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Casters on a Yamaha CFX

  • 1.  Casters on a Yamaha CFX

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-16-2025 11:43

    Hello!

    We ordered the nice double brass casters with brakes from Yamaha for an 1980's CFX which was donated to our school of music. It's in excellent condition. Quite a donation.

    Anyway, we currently have it on a spider which is sagging due to the weight of this beast.  The problem is that the casters will raise the piano up about 1 1/2" too high. Of course I should have measured before ordering. They said there was one set that fits all CFX's so I thought we were good. I could send them back but would really like to use them if possible. We have a similar set on our Steinway D and love them.

    Turns out the D legs are about 1 1/2 inches shorter than the Yamaha legs to accommodate the large casters. 

    So, do I have any options? I'm having trouble getting though to Yamaha this week. Do they make a shorter set of legs to accommodate these casters? Do they even make legs that fit older models anymore? Has anyone ever cut or sanded the feet down to accommodate these casters? Maybe that's crazy but would certainly be cheaper than a new set of legs. Just not sure if that's safe to do or if it's even possible to get a good factory clean cut, etc. 

    Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. 

    Thanks!

    Jon



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    Jon Anderson RPT
    Moscow ID
    (208) 669-0083
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  • 2.  RE: Casters on a Yamaha CFX

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-17-2025 07:59

    Back then they probably did make two different lengths of legs.It is possible to cut them down with a chop saw- I'll been doing it lately on practice room and faculty Ls and Bs when switching out the old non rolling brass casters for either a truck or double Darnell rubber wheels. You want to take off just a little a first, then make your final cut. Or you can take a leg at a time to a local shop if you aren't set up to do it.  An 80s piano is probably lacquer rather than polyester? So it won't pop off as saw blade comes down. If you use a fine blade, that probably isn't an issue anyway. You just have to set up saw so that the leg is perpendicular to saw blade. I have been using a jack in the box  as I do each leg. I wish I had thought of it years ago, much more comfortable for the pianist's foot. 
    one more thing, which has come up lately on several pianos- the caster threads into a large insert that is attached to the leg, correct? Make sure the caster assembly is threaded into the insert the proper amount so that piano is as low as possible and level. Have found a couple of pianos recently that had a tilt either fore and aft or side to side. 



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    David Graham,RPT
    Graham Piano Service, Inc
    Sycamore IL 60178
    815-353-5450
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  • 3.  RE: Casters on a Yamaha CFX

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-17-2025 11:43
    Hi,   You will probably have a problem with the lyre as well.  Yes the legs are shorter for the big casters and the lyre is different also.  

    I have given classes on how to use the grand trucks.  I only see the arching of the tubes when the truck/piano is not installed properly.  There are short and long bend arms to go into the tubes which will set the height of the piano.  Where this is an issue is the lyre distance from the floor.

    The distance of the arm coming out of the tube should be equal on all three legs.  This balances the weight and the center plates have only one direction to be placed. 

    The piano has to have no weight on it when the bolts are tightened or the truck will warp the tubes. 

    Placing your piano on big casters cause an insure with untrained movers and run away pianos. And a lip should be added to your stage apron.  Lastly there is the dirt, lint and hair that gets into all of the wheels and causes problems.  I haven't had to deal with this yet on the big new Steinway casters.  

    Then there is the issue of voicing the piano.  Yours was on small brass castors so the change might be more volume on bigger casters.  If you go from a grand truck rubber wheels to big  castors it will become louder and most likely need voicing down. I hope that this helps, maybe someone has some shorter legs for you, but you will need to think about your lyre. 

    All the best,


    Sent from Gmail Mobile 





  • 4.  RE: Casters on a Yamaha CFX

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-17-2025 12:59
    Thanks David and Jessica for the feedback and suggestions. Very helpful!

    If I do decide to shorten the legs I think the lyre will not be an issue as it should remain the same distance off the floor. But I will check the arms on the grand truck first. Maybe that will resolve the problem and I can just send the casters back. I talked to a few local techs who ran into similar issues due to the weight of Yamaha grands. But hopefully, if adjusted correctly we might just leave well enough alone.

    Also interesting about the voicing changing due to the ground contact and metal vs rubber wheels. Certainly a consideration as well. 
    Yes, these wheels are scary in how simple it can be to loose control. I like the idea for putting a lip on the front of the stage. 

    Thank you!





    Original Message


  • 5.  RE: Casters on a Yamaha CFX

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-17-2025 16:35

    Jon, you wrote: "If I do decide to shorten the legs I think the lyre will not be an issue as it should remain the same distance off the floor." Think about that again! If you shorten the legs, the lyre will be lower by the same amount.



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    Patrick Draine RPT
    Billerica MA
    (978) 663-9690
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    Original Message


  • 6.  RE: Casters on a Yamaha CFX

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-17-2025 17:08

    if the purpose of shortening the legs is to compensate for the greater diameter of the replacement casters, in order to keep the keyboard at the same height above the floor, then it could be that the lyre will wind up the same distance from the floor as it was with the previous casters on the original legs.



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    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
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    Original Message


  • 7.  RE: Casters on a Yamaha CFX

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-17-2025 18:25
    Yes the lyre would go down at first but the casters are 1 1/2" taller than the normal casters. It should all work out if I decide to cut off 1 1/2" from the legs which will make up the difference. If I just put these larger casters on the current legs, the lyre will be lifted up 1 1/2", for a total of at least 2" off the floor. Hope that makes sense. 
    Always good for me to rethink these things! 




    Original Message


  • 8.  RE: Casters on a Yamaha CFX

    Member
    Posted 09-17-2025 19:12

    Before doing any cuts talk to the tech support people at Yamaha or you will be sorry, Cutting off material from the legs is not a great idea . If you ever tried to make cuts on chair legs or stools you will know what I mean. Anyway I had to put new casters on a Yamaha G2 due to some dogs using the legs as trees as well as the lyre and pedal box. I used a motorcycle scissor jack under the keybed as well as an hydraulic racing jack with pressure treated 4 x 4 posts plus some jack stands I do not trust the jack in the box due to seal failure potential and hydraulic fluid leaks . The new caster stems did not fit into the legs because they are current production. Had to use a small router and a pattern to take out wood and allow the tapered housing to seat properly. Fortunately Yamaha found a replacement lyre with the exact same finish and height. There was a metal beam under the keybed so the lyre was considered a short lyre . If the new casters raise the lyre you will want to fabricate a spacer to sit on top of the lyre between it and the keybed. I had to do this on 2 suzuki grand pianos purchased from Costco The pedal height was made for Asian pianists because of their shorter frame



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    James Kelly
    Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
    Pawleys Island SC
    (843) 325-4357
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    Original Message


  • 9.  RE: Casters on a Yamaha CFX

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-18-2025 00:37
    Thanks James. I'm leaning towards finding a better piano truck solution. I too am hesitant to cut the legs down. Sounds possible but a bit scary. Just looking at all possible solutions. 

    I am still trying to get a hold of Yamaha. Will try again tomorrow. I do have access to a couple very heavy duty "carts" that I can rest it on if I take off the legs one at a time. A local refinisher had them made for this kinda job.  I would still keep the jack in the box in place as well so I feel pretty comfortable with that. 

    I think it may come down to either buying new shorter legs, if they would even fit this older model, or looking into a better truck. A new truck will probably cost the same as the casters, but new legs will add onto the overall price significantly. We'll see what the people with the purse strings have to say. :)

    After checking today, the truck it's on now appears to be adjusted correctly but it's pretty old and ugly, and obviously sagging. I've heard Jansen might be able to make a beefed up version for heavier pianos like this. I'll reach out to them as well to see.

    Again, thanks everyone for all your thoughts and suggestions. 




    Original Message


  • 10.  RE: Casters on a Yamaha CFX

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-19-2025 09:34
    Hi Jon, 
    I have not seen a grand truck sag in the middle before.  It would be nice to see a photo of what you have and are dealing with.  If you have tubes and arms like the modern trucks maybe the tube welding is broken.  If the truck bolts are tightened after the piano is loaded the center of the truck might look like it is rising but it is from the tubes and arms bending and once they are bent they won't go back. 

    Norman made a post with photos the grand truck he shows is not the correct size for the piano.  Never leave your piano on a hydraulic jack, they can leak and drop down to the box.  I use cut 2x4 and 3/4" plywood on both sides of the jack at the top in case this ever happens while I am working.  

    The very first time I had to purchase and install a truck I had very good instructions.  The end s of the arms need to have something beneath them 2x4 block (depends on the bend of the arm) to keep the weight of the piano off the truck then you finish tightening up the cart.  I have had to add a stack of wood under the center plate as well to be able to turn and adjust the truck.  

    I believe you don't have the correct casters for your piano and taking and sharing the measurements of your legs spade width as well would help you find the correct casters. Possibly the length of your lyre as well might be helpful.

    Your beast, as you say can't weigh more than most other concert grands. 





    Sent from Gmail Mobile



    Original Message


  • 11.  RE: Casters on a Yamaha CFX

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-19-2025 23:29
    A couple of data points on the CFIIIS at NIU, from 2008: double casters are 3 1/2", wood of leg is 20 1/2" ( bass and treble legs, didn't measure the nose leg). You likely have a CFIII, but would guess the measurements  are similar.
    I like the ASU protocol, but I don't have a great table saw, so, compound miter saw works for me. I don't think fear of what could go wrong is a reason to not do something, rather it is a reason to be careful. Fortunately pianos have three legs rather than four and they aren't cut on an angle like chair legs, so it really isn't too bad. If you have a less expensive piano to try it out first, that would be a confidence booster. Maybe an older piano that also sits too high on a stage truck, which is why I have done it.  
    On the other hand, if you can find proper legs or slightly smaller casters, great. We bought new legs for a donated D when we switched to the brass double casters. Since this is a donation, talk to the people in school foundation about needing to pay for this- it isn't that great an expense, and they want the donor to be happy with the result. In their minds,It would be like paying for a new bench for the piano, or some touch up work, which might get someone else to make a similar donation. Your director will be thinking about the current budget, they will be thinking long term strategy.
    All of this assumes there is no threshold for the piano to clear. Otherwise, use a stage truck, beefed up if necessary to reduce bowing, or we use a Grand Piano Transporter to move the Fazioli 278 on and off stage, which weighs way more than the Yamaha, I had to have it modified by a local machinist to bow less. It still will bow some, but it works, with the same type of hydraulic jacks as a jack in the box. We just leave it under load long enough to get on and off stage, and then release the pressure. That works too. We never let the piano get all the way to the edge of the stage, so do not need a lip, but that depends on the size of your stage. If a leg did go over, the lyre would drop down and stop it, but I never want to see that theory tested. The only time a piano did go over the edge, it was on a stage truck, and while we couldn't prove it, it was probably deliberate. Piano flipped onto its lid, broke the prop stick. That was it, after falling four  feet. Must have been very loud. Hope everyone is off to a great start of their semester.
    David Graham
    Graham Piano Service, Inc.
    512 S. Main St.
    Sycamore IL 60178
    815-353-5450





    Original Message


  • 12.  RE: Casters on a Yamaha CFX

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-25-2025 11:09
    Well, after looking at every angle here, I decided to send the casters back. Yamaha didn't charge any fees. Just had to pay return shipping. 
    I was just about to go ahead and cut the legs down, which seemed very doable with Rick's method, but decided the truck it's on could be fixed and save the money for other priorities. 

    Turns out a local welding shop can fix some slight bends and spot weld a couple spots to beef it up for about $150. We also made some slight adjustments to even out the truck and tighten everything up really snug as Jessica suggested. It did help a little as well.

    It's certainly not as elegant as the casters but will be fine for now as it is our secondary piano in this location. I might be able to repaint it as well. 

    Glad to know all I know now if I run into similar issues in the future. Thanks so much for all the great feedback!
    Jon





    Original Message


  • 13.  RE: Casters on a Yamaha CFX

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-18-2025 04:17

    This is really not that big of a deal with the correct tools: a decent table saw, a sharp crosscut blade, a relatively powerful hand drill, and the appropriate sizes of forstner bits.  We have done this on 4 pianos with no issues and the new casters are a huge improvement in appearance and tone. This is assuming the piano stays on a wood stage and has no thresholds to cross.

     

    Our procedure:

     

    Use a board between the top of the leg and the fence, with holes drilled for dowels or locking plate.  This will allow the wide top of the leg to act as a stable guide during the cut as it slides along the fence.

     

    Place a thin layer of felt between the leg and the table to avoid scratching during the cut.  Cut a second board with felt on the top side that is the appropriate size to lay in the miter slot in the table saw so the leg is raised to the point of the bottom being square with the blade.  This piece of wood needs to be long enough to allow the full cut.

     

    After determining the amount of wood to cut off the bottom of the leg (usually around 1.5 inches), set the fence from the blade at the appropriate distance.

     

    Tape around the area of the cut with masking tape to minimize chipping of the finish.  Pull the tape off in a downward motion, toward the cut.  Slightly rounding the edges after the cut and touching up with the correct lacquer or polyurethane restores a nice factory look.

     

    Cut two ½ inch plywood or other scrap wood the size of the new leg bottom.  Drill holes in the center of these with the two forstner bits – one for the stem and one for the plate.  These will act as your bit guides while the bit cuts into the leg, a must if there are previous holes in the legs from other casters, and for your second, plate hole.  Clamp the two boards together and drill screw holes through both in the corners so you can screw them to the bottom of the leg – this allows you to place both pieces in the same relative position when drilling.  Drill out the stem hole first, followed by the plate hole.  Occasionally the forstner bit is not an exact match with the caster stem and plate. A few minutes with a Dremel tool or paper shimming are easy fixes.

     

    Screw them on, attach the legs, and admire your work 😊

     

    BTW, we use a jack in the box with no issues.  Although we always place sawhorses as a backup the case of failure.

     

    ___________________

    Rick Florence

    Manager, Keyboard Technology and Event Services

    Arizona State University

    School of Music, Dance and Theatre




    Original Message


  • 14.  RE: Casters on a Yamaha CFX

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-18-2025 16:19
    Thank you Rick! Glad this has worked so well for you. I will decide which way to go and try to post a follow up next week. I do have access to the correct tools, etc. if needed. 
    Again, appreciate all the great advice.




    Original Message


  • 15.  RE: Casters on a Yamaha CFX

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-19-2025 08:15
    Years ago I installed this support between the truck and the underside of a D at a local university. It stabilized the truck and improved the tone. The second picture shows the components a little better. It's made with pipe fittings and a piece of All Thread with a couple of nuts and washers to adjust and lock the height. If you paint it black, it's pretty unnoticeable. If anyone asks, you can say you installed a spit valve on the piano. 



    Original Message


  • 16.  RE: Casters on a Yamaha CFX

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-18-2025 08:54

    Mr. Anderson,

    I think the problem may be that you have casters for a CFX and your piano is a CFIII. The CFX came out in this century and has much taller casters. If you gave Yamaha the serial number then it's their mistake. If you just told them it's a CFX then you'll need to exchange the ones you have for the right ones and pay the restocking fee.



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    Karl Roeder
    Pompano Beach FL
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