Pianotech

List(s),

Has anyone ever seen the finish on a fallboard do this? We have other Falcones, but none of them have had this problem. This particular piano has gotten some direct sun on the fallboard for part of it's life.

Any thoughts about why it happens and how to remedy it (short of refinishing) would be much appreciated.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Some polyester finishes are coated with lacquer for a satin patina. I would take some thinner and see if the top coat is lacquer, see if it gets sticky in contact with the thinner. If it appears to be lacquer, I'd sand it off and respray it. It it's polyester, you could simply use thinner (acetone, lac thinner) and melt it off. Cured poly is impervious to thinners.
You may want to contact Falcone and see what they used on the finish.
My $.02. Good luck.
Paul McCloud
San Diego


List(s),

Has anyone ever seen the finish on a fallboard do this? We have other Falcones, but none of them have had this problem. This particular piano has gotten some direct sun on the fallboard for part of it's life.

Any thoughts about why it happens and how to remedy it (short of refinishing) would be much appreciated.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483



Original Message------

List(s),

Has anyone ever seen the finish on a fallboard do this? We have other Falcones, but none of them have had this problem. This particular piano has gotten some direct sun on the fallboard for part of it's life.

Any thoughts about why it happens and how to remedy it (short of refinishing) would be much appreciated.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Paul,

The Falcone of today is not the same outfit that made these pianos, so consulting with the original manufacturer is not an option in this case.

Your suggestions to test for lacquer overlay on polyester are much appreciated. Those gold stripes have flaked off in places, suggesting that your hypothesis may be correct.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-30-2019 19:40
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: Finish Gone Wild!

Some polyester finishes are coated with lacquer for a satin patina. I would take some thinner and see if the top coat is lacquer, see if it gets sticky in contact with the thinner. If it appears to be lacquer, I'd sand it off and respray it. It it's polyester, you could simply use thinner (acetone, lac thinner) and melt it off. Cured poly is impervious to thinners.
You may want to contact Falcone and see what they used on the finish.
My $.02. Good luck.
Paul McCloud
San Diego


List(s),

Has anyone ever seen the finish on a fallboard do this? We have other Falcones, but none of them have had this problem. This particular piano has gotten some direct sun on the fallboard for part of it's life.

Any thoughts about why it happens and how to remedy it (short of refinishing) would be much appreciated.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483



Original Message------

List(s),

Has anyone ever seen the finish on a fallboard do this? We have other Falcones, but none of them have had this problem. This particular piano has gotten some direct sun on the fallboard for part of it's life.

Any thoughts about why it happens and how to remedy it (short of refinishing) would be much appreciated.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Alan,

I believe Paul is correct on that. The Falcone factory (formerly) is just 'down the road from me. Toured the place once or twice when Santi was still there. 

They did some pretty "experimental" things there, and a few things that were downright bad (like using contact cement to veneer a rosewood case...not a good end result).  I would be entirely in agreement that lacquer was used on top to produce the satin finish. They knew it would last the warranty period and "who cares after that".

Bruce Clark would know for sure though as he was there then. 

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-30-2019 19:52
From: Alan Eder
Subject: Finish Gone Wild!

Paul,

The Falcone of today is not the same outfit that made these pianos, so consulting with the original manufacturer is not an option in this case.

Your suggestions to test for lacquer overlay on polyester are much appreciated. Those gold stripes have flaked off in places, suggesting that your hypothesis may be correct.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 05-30-2019 19:40
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: Finish Gone Wild!

Some polyester finishes are coated with lacquer for a satin patina. I would take some thinner and see if the top coat is lacquer, see if it gets sticky in contact with the thinner. If it appears to be lacquer, I'd sand it off and respray it. It it's polyester, you could simply use thinner (acetone, lac thinner) and melt it off. Cured poly is impervious to thinners.
You may want to contact Falcone and see what they used on the finish.
My $.02. Good luck.
Paul McCloud
San Diego


List(s),

Has anyone ever seen the finish on a fallboard do this? We have other Falcones, but none of them have had this problem. This particular piano has gotten some direct sun on the fallboard for part of it's life.

Any thoughts about why it happens and how to remedy it (short of refinishing) would be much appreciated.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483



Original Message------

List(s),

Has anyone ever seen the finish on a fallboard do this? We have other Falcones, but none of them have had this problem. This particular piano has gotten some direct sun on the fallboard for part of it's life.

Any thoughts about why it happens and how to remedy it (short of refinishing) would be much appreciated.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Thanks for the insights, Peter.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-30-2019 21:46
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Finish Gone Wild!

Alan,

I believe Paul is correct on that. The Falcone factory (formerly) is just 'down the road from me. Toured the place once or twice when Santi was still there.

They did some pretty "experimental" things there, and a few things that were downright bad (like using contact cement to veneer a rosewood case...not a good end result).  I would be entirely in agreement that lacquer was used on top to produce the satin finish. They knew it would last the warranty period and "who cares after that".

Bruce Clark would know for sure though as he was there then.

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 05-30-2019 19:52
From: Alan Eder
Subject: Finish Gone Wild!

Paul,

The Falcone of today is not the same outfit that made these pianos, so consulting with the original manufacturer is not an option in this case.

Your suggestions to test for lacquer overlay on polyester are much appreciated. Those gold stripes have flaked off in places, suggesting that your hypothesis may be correct.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 05-30-2019 19:40
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: Finish Gone Wild!

Some polyester finishes are coated with lacquer for a satin patina. I would take some thinner and see if the top coat is lacquer, see if it gets sticky in contact with the thinner. If it appears to be lacquer, I'd sand it off and respray it. It it's polyester, you could simply use thinner (acetone, lac thinner) and melt it off. Cured poly is impervious to thinners.
You may want to contact Falcone and see what they used on the finish.
My $.02. Good luck.
Paul McCloud
San Diego


List(s),

Has anyone ever seen the finish on a fallboard do this? We have other Falcones, but none of them have had this problem. This particular piano has gotten some direct sun on the fallboard for part of it's life.

Any thoughts about why it happens and how to remedy it (short of refinishing) would be much appreciated.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483



Original Message------

List(s),

Has anyone ever seen the finish on a fallboard do this? We have other Falcones, but none of them have had this problem. This particular piano has gotten some direct sun on the fallboard for part of it's life.

Any thoughts about why it happens and how to remedy it (short of refinishing) would be much appreciated.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

You have adhesion problem. I believe only stripping to the bare wood and build up new coat is the solution

Alexander Brusilovsky


Original Message------

List(s),

Has anyone ever seen the finish on a fallboard do this? We have other Falcones, but none of them have had this problem. This particular piano has gotten some direct sun on the fallboard for part of it's life.

Any thoughts about why it happens and how to remedy it (short of refinishing) would be much appreciated.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

the white material almost looks like fiberglass matting /cloth or mesh . perhaps the top finish would not adhere to what was under it and so someone decided to use material used on fiberglass boat repair . if thats the case you dont want to even try sanding it off and release fiberglass into the air.  probably much safer to find another fallboard and refinish it .

------------------------------
James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-30-2019 18:59
From: Alan Eder
Subject: Finish Gone Wild!

List(s),

Has anyone ever seen the finish on a fallboard do this? We have other Falcones, but none of them have had this problem. This particular piano has gotten some direct sun on the fallboard for part of it's life.

Any thoughts about why it happens and how to remedy it (short of refinishing) would be much appreciated.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Alan,

Is this the ONLY spot on the piano doing this?  If so, it could simply be that they used clear lacquer to cover the decal and with the sun exposure weakened the mechanical bond to the poly. It appears to be flaking off in the photo. 

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-31-2019 08:23
From: James Kelly
Subject: Finish Gone Wild!

the white material almost looks like fiberglass matting /cloth or mesh . perhaps the top finish would not adhere to what was under it and so someone decided to use material used on fiberglass boat repair . if thats the case you dont want to even try sanding it off and release fiberglass into the air.  probably much safer to find another fallboard and refinish it .

------------------------------
James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 05-30-2019 18:59
From: Alan Eder
Subject: Finish Gone Wild!

List(s),

Has anyone ever seen the finish on a fallboard do this? We have other Falcones, but none of them have had this problem. This particular piano has gotten some direct sun on the fallboard for part of it's life.

Any thoughts about why it happens and how to remedy it (short of refinishing) would be much appreciated.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

At least it is convenient to put it in the back seat of a car to get it to a shop/spray booth, without having to move the whole piano.

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-31-2019 09:31
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Finish Gone Wild!

Alan,

Is this the ONLY spot on the piano doing this?  If so, it could simply be that they used clear lacquer to cover the decal and with the sun exposure weakened the mechanical bond to the poly. It appears to be flaking off in the photo.

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 05-31-2019 08:23
From: James Kelly
Subject: Finish Gone Wild!

the white material almost looks like fiberglass matting /cloth or mesh . perhaps the top finish would not adhere to what was under it and so someone decided to use material used on fiberglass boat repair . if thats the case you dont want to even try sanding it off and release fiberglass into the air.  probably much safer to find another fallboard and refinish it .

------------------------------
James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 05-30-2019 18:59
From: Alan Eder
Subject: Finish Gone Wild!

List(s),

Has anyone ever seen the finish on a fallboard do this? We have other Falcones, but none of them have had this problem. This particular piano has gotten some direct sun on the fallboard for part of it's life.

Any thoughts about why it happens and how to remedy it (short of refinishing) would be much appreciated.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

NC lacquer has excellent adhesion
included to polyester. Only polyester has to be sanded to create rough surface and to remove paraffin film. In contrary precat NC has diminished adhesion and checks much easier. I have seen such damages many times when precat used. Better to remove it and apply new coat of real NC
Alexander Brusilovsky


Original Message------

At least it is convenient to put it in the back seat of a car to get it to a shop/spray booth, without having to move the whole piano.

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon
------------------------------

I would agree with Alexander. 

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-31-2019 19:50
From: Alexander Brusilovsky
Subject: Finish Gone Wild!

NC lacquer has excellent adhesion
included to polyester. Only polyester has to be sanded to create rough surface and to remove paraffin film. In contrary precat NC has diminished adhesion and checks much easier. I have seen such damages many times when precat used. Better to remove it and apply new coat of real NC
Alexander Brusilovsky


Original Message------

At least it is convenient to put it in the back seat of a car to get it to a shop/spray booth, without having to move the whole piano.

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon
------------------------------

Please pardon my ignorance, Alexander, but what does "precat" mean with regard to NC lacquer?

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-31-2019 19:50
From: Alexander Brusilovsky
Subject: Finish Gone Wild!

NC lacquer has excellent adhesion
included to polyester. Only polyester has to be sanded to create rough surface and to remove paraffin film. In contrary precat NC has diminished adhesion and checks much easier. I have seen such damages many times when precat used. Better to remove it and apply new coat of real NC
Alexander Brusilovsky


Original Message------

At least it is convenient to put it in the back seat of a car to get it to a shop/spray booth, without having to move the whole piano.

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon
------------------------------

Precatalised

Alexander Brusilovsky


Original Message------

Please pardon my ignorance, Alexander, but what does "precat" mean with regard to NC lacquer?

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Ah... Thanks!

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-01-2019 06:21
From: Alexander Brusilovsky
Subject: Finish Gone Wild!

Precatalised

Alexander Brusilovsky


Original Message------

Please pardon my ignorance, Alexander, but what does "precat" mean with regard to NC lacquer?

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Yes, we must remember to thank the Powers That Be for small favors!

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-31-2019 12:19
From: Susan Kline
Subject: Finish Gone Wild!

At least it is convenient to put it in the back seat of a car to get it to a shop/spray booth, without having to move the whole piano.

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon

Original Message:
Sent: 05-31-2019 09:31
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Finish Gone Wild!

Alan,

Is this the ONLY spot on the piano doing this?  If so, it could simply be that they used clear lacquer to cover the decal and with the sun exposure weakened the mechanical bond to the poly. It appears to be flaking off in the photo.

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 05-31-2019 08:23
From: James Kelly
Subject: Finish Gone Wild!

the white material almost looks like fiberglass matting /cloth or mesh . perhaps the top finish would not adhere to what was under it and so someone decided to use material used on fiberglass boat repair . if thats the case you dont want to even try sanding it off and release fiberglass into the air.  probably much safer to find another fallboard and refinish it .

------------------------------
James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 05-30-2019 18:59
From: Alan Eder
Subject: Finish Gone Wild!

List(s),

Has anyone ever seen the finish on a fallboard do this? We have other Falcones, but none of them have had this problem. This particular piano has gotten some direct sun on the fallboard for part of it's life.

Any thoughts about why it happens and how to remedy it (short of refinishing) would be much appreciated.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Peter,

Yes on all counts. The name is brass inlay, and it does appear that they sprayed over it with something, probably in hope of keeping the brass from tarnishing. Dropped it off at the refinisher's today. We'll see what he has to say...

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-31-2019 09:31
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Finish Gone Wild!

Alan,

Is this the ONLY spot on the piano doing this?  If so, it could simply be that they used clear lacquer to cover the decal and with the sun exposure weakened the mechanical bond to the poly. It appears to be flaking off in the photo.

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 05-31-2019 08:23
From: James Kelly
Subject: Finish Gone Wild!

the white material almost looks like fiberglass matting /cloth or mesh . perhaps the top finish would not adhere to what was under it and so someone decided to use material used on fiberglass boat repair . if thats the case you dont want to even try sanding it off and release fiberglass into the air.  probably much safer to find another fallboard and refinish it .

------------------------------
James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 05-30-2019 18:59
From: Alan Eder
Subject: Finish Gone Wild!

List(s),

Has anyone ever seen the finish on a fallboard do this? We have other Falcones, but none of them have had this problem. This particular piano has gotten some direct sun on the fallboard for part of it's life.

Any thoughts about why it happens and how to remedy it (short of refinishing) would be much appreciated.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

James,

It doesn't look like fiberglass to me.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-31-2019 08:23
From: James Kelly
Subject: Finish Gone Wild!

the white material almost looks like fiberglass matting /cloth or mesh . perhaps the top finish would not adhere to what was under it and so someone decided to use material used on fiberglass boat repair . if thats the case you dont want to even try sanding it off and release fiberglass into the air.  probably much safer to find another fallboard and refinish it .

------------------------------
James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 05-30-2019 18:59
From: Alan Eder
Subject: Finish Gone Wild!

List(s),

Has anyone ever seen the finish on a fallboard do this? We have other Falcones, but none of them have had this problem. This particular piano has gotten some direct sun on the fallboard for part of it's life.

Any thoughts about why it happens and how to remedy it (short of refinishing) would be much appreciated.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------