Pianotech

Gorgeous Yamaha C7 from 1986. Biggest problem is stability. Temperature in the home is pretty stable, but rh moves around a bit from visit to visit. Needs a pitch correction from around ±20¢ almost every visit, but I don't think it's a humidity thing. Piano sits in a well protected, (from the sun), south facing wall full of single pane small french windows. Customer is open to a string cover but is not comfortable with a dehumidifying D/C setup. My guess is that neither of these will actually solve this problem anyway because of the pianos proximity to that wall of glass. I think that the amount of temperature change on the left side of the piano that these single pane windows allow is actually the cause. Yes, she closes the curtains at night but they are fairly light. Don't offer much protection. No, she's not willing to move the piano. The room won't allow it.  My fantasy is to discover a device that keeps the plate at a more constant temperature. (* hah - sigh *) Hopefully you people here have some ideas on how to address this. 

Thanks --

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

The radiant heat during the day and the cooler nights cause the piano to go out of tune daily. The only solution is to move the piano to another room. A DC and/or string cover won't eliminate the problem, only lessen it.  If she's not willing to relocate the piano, she has to live with the consequences. Floating the pitch is about all you can do for stability, since she obviously doesn't care about pitch.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-19-2022 00:43
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

Gorgeous Yamaha C7 from 1986. Biggest problem is stability. Temperature in the home is pretty stable, but rh moves around a bit from visit to visit. Needs a pitch correction from around ±20¢ almost every visit, but I don't think it's a humidity thing. Piano sits in a well protected, (from the sun), south facing wall full of single pane small french windows. Customer is open to a string cover but is not comfortable with a dehumidifying D/C setup. My guess is that neither of these will actually solve this problem anyway because of the pianos proximity to that wall of glass. I think that the amount of temperature change on the left side of the piano that these single pane windows allow is actually the cause. Yes, she closes the curtains at night but they are fairly light. Don't offer much protection. No, she's not willing to move the piano. The room won't allow it.  My fantasy is to discover a device that keeps the plate at a more constant temperature. (* hah - sigh *) Hopefully you people here have some ideas on how to address this.

Thanks --

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

The thickest heaviest quilted cover that reaches part way down the legs. That will insulate the structure from the radiant heat. 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-19-2022 07:04
From: Jon Page
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

The radiant heat during the day and the cooler nights cause the piano to go out of tune daily. The only solution is to move the piano to another room. A DC and/or string cover won't eliminate the problem, only lessen it.  If she's not willing to relocate the piano, she has to live with the consequences. Floating the pitch is about all you can do for stability, since she obviously doesn't care about pitch.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-19-2022 00:43
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

Gorgeous Yamaha C7 from 1986. Biggest problem is stability. Temperature in the home is pretty stable, but rh moves around a bit from visit to visit. Needs a pitch correction from around ±20¢ almost every visit, but I don't think it's a humidity thing. Piano sits in a well protected, (from the sun), south facing wall full of single pane small french windows. Customer is open to a string cover but is not comfortable with a dehumidifying D/C setup. My guess is that neither of these will actually solve this problem anyway because of the pianos proximity to that wall of glass. I think that the amount of temperature change on the left side of the piano that these single pane windows allow is actually the cause. Yes, she closes the curtains at night but they are fairly light. Don't offer much protection. No, she's not willing to move the piano. The room won't allow it.  My fantasy is to discover a device that keeps the plate at a more constant temperature. (* hah - sigh *) Hopefully you people here have some ideas on how to address this.

Thanks --

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10/19/2022 9:14:00 PM
From: Peter Grey
Subject: RE: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

The thickest heaviest quilted cover that reaches part way down the legs. That will insulate the structure from the radiant heat. 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-19-2022 07:04
From: Jon Page
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

The radiant heat during the day and the cooler nights cause the piano to go out of tune daily. The only solution is to move the piano to another room. A DC and/or string cover won't eliminate the problem, only lessen it.  If she's not willing to relocate the piano, she has to live with the consequences. Floating the pitch is about all you can do for stability, since she obviously doesn't care about pitch.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-19-2022 00:43
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

Gorgeous Yamaha C7 from 1986. Biggest problem is stability. Temperature in the home is pretty stable, but rh moves around a bit from visit to visit. Needs a pitch correction from around ±20¢ almost every visit, but I don't think it's a humidity thing. Piano sits in a well protected, (from the sun), south facing wall full of single pane small french windows. Customer is open to a string cover but is not comfortable with a dehumidifying D/C setup. My guess is that neither of these will actually solve this problem anyway because of the pianos proximity to that wall of glass. I think that the amount of temperature change on the left side of the piano that these single pane windows allow is actually the cause. Yes, she closes the curtains at night but they are fairly light. Don't offer much protection. No, she's not willing to move the piano. The room won't allow it.  My fantasy is to discover a device that keeps the plate at a more constant temperature. (* hah - sigh *) Hopefully you people here have some ideas on how to address this.

Thanks --

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

The curtains may have reduced the heat affecting the piano but the infra-red and ultra-violet still penetrates to warm everything and fade the finish. Actually it removes the red in the finish and causes the plasticizers to off-gas and the finish cracks or powders off when rubbed.

Look at a piano near a window and you will see the case is different colors. Lift the lid to see the original color. The exposed side of the sharps can fade too.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-20-2022 10:03
From: Gary Messling
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

If the problem is heating caused by direct light, I discovered accidentally that sheer window curtains can eliminate the infrared heat through a window. This is totally anecdotal but here's the story.

After regularly tuning for the same customer's small grand located near a bay window for several years, I arrived one particularly sunny morning. On previous appointments, I must have been there during another season or another time of day and never noticed just how very warm (almost hot) the piano rim and lid were on this particular day.

I talked with the customer about the potential problems the heat might cause and during the conversation her husband entered the room after overhearing us. Without a word he stepped over to the windows and ceremoniously pulled the sheer curtain ties allowing the sheer curtains to completely drape over the windows. The piano case cooled almost instantly.

Now, I don't know if there was some special IR thing about their particular sheer curtains but that's my story...

   

Gary Messling

Original Message:
Sent: 10/19/2022 9:14:00 PM
From: Peter Grey
Subject: RE: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

The thickest heaviest quilted cover that reaches part way down the legs. That will insulate the structure from the radiant heat.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-19-2022 07:04
From: Jon Page
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

The radiant heat during the day and the cooler nights cause the piano to go out of tune daily. The only solution is to move the piano to another room. A DC and/or string cover won't eliminate the problem, only lessen it.  If she's not willing to relocate the piano, she has to live with the consequences. Floating the pitch is about all you can do for stability, since she obviously doesn't care about pitch.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-19-2022 00:43
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

Gorgeous Yamaha C7 from 1986. Biggest problem is stability. Temperature in the home is pretty stable, but rh moves around a bit from visit to visit. Needs a pitch correction from around ±20¢ almost every visit, but I don't think it's a humidity thing. Piano sits in a well protected, (from the sun), south facing wall full of single pane small french windows. Customer is open to a string cover but is not comfortable with a dehumidifying D/C setup. My guess is that neither of these will actually solve this problem anyway because of the pianos proximity to that wall of glass. I think that the amount of temperature change on the left side of the piano that these single pane windows allow is actually the cause. Yes, she closes the curtains at night but they are fairly light. Don't offer much protection. No, she's not willing to move the piano. The room won't allow it.  My fantasy is to discover a device that keeps the plate at a more constant temperature. (* hah - sigh *) Hopefully you people here have some ideas on how to address this.

Thanks --

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

It would be good to take readings off the plate and case using a black and decker non contact thermometer. Humidity is the biggest cause of pianos going out of tune but there are other factors. It is a shame the piano can not be moved and sits there taking the daily dose of sun. A string cover is not a heat deflector but it is effective at keeping dust dirt objects from getting onto the soundboard and into the action. Two things might work - thermal curtains and reflective window films.

I have the same problem with a Knabe grand. It is directly under a skylight in a house right on the beach. I have measured temperature on various sections of the plate. The shaded left side is always 10-20 degrees cooler than the middle and treble. Customer will not move the piano A few feet to the right would do it but she refuses to listen

Dampp-Chaser could help some if  the r/h is outside the safety range in Damp Chaser's booklet

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-20-2022 10:32
From: Jon Page
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

The curtains may have reduced the heat affecting the piano but the infra-red and ultra-violet still penetrates to warm everything and fade the finish. Actually it removes the red in the finish and causes the plasticizers to off-gas and the finish cracks or powders off when rubbed.

Look at a piano near a window and you will see the case is different colors. Lift the lid to see the original color. The exposed side of the sharps can fade too.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-20-2022 10:03
From: Gary Messling
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

If the problem is heating caused by direct light, I discovered accidentally that sheer window curtains can eliminate the infrared heat through a window. This is totally anecdotal but here's the story.

After regularly tuning for the same customer's small grand located near a bay window for several years, I arrived one particularly sunny morning. On previous appointments, I must have been there during another season or another time of day and never noticed just how very warm (almost hot) the piano rim and lid were on this particular day.

I talked with the customer about the potential problems the heat might cause and during the conversation her husband entered the room after overhearing us. Without a word he stepped over to the windows and ceremoniously pulled the sheer curtain ties allowing the sheer curtains to completely drape over the windows. The piano case cooled almost instantly.

Now, I don't know if there was some special IR thing about their particular sheer curtains but that's my story...

Gary Messling

Original Message:
Sent: 10/19/2022 9:14:00 PM
From: Peter Grey
Subject: RE: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

The thickest heaviest quilted cover that reaches part way down the legs. That will insulate the structure from the radiant heat.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-19-2022 07:04
From: Jon Page
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

The radiant heat during the day and the cooler nights cause the piano to go out of tune daily. The only solution is to move the piano to another room. A DC and/or string cover won't eliminate the problem, only lessen it.  If she's not willing to relocate the piano, she has to live with the consequences. Floating the pitch is about all you can do for stability, since she obviously doesn't care about pitch.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-19-2022 00:43
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

Gorgeous Yamaha C7 from 1986. Biggest problem is stability. Temperature in the home is pretty stable, but rh moves around a bit from visit to visit. Needs a pitch correction from around ±20¢ almost every visit, but I don't think it's a humidity thing. Piano sits in a well protected, (from the sun), south facing wall full of single pane small french windows. Customer is open to a string cover but is not comfortable with a dehumidifying D/C setup. My guess is that neither of these will actually solve this problem anyway because of the pianos proximity to that wall of glass. I think that the amount of temperature change on the left side of the piano that these single pane windows allow is actually the cause. Yes, she closes the curtains at night but they are fairly light. Don't offer much protection. No, she's not willing to move the piano. The room won't allow it.  My fantasy is to discover a device that keeps the plate at a more constant temperature. (* hah - sigh *) Hopefully you people here have some ideas on how to address this.

Thanks --

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

James --

Reflective window films! That's a brilliant solution. I know the customer is not going to change the windows as they're all original glass and framing. But window films are practically invisible, easy to install and way cheaper than double glazed windows. I did window films on all the french windows in my home on all the S and W facing windows. The improvement in heat transfer from outside to inside was dramatic. Thanks!

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-21-2022 21:09
From: James Kelly
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

It would be good to take readings off the plate and case using a black and decker non contact thermometer. Humidity is the biggest cause of pianos going out of tune but there are other factors. It is a shame the piano can not be moved and sits there taking the daily dose of sun. A string cover is not a heat deflector but it is effective at keeping dust dirt objects from getting onto the soundboard and into the action. Two things might work - thermal curtains and reflective window films.

I have the same problem with a Knabe grand. It is directly under a skylight in a house right on the beach. I have measured temperature on various sections of the plate. The shaded left side is always 10-20 degrees cooler than the middle and treble. Customer will not move the piano A few feet to the right would do it but she refuses to listen

Dampp-Chaser could help some if  the r/h is outside the safety range in Damp Chaser's booklet

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 10-20-2022 10:32
From: Jon Page
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

The curtains may have reduced the heat affecting the piano but the infra-red and ultra-violet still penetrates to warm everything and fade the finish. Actually it removes the red in the finish and causes the plasticizers to off-gas and the finish cracks or powders off when rubbed.

Look at a piano near a window and you will see the case is different colors. Lift the lid to see the original color. The exposed side of the sharps can fade too.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-20-2022 10:03
From: Gary Messling
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

If the problem is heating caused by direct light, I discovered accidentally that sheer window curtains can eliminate the infrared heat through a window. This is totally anecdotal but here's the story.

After regularly tuning for the same customer's small grand located near a bay window for several years, I arrived one particularly sunny morning. On previous appointments, I must have been there during another season or another time of day and never noticed just how very warm (almost hot) the piano rim and lid were on this particular day.

I talked with the customer about the potential problems the heat might cause and during the conversation her husband entered the room after overhearing us. Without a word he stepped over to the windows and ceremoniously pulled the sheer curtain ties allowing the sheer curtains to completely drape over the windows. The piano case cooled almost instantly.

Now, I don't know if there was some special IR thing about their particular sheer curtains but that's my story...

Gary Messling

Original Message:
Sent: 10/19/2022 9:14:00 PM
From: Peter Grey
Subject: RE: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

The thickest heaviest quilted cover that reaches part way down the legs. That will insulate the structure from the radiant heat.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-19-2022 07:04
From: Jon Page
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

The radiant heat during the day and the cooler nights cause the piano to go out of tune daily. The only solution is to move the piano to another room. A DC and/or string cover won't eliminate the problem, only lessen it.  If she's not willing to relocate the piano, she has to live with the consequences. Floating the pitch is about all you can do for stability, since she obviously doesn't care about pitch.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-19-2022 00:43
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

Gorgeous Yamaha C7 from 1986. Biggest problem is stability. Temperature in the home is pretty stable, but rh moves around a bit from visit to visit. Needs a pitch correction from around ±20¢ almost every visit, but I don't think it's a humidity thing. Piano sits in a well protected, (from the sun), south facing wall full of single pane small french windows. Customer is open to a string cover but is not comfortable with a dehumidifying D/C setup. My guess is that neither of these will actually solve this problem anyway because of the pianos proximity to that wall of glass. I think that the amount of temperature change on the left side of the piano that these single pane windows allow is actually the cause. Yes, she closes the curtains at night but they are fairly light. Don't offer much protection. No, she's not willing to move the piano. The room won't allow it.  My fantasy is to discover a device that keeps the plate at a more constant temperature. (* hah - sigh *) Hopefully you people here have some ideas on how to address this.

Thanks --

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

Another thing to check in the room is the location of HVAC ducts and proximity to the piano. The vents can be moving air all around and under the piano. Worse are vents in the ceiling, floor or wall. Plastic register baffles can be used to re-direct the flow. In cold weather gas log fire places, pellet stoves, regular log fires can raise havoc with temp and r/h.   I think I would go with the window film and have thermal curtains at the worst time for the sun coming in. An undercover that Dampp Chaser sells will help with air movement under the piano. Finally it is worth having a data logger taking readings 24 x 7 for about 2 weeks. You will have detailed scientific data proving what the situation is 24x7. Place it on the plate if the sun is beating there. If lid is down most of the time put it there unless there are cats . You could also attach it to the case using Velcro

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-22-2022 11:40
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

James --

Reflective window films! That's a brilliant solution. I know the customer is not going to change the windows as they're all original glass and framing. But window films are practically invisible, easy to install and way cheaper than double glazed windows. I did window films on all the french windows in my home on all the S and W facing windows. The improvement in heat transfer from outside to inside was dramatic. Thanks!

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA

Original Message:
Sent: 10-21-2022 21:09
From: James Kelly
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

It would be good to take readings off the plate and case using a black and decker non contact thermometer. Humidity is the biggest cause of pianos going out of tune but there are other factors. It is a shame the piano can not be moved and sits there taking the daily dose of sun. A string cover is not a heat deflector but it is effective at keeping dust dirt objects from getting onto the soundboard and into the action. Two things might work - thermal curtains and reflective window films.

I have the same problem with a Knabe grand. It is directly under a skylight in a house right on the beach. I have measured temperature on various sections of the plate. The shaded left side is always 10-20 degrees cooler than the middle and treble. Customer will not move the piano A few feet to the right would do it but she refuses to listen

Dampp-Chaser could help some if  the r/h is outside the safety range in Damp Chaser's booklet

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 10-20-2022 10:32
From: Jon Page
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

The curtains may have reduced the heat affecting the piano but the infra-red and ultra-violet still penetrates to warm everything and fade the finish. Actually it removes the red in the finish and causes the plasticizers to off-gas and the finish cracks or powders off when rubbed.

Look at a piano near a window and you will see the case is different colors. Lift the lid to see the original color. The exposed side of the sharps can fade too.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-20-2022 10:03
From: Gary Messling
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

If the problem is heating caused by direct light, I discovered accidentally that sheer window curtains can eliminate the infrared heat through a window. This is totally anecdotal but here's the story.

After regularly tuning for the same customer's small grand located near a bay window for several years, I arrived one particularly sunny morning. On previous appointments, I must have been there during another season or another time of day and never noticed just how very warm (almost hot) the piano rim and lid were on this particular day.

I talked with the customer about the potential problems the heat might cause and during the conversation her husband entered the room after overhearing us. Without a word he stepped over to the windows and ceremoniously pulled the sheer curtain ties allowing the sheer curtains to completely drape over the windows. The piano case cooled almost instantly.

Now, I don't know if there was some special IR thing about their particular sheer curtains but that's my story...

Gary Messling

Original Message:
Sent: 10/19/2022 9:14:00 PM
From: Peter Grey
Subject: RE: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

The thickest heaviest quilted cover that reaches part way down the legs. That will insulate the structure from the radiant heat.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-19-2022 07:04
From: Jon Page
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

The radiant heat during the day and the cooler nights cause the piano to go out of tune daily. The only solution is to move the piano to another room. A DC and/or string cover won't eliminate the problem, only lessen it.  If she's not willing to relocate the piano, she has to live with the consequences. Floating the pitch is about all you can do for stability, since she obviously doesn't care about pitch.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-19-2022 00:43
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

Gorgeous Yamaha C7 from 1986. Biggest problem is stability. Temperature in the home is pretty stable, but rh moves around a bit from visit to visit. Needs a pitch correction from around ±20¢ almost every visit, but I don't think it's a humidity thing. Piano sits in a well protected, (from the sun), south facing wall full of single pane small french windows. Customer is open to a string cover but is not comfortable with a dehumidifying D/C setup. My guess is that neither of these will actually solve this problem anyway because of the pianos proximity to that wall of glass. I think that the amount of temperature change on the left side of the piano that these single pane windows allow is actually the cause. Yes, she closes the curtains at night but they are fairly light. Don't offer much protection. No, she's not willing to move the piano. The room won't allow it.  My fantasy is to discover a device that keeps the plate at a more constant temperature. (* hah - sigh *) Hopefully you people here have some ideas on how to address this.

Thanks --

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

James --

Even though the window faces S, it is seriously protected by trees. No direct sunlight ever hits this piano. They do draw the curtains at night, but they are not very heavy. Fireplace is on the other side of the room and never used. All vents anywhere near the piano have been kept closed for years. I like the idea of letting a data logger sit there for a couple of weeks. Guess it's time to change the batteries in mine. I also think that the undercover might help. Will look further into that. Thanks!

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-22-2022 13:56
From: James Kelly
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

Another thing to check in the room is the location of HVAC ducts and proximity to the piano. The vents can be moving air all around and under the piano. Worse are vents in the ceiling, floor or wall. Plastic register baffles can be used to re-direct the flow. In cold weather gas log fire places, pellet stoves, regular log fires can raise havoc with temp and r/h.   I think I would go with the window film and have thermal curtains at the worst time for the sun coming in. An undercover that Dampp Chaser sells will help with air movement under the piano. Finally it is worth having a data logger taking readings 24 x 7 for about 2 weeks. You will have detailed scientific data proving what the situation is 24x7. Place it on the plate if the sun is beating there. If lid is down most of the time put it there unless there are cats . You could also attach it to the case using Velcro

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 10-22-2022 11:40
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

James --

Reflective window films! That's a brilliant solution. I know the customer is not going to change the windows as they're all original glass and framing. But window films are practically invisible, easy to install and way cheaper than double glazed windows. I did window films on all the french windows in my home on all the S and W facing windows. The improvement in heat transfer from outside to inside was dramatic. Thanks!

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA

Original Message:
Sent: 10-21-2022 21:09
From: James Kelly
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

It would be good to take readings off the plate and case using a black and decker non contact thermometer. Humidity is the biggest cause of pianos going out of tune but there are other factors. It is a shame the piano can not be moved and sits there taking the daily dose of sun. A string cover is not a heat deflector but it is effective at keeping dust dirt objects from getting onto the soundboard and into the action. Two things might work - thermal curtains and reflective window films.

I have the same problem with a Knabe grand. It is directly under a skylight in a house right on the beach. I have measured temperature on various sections of the plate. The shaded left side is always 10-20 degrees cooler than the middle and treble. Customer will not move the piano A few feet to the right would do it but she refuses to listen

Dampp-Chaser could help some if  the r/h is outside the safety range in Damp Chaser's booklet

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 10-20-2022 10:32
From: Jon Page
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

The curtains may have reduced the heat affecting the piano but the infra-red and ultra-violet still penetrates to warm everything and fade the finish. Actually it removes the red in the finish and causes the plasticizers to off-gas and the finish cracks or powders off when rubbed.

Look at a piano near a window and you will see the case is different colors. Lift the lid to see the original color. The exposed side of the sharps can fade too.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-20-2022 10:03
From: Gary Messling
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

If the problem is heating caused by direct light, I discovered accidentally that sheer window curtains can eliminate the infrared heat through a window. This is totally anecdotal but here's the story.

After regularly tuning for the same customer's small grand located near a bay window for several years, I arrived one particularly sunny morning. On previous appointments, I must have been there during another season or another time of day and never noticed just how very warm (almost hot) the piano rim and lid were on this particular day.

I talked with the customer about the potential problems the heat might cause and during the conversation her husband entered the room after overhearing us. Without a word he stepped over to the windows and ceremoniously pulled the sheer curtain ties allowing the sheer curtains to completely drape over the windows. The piano case cooled almost instantly.

Now, I don't know if there was some special IR thing about their particular sheer curtains but that's my story...

Gary Messling

Original Message:
Sent: 10/19/2022 9:14:00 PM
From: Peter Grey
Subject: RE: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

The thickest heaviest quilted cover that reaches part way down the legs. That will insulate the structure from the radiant heat.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-19-2022 07:04
From: Jon Page
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

The radiant heat during the day and the cooler nights cause the piano to go out of tune daily. The only solution is to move the piano to another room. A DC and/or string cover won't eliminate the problem, only lessen it.  If she's not willing to relocate the piano, she has to live with the consequences. Floating the pitch is about all you can do for stability, since she obviously doesn't care about pitch.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-19-2022 00:43
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

Gorgeous Yamaha C7 from 1986. Biggest problem is stability. Temperature in the home is pretty stable, but rh moves around a bit from visit to visit. Needs a pitch correction from around ±20¢ almost every visit, but I don't think it's a humidity thing. Piano sits in a well protected, (from the sun), south facing wall full of single pane small french windows. Customer is open to a string cover but is not comfortable with a dehumidifying D/C setup. My guess is that neither of these will actually solve this problem anyway because of the pianos proximity to that wall of glass. I think that the amount of temperature change on the left side of the piano that these single pane windows allow is actually the cause. Yes, she closes the curtains at night but they are fairly light. Don't offer much protection. No, she's not willing to move the piano. The room won't allow it.  My fantasy is to discover a device that keeps the plate at a more constant temperature. (* hah - sigh *) Hopefully you people here have some ideas on how to address this.

Thanks --

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

Window films are good for heat but not for protecting the finish from fading.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-21-2022 21:09
From: James Kelly
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

It would be good to take readings off the plate and case using a black and decker non contact thermometer. Humidity is the biggest cause of pianos going out of tune but there are other factors. It is a shame the piano can not be moved and sits there taking the daily dose of sun. A string cover is not a heat deflector but it is effective at keeping dust dirt objects from getting onto the soundboard and into the action. Two things might work - thermal curtains and reflective window films.

I have the same problem with a Knabe grand. It is directly under a skylight in a house right on the beach. I have measured temperature on various sections of the plate. The shaded left side is always 10-20 degrees cooler than the middle and treble. Customer will not move the piano A few feet to the right would do it but she refuses to listen

Dampp-Chaser could help some if  the r/h is outside the safety range in Damp Chaser's booklet

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 10-20-2022 10:32
From: Jon Page
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

The curtains may have reduced the heat affecting the piano but the infra-red and ultra-violet still penetrates to warm everything and fade the finish. Actually it removes the red in the finish and causes the plasticizers to off-gas and the finish cracks or powders off when rubbed.

Look at a piano near a window and you will see the case is different colors. Lift the lid to see the original color. The exposed side of the sharps can fade too.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-20-2022 10:03
From: Gary Messling
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

If the problem is heating caused by direct light, I discovered accidentally that sheer window curtains can eliminate the infrared heat through a window. This is totally anecdotal but here's the story.

After regularly tuning for the same customer's small grand located near a bay window for several years, I arrived one particularly sunny morning. On previous appointments, I must have been there during another season or another time of day and never noticed just how very warm (almost hot) the piano rim and lid were on this particular day.

I talked with the customer about the potential problems the heat might cause and during the conversation her husband entered the room after overhearing us. Without a word he stepped over to the windows and ceremoniously pulled the sheer curtain ties allowing the sheer curtains to completely drape over the windows. The piano case cooled almost instantly.

Now, I don't know if there was some special IR thing about their particular sheer curtains but that's my story...

Gary Messling

Original Message:
Sent: 10/19/2022 9:14:00 PM
From: Peter Grey
Subject: RE: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

The thickest heaviest quilted cover that reaches part way down the legs. That will insulate the structure from the radiant heat.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-19-2022 07:04
From: Jon Page
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

The radiant heat during the day and the cooler nights cause the piano to go out of tune daily. The only solution is to move the piano to another room. A DC and/or string cover won't eliminate the problem, only lessen it.  If she's not willing to relocate the piano, she has to live with the consequences. Floating the pitch is about all you can do for stability, since she obviously doesn't care about pitch.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-19-2022 00:43
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: Dampp-Chaser vs string cover vs...?

Gorgeous Yamaha C7 from 1986. Biggest problem is stability. Temperature in the home is pretty stable, but rh moves around a bit from visit to visit. Needs a pitch correction from around ±20¢ almost every visit, but I don't think it's a humidity thing. Piano sits in a well protected, (from the sun), south facing wall full of single pane small french windows. Customer is open to a string cover but is not comfortable with a dehumidifying D/C setup. My guess is that neither of these will actually solve this problem anyway because of the pianos proximity to that wall of glass. I think that the amount of temperature change on the left side of the piano that these single pane windows allow is actually the cause. Yes, she closes the curtains at night but they are fairly light. Don't offer much protection. No, she's not willing to move the piano. The room won't allow it.  My fantasy is to discover a device that keeps the plate at a more constant temperature. (* hah - sigh *) Hopefully you people here have some ideas on how to address this.

Thanks --

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------