Pianotech

Hi Susan and Ed,

Your points about technique are well taken, but I would like to hear more about repeated application of CA glue in the case that initial application(s) fail to provide sufficient torque.  "Pianos Inside Out" suggests that because CA glue will seal the wood, we might have only one opportunity to effectively treat the pin block.  Your results and those of others appear to suggest otherwise.  Any thoughts?

Regards,
Ben

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Benjamin Rocke
Piano Technician
Manchester CT
860-533-0311
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Original Message:
Sent: 01-25-2014 23:25
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: CA Glue Pinblock Treatment Procedure and Questions


I do like Susan, marking the CA'd pins with chalk or sharpie as I go, then go back to check to see if they hold or need a few more drops. For this I use small tubes with fine nosed caps from Home Depot. Unlike years ago, these retail hardware glues are fresh and work well.
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Ed Sutton
Editor
Piano Technicians Journal
ed440@me.com
704-536-7926

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I've been thinking about your question regarding CA application. My paraphrase of what I took to be your position is...why not deal with the issue in as understated fashion as possible...so much so that in some cases one might not even charge for the treatment. Your arguments in terms of technique are strong...but something, for me, just didn't compute, and I had to think about it.

There is a crucial factor I take into consideration, which you did not mention. That factor has not so much to do with the piano, than it does with the owners. A piano needing CA is, in many if not most cases, a neglected piano, or a piano at or well past the end of its useful life. If I think about what a neglected piano says about the customer whom one is trying to please, I come up with a couple of possible scenarios...none of them include a customer who is educated about  the upkeep of their instrument. As well, very few of the client scenarios I can think, of present a client who is committed to the upkeep of their instrument. That is, few of them include a customer who has chosen to prioritze and  therefore afford the necessary up-keep of their instrument. Put even more bluntly, these scenarios reflect a customer who has chosen not to pay me or another professional for the regular service their piano requires.

In these situations, providing this service, especially providing it for free sends all the wrong messages, at least in my opinion. It does not educate the client about the needs of their piano, it does not give them a monetary incentive to pay more attention, and it does not at the very least, help them break free of inertia and haul the thing to the dump. Providing the service free does provide the client with an incentive to continue their lack of attention, and does ironically reward the client for not hiring me or another professional to perform routine maintenance. It also does declare that the dearly acquired professional  knowledge and equipment necessary to take care of these instruments, in fact, has no value.

 I know of very few professions, where the level of expertise required to perform basic services  is so high, and the professionals are so determined to devalue the skills and knowledge they spent years to acquire.

 So, as an example, in the recent whole piano job I personally did, the clients were first time clients who had just bought a potentially nice, tired, Steinert grand on Craigslist...for too much money. No professional looked at the piano beofre they paid too much for it. Nice clients, enjoyable to chat with about lots of stuff, well into the middle class. They want to make this piano work for the wife who is learning to play, and the young kids who they hope will learn to play. My decision to treat the whole piano and charge very well for it indeed, came with a good natured but serious education session about what makes a piano fun to play, and keeps it fun. In short, this Steinert will need a full rebuild in the near future, and we talked about this. With these clients, I am in the process of educating, and, yes, training them as to what the piano will require in the way of maintenance, and rebuilding, if they want it to be fun to play, rather than a nasty sounding turn-off. In addition they were involved in the actual CA process in taping off the room temporarily from the rest of the house. The goal...engaging them in learning to take care of their instrument as it requires .

Could I have treated a couple of pins and left...yes. However, there would have been no education, and no future for a serious client relationship...I would have implicitly agreed in a powerful but unspoken way,  that the piano itself had no potential  and that the client relationship wasn't really worth the effort to develop.

So the disconnect I had with your technical advice was not technical. So much about pianos is not entirely about the machine, and more about the relationship and emotions that drive people to own these sometime recalcitrant machines.

 Jim Ialeggio        

 
I've been thinking about your question regarding CA application. My paraphrase of what I took to be your position is...why not deal with the issue in as understated fashion as possible...so much so that in some cases one might not even charge for the treatment. Your arguments in terms of technique are strong...but something, for me, just didn't compute, and I had to think about it.

There is a crucial factor I take into consideration, which you did not mention. That factor has not so much to do with the piano, than it does with the owners. A piano needing CA is, in many if not most cases, a neglected piano, or a piano at or well past the end of its useful life. If I think about what a neglected piano says about the customer whom one is trying to please, I come up with a couple of possible scenarios...none of them include a customer who is educated about  the upkeep of their instrument. As well, very few of the client scenarios I can think, of present a client who is committed to the upkeep of their instrument. That is, few of them include a customer who has chosen to prioritze and  therefore afford the necessary up-keep of their instrument. Put even more bluntly, these scenarios reflect a customer who has chosen not to pay me or another professional for the regular service their piano requires.

In these situations, providing this service, especially providing it for free sends all the wrong messages, at least in my opinion. It does not educate the client about the needs of their piano, it does not give them a monetary incentive to pay more attention, and it does not at the very least, help them break free of inertia and haul the thing to the dump. Providing the service free does provide the client with an incentive to continue their lack of attention, and does ironically reward the client for not hiring me or another professional to perform routine maintenance. It also does declare that the dearly acquired professional  knowledge and equipment necessary to take care of these instruments, in fact, has no value.

 I know of very few professions, where the level of expertise required to perform basic services  is so high, and the professionals are so determined to devalue the skills and knowledge they spent years to acquire.

 So, as an example, in the recent whole piano job I personally did, the clients were first time clients who had just bought a potentially nice, tired, Steinert grand on Craigslist...for too much money. No professional looked at the piano beofre they paid too much for it. Nice clients, enjoyable to chat with about lots of stuff, well into the middle class. They want to make this piano work for the wife who is learning to play, and the young kids who they hope will learn to play. My decision to treat the whole piano and charge very well for it indeed, came with a good natured but serious education session about what makes a piano fun to play, and keeps it fun. In short, this Steinert will need a full rebuild in the near future, and we talked about this. With these clients, I am in the process of educating, and, yes, training them as to what the piano will require in the way of maintenance, and rebuilding, if they want it to be fun to play, rather than a nasty sounding turn-off. In addition they were involved in the actual CA process in taping off the room temporarily from the rest of the house. The goal...engaging them in learning to take care of their instrument as it requires .

Could I have treated a couple of pins and left...yes. However, there would have been no education, and no future for a serious client relationship...I would have implicitly agreed in a powerful but unspoken way,  that the piano itself had no potential  and that the client relationship wasn't really worth the effort to develop.

So the disconnect I had with your technical advice was not technical. So much about pianos is not entirely about the machine, and more about the relationship and emotions that drive people to own these sometime recalcitrant machines.

 Jim Ialeggio        

 
I've been thinking about your question regarding CA application. My paraphrase of what I took to be your position is...why not deal with the issue in as understated fashion as possible...so much so that in some cases one might not even charge for the treatment. Your arguments in terms of technique are strong...but something, for me, just didn't compute, and I had to think about it.

There is a crucial factor I take into consideration, which you did not mention. That factor has not so much to do with the piano, than it does with the owners. A piano needing CA is, in many if not most cases, a neglected piano, or a piano at or well past the end of its useful life. If I think about what a neglected piano says about the customer whom one is trying to please, I come up with a couple of possible scenarios...none of them include a customer who is educated about  the upkeep of their instrument. As well, very few of the client scenarios I can think, of present a client who is committed to the upkeep of their instrument. That is, few of them include a customer who has chosen to prioritze and  therefore afford the necessary up-keep of their instrument. Put even more bluntly, these scenarios reflect a customer who has chosen not to pay me or another professional for the regular service their piano requires.

In these situations, providing this service, especially providing it for free sends all the wrong messages, at least in my opinion. It does not educate the client about the needs of their piano, it does not give them a monetary incentive to pay more attention, and it does not at the very least, help them break free of inertia and haul the thing to the dump. Providing the service free does provide the client with an incentive to continue their lack of attention, and does ironically reward the client for not hiring me or another professional to perform routine maintenance. It also does declare that the dearly acquired professional  knowledge and equipment necessary to take care of these instruments, in fact, has no value.

 I know of very few professions, where the level of expertise required to perform basic services  is so high, and the professionals are so determined to devalue the skills and knowledge they spent years to acquire.

 So, as an example, in the recent whole piano job I personally did, the clients were first time clients who had just bought a potentially nice, tired, Steinert grand on Craigslist...for too much money. No professional looked at the piano beofre they paid too much for it. Nice clients, enjoyable to chat with about lots of stuff, well into the middle class. They want to make this piano work for the wife who is learning to play, and the young kids who they hope will learn to play. My decision to treat the whole piano and charge very well for it indeed, came with a good natured but serious education session about what makes a piano fun to play, and keeps it fun. In short, this Steinert will need a full rebuild in the near future, and we talked about this. With these clients, I am in the process of educating, and, yes, training them as to what the piano will require in the way of maintenance, and rebuilding, if they want it to be fun to play, rather than a nasty sounding turn-off. In addition they were involved in the actual CA process in taping off the room temporarily from the rest of the house. The goal...engaging them in learning to take care of their instrument as it requires .

Could I have treated a couple of pins and left...yes. However, there would have been no education, and no future for a serious client relationship...I would have implicitly agreed in a powerful but unspoken way,  that the piano itself had no potential  and that the client relationship wasn't really worth the effort to develop.

So the disconnect I had with your technical advice was not technical. So much about pianos is not entirely about the machine, and more about the relationship and emotions that drive people to own these sometime recalcitrant machines.

 Jim Ialeggio