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Baldwin R string scale

  • 1.  Baldwin R string scale

    Posted 11-11-2022 22:56

    I am wondering if anyone has a file with the string scale for an older Baldwin R. I have a 1908 Baldwin R in my shop that I am putting new strings on. It is only the second time I have installed new bass strings and the first time to replace all the strings. I measured each plain wire string with a micrometer as I removed them and as I was doing so I came across at least two instances where the string gauge changed in the last string of a three string unison. It has made me not sure of some of my measurements and I am now worried I have some of them incorrect possibly. 

       I imagine the scaling of the Baldwin R is not something that has changed much over the life of that model being produced, but maybe older American made ones differ from more recent ones?
    I also wonder if there is a significant problem with possibly having the wrong gauge on a string or two here and there. Perhaps it was restrung at some point and the strings were not matched perfectly? If anyone has a copy of the scale for the Baldwin R, I would be most grateful. 


    Nick Dedini



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    Nicholas Dedini
    Arcata CA
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  • 2.  RE: Baldwin R string scale

    Posted 11-12-2022 00:24
    According to John Travis', A Guide to Restringing:

    13 6
         4
    14 4
         5
    15 6
         6
    16 6
         4
    17 10
    18 6
    19 4
    20 2

    Or you could measure the Speaking Lengths and have it rescaled.

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    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
    http://www.pianocapecod.com
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    Original Message


  • 3.  RE: Baldwin R string scale

    Posted 11-12-2022 10:27
    Hi Nicholas.
    I used to live in Arcata!

    Baldwin R (from A Guide to Restringing)

    13 - 6
    13 1/2 - 4
    14 - 4
    14 1/2 - 5
    15 - 6
    15 1/2 - 6
    16 - 6
    16 1/2 - 4
    17 - 10
    18 - 6
    19 - 4
    20 - 2



    Original Message


  • 4.  RE: Baldwin R string scale

    Posted 11-12-2022 11:40
    Thank you, Jon and Robert! Wow, that is very different from what I am seeing in the piano.

    I finished removing and measuring the strings and what I found is:
    13 - 4
    13 1/2 - 4
    14 - 6
    14 1/2 - 5
    15 - 6
    15 1/2 - 8
    16 - 4
    16 1/2 - 4
    17 1/2 - 5 (minus one string, as the next size begins on the last string of the last note)
    18 - 3
    18 1/2 - 5
    19 - 4
    20 - 2
    21 - 1 (plus one string)

    Starting with size 18, the last string of that size goes into the next note for one string, then the size changes for the other two strings of the note. This continues for the rest of the piano. This seemed strange to me, but the measurements bear it out. There are also a number of other differences between what has been shared from the book and what was in the piano. I had been using more recent texts as guides, but realized that I had a copy of the Travis Guide to Restringing in my library, and it says that Baldwin scale numbers are always printed on the plate, however that is not the case on the piano I am working on. 
     I imagine it is not typical, nor a good idea, to have two string sizes within a unison. Should I revert back to the published string scale when I restring it? Or copy what was in the piano? Thoughts welcome and appreciated.


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    Nicholas Dedini
    Arcata CA
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    Original Message


  • 5.  RE: Baldwin R string scale

    Posted 11-12-2022 11:51
    Never have two strings of different sizes on the same unison.  Without seeing the piano, it sounds like someone painted over the plate and restrung it just making things up.  Unless you want to rescale it yourself, I would go with what's in the book.  



    Original Message


  • 6.  RE: Baldwin R string scale

    Posted 11-12-2022 23:04
    The mystery deepens! I found out from Arledge that the bass string configuration is different from any Baldwin, or any other piano, he has made bass strings for. There are 8 unisons and 19 bichords. The plain wire sections are also be different from the book, as the scale from the book has 63 notes in it, but the piano has 61 notes with plain wire trichords. 
        It looks like I will need to rescale it or modify the scale that was in the piano to avoid having two different string sizes in a trichord unison. The large number of unisons with two string sizes has me a bit concerned for the care that went into the scale in the piano, so maybe rescaling it is the better option? I do not know how to do this, however. Any resources or advice on how this is done?

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    Nicholas Dedini
    Arcata CA
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    Original Message


  • 7.  RE: Baldwin R string scale

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-13-2022 00:13
    Nick:

    You haven't shared what most of us would want to hear about the piano. What is the actual length?  Is "Baldwin" cast into the plate, or does it only have the "House of Baldwin" round plate set into the plate?  (It DOES have at least one of these, right?)  

    How many singles, how many bichords, and how many tenor wound strings?   However, we can deduce some things.  You've just posted it has 8 "unisons" - you mean singles I think - and 19 bichords.  You've also listed a plain wire scale that I counted 61 plain wire notes.  Thats 27 notes with wound strings, which would match only one piano similar in length to the 5'8" Baldwin R:  The "E" scale.  You didn't say how many bass and how many tenor wound strings, but your 27 wound string notes fit the "E" scale, which has 20 bass notes and 7 tenor bichords.   

    The "E" scale is often confused with the "R" but they are two entirely different scales for the same length piano.  The "E" scale has different style or model letters, including at least "E" and "H".  The casting letter in the tail is usually "E" but I've found "SE" by the late 1930s, and even "E" with two dots below the letter.  So there were minor scale changes, no doubt.  But The Baldwin catalogs contained one "E" string scale for all of them.

    The style/model number should also be found ink-stamped with the actual serial number, under the treble belly (soundboard or belly rail).  

    The "E" scale ran from the earliest years of Baldwin under Lucien Wulsin (approximately 1900) until the late 1930s.  By then the cabinet looked like the modern "R" but the scale was still the "E."  HOWEVER, Baldwin was building the 26 bass note "G" scale for some years too, as a 5'6" model, and then it discontinued the "E" scale and put the "G" scale into a 5'8" case and called it the "R".   All are great scales.  

    I suspect you will find evidences of the "E" scale in the markings on your piano, and in the layout and count of the bass/tenor wound strings, as I've explained above.  Isn't the scale in "A Guide to Restringing"?  If not we can drum up the Baldwin catalog.

    Let us know!

    Regards,

    Bill



    Original Message


  • 8.  RE: Baldwin R string scale

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-13-2022 00:31
      |   view attached
    Nick,

    I've found the file with the Baldwin service manuals, so here is the string scale page.  Hopefully the attachment will come through.

    Bill



    Attachment(s)

    pdf
    Baldwin String Scales from Service Manual.pdf   181 KB 1 version