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Cracked Plate - Baldwin Upright Grand

  • 1.  Cracked Plate - Baldwin Upright Grand

    Member
    Posted 06-04-2023 06:19
    I’m in the process of restoring an1889 Baldwin Upright Grand piano for a client. When bass strings were removed and dust and dirt removed I noticed that the plate had two cracks - one of the hitch pins was cracked and the hitch pin came loose and the other crack was at the bass where brace meets bottom of plate - options are to epoxy or remove plate and find a welder - any suggestions appreciated - don’t know if I should continue or junk this piano.


  • 2.  RE: Cracked Plate - Baldwin Upright Grand

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-04-2023 09:24

    Stan,

    I suspect step one would be try to determine the cause of the cracking and roughly how long it may have been in existence. It sounds like no signs of this were in existence prior dismantle.

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor 



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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    (603) 686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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  • 3.  RE: Cracked Plate - Baldwin Upright Grand

    Member
    Posted 06-04-2023 09:35
    It would be difficult to determine when or what caused these cracks. Only thing noticed before disassembling the piano was that it couldn’t keep a tuning. No noticeable buzzing was happening and from the action view, it looked like it had several tech’s keeping the piano in playing condition - even replaced hammers.




  • 4.  RE: Cracked Plate - Baldwin Upright Grand

    Member
    Posted 06-04-2023 14:40

    What shape is the pin block in- are loose tuning pins an issue. You stated it could not keep a tuning but why ?

    The plate was cast in 1889 which is quite old and the cast iron has probably a much different composition than later plates. It is difficult to weld cast iron and probably impossible to guarantee the work. I think you efforts will likely fail and the plate may even develop additional cracks when tension is added back in. It could have been damage in a move or had a weak spot in the casting. Customer needs to be informed it would be quite expensive and repairs if done carry no guarantee. At least save the action and other parts for an organ bank so other techs can recycle them . Some pictures would be good to post 



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    James Kelly
    Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
    Pawleys Island SC
    (843) 325-4357
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  • 5.  RE: Cracked Plate - Baldwin Upright Grand

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-05-2023 10:11
    Hi Stan, this could be a great candidate for plate stitching or welding.  The welding process is pretty involved and you'll need to locate someone with the facilities to heat the plate properly to do the job, but it can be done.  Most likely it'll be a place that specializes in engine block repairs.  I've had it done quite a few times with good results from this place: http://www.locknstitch.com/index.html

    But like others have suggested it would be good to try to locate the reason for the cracks if possible. If it's a matter of how the plate was fit to the piano, then this problem could come back.  

    Best of luck!  





  • 6.  RE: Cracked Plate - Baldwin Upright Grand

    Member
    Posted 06-05-2023 14:41
    Thanks Matteo, I’ve been given a welder who specializes in recovering plates for grand and upright pianos - he says he needs to have the piano in his shop to complete the work - interesting how money just slips out of your hands when you take on rebuilding projects!




  • 7.  RE: Cracked Plate - Baldwin Upright Grand

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-05-2023 18:54
    This repair, augmented with epoxy, is on a Baldwin vertical #1302.  No stitching was performed, as we were able to secure and stabilize the panels with the steel panel laminated to the plate.  Stitching is an amazing repair, when you can do it.  But I'd reinforce this plate anyway.   This isn't the first pre-1900 Baldwin vertical I've seen with this problem;  in this case the piano had received other restoration and the repairing tech left the nosebolt free and unsecured;  the plate cracked later.  Was that the cause?  Who knows;  it's not a strong plate anyway.  It needed all the help it could get.  

    I believe these pianos were all made for D.H. Baldwin at the Ohio Valley Piano Company, upriver from Cincinnati.   

    Bill





  • 8.  RE: Cracked Plate - Baldwin Upright Grand

    Member
    Posted 06-06-2023 06:49
    Thanks Bill, Your photo of the entire plate matches our piano - only difference is that the crack in the plate in your photo is above the soundboard and doesn’t touch the case. I’m attaching pic’s of the cracks in our plate - 1st one is just where the plate is screwed into the case and the 2nd pic shows where the hitch pin has come loose and the crack follows the diameter of the hitch pin. We’re in the process of getting a quote from Ames Mechanical located in Stillwater, MN. Ken Hannah has used them in the past and they had some media coverage of pianos that they have repaired. Keep you posted and thanks again for your email, Stan




  • 9.  RE: Cracked Plate - Baldwin Upright Grand

    Member
    Posted 06-06-2023 11:37

    Stan - there are no attachments in your recent reply. I am interested in the media coverage done on Ames Mechanical. Maybe they have the ability to create miracles on broken plates. A woman posted recently about a cracked plate on pianotech about a piano she had that had a crack on two plate struts maybe she should see if Ames can quote her 



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    James Kelly
    Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
    Pawleys Island SC
    (843) 325-4357
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  • 10.  RE: Cracked Plate - Baldwin Upright Grand

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-07-2023 01:23
    Hi Stan,

    I didn't see any pics......

    Regards,

    Bill

    Bill Shull, RPT, M.Mus.
    www.shullpiano.com
    www.periodpiano.org
    909 796-4226

    Sent from my iPhone





  • 11.  RE: Cracked Plate - Baldwin Upright Grand

    Member
    Posted 06-08-2023 09:35

    Here are the pictures



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    [Stan] [Ragnes [Associate]
    [Owner]
    [Ragnes Piano Service]
    [Plymouth] [MN]
    [763-438-9976]
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  • 12.  RE: Cracked Plate - Baldwin Upright Grand

    Member
    Posted 06-08-2023 09:41

    More pic's



    ------------------------------
    [Stan] [Ragnes [Associate]
    [Owner]
    [Ragnes Piano Service]
    [Plymouth] [MN]
    [763-438-9976]
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: Cracked Plate - Baldwin Upright Grand

    Posted 06-12-2023 19:33
    Steel plate bolted to the plate from top and bottom( if clearance permits. Than drill , thread and screw bolt at least 1/2” diameter , cut it flash and drill hole for hitch pin.

    Alexander Brusilovsky