CAUT

Hello all,

Has anyone come up with a great technique for easily removing a grand piano lid without damaging anything, including the lid, the hinge pins, or the case?


------------------------------
David Pritchard
Liberty University
Lynchburg VA
434-841-7735
------------------------------

Place a moving pad (doubled-up) between the case and lid on the straight side. Slide the lid along the padding, pivot and lower to the floor. Reverse the process for installation.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@pianocapecod.com
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-20-2019 07:28
From: David Pritchard
Subject: Grand Piano Lid Removal

Hello all,

Has anyone come up with a great technique for easily removing a grand piano lid without damaging anything, including the lid, the hinge pins, or the case?


------------------------------
David Pritchard
Liberty University
Lynchburg VA
434-841-7735
------------------------------

Original Message------

Place a moving pad (doubled-up) between the case and lid on the straight side. Slide the lid along the padding, pivot and lower to the floor. Reverse the process for installation.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@pianocapecod.com
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

I fashioned a pair of needle-nosed pliers into hinge pin pliers. Its small profile eliminates case damage but a hammer is still needed to coax the pin. Especially useful on ball-end pins.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@pianocapecod.com
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-20-2019 08:52
From: David Pritchard
Subject: Grand Piano Lid Removal

Thanks, Jon.

Good idea!

However, I should have been more clear.  I am wondering about how to remove the hinge pins without marring them up or damaging the lid and piano case.  There's got to be a better way than pliers and a hammer...

Original Message------

Place a moving pad (doubled-up) between the case and lid on the straight side. Slide the lid along the padding, pivot and lower to the floor. Reverse the process for installation.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@pianocapecod.com
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Hi, all,

I made lid-removal kits for each school and venue where I’ve worked. If all the appropriate tools are in one easy kit, people are less likely to go grab the big hammer, or gouge up hinge pins with rough pliers. If anyone is interested, I have a photo of the kit.

I got empty document cases for $5 each from the local Home Depot, black heavy cloth, zip top, small window that holds a business card. The whole kit cost $25 and people were happy to purchase one. It includes a small light hammer, a very small pin punch for driving out ball-end or super-stubborn pins; a needle-nose pliers with the end ground to a blunt rounded tip that won’t gouge, and the inner “teeth” were smoothed out to minimize gouging of brass pins. It also includes a sheet of cardboard, edged with tape, and removal directions are written out on the card for stage crews. Also, there’s painters tape to tape the cardboard piece to the case briefly if damage seems likely. Then, any bumps of hammer or pliers will hit the thin cardboard, not the finish. There’s also a piece of buckskin for grabbing L-pin ends with the pliers, a couple of extra hinge pins, and my business card. When it’s all in one place, people will use the right tools. I made several kits at once, including one for myself, so only one trip to the store.

The instructions say to put a small towel or rag over the rim edges, especially when putting the lid back on, so hinges and other projections don’t scrape on the top of the rim while the lid is being positioned. When you’re ready, you can remove the cloths, drop the hinges into place and put in the pins.

Let me know if anyone wants to see the photo.

Kathy


Original Message------

I fashioned a pair of needle-nosed pliers into hinge pin pliers. Its small profile eliminates case damage but a hammer is still needed to coax the pin. Especially useful on ball-end pins.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@pianocapecod.com
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Original Message------

Hi, all,

I made lid-removal kits for each school and venue where I’ve worked. If all the appropriate tools are in one easy kit, people are less likely to go grab the big hammer, or gouge up hinge pins with rough pliers. If anyone is interested, I have a photo of the kit.

I got empty document cases for $5 each from the local Home Depot, black heavy cloth, zip top, small window that holds a business card. The whole kit cost $25 and people were happy to purchase one. It includes a small light hammer, a very small pin punch for driving out ball-end or super-stubborn pins; a needle-nose pliers with the end ground to a blunt rounded tip that won’t gouge, and the inner “teeth” were smoothed out to minimize gouging of brass pins. It also includes a sheet of cardboard, edged with tape, and removal directions are written out on the card for stage crews. Also, there’s painters tape to tape the cardboard piece to the case briefly if damage seems likely. Then, any bumps of hammer or pliers will hit the thin cardboard, not the finish. There’s also a piece of buckskin for grabbing L-pin ends with the pliers, a couple of extra hinge pins, and my business card. When it’s all in one place, people will use the right tools. I made several kits at once, including one for myself, so only one trip to the store.

The instructions say to put a small towel or rag over the rim edges, especially when putting the lid back on, so hinges and other projections don’t scrape on the top of the rim while the lid is being positioned. When you’re ready, you can remove the cloths, drop the hinges into place and put in the pins.

Let me know if anyone wants to see the photo.

Kathy

Original Message------

Brilliant as always, and yes to the photo, please.

Ruth

 

Ruth Zeiner

215-534-3834 cell

ruth@alliedpiano.com

 

Original Message------

Hi, all,

I made lid-removal kits for each school and venue where I’ve worked. If all the appropriate tools are in one easy kit, people are less likely to go grab the big hammer, or gouge up hinge pins with rough pliers. If anyone is interested, I have a photo of the kit.

I got empty document cases for $5 each from the local Home Depot, black heavy cloth, zip top, small window that holds a business card. The whole kit cost $25 and people were happy to purchase one. It includes a small light hammer, a very small pin punch for driving out ball-end or super-stubborn pins; a needle-nose pliers with the end ground to a blunt rounded tip that won’t gouge, and the inner “teeth” were smoothed out to minimize gouging of brass pins. It also includes a sheet of cardboard, edged with tape, and removal directions are written out on the card for stage crews. Also, there’s painters tape to tape the cardboard piece to the case briefly if damage seems likely. Then, any bumps of hammer or pliers will hit the thin cardboard, not the finish. There’s also a piece of buckskin for grabbing L-pin ends with the pliers, a couple of extra hinge pins, and my business card. When it’s all in one place, people will use the right tools. I made several kits at once, including one for myself, so only one trip to the store.

The instructions say to put a small towel or rag over the rim edges, especially when putting the lid back on, so hinges and other projections don’t scrape on the top of the rim while the lid is being positioned. When you’re ready, you can remove the cloths, drop the hinges into place and put in the pins.

Let me know if anyone wants to see the photo.

Kathy

Hi, David,

Happy to help. They say that "Laziness is the Mother of Invention", but I think her sister “Annoyance" is a big motivator too.

If you’re at the store buying the items, get some spares and make a bag to keep for yourself. I’m surprised at how many times I’ve used my own bag. And I don’t think I mentioned, the pin punch is 1/8”, or you could try 1/16” in case you have pianos with tiny hinge pins. And the document bags are made by Husky. If you can’t find them in a store, or something like them (7-1/2 x 12”) maybe you can find them online.

I too have removed a lid by myself, but only a small one. As mentioned here earlier, you can put a folded moving pad or towels under it on the straight side on top of the rim, and slide it over. In order for me to do it physically, I had to slide it a couple of feet toward the straight side by pushing from the bent side. Then I could go the the straight side, grasp it and pull it over and down (the piano is holding most of the weight as it tilts over and down, until the end). Have another pad ready on the floor for it to land on, and for your hands to not get trapped underneath on the floor! It worked fine, but I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t try it alone with a big piano.

Kathy


Original Message------

Thank you so much, Kathy.  Exactly what I was looking for.  I'll be making a kit for the university ASAP.

Original Message------

Thanks, Jon.

Good idea!

However, I should have been more clear.  I am wondering about how to remove the hinge pins without marring them up or damaging the lid and piano case.  There's got to be a better way than pliers and a hammer...

Original Message------

David & colleagues,
   Hammer & needle nose pliers - been there, done that. Nervously. Can't recall where/how I learned of this tactic, & saw no one else has shared it as yet.
    Obtain a cloth strap, one that clearly is woven, about 12 to 14 inches long x 1/2 to 1 inch wide. Thickness would be more than a mere 1/16", probably 3/32 to 1/8". Tie a simple knot near each end. Serves 2 purposes: prevents unravelling, & gives fingers something to grip/pull on. Wrap the middle portion around pin once with ends extending in direction pin goes for removal. One hand pulls the ends, other grips the strap & pin to rotate pin & keep strap on pin. I'd swear I have even used this with ball-headed style pins with success. Takes up very little room in my piano cleaning case. If photo is desired, I will need time to access case later today to take a shot.
   Thanks for sharing how to get a lid off the piano, good tactics to know.
Best, Alan

Original Message------

Alan

 

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The Piano Place GA

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I have a different way, I use my tuning hammer. Put the head of the hammer on the pin then with two hands on the hammer give it a hard pull. It has always worked for me.

Sent from my iPhone


Original Message------

David & colleagues,
   Hammer & needle nose pliers - been there, done that. Nervously. Can't recall where/how I learned of this tactic, & saw no one else has shared it as yet.
    Obtain a cloth strap, one that clearly is woven, about 12 to 14 inches long x 1/2 to 1 inch wide. Thickness would be more than a mere 1/16", probably 3/32 to 1/8". Tie a simple knot near each end. Serves 2 purposes: prevents unravelling, & gives fingers something to grip/pull on. Wrap the middle portion around pin once with ends extending in direction pin goes for removal. One hand pulls the ends, other grips the strap & pin to rotate pin & keep strap on pin. I'd swear I have even used this with ball-headed style pins with success. Takes up very little room in my piano cleaning case. If photo is desired, I will need time to access case later today to take a shot.
   Thanks for sharing how to get a lid off the piano, good tactics to know.
Best, Alan

If you have the type of screwdriver designed for removing the nuts on old Steinway key upstop rails, this can be used successfully on the ball type lid hinge pins. This is the type of screwdriver that is scooped out in the middle, with 2 tips for getting at those pesky washers. For an example, look at the Schaff catalog item #37. The opening between the business ends of the driver fits fairly well around the shoulders of the ball. Be sure to put it in a combo handle; then a few light taps with a smallish or medium sized hammer should do the trick. My split screwdrivers are round in the middle of the scoop, but I think the square shape may also work OK. This is a tip I learned from Tom Winter when I first started working at SFSU.

For removing L shaped hinge pins, I used a vise grip with virtually all of the serrated grooves at the tips ground off. Then you can clamp tightly on the hinge pins without dinging them up. Twist the hinge pin in the hinge until it sticks out from the spine of the piano. Then take a small or medium sized hammer and tap carefully only on the thickest side of the vise grip. You are holding the hammer far enough from the edge of the lid and the case so that it shouldn't cause a problem.

With both of these methods, it is possible, by working carefully, to never get near the case with a tool and risk scratching or gouging.

I don't know what people do for making sure the hinge pins don't go missing, but I had to train the other stage workers not to just store them in the hinge pins on the piano because of buzzing potential. Definitely don't put them in your pockets. I found that using blue or green tape to attach them to the outside of the lid was the best solution.

Margie Williams
pnotuner@pacbell.net

"We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much for so long, with so little, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing." (Unknown)


Original Message------

Hello all,

Has anyone come up with a great technique for easily removing a grand piano lid without damaging anything, including the lid, the hinge pins, or the case?


------------------------------
David Pritchard
Liberty University
Lynchburg VA
434-841-7735
------------------------------

Original Message------

If you have the type of screwdriver designed for removing the nuts on old Steinway key upstop rails, this can be used successfully on the ball type lid hinge pins. This is the type of screwdriver that is scooped out in the middle, with 2 tips for getting at those pesky washers. For an example, look at the Schaff catalog item #37. The opening between the business ends of the driver fits fairly well around the shoulders of the ball. Be sure to put it in a combo handle; then a few light taps with a smallish or medium sized hammer should do the trick. My split screwdrivers are round in the middle of the scoop, but I think the square shape may also work OK. This is a tip I learned from Tom Winter when I first started working at SFSU.

For removing L shaped hinge pins, I used a vise grip with virtually all of the serrated grooves at the tips ground off. Then you can clamp tightly on the hinge pins without dinging them up. Twist the hinge pin in the hinge until it sticks out from the spine of the piano. Then take a small or medium sized hammer and tap carefully only on the thickest side of the vise grip. You are holding the hammer far enough from the edge of the lid and the case so that it shouldn't cause a problem.

With both of these methods, it is possible, by working carefully, to never get near the case with a tool and risk scratching or gouging.

I don't know what people do for making sure the hinge pins don't go missing, but I had to train the other stage workers not to just store them in the hinge pins on the piano because of buzzing potential. Definitely don't put them in your pockets. I found that using blue or green tape to attach them to the outside of the lid was the best solution.

Margie Williams
pnotuner@pacbell.net

"We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much for so long, with so little, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing." (Unknown)

Thank you, Fred! I have a system I figured out for moving uprights onto a moving dolly and being able move them on my own (using a Johnson bar, sand weight bag, RV wheel chocks) but even then I never ever would have thought of taking a grand lid off by myself in a pinch. By “padding” it looks like you mean using heavily padded moving blankets...perhaps folded in half. I’m sure I’ll figure it out if I ever need to but just knowing it’s possible is good to know.

Sean

Sean McLaughlin
Lead Piano Technician
UCLA Herb Alpert School of Music
Los Angeles, California
310-825-7058 office/


Original Message------

I know this isn't the topic aimed at, but I have removed and replaced a concert grand lid solo at least a couple times - just turned out there was no help available, so I decided to figure it out. So in case it arises for someone else, here's what I did:

Hinge pin removal, lift and install padding by hinges and where the prop is (over the positioning pin). Pad on floor by spine (straight side, bass)

Rotate the lid on the piano so that the front (keyboard end) is aligned to the spine, and overhanging almost to the balance point.  

Tilt downwards and rotate it to meet the floor. Drag it where you want (to the wings) on the blanket. Lean it so the front lid doesn't hinge open, or perhaps strap it or use painter's tape to hold in place.

Replacement can be done by a reverse process. I won't say it was easy, but it doesn't require all that much strength. It's more a matter of procedure and control, taking it slow and careful.

Regards,

Fred Sturm

fssturm@unm.edu

http://fredsturm.net

www.artoftuning.com

"I am only interested in music that is better than it can be played." Schnabel