hit the hammers with steam voicing - very effective, very fast, and very controllable. I use the Roger Jolly method with damp rags and a hot hammer iron - works like a charm.

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-06-2019 13:53
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Good point Terry! Anything I do to this Cable Nelson spinet is probably not going to make it sound any worse or less "like a piano!" With that said, the majority of pianos I've worked on are less-than-ideal spinets and consoles because that's what people have and I don't want to make them feel bad for what they own and can afford. This particular customer is a younger guy who I'm assuming is just getting his start in teaching. If I can help him out now, perhaps he'll eventually upgrade to a nicer piano and hire me to work on that one as well!

------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697

Original Message:
Sent: 08-01-2019 06:10
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Jeffrey G wrote:  "Quieter, but still sounds like a piano."

Which leave one to ask: Does a Cable Nelson spinet sound like a piano? Or at least a piano one would want to listen to? And play? And teach on?

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 14:32
From: Jeffrey Gegner
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

you could make a "manual" muffler rail.  Basically a simple 3/4" wood stick with a piece of thin cloth running the length.  Set it up with some type of hanger so the teacher can drop it in between the hammers and the strings. Felt might be more dampening than desired, thin cotton might be just about right.  Quieter, but still sounds like a piano.

------------------------------
Jeffrey Gegner
Tipton IN
765-860-5900

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 13:56
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

I got an email last night from a new piano teacher in town who asked if I'd be able to make his teaching piano (a Cable Nelson spinet) quieter, either through installing a muffler rail or adjusting the action in some way. Of course, I could reduce the blow distance, but that would then require other adjustments and I don't know if that would actually make enough of a difference for him. I've never installed a muffler rail and I don't even know if it's possible on a spinet. It doesn't seem like there would be enough room for one in there. Any ideas? Suggestions?


------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

Are you sure a 20-something year old Yamaha or Kawai upright in great shape can be found for $1,000 or so -- in Palmer, Alaska?

Unknown what their piano market is like, of course.

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-06-2019 16:57
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Andrea wrote:  "Good point Terry! Anything I do to this Cable Nelson spinet is probably not going to make it sound any worse or less "like a piano!""

I'm glad you don't seem to have taken my comments as too smart alecky. I really don't want to be looking down my nose at anyone's piano - and I don't care for folks that do, but at the same time I do find myself frustrated with people that need a good piano and seem to settle for far less. Even a 20-something year-old Yamha or Kawai console can be found in great shape for under $1K - and generally speaking such a piano would be sooooooo much nicer than the most Cable Nelson spinets that I have run across. I suspect it is often the case that folks just don't know what is available at very reasonable costs.

That being said, what might be a good first step would be to simply drop a couple thick blankets down the back from the lid and push the piano up against the wall - that'll tell you whether baffles or some-such would meet your needs. As others pointed out, voicing will help also. On pianos like the one here, I'd hit the hammers with steam voicing - very effective, very fast, and very controllable. I use the Roger Jolly method with damp rags and a hot hammer iron - works like a charm.

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505

Original Message:
Sent: 08-06-2019 13:53
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Good point Terry! Anything I do to this Cable Nelson spinet is probably not going to make it sound any worse or less "like a piano!" With that said, the majority of pianos I've worked on are less-than-ideal spinets and consoles because that's what people have and I don't want to make them feel bad for what they own and can afford. This particular customer is a younger guy who I'm assuming is just getting his start in teaching. If I can help him out now, perhaps he'll eventually upgrade to a nicer piano and hire me to work on that one as well!

------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697

Original Message:
Sent: 08-01-2019 06:10
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Jeffrey G wrote:  "Quieter, but still sounds like a piano."

Which leave one to ask: Does a Cable Nelson spinet sound like a piano? Or at least a piano one would want to listen to? And play? And teach on?

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 14:32
From: Jeffrey Gegner
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

you could make a "manual" muffler rail.  Basically a simple 3/4" wood stick with a piece of thin cloth running the length.  Set it up with some type of hanger so the teacher can drop it in between the hammers and the strings. Felt might be more dampening than desired, thin cotton might be just about right.  Quieter, but still sounds like a piano.

------------------------------
Jeffrey Gegner
Tipton IN
765-860-5900

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 13:56
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

I got an email last night from a new piano teacher in town who asked if I'd be able to make his teaching piano (a Cable Nelson spinet) quieter, either through installing a muffler rail or adjusting the action in some way. Of course, I could reduce the blow distance, but that would then require other adjustments and I don't know if that would actually make enough of a difference for him. I've never installed a muffler rail and I don't even know if it's possible on a spinet. It doesn't seem like there would be enough room for one in there. Any ideas? Suggestions?


------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

Susan K. wrote: "Are you sure a 20-something year old Yamaha or Kawai upright in great shape can be found for $1,000 or so -- in Palmer, Alaska?"

Well, good question. Let's look. Anchorage (20 miles away) has a Yamaha P22 for and asking price of $1900, a Yamaha P2 for $1400, a Yamaha console for $2,200, another P22 for $2K, a U1 for $3,250, a Yamaha M450 console for $1400, another Yamaha P2 for $2K, a clean-looking Yamaha M1A console IN PALMER for $900, and last but not least, what appears to be a Kawai studio upright for $1,995.

My experience is that most any asking price in a private sale can be negotiated down by 10% to 25% - especially if the prospective buyer has a good piano tech inspect the piano and produce the long list of "needs" (like regulation, etc.) the piano has. Clearly, the M1A right in town for $900 is many times the piano of the typical Cable-Nelson. The couple pianos with the asking price of $1400 might be negotiated down pretty close to the $1K arbitrary goal we have identified.

Actually, I'm a bit surprised there is the selection of nice used pianos that I found. One can look on Offerup and Facebook Marketplace also - usually many pianos there. And of course, in the upcoming weeks and months, other pianos will make their way to market. So it would sure seem that, yeah, even in Palmer, Alaska!

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-06-2019 22:06
From: Susan Kline
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Are you sure a 20-something year old Yamaha or Kawai upright in great shape can be found for $1,000 or so -- in Palmer, Alaska?

Unknown what their piano market is like, of course.

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon

Original Message:
Sent: 08-06-2019 16:57
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Andrea wrote:  "Good point Terry! Anything I do to this Cable Nelson spinet is probably not going to make it sound any worse or less "like a piano!""

I'm glad you don't seem to have taken my comments as too smart alecky. I really don't want to be looking down my nose at anyone's piano - and I don't care for folks that do, but at the same time I do find myself frustrated with people that need a good piano and seem to settle for far less. Even a 20-something year-old Yamha or Kawai console can be found in great shape for under $1K - and generally speaking such a piano would be sooooooo much nicer than the most Cable Nelson spinets that I have run across. I suspect it is often the case that folks just don't know what is available at very reasonable costs.

That being said, what might be a good first step would be to simply drop a couple thick blankets down the back from the lid and push the piano up against the wall - that'll tell you whether baffles or some-such would meet your needs. As others pointed out, voicing will help also. On pianos like the one here, I'd hit the hammers with steam voicing - very effective, very fast, and very controllable. I use the Roger Jolly method with damp rags and a hot hammer iron - works like a charm.

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505

Original Message:
Sent: 08-06-2019 13:53
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Good point Terry! Anything I do to this Cable Nelson spinet is probably not going to make it sound any worse or less "like a piano!" With that said, the majority of pianos I've worked on are less-than-ideal spinets and consoles because that's what people have and I don't want to make them feel bad for what they own and can afford. This particular customer is a younger guy who I'm assuming is just getting his start in teaching. If I can help him out now, perhaps he'll eventually upgrade to a nicer piano and hire me to work on that one as well!

------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697

Original Message:
Sent: 08-01-2019 06:10
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Jeffrey G wrote:  "Quieter, but still sounds like a piano."

Which leave one to ask: Does a Cable Nelson spinet sound like a piano? Or at least a piano one would want to listen to? And play? And teach on?

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 14:32
From: Jeffrey Gegner
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

you could make a "manual" muffler rail.  Basically a simple 3/4" wood stick with a piece of thin cloth running the length.  Set it up with some type of hanger so the teacher can drop it in between the hammers and the strings. Felt might be more dampening than desired, thin cotton might be just about right.  Quieter, but still sounds like a piano.

------------------------------
Jeffrey Gegner
Tipton IN
765-860-5900

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 13:56
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

I got an email last night from a new piano teacher in town who asked if I'd be able to make his teaching piano (a Cable Nelson spinet) quieter, either through installing a muffler rail or adjusting the action in some way. Of course, I could reduce the blow distance, but that would then require other adjustments and I don't know if that would actually make enough of a difference for him. I've never installed a muffler rail and I don't even know if it's possible on a spinet. It doesn't seem like there would be enough room for one in there. Any ideas? Suggestions?


------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

Terry - thanks for doing the research! I've actually seen most of the pianos you mention on craigslist and Facebook Marketplace too. There are a few nice ones out there, even in our relatively small market. In fact, I'd buy one of them myself if I had an extra $1000 to spend, which I don't. And I think that's probably true of this piano teacher and others as well. For a young person just starting a new business $1000 isn't chump change! One day though...

------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-07-2019 13:22
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Susan K. wrote: "Are you sure a 20-something year old Yamaha or Kawai upright in great shape can be found for $1,000 or so -- in Palmer, Alaska?"

Well, good question. Let's look. Anchorage (20 miles away) has a Yamaha P22 for and asking price of $1900, a Yamaha P2 for $1400, a Yamaha console for $2,200, another P22 for $2K, a U1 for $3,250, a Yamaha M450 console for $1400, another Yamaha P2 for $2K, a clean-looking Yamaha M1A console IN PALMER for $900, and last but not least, what appears to be a Kawai studio upright for $1,995.

My experience is that most any asking price in a private sale can be negotiated down by 10% to 25% - especially if the prospective buyer has a good piano tech inspect the piano and produce the long list of "needs" (like regulation, etc.) the piano has. Clearly, the M1A right in town for $900 is many times the piano of the typical Cable-Nelson. The couple pianos with the asking price of $1400 might be negotiated down pretty close to the $1K arbitrary goal we have identified.

Actually, I'm a bit surprised there is the selection of nice used pianos that I found. One can look on Offerup and Facebook Marketplace also - usually many pianos there. And of course, in the upcoming weeks and months, other pianos will make their way to market. So it would sure seem that, yeah, even in Palmer, Alaska!

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505

Original Message:
Sent: 08-06-2019 22:06
From: Susan Kline
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Are you sure a 20-something year old Yamaha or Kawai upright in great shape can be found for $1,000 or so -- in Palmer, Alaska?

Unknown what their piano market is like, of course.

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon

Original Message:
Sent: 08-06-2019 16:57
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Andrea wrote:  "Good point Terry! Anything I do to this Cable Nelson spinet is probably not going to make it sound any worse or less "like a piano!""

I'm glad you don't seem to have taken my comments as too smart alecky. I really don't want to be looking down my nose at anyone's piano - and I don't care for folks that do, but at the same time I do find myself frustrated with people that need a good piano and seem to settle for far less. Even a 20-something year-old Yamha or Kawai console can be found in great shape for under $1K - and generally speaking such a piano would be sooooooo much nicer than the most Cable Nelson spinets that I have run across. I suspect it is often the case that folks just don't know what is available at very reasonable costs.

That being said, what might be a good first step would be to simply drop a couple thick blankets down the back from the lid and push the piano up against the wall - that'll tell you whether baffles or some-such would meet your needs. As others pointed out, voicing will help also. On pianos like the one here, I'd hit the hammers with steam voicing - very effective, very fast, and very controllable. I use the Roger Jolly method with damp rags and a hot hammer iron - works like a charm.

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505

Original Message:
Sent: 08-06-2019 13:53
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Good point Terry! Anything I do to this Cable Nelson spinet is probably not going to make it sound any worse or less "like a piano!" With that said, the majority of pianos I've worked on are less-than-ideal spinets and consoles because that's what people have and I don't want to make them feel bad for what they own and can afford. This particular customer is a younger guy who I'm assuming is just getting his start in teaching. If I can help him out now, perhaps he'll eventually upgrade to a nicer piano and hire me to work on that one as well!

------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697

Original Message:
Sent: 08-01-2019 06:10
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Jeffrey G wrote:  "Quieter, but still sounds like a piano."

Which leave one to ask: Does a Cable Nelson spinet sound like a piano? Or at least a piano one would want to listen to? And play? And teach on?

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 14:32
From: Jeffrey Gegner
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

you could make a "manual" muffler rail.  Basically a simple 3/4" wood stick with a piece of thin cloth running the length.  Set it up with some type of hanger so the teacher can drop it in between the hammers and the strings. Felt might be more dampening than desired, thin cotton might be just about right.  Quieter, but still sounds like a piano.

------------------------------
Jeffrey Gegner
Tipton IN
765-860-5900

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 13:56
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

I got an email last night from a new piano teacher in town who asked if I'd be able to make his teaching piano (a Cable Nelson spinet) quieter, either through installing a muffler rail or adjusting the action in some way. Of course, I could reduce the blow distance, but that would then require other adjustments and I don't know if that would actually make enough of a difference for him. I've never installed a muffler rail and I don't even know if it's possible on a spinet. It doesn't seem like there would be enough room for one in there. Any ideas? Suggestions?


------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

Last week I went with a new member to look at pianos in a large thrift shop.
They had about 20 pianos, most of which belonged in the dump, but to my surprise there were three late 20th century studio consoles in excellent condition, and they were asking $65 each! The store managers had no ability to evaluate pianos. If I'd had a truck and a barn I might have hauled them home. Probably costs too much to ship them to Alaska!

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-09-2019 22:25
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Terry - thanks for doing the research! I've actually seen most of the pianos you mention on craigslist and Facebook Marketplace too. There are a few nice ones out there, even in our relatively small market. In fact, I'd buy one of them myself if I had an extra $1000 to spend, which I don't. And I think that's probably true of this piano teacher and others as well. For a young person just starting a new business $1000 isn't chump change! One day though...

------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697

Original Message:
Sent: 08-07-2019 13:22
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Susan K. wrote: "Are you sure a 20-something year old Yamaha or Kawai upright in great shape can be found for $1,000 or so -- in Palmer, Alaska?"

Well, good question. Let's look. Anchorage (20 miles away) has a Yamaha P22 for and asking price of $1900, a Yamaha P2 for $1400, a Yamaha console for $2,200, another P22 for $2K, a U1 for $3,250, a Yamaha M450 console for $1400, another Yamaha P2 for $2K, a clean-looking Yamaha M1A console IN PALMER for $900, and last but not least, what appears to be a Kawai studio upright for $1,995.

My experience is that most any asking price in a private sale can be negotiated down by 10% to 25% - especially if the prospective buyer has a good piano tech inspect the piano and produce the long list of "needs" (like regulation, etc.) the piano has. Clearly, the M1A right in town for $900 is many times the piano of the typical Cable-Nelson. The couple pianos with the asking price of $1400 might be negotiated down pretty close to the $1K arbitrary goal we have identified.

Actually, I'm a bit surprised there is the selection of nice used pianos that I found. One can look on Offerup and Facebook Marketplace also - usually many pianos there. And of course, in the upcoming weeks and months, other pianos will make their way to market. So it would sure seem that, yeah, even in Palmer, Alaska!

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505

Original Message:
Sent: 08-06-2019 22:06
From: Susan Kline
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Are you sure a 20-something year old Yamaha or Kawai upright in great shape can be found for $1,000 or so -- in Palmer, Alaska?

Unknown what their piano market is like, of course.

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon

Original Message:
Sent: 08-06-2019 16:57
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Andrea wrote:  "Good point Terry! Anything I do to this Cable Nelson spinet is probably not going to make it sound any worse or less "like a piano!""

I'm glad you don't seem to have taken my comments as too smart alecky. I really don't want to be looking down my nose at anyone's piano - and I don't care for folks that do, but at the same time I do find myself frustrated with people that need a good piano and seem to settle for far less. Even a 20-something year-old Yamha or Kawai console can be found in great shape for under $1K - and generally speaking such a piano would be sooooooo much nicer than the most Cable Nelson spinets that I have run across. I suspect it is often the case that folks just don't know what is available at very reasonable costs.

That being said, what might be a good first step would be to simply drop a couple thick blankets down the back from the lid and push the piano up against the wall - that'll tell you whether baffles or some-such would meet your needs. As others pointed out, voicing will help also. On pianos like the one here, I'd hit the hammers with steam voicing - very effective, very fast, and very controllable. I use the Roger Jolly method with damp rags and a hot hammer iron - works like a charm.

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505

Original Message:
Sent: 08-06-2019 13:53
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Good point Terry! Anything I do to this Cable Nelson spinet is probably not going to make it sound any worse or less "like a piano!" With that said, the majority of pianos I've worked on are less-than-ideal spinets and consoles because that's what people have and I don't want to make them feel bad for what they own and can afford. This particular customer is a younger guy who I'm assuming is just getting his start in teaching. If I can help him out now, perhaps he'll eventually upgrade to a nicer piano and hire me to work on that one as well!

------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697

Original Message:
Sent: 08-01-2019 06:10
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Jeffrey G wrote:  "Quieter, but still sounds like a piano."

Which leave one to ask: Does a Cable Nelson spinet sound like a piano? Or at least a piano one would want to listen to? And play? And teach on?

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 14:32
From: Jeffrey Gegner
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

you could make a "manual" muffler rail.  Basically a simple 3/4" wood stick with a piece of thin cloth running the length.  Set it up with some type of hanger so the teacher can drop it in between the hammers and the strings. Felt might be more dampening than desired, thin cotton might be just about right.  Quieter, but still sounds like a piano.

------------------------------
Jeffrey Gegner
Tipton IN
765-860-5900

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 13:56
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

I got an email last night from a new piano teacher in town who asked if I'd be able to make his teaching piano (a Cable Nelson spinet) quieter, either through installing a muffler rail or adjusting the action in some way. Of course, I could reduce the blow distance, but that would then require other adjustments and I don't know if that would actually make enough of a difference for him. I've never installed a muffler rail and I don't even know if it's possible on a spinet. It doesn't seem like there would be enough room for one in there. Any ideas? Suggestions?


------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

As with so many things, the shipping to Alaska is often more than the product itself is worth. I'm more than a bit jealous of that thrift store find!

------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-09-2019 22:40
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Last week I went with a new member to look at pianos in a large thrift shop.
They had about 20 pianos, most of which belonged in the dump, but to my surprise there were three late 20th century studio consoles in excellent condition, and they were asking $65 each! The store managers had no ability to evaluate pianos. If I'd had a truck and a barn I might have hauled them home. Probably costs too much to ship them to Alaska!

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413

Original Message:
Sent: 08-09-2019 22:25
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Terry - thanks for doing the research! I've actually seen most of the pianos you mention on craigslist and Facebook Marketplace too. There are a few nice ones out there, even in our relatively small market. In fact, I'd buy one of them myself if I had an extra $1000 to spend, which I don't. And I think that's probably true of this piano teacher and others as well. For a young person just starting a new business $1000 isn't chump change! One day though...

------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697

Original Message:
Sent: 08-07-2019 13:22
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Susan K. wrote: "Are you sure a 20-something year old Yamaha or Kawai upright in great shape can be found for $1,000 or so -- in Palmer, Alaska?"

Well, good question. Let's look. Anchorage (20 miles away) has a Yamaha P22 for and asking price of $1900, a Yamaha P2 for $1400, a Yamaha console for $2,200, another P22 for $2K, a U1 for $3,250, a Yamaha M450 console for $1400, another Yamaha P2 for $2K, a clean-looking Yamaha M1A console IN PALMER for $900, and last but not least, what appears to be a Kawai studio upright for $1,995.

My experience is that most any asking price in a private sale can be negotiated down by 10% to 25% - especially if the prospective buyer has a good piano tech inspect the piano and produce the long list of "needs" (like regulation, etc.) the piano has. Clearly, the M1A right in town for $900 is many times the piano of the typical Cable-Nelson. The couple pianos with the asking price of $1400 might be negotiated down pretty close to the $1K arbitrary goal we have identified.

Actually, I'm a bit surprised there is the selection of nice used pianos that I found. One can look on Offerup and Facebook Marketplace also - usually many pianos there. And of course, in the upcoming weeks and months, other pianos will make their way to market. So it would sure seem that, yeah, even in Palmer, Alaska!

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505

Original Message:
Sent: 08-06-2019 22:06
From: Susan Kline
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Are you sure a 20-something year old Yamaha or Kawai upright in great shape can be found for $1,000 or so -- in Palmer, Alaska?

Unknown what their piano market is like, of course.

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon

Original Message:
Sent: 08-06-2019 16:57
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Andrea wrote:  "Good point Terry! Anything I do to this Cable Nelson spinet is probably not going to make it sound any worse or less "like a piano!""

I'm glad you don't seem to have taken my comments as too smart alecky. I really don't want to be looking down my nose at anyone's piano - and I don't care for folks that do, but at the same time I do find myself frustrated with people that need a good piano and seem to settle for far less. Even a 20-something year-old Yamha or Kawai console can be found in great shape for under $1K - and generally speaking such a piano would be sooooooo much nicer than the most Cable Nelson spinets that I have run across. I suspect it is often the case that folks just don't know what is available at very reasonable costs.

That being said, what might be a good first step would be to simply drop a couple thick blankets down the back from the lid and push the piano up against the wall - that'll tell you whether baffles or some-such would meet your needs. As others pointed out, voicing will help also. On pianos like the one here, I'd hit the hammers with steam voicing - very effective, very fast, and very controllable. I use the Roger Jolly method with damp rags and a hot hammer iron - works like a charm.

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505

Original Message:
Sent: 08-06-2019 13:53
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Good point Terry! Anything I do to this Cable Nelson spinet is probably not going to make it sound any worse or less "like a piano!" With that said, the majority of pianos I've worked on are less-than-ideal spinets and consoles because that's what people have and I don't want to make them feel bad for what they own and can afford. This particular customer is a younger guy who I'm assuming is just getting his start in teaching. If I can help him out now, perhaps he'll eventually upgrade to a nicer piano and hire me to work on that one as well!

------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697

Original Message:
Sent: 08-01-2019 06:10
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Jeffrey G wrote:  "Quieter, but still sounds like a piano."

Which leave one to ask: Does a Cable Nelson spinet sound like a piano? Or at least a piano one would want to listen to? And play? And teach on?

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 14:32
From: Jeffrey Gegner
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

you could make a "manual" muffler rail.  Basically a simple 3/4" wood stick with a piece of thin cloth running the length.  Set it up with some type of hanger so the teacher can drop it in between the hammers and the strings. Felt might be more dampening than desired, thin cotton might be just about right.  Quieter, but still sounds like a piano.

------------------------------
Jeffrey Gegner
Tipton IN
765-860-5900

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 13:56
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

I got an email last night from a new piano teacher in town who asked if I'd be able to make his teaching piano (a Cable Nelson spinet) quieter, either through installing a muffler rail or adjusting the action in some way. Of course, I could reduce the blow distance, but that would then require other adjustments and I don't know if that would actually make enough of a difference for him. I've never installed a muffler rail and I don't even know if it's possible on a spinet. It doesn't seem like there would be enough room for one in there. Any ideas? Suggestions?


------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

Hi Andrea, I've done as Jeffrey suggested using a stick of 3/4 quarter round.  I fashioned a "cradle" for it using PVC-E glue and shorter pieces glued to the inside side panels of the piano..  Then I used more short pieces to adjust the rest point at the action support posts.  Felt gets glued to the areas between the action support posts.  It took me about an hour and a half including the trip to the lumber yard and the fabric store (small town).  The cradles allow for the removal of the assembly should someone want the full sound restored.

Lar


------------------------------
Larry Fisher
Owner, Chief Grunt, Head Hosehead
Vancouver WA
503-310-6965
Working the gravy zone for the rest of my days.
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 13:56
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

I got an email last night from a new piano teacher in town who asked if I'd be able to make his teaching piano (a Cable Nelson spinet) quieter, either through installing a muffler rail or adjusting the action in some way. Of course, I could reduce the blow distance, but that would then require other adjustments and I don't know if that would actually make enough of a difference for him. I've never installed a muffler rail and I don't even know if it's possible on a spinet. It doesn't seem like there would be enough room for one in there. Any ideas? Suggestions?


------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

1) Visit the teacher and drape a handkerchief over the pinblock and just below the strike line, i.e. like a felt muffler, but thinner. This is called a "moderator."
2) See if the teacher likes this sound.
3) Test to see if the piano responds to angel shot voicing and brushing the hammers with a small wire brush. If so, that's what you do, without pulling the action.
4) If the piano needs the moderator, cut strips of muslin to make a full moderator. Pinking shears will prevent fraying threads.
5) You can attach the cloth strips to the pinblock with duct tape. If the teacher wants loud, he lifts the lid and folds up the moderator.
6) Or get fancy and make a rail.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 13:56
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

I got an email last night from a new piano teacher in town who asked if I'd be able to make his teaching piano (a Cable Nelson spinet) quieter, either through installing a muffler rail or adjusting the action in some way. Of course, I could reduce the blow distance, but that would then require other adjustments and I don't know if that would actually make enough of a difference for him. I've never installed a muffler rail and I don't even know if it's possible on a spinet. It doesn't seem like there would be enough room for one in there. Any ideas? Suggestions?


------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

Thanks everyone for the quick replies and ideas! I hadn't thought about voicing as a potential solution, and the "manual" muffler or moderator seems like a great idea. I've suggested to the piano teacher that he schedule a tuning appointment for a couple weeks after he gets moved in, and that we can try out some of these ideas for softening the piano's sound at that time.

------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 13:56
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

I got an email last night from a new piano teacher in town who asked if I'd be able to make his teaching piano (a Cable Nelson spinet) quieter, either through installing a muffler rail or adjusting the action in some way. Of course, I could reduce the blow distance, but that would then require other adjustments and I don't know if that would actually make enough of a difference for him. I've never installed a muffler rail and I don't even know if it's possible on a spinet. It doesn't seem like there would be enough room for one in there. Any ideas? Suggestions?


------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

Sometimes putting the piano on a thick rug, or putting some foam rubber between the backposts, or a drape behind the piano also helps.

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 16:05
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Thanks everyone for the quick replies and ideas! I hadn't thought about voicing as a potential solution, and the "manual" muffler or moderator seems like a great idea. I've suggested to the piano teacher that he schedule a tuning appointment for a couple weeks after he gets moved in, and that we can try out some of these ideas for softening the piano's sound at that time.

------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 13:56
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

I got an email last night from a new piano teacher in town who asked if I'd be able to make his teaching piano (a Cable Nelson spinet) quieter, either through installing a muffler rail or adjusting the action in some way. Of course, I could reduce the blow distance, but that would then require other adjustments and I don't know if that would actually make enough of a difference for him. I've never installed a muffler rail and I don't even know if it's possible on a spinet. It doesn't seem like there would be enough room for one in there. Any ideas? Suggestions?


------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

Hello Andrea,

I second Susan's suggestion of trying voicing first. While it is possible to build a muffler rail into the piano, will the piano be large enough for the task? I don't know, as it's a spinet. It should be, but ya never know... at least not without inspecting the piano in person first. 

Depending on how deep the groves are, you may want to recommend hammer shaping anyway. Not only does it take care of the brightness, but it will also restore the variety of tonal colors that once existed. (Yes, even in a spinet.) This often makes the pianist VERY happy, especially if they're the type that actually listens to their music.

Best of luck,

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(805) 315-8050
www.professional-piano-services.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 16:05
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Thanks everyone for the quick replies and ideas! I hadn't thought about voicing as a potential solution, and the "manual" muffler or moderator seems like a great idea. I've suggested to the piano teacher that he schedule a tuning appointment for a couple weeks after he gets moved in, and that we can try out some of these ideas for softening the piano's sound at that time.

------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 13:56
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

I got an email last night from a new piano teacher in town who asked if I'd be able to make his teaching piano (a Cable Nelson spinet) quieter, either through installing a muffler rail or adjusting the action in some way. Of course, I could reduce the blow distance, but that would then require other adjustments and I don't know if that would actually make enough of a difference for him. I've never installed a muffler rail and I don't even know if it's possible on a spinet. It doesn't seem like there would be enough room for one in there. Any ideas? Suggestions?


------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

All good suggestions. There is also Schaff part # 1843 ​, Quiet Keys Piano Mute. Installs easily and can be engaged or disengaged with a lever mounted under the keybed.

------------------------------
Gerry Johnston
Haverhill, MA
gj@gjpianotuner.com
www.gjpianotuner.com
(978) 372-2250
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 17:06
From: Benjamin Sanchez
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Hello Andrea,

I second Susan's suggestion of trying voicing first. While it is possible to build a muffler rail into the piano, will the piano be large enough for the task? I don't know, as it's a spinet. It should be, but ya never know... at least not without inspecting the piano in person first.

Depending on how deep the groves are, you may want to recommend hammer shaping anyway. Not only does it take care of the brightness, but it will also restore the variety of tonal colors that once existed. (Yes, even in a spinet.) This often makes the pianist VERY happy, especially if they're the type that actually listens to their music.

Best of luck,

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(805) 315-8050
www.professional-piano-services.com

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 16:05
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Thanks everyone for the quick replies and ideas! I hadn't thought about voicing as a potential solution, and the "manual" muffler or moderator seems like a great idea. I've suggested to the piano teacher that he schedule a tuning appointment for a couple weeks after he gets moved in, and that we can try out some of these ideas for softening the piano's sound at that time.

------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 13:56
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

I got an email last night from a new piano teacher in town who asked if I'd be able to make his teaching piano (a Cable Nelson spinet) quieter, either through installing a muffler rail or adjusting the action in some way. Of course, I could reduce the blow distance, but that would then require other adjustments and I don't know if that would actually make enough of a difference for him. I've never installed a muffler rail and I don't even know if it's possible on a spinet. It doesn't seem like there would be enough room for one in there. Any ideas? Suggestions?


------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

Thanks again for the additional suggestions. I'll have a good handful of options to discuss and try out when I do see the piano. I did get some more info from the teacher. He's moving his piano into a teaching studio space at a guitar shop in town and doesn't want to disturb the neighbors (other businesses), so he does actually want it quieter, not just less bright. I think I'll actually spend some time in the next couple weeks experimenting with making a manual muffler of some sort for my own home piano, so I have a better idea of how that will work before trying it out on a client's piano!

------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 16:05
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Thanks everyone for the quick replies and ideas! I hadn't thought about voicing as a potential solution, and the "manual" muffler or moderator seems like a great idea. I've suggested to the piano teacher that he schedule a tuning appointment for a couple weeks after he gets moved in, and that we can try out some of these ideas for softening the piano's sound at that time.

------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 13:56
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

I got an email last night from a new piano teacher in town who asked if I'd be able to make his teaching piano (a Cable Nelson spinet) quieter, either through installing a muffler rail or adjusting the action in some way. Of course, I could reduce the blow distance, but that would then require other adjustments and I don't know if that would actually make enough of a difference for him. I've never installed a muffler rail and I don't even know if it's possible on a spinet. It doesn't seem like there would be enough room for one in there. Any ideas? Suggestions?


------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

Original Message------

Thanks again for the additional suggestions. I'll have a good handful of options to discuss and try out when I do see the piano. I did get some more info from the teacher. He's moving his piano into a teaching studio space at a guitar shop in town and doesn't want to disturb the neighbors (other businesses), so he does actually want it quieter, not just less bright. I think I'll actually spend some time in the next couple weeks experimenting with making a manual muffler of some sort for my own home piano, so I have a better idea of how that will work before trying it out on a client's piano!

------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

Original Message------

Andrea:

I don't remember if this was mentioned, but acoustic baffles might also be a consideration. Years ago when Yamaha first came out with their Disklavier, businesses would buy them as nice background music in a store or shop. They liked the piano, but wanted it to be more quiet. If they set the player at the softest setting, it was still too loud. Yamaha suggested the baffles. They were placed underneath the soundboard in grands and between the posts in uprights. Might be a possibility, assuming the baffle material wouldn't be too expensive. I've never had occasion to use baffles, but maybe others on this list have. I'd be interested to have more details myself.

Richard West

In extreme cases it is also possible to install strips of felt or action cloth (temperament strips) to reduce the volume by reducing the number of sounding strings.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-02-2019 18:36
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Thanks again for the additional suggestions. I'll have a good handful of options to discuss and try out when I do see the piano. I did get some more info from the teacher. He's moving his piano into a teaching studio space at a guitar shop in town and doesn't want to disturb the neighbors (other businesses), so he does actually want it quieter, not just less bright. I think I'll actually spend some time in the next couple weeks experimenting with making a manual muffler of some sort for my own home piano, so I have a better idea of how that will work before trying it out on a client's piano!

------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 16:05
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Thanks everyone for the quick replies and ideas! I hadn't thought about voicing as a potential solution, and the "manual" muffler or moderator seems like a great idea. I've suggested to the piano teacher that he schedule a tuning appointment for a couple weeks after he gets moved in, and that we can try out some of these ideas for softening the piano's sound at that time.

------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 13:56
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

I got an email last night from a new piano teacher in town who asked if I'd be able to make his teaching piano (a Cable Nelson spinet) quieter, either through installing a muffler rail or adjusting the action in some way. Of course, I could reduce the blow distance, but that would then require other adjustments and I don't know if that would actually make enough of a difference for him. I've never installed a muffler rail and I don't even know if it's possible on a spinet. It doesn't seem like there would be enough room for one in there. Any ideas? Suggestions?


------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

I have used Auralex Studiofoam on several pianos with good results, one a Yamaha baby grand with disclavier player. I got them from Sam Ash music. I cut them to fit under the grand with an electric carving knife. I also laid some pieces over the plate in the speaking area, with lid down. This now enables the piano to play quietly in the background in a corporate lunchroom.

Sent from my iPad


Original Message------

Thanks again for the additional suggestions. I'll have a good handful of options to discuss and try out when I do see the piano. I did get some more info from the teacher. He's moving his piano into a teaching studio space at a guitar shop in town and doesn't want to disturb the neighbors (other businesses), so he does actually want it quieter, not just less bright. I think I'll actually spend some time in the next couple weeks experimenting with making a manual muffler of some sort for my own home piano, so I have a better idea of how that will work before trying it out on a client's piano!

------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

Andrea, I just read your original post so disregard my post for grands. I used the Auralex Wedge foam (large wedge) in the back of a spinet (same material though), Wedge side in against the soundboard for attenuation. Pricy but does the job.

Sent from my iPad


Original Message------

Thanks again for the additional suggestions. I'll have a good handful of options to discuss and try out when I do see the piano. I did get some more info from the teacher. He's moving his piano into a teaching studio space at a guitar shop in town and doesn't want to disturb the neighbors (other businesses), so he does actually want it quieter, not just less bright. I think I'll actually spend some time in the next couple weeks experimenting with making a manual muffler of some sort for my own home piano, so I have a better idea of how that will work before trying it out on a client's piano!

------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

It is possible to install a muffler rail in a spinet because I have done it in a Baldwin Acrosonic owned by a client in a condo worried about his neighbors. It does not attach to the pedal but uses a choke/lawn mower type cable that you pull out or push in to activate/deactivate. I believe it came from Schaff. If the piano really needs lots of work perhaps a better piano especially for a teacher is the way to go. I know of no teachers using spinets to teach on so maybe its worth knowing his qualifications to teach piano. Once you see the piano you will have a better idea about a course of action-my guess at a distance it is high mileage PSO

------------------------------
James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 13:56
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

I got an email last night from a new piano teacher in town who asked if I'd be able to make his teaching piano (a Cable Nelson spinet) quieter, either through installing a muffler rail or adjusting the action in some way. Of course, I could reduce the blow distance, but that would then require other adjustments and I don't know if that would actually make enough of a difference for him. I've never installed a muffler rail and I don't even know if it's possible on a spinet. It doesn't seem like there would be enough room for one in there. Any ideas? Suggestions?


------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

Hi Andrea,

To second what James said it is possible and not difficult to install a practice mute in a spinet.  I have a installed the Quiet Keys in a number of spinets. 

Also mentioned was using a strip mute to change three note unisons into two note unisons.  This is an effective method and it  brings a 5-10 percent reduction in sound.  

Acoustic foam is not expensive and easy to work with.  It cuts easily with an electric knife.  I have found about a 10% reduction in sound with acoustic foam placed between the beams on the back side of the piano.    If you install it and then cover it you get an even greater sound reduction, about 20%.  You can cover it with a moving blanket, a piece of wood, or for the greatest effect a solid acoustic panel.

Good luck,

David Weiss

------------------------------
David Weiss
Charlottesville VA
434-823-9733
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 13:56
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

I got an email last night from a new piano teacher in town who asked if I'd be able to make his teaching piano (a Cable Nelson spinet) quieter, either through installing a muffler rail or adjusting the action in some way. Of course, I could reduce the blow distance, but that would then require other adjustments and I don't know if that would actually make enough of a difference for him. I've never installed a muffler rail and I don't even know if it's possible on a spinet. It doesn't seem like there would be enough room for one in there. Any ideas? Suggestions?


------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

Hmmm... I'm liking the idea of acoustic foam as a relatively cheap and easy solution to at least try. Any suggestions about specific types or brands of foam to look for?

A side not about the quality of the piano: As I wrote above, in response to Terrance, I know this is not a great piano, but I don't want to shame the customer about it. He's a young guy, probably just getting his start in teaching and I'm honestly just glad he has an acoustic piano! There's a whole music school here in town that only uses digital pianos because they're cheap and easy (they're not a great school, but the only "school" in town and they get lots of students).

------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-04-2019 05:01
From: David Weiss
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Hi Andrea,

To second what James said it is possible and not difficult to install a practice mute in a spinet.  I have a installed the Quiet Keys in a number of spinets.

Also mentioned was using a strip mute to change three note unisons into two note unisons.  This is an effective method and it  brings a 5-10 percent reduction in sound.

Acoustic foam is not expensive and easy to work with.  It cuts easily with an electric knife.  I have found about a 10% reduction in sound with acoustic foam placed between the beams on the back side of the piano.    If you install it and then cover it you get an even greater sound reduction, about 20%.  You can cover it with a moving blanket, a piece of wood, or for the greatest effect a solid acoustic panel.

Good luck,

David Weiss

------------------------------
David Weiss
Charlottesville VA
434-823-9733

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 13:56
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

I got an email last night from a new piano teacher in town who asked if I'd be able to make his teaching piano (a Cable Nelson spinet) quieter, either through installing a muffler rail or adjusting the action in some way. Of course, I could reduce the blow distance, but that would then require other adjustments and I don't know if that would actually make enough of a difference for him. I've never installed a muffler rail and I don't even know if it's possible on a spinet. It doesn't seem like there would be enough room for one in there. Any ideas? Suggestions?


------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

It's a lot more piano than no piano, and at least it doesn't get plugged in.

You might try foam between the back posts, and some basic voicing as well.

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-06-2019 14:03
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Hmmm... I'm liking the idea of acoustic foam as a relatively cheap and easy solution to at least try. Any suggestions about specific types or brands of foam to look for?

A side not about the quality of the piano: As I wrote above, in response to Terrance, I know this is not a great piano, but I don't want to shame the customer about it. He's a young guy, probably just getting his start in teaching and I'm honestly just glad he has an acoustic piano! There's a whole music school here in town that only uses digital pianos because they're cheap and easy (they're not a great school, but the only "school" in town and they get lots of students).

------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697

Original Message:
Sent: 08-04-2019 05:01
From: David Weiss
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Hi Andrea,

To second what James said it is possible and not difficult to install a practice mute in a spinet.  I have a installed the Quiet Keys in a number of spinets.

Also mentioned was using a strip mute to change three note unisons into two note unisons.  This is an effective method and it  brings a 5-10 percent reduction in sound.

Acoustic foam is not expensive and easy to work with.  It cuts easily with an electric knife.  I have found about a 10% reduction in sound with acoustic foam placed between the beams on the back side of the piano.    If you install it and then cover it you get an even greater sound reduction, about 20%.  You can cover it with a moving blanket, a piece of wood, or for the greatest effect a solid acoustic panel.

Good luck,

David Weiss

------------------------------
David Weiss
Charlottesville VA
434-823-9733

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 13:56
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

I got an email last night from a new piano teacher in town who asked if I'd be able to make his teaching piano (a Cable Nelson spinet) quieter, either through installing a muffler rail or adjusting the action in some way. Of course, I could reduce the blow distance, but that would then require other adjustments and I don't know if that would actually make enough of a difference for him. I've never installed a muffler rail and I don't even know if it's possible on a spinet. It doesn't seem like there would be enough room for one in there. Any ideas? Suggestions?


------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------

Simply tacking an old blanket to the back of my U1 has helped quiet it considerably.

------------------------------
Scott Cole, RPT
rvpianotuner.com
Talent, OR
(541-601-9033
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-06-2019 19:11
From: Susan Kline
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

It's a lot more piano than no piano, and at least it doesn't get plugged in.

You might try foam between the back posts, and some basic voicing as well.

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon

Original Message:
Sent: 08-06-2019 14:03
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Hmmm... I'm liking the idea of acoustic foam as a relatively cheap and easy solution to at least try. Any suggestions about specific types or brands of foam to look for?

A side not about the quality of the piano: As I wrote above, in response to Terrance, I know this is not a great piano, but I don't want to shame the customer about it. He's a young guy, probably just getting his start in teaching and I'm honestly just glad he has an acoustic piano! There's a whole music school here in town that only uses digital pianos because they're cheap and easy (they're not a great school, but the only "school" in town and they get lots of students).

------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697

Original Message:
Sent: 08-04-2019 05:01
From: David Weiss
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

Hi Andrea,

To second what James said it is possible and not difficult to install a practice mute in a spinet.  I have a installed the Quiet Keys in a number of spinets.

Also mentioned was using a strip mute to change three note unisons into two note unisons.  This is an effective method and it  brings a 5-10 percent reduction in sound.

Acoustic foam is not expensive and easy to work with.  It cuts easily with an electric knife.  I have found about a 10% reduction in sound with acoustic foam placed between the beams on the back side of the piano.    If you install it and then cover it you get an even greater sound reduction, about 20%.  You can cover it with a moving blanket, a piece of wood, or for the greatest effect a solid acoustic panel.

Good luck,

David Weiss

------------------------------
David Weiss
Charlottesville VA
434-823-9733

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2019 13:56
From: Andrea Hackbarth
Subject: Spinet Muffler Rail?

I got an email last night from a new piano teacher in town who asked if I'd be able to make his teaching piano (a Cable Nelson spinet) quieter, either through installing a muffler rail or adjusting the action in some way. Of course, I could reduce the blow distance, but that would then require other adjustments and I don't know if that would actually make enough of a difference for him. I've never installed a muffler rail and I don't even know if it's possible on a spinet. It doesn't seem like there would be enough room for one in there. Any ideas? Suggestions?


------------------------------
Andrea Hackbarth
Palmer AK
907-435-7697
------------------------------