Pianotech

Longtime reader, first time poster. Please forgive any errors.

I recently encountered a Petrof Model V grand piano (~156cm, manufactured 2001) that had come from Southern California (I'm near Baton Rouge, LA), and had been stored while the customer located a new residence. When I first saw the piano, (October 2022), the customer sent me a pic (below) showing the melted adhesive rubber buttons on the front of the case stretcher, and subsequently, the fallboard. I was able to remove quite a bit of residue just by rubbing it with my thumb, but there is still sticky, gooey residue left. 
It's a high-gloss finish, and I'm wondering what solutions might be available to remove the residual deconstituted rubber?
The photo is from the customer, when they contacted me to service the piano. It was taken before I had visited the piano. I failed to get a pic after removing the greater part of the disintegrated rubber button.
Thank you!



------------------------------
Ray Moore
Piano Technician
Gonzales LA
------------------------------

Hi Ray:
This high gloss finish is probably polyester, so you could use practically any solvent to remove the residue.  I would try Goof-Off or some other similar solvent, then some buffing compound to bring up the shine.  It appears that the rubber wasn't vulcanized properly, which I've seen often.  If the finish is lacquer, I'd use Benzene or similar solvent which won't harm lacquer.

------------------------------
Paul McCloud, RPT
Accutone Piano Service
www.AccutonePianoService.com
pavadasa@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-07-2022 16:40
From: Ray Moore
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

Longtime reader, first time poster. Please forgive any errors.

I recently encountered a Petrof Model V grand piano (~156cm, manufactured 2001) that had come from Southern California (I'm near Baton Rouge, LA), and had been stored while the customer located a new residence. When I first saw the piano, (October 2022), the customer sent me a pic (below) showing the melted adhesive rubber buttons on the front of the case stretcher, and subsequently, the fallboard. I was able to remove quite a bit of residue just by rubbing it with my thumb, but there is still sticky, gooey residue left.
It's a high-gloss finish, and I'm wondering what solutions might be available to remove the residual deconstituted rubber?
The photo is from the customer, when they contacted me to service the piano. It was taken before I had visited the piano. I failed to get a pic after removing the greater part of the disintegrated rubber button.
Thank you!

------------------------------
Ray Moore
Piano Technician
Gonzales LA
------------------------------

I've used Goo-Gone before with good success. You could probably sell them new rubber buttons afterwards.

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(256) 947-9999
www.professional-piano-services.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-07-2022 16:40
From: Ray Moore
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

Longtime reader, first time poster. Please forgive any errors.

I recently encountered a Petrof Model V grand piano (~156cm, manufactured 2001) that had come from Southern California (I'm near Baton Rouge, LA), and had been stored while the customer located a new residence. When I first saw the piano, (October 2022), the customer sent me a pic (below) showing the melted adhesive rubber buttons on the front of the case stretcher, and subsequently, the fallboard. I was able to remove quite a bit of residue just by rubbing it with my thumb, but there is still sticky, gooey residue left.
It's a high-gloss finish, and I'm wondering what solutions might be available to remove the residual deconstituted rubber?
The photo is from the customer, when they contacted me to service the piano. It was taken before I had visited the piano. I failed to get a pic after removing the greater part of the disintegrated rubber button.
Thank you!

------------------------------
Ray Moore
Piano Technician
Gonzales LA
------------------------------

I was thinking Goo-Gone also, but using a hairdryer first to try to soften it up before using the Goo-Gone.

------------------------------
John Formsma
New Albany MS

"Sneak up on optimal."
--Ron Nossaman
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-07-2022 17:34
From: Benjamin Sanchez
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

I've used Goo-Gone before with good success. You could probably sell them new rubber buttons afterwards.

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(256) 947-9999
www.professional-piano-services.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-07-2022 16:40
From: Ray Moore
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

Longtime reader, first time poster. Please forgive any errors.

I recently encountered a Petrof Model V grand piano (~156cm, manufactured 2001) that had come from Southern California (I'm near Baton Rouge, LA), and had been stored while the customer located a new residence. When I first saw the piano, (October 2022), the customer sent me a pic (below) showing the melted adhesive rubber buttons on the front of the case stretcher, and subsequently, the fallboard. I was able to remove quite a bit of residue just by rubbing it with my thumb, but there is still sticky, gooey residue left.
It's a high-gloss finish, and I'm wondering what solutions might be available to remove the residual deconstituted rubber?
The photo is from the customer, when they contacted me to service the piano. It was taken before I had visited the piano. I failed to get a pic after removing the greater part of the disintegrated rubber button.
Thank you!

------------------------------
Ray Moore
Piano Technician
Gonzales LA
------------------------------

test whatever solvent you use in an inconspicuous spot you need to determine what the finish is so it is not destroyed by the solvent a brown replacement button will blend in better

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-07-2022 17:34
From: Benjamin Sanchez
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

I've used Goo-Gone before with good success. You could probably sell them new rubber buttons afterwards.

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(256) 947-9999
www.professional-piano-services.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-07-2022 16:40
From: Ray Moore
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

Longtime reader, first time poster. Please forgive any errors.

I recently encountered a Petrof Model V grand piano (~156cm, manufactured 2001) that had come from Southern California (I'm near Baton Rouge, LA), and had been stored while the customer located a new residence. When I first saw the piano, (October 2022), the customer sent me a pic (below) showing the melted adhesive rubber buttons on the front of the case stretcher, and subsequently, the fallboard. I was able to remove quite a bit of residue just by rubbing it with my thumb, but there is still sticky, gooey residue left.
It's a high-gloss finish, and I'm wondering what solutions might be available to remove the residual deconstituted rubber?
The photo is from the customer, when they contacted me to service the piano. It was taken before I had visited the piano. I failed to get a pic after removing the greater part of the disintegrated rubber button.
Thank you!

------------------------------
Ray Moore
Piano Technician
Gonzales LA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10/7/2022 7:46:00 PM
From: James Kelly
Subject: RE: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

test whatever solvent you use in an inconspicuous spot you need to determine what the finish is so it is not destroyed by the solvent a brown replacement button will blend in better

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-07-2022 17:34
From: Benjamin Sanchez
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

I've used Goo-Gone before with good success. You could probably sell them new rubber buttons afterwards.

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(256) 947-9999
www.professional-piano-services.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-07-2022 16:40
From: Ray Moore
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

Longtime reader, first time poster. Please forgive any errors.

I recently encountered a Petrof Model V grand piano (~156cm, manufactured 2001) that had come from Southern California (I'm near Baton Rouge, LA), and had been stored while the customer located a new residence. When I first saw the piano, (October 2022), the customer sent me a pic (below) showing the melted adhesive rubber buttons on the front of the case stretcher, and subsequently, the fallboard. I was able to remove quite a bit of residue just by rubbing it with my thumb, but there is still sticky, gooey residue left.
It's a high-gloss finish, and I'm wondering what solutions might be available to remove the residual deconstituted rubber?
The photo is from the customer, when they contacted me to service the piano. It was taken before I had visited the piano. I failed to get a pic after removing the greater part of the disintegrated rubber button.
Thank you!

------------------------------
Ray Moore
Piano Technician
Gonzales LA
------------------------------

It's polyester. You can tell just by looking at it. And no factory today or in the last 30-40 years would bother producing a high gloss finish with lacquer. It's WAY too much work. I'm sure Goo-Gone (or similar) will work fine to soften the rubber. 

However the hole sizes for the "buttons" may not match up well with our standard rubber replacements. You may need to get them directly from Petrof or one of their dealers. 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-08-2022 15:11
From: Gary Messling
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

Ray,

You've got some good advice so far but I agree with James and would first see if you can verify whether the finish is polyester or lacquer. Maybe someone here will know or maybe you can get info directly from Petrof.

Knowing the finish will give you a better idea of the solvent to use.

Gary Messling

Original Message:
Sent: 10/7/2022 7:46:00 PM
From: James Kelly
Subject: RE: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

test whatever solvent you use in an inconspicuous spot you need to determine what the finish is so it is not destroyed by the solvent a brown replacement button will blend in better

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 10-07-2022 17:34
From: Benjamin Sanchez
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

I've used Goo-Gone before with good success. You could probably sell them new rubber buttons afterwards.

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(256) 947-9999
www.professional-piano-services.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-07-2022 16:40
From: Ray Moore
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

Longtime reader, first time poster. Please forgive any errors.

I recently encountered a Petrof Model V grand piano (~156cm, manufactured 2001) that had come from Southern California (I'm near Baton Rouge, LA), and had been stored while the customer located a new residence. When I first saw the piano, (October 2022), the customer sent me a pic (below) showing the melted adhesive rubber buttons on the front of the case stretcher, and subsequently, the fallboard. I was able to remove quite a bit of residue just by rubbing it with my thumb, but there is still sticky, gooey residue left.
It's a high-gloss finish, and I'm wondering what solutions might be available to remove the residual deconstituted rubber?
The photo is from the customer, when they contacted me to service the piano. It was taken before I had visited the piano. I failed to get a pic after removing the greater part of the disintegrated rubber button.
Thank you!

------------------------------
Ray Moore
Piano Technician
Gonzales LA
------------------------------

Peter  I am not so sure that no lacquer is used today or in the last 30-40 years. I had been trained in dealer/technician piano prep on Petrof and Nordiska pianos at Geneva International and we addressed the issue of finish damage and repairs. I have also had extensive training in Polyester repairs . The number one takeaway is to ALWAYS test the finish so you know what it is an can have the proper equipment/supplies/knowledge. On the clear finishes you may need to use dyes or colors to touch up the veneers.

I had a nightmare poly repair job on a Yamaha C7 where the pedal prop rods/brackets had smashed the top of the pedal box. I thought it would be a file and sand using rex-lith but it would not stick even with fresh product. Took the lyre off and brought it to my repair guy. It was lacquer !! the lyre had to be stripped and new lacquer applied and brought up to a shine. This particular piano had been purchased at a store in Florida that had flooded out. It is also a practice to mix finishes on the same piano - polyester on the lid and rim, lacquer on legs.
I am not sure all goo gone is the same or what it will do to this particular finish and the rubber button. Use of a scappel blade and some warm heat might do it

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-09-2022 08:00
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

It's polyester. You can tell just by looking at it. And no factory today or in the last 30-40 years would bother producing a high gloss finish with lacquer. It's WAY too much work. I'm sure Goo-Gone (or similar) will work fine to soften the rubber.

However the hole sizes for the "buttons" may not match up well with our standard rubber replacements. You may need to get them directly from Petrof or one of their dealers.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-08-2022 15:11
From: Gary Messling
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

Ray,

You've got some good advice so far but I agree with James and would first see if you can verify whether the finish is polyester or lacquer. Maybe someone here will know or maybe you can get info directly from Petrof.

Knowing the finish will give you a better idea of the solvent to use.

Gary Messling

Original Message:
Sent: 10/7/2022 7:46:00 PM
From: James Kelly
Subject: RE: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

test whatever solvent you use in an inconspicuous spot you need to determine what the finish is so it is not destroyed by the solvent a brown replacement button will blend in better

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 10-07-2022 17:34
From: Benjamin Sanchez
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

I've used Goo-Gone before with good success. You could probably sell them new rubber buttons afterwards.

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(256) 947-9999
www.professional-piano-services.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-07-2022 16:40
From: Ray Moore
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

Longtime reader, first time poster. Please forgive any errors.

I recently encountered a Petrof Model V grand piano (~156cm, manufactured 2001) that had come from Southern California (I'm near Baton Rouge, LA), and had been stored while the customer located a new residence. When I first saw the piano, (October 2022), the customer sent me a pic (below) showing the melted adhesive rubber buttons on the front of the case stretcher, and subsequently, the fallboard. I was able to remove quite a bit of residue just by rubbing it with my thumb, but there is still sticky, gooey residue left.
It's a high-gloss finish, and I'm wondering what solutions might be available to remove the residual deconstituted rubber?
The photo is from the customer, when they contacted me to service the piano. It was taken before I had visited the piano. I failed to get a pic after removing the greater part of the disintegrated rubber button.
Thank you!

------------------------------
Ray Moore
Piano Technician
Gonzales LA
------------------------------

James,

I of course agree that wisdom says: "test". However notice that I said "no factory" blah blah blah. Certainly a repair/replacement situation would likely call for some lacquer. But production line?...I doubt it. So...use wisdom and test first before applying other chemicals.  

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-09-2022 13:35
From: James Kelly
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

Peter  I am not so sure that no lacquer is used today or in the last 30-40 years. I had been trained in dealer/technician piano prep on Petrof and Nordiska pianos at Geneva International and we addressed the issue of finish damage and repairs. I have also had extensive training in Polyester repairs . The number one takeaway is to ALWAYS test the finish so you know what it is an can have the proper equipment/supplies/knowledge. On the clear finishes you may need to use dyes or colors to touch up the veneers.

I had a nightmare poly repair job on a Yamaha C7 where the pedal prop rods/brackets had smashed the top of the pedal box. I thought it would be a file and sand using rex-lith but it would not stick even with fresh product. Took the lyre off and brought it to my repair guy. It was lacquer !! the lyre had to be stripped and new lacquer applied and brought up to a shine. This particular piano had been purchased at a store in Florida that had flooded out. It is also a practice to mix finishes on the same piano - polyester on the lid and rim, lacquer on legs.
I am not sure all goo gone is the same or what it will do to this particular finish and the rubber button. Use of a scappel blade and some warm heat might do it

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 10-09-2022 08:00
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

It's polyester. You can tell just by looking at it. And no factory today or in the last 30-40 years would bother producing a high gloss finish with lacquer. It's WAY too much work. I'm sure Goo-Gone (or similar) will work fine to soften the rubber.

However the hole sizes for the "buttons" may not match up well with our standard rubber replacements. You may need to get them directly from Petrof or one of their dealers.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-08-2022 15:11
From: Gary Messling
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

Ray,

You've got some good advice so far but I agree with James and would first see if you can verify whether the finish is polyester or lacquer. Maybe someone here will know or maybe you can get info directly from Petrof.

Knowing the finish will give you a better idea of the solvent to use.

Gary Messling

Original Message:
Sent: 10/7/2022 7:46:00 PM
From: James Kelly
Subject: RE: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

test whatever solvent you use in an inconspicuous spot you need to determine what the finish is so it is not destroyed by the solvent a brown replacement button will blend in better

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 10-07-2022 17:34
From: Benjamin Sanchez
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

I've used Goo-Gone before with good success. You could probably sell them new rubber buttons afterwards.

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(256) 947-9999
www.professional-piano-services.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-07-2022 16:40
From: Ray Moore
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

Longtime reader, first time poster. Please forgive any errors.

I recently encountered a Petrof Model V grand piano (~156cm, manufactured 2001) that had come from Southern California (I'm near Baton Rouge, LA), and had been stored while the customer located a new residence. When I first saw the piano, (October 2022), the customer sent me a pic (below) showing the melted adhesive rubber buttons on the front of the case stretcher, and subsequently, the fallboard. I was able to remove quite a bit of residue just by rubbing it with my thumb, but there is still sticky, gooey residue left.
It's a high-gloss finish, and I'm wondering what solutions might be available to remove the residual deconstituted rubber?
The photo is from the customer, when they contacted me to service the piano. It was taken before I had visited the piano. I failed to get a pic after removing the greater part of the disintegrated rubber button.
Thank you!

------------------------------
Ray Moore
Piano Technician
Gonzales LA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10/9/2022 1:36:00 PM
From: James Kelly
Subject: RE: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

Peter  I am not so sure that no lacquer is used today or in the last 30-40 years. I had been trained in dealer/technician piano prep on Petrof and Nordiska pianos at Geneva International and we addressed the issue of finish damage and repairs. I have also had extensive training in Polyester repairs . The number one takeaway is to ALWAYS test the finish so you know what it is an can have the proper equipment/supplies/knowledge. On the clear finishes you may need to use dyes or colors to touch up the veneers.

I had a nightmare poly repair job on a Yamaha C7 where the pedal prop rods/brackets had smashed the top of the pedal box. I thought it would be a file and sand using rex-lith but it would not stick even with fresh product. Took the lyre off and brought it to my repair guy. It was lacquer !! the lyre had to be stripped and new lacquer applied and brought up to a shine. This particular piano had been purchased at a store in Florida that had flooded out. It is also a practice to mix finishes on the same piano - polyester on the lid and rim, lacquer on legs.
I am not sure all goo gone is the same or what it will do to this particular finish and the rubber button. Use of a scappel blade and some warm heat might do it

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-09-2022 08:00
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

It's polyester. You can tell just by looking at it. And no factory today or in the last 30-40 years would bother producing a high gloss finish with lacquer. It's WAY too much work. I'm sure Goo-Gone (or similar) will work fine to soften the rubber.

However the hole sizes for the "buttons" may not match up well with our standard rubber replacements. You may need to get them directly from Petrof or one of their dealers.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-08-2022 15:11
From: Gary Messling
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

Ray,

You've got some good advice so far but I agree with James and would first see if you can verify whether the finish is polyester or lacquer. Maybe someone here will know or maybe you can get info directly from Petrof.

Knowing the finish will give you a better idea of the solvent to use.

Gary Messling

Original Message:
Sent: 10/7/2022 7:46:00 PM
From: James Kelly
Subject: RE: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

test whatever solvent you use in an inconspicuous spot you need to determine what the finish is so it is not destroyed by the solvent a brown replacement button will blend in better

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 10-07-2022 17:34
From: Benjamin Sanchez
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

I've used Goo-Gone before with good success. You could probably sell them new rubber buttons afterwards.

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(256) 947-9999
www.professional-piano-services.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-07-2022 16:40
From: Ray Moore
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

Longtime reader, first time poster. Please forgive any errors.

I recently encountered a Petrof Model V grand piano (~156cm, manufactured 2001) that had come from Southern California (I'm near Baton Rouge, LA), and had been stored while the customer located a new residence. When I first saw the piano, (October 2022), the customer sent me a pic (below) showing the melted adhesive rubber buttons on the front of the case stretcher, and subsequently, the fallboard. I was able to remove quite a bit of residue just by rubbing it with my thumb, but there is still sticky, gooey residue left.
It's a high-gloss finish, and I'm wondering what solutions might be available to remove the residual deconstituted rubber?
The photo is from the customer, when they contacted me to service the piano. It was taken before I had visited the piano. I failed to get a pic after removing the greater part of the disintegrated rubber button.
Thank you!

------------------------------
Ray Moore
Piano Technician
Gonzales LA
------------------------------

Thank you for that bit of info…good to know.

Les Koltvedt
(404) 631-7177
LKPianos.com


Original Message:
Sent: 10/9/2022 10:03:00 PM
From: Mark Schecter
Subject: RE: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

Just as a point of info, speaking of solvents and possible damage from their use, don't confuse GooGone with GoofOff. GoofOff is acetone & xylene, quite strong. GooGone is citrus-based so less corrosive, so if you're going to try things, try GooGone first - often that's all you need. It also says on the can, do not use on rubber, which tells me it's a solvent for rubber, maybe perfect for what you need. But test first! 

Mark Schecter, RPT

 | |   | | |   | |   | | |   | |   | | | 

Original Message:
Sent: 10/9/2022 1:36:00 PM
From: James Kelly
Subject: RE: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

Peter  I am not so sure that no lacquer is used today or in the last 30-40 years. I had been trained in dealer/technician piano prep on Petrof and Nordiska pianos at Geneva International and we addressed the issue of finish damage and repairs. I have also had extensive training in Polyester repairs . The number one takeaway is to ALWAYS test the finish so you know what it is an can have the proper equipment/supplies/knowledge. On the clear finishes you may need to use dyes or colors to touch up the veneers.

I had a nightmare poly repair job on a Yamaha C7 where the pedal prop rods/brackets had smashed the top of the pedal box. I thought it would be a file and sand using rex-lith but it would not stick even with fresh product. Took the lyre off and brought it to my repair guy. It was lacquer !! the lyre had to be stripped and new lacquer applied and brought up to a shine. This particular piano had been purchased at a store in Florida that had flooded out. It is also a practice to mix finishes on the same piano - polyester on the lid and rim, lacquer on legs.
I am not sure all goo gone is the same or what it will do to this particular finish and the rubber button. Use of a scappel blade and some warm heat might do it

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-09-2022 08:00
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

It's polyester. You can tell just by looking at it. And no factory today or in the last 30-40 years would bother producing a high gloss finish with lacquer. It's WAY too much work. I'm sure Goo-Gone (or similar) will work fine to soften the rubber.

However the hole sizes for the "buttons" may not match up well with our standard rubber replacements. You may need to get them directly from Petrof or one of their dealers.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-08-2022 15:11
From: Gary Messling
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

Ray,

You've got some good advice so far but I agree with James and would first see if you can verify whether the finish is polyester or lacquer. Maybe someone here will know or maybe you can get info directly from Petrof.

Knowing the finish will give you a better idea of the solvent to use.

Gary Messling

Original Message:
Sent: 10/7/2022 7:46:00 PM
From: James Kelly
Subject: RE: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

test whatever solvent you use in an inconspicuous spot you need to determine what the finish is so it is not destroyed by the solvent a brown replacement button will blend in better

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 10-07-2022 17:34
From: Benjamin Sanchez
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

I've used Goo-Gone before with good success. You could probably sell them new rubber buttons afterwards.

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(256) 947-9999
www.professional-piano-services.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-07-2022 16:40
From: Ray Moore
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

Longtime reader, first time poster. Please forgive any errors.

I recently encountered a Petrof Model V grand piano (~156cm, manufactured 2001) that had come from Southern California (I'm near Baton Rouge, LA), and had been stored while the customer located a new residence. When I first saw the piano, (October 2022), the customer sent me a pic (below) showing the melted adhesive rubber buttons on the front of the case stretcher, and subsequently, the fallboard. I was able to remove quite a bit of residue just by rubbing it with my thumb, but there is still sticky, gooey residue left.
It's a high-gloss finish, and I'm wondering what solutions might be available to remove the residual deconstituted rubber?
The photo is from the customer, when they contacted me to service the piano. It was taken before I had visited the piano. I failed to get a pic after removing the greater part of the disintegrated rubber button.
Thank you!

------------------------------
Ray Moore
Piano Technician
Gonzales LA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10/10/2022 6:54:00 AM
From: Leslie Koltvedt
Subject: RE: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

Thank you for that bit of info…good to know.

Les Koltvedt
(404) 631-7177
LKPianos.com


Original Message:
Sent: 10/9/2022 10:03:00 PM
From: Mark Schecter
Subject: RE: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

Just as a point of info, speaking of solvents and possible damage from their use, don't confuse GooGone with GoofOff. GoofOff is acetone & xylene, quite strong. GooGone is citrus-based so less corrosive, so if you're going to try things, try GooGone first - often that's all you need. It also says on the can, do not use on rubber, which tells me it's a solvent for rubber, maybe perfect for what you need. But test first! 

Mark Schecter, RPT

 | |   | | |   | |   | | |   | |   | | | 

Original Message:
Sent: 10/9/2022 1:36:00 PM
From: James Kelly
Subject: RE: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

Peter  I am not so sure that no lacquer is used today or in the last 30-40 years. I had been trained in dealer/technician piano prep on Petrof and Nordiska pianos at Geneva International and we addressed the issue of finish damage and repairs. I have also had extensive training in Polyester repairs . The number one takeaway is to ALWAYS test the finish so you know what it is an can have the proper equipment/supplies/knowledge. On the clear finishes you may need to use dyes or colors to touch up the veneers.

I had a nightmare poly repair job on a Yamaha C7 where the pedal prop rods/brackets had smashed the top of the pedal box. I thought it would be a file and sand using rex-lith but it would not stick even with fresh product. Took the lyre off and brought it to my repair guy. It was lacquer !! the lyre had to be stripped and new lacquer applied and brought up to a shine. This particular piano had been purchased at a store in Florida that had flooded out. It is also a practice to mix finishes on the same piano - polyester on the lid and rim, lacquer on legs.
I am not sure all goo gone is the same or what it will do to this particular finish and the rubber button. Use of a scappel blade and some warm heat might do it

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-09-2022 08:00
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

It's polyester. You can tell just by looking at it. And no factory today or in the last 30-40 years would bother producing a high gloss finish with lacquer. It's WAY too much work. I'm sure Goo-Gone (or similar) will work fine to soften the rubber.

However the hole sizes for the "buttons" may not match up well with our standard rubber replacements. You may need to get them directly from Petrof or one of their dealers.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-08-2022 15:11
From: Gary Messling
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

Ray,

You've got some good advice so far but I agree with James and would first see if you can verify whether the finish is polyester or lacquer. Maybe someone here will know or maybe you can get info directly from Petrof.

Knowing the finish will give you a better idea of the solvent to use.

Gary Messling

Original Message:
Sent: 10/7/2022 7:46:00 PM
From: James Kelly
Subject: RE: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

test whatever solvent you use in an inconspicuous spot you need to determine what the finish is so it is not destroyed by the solvent a brown replacement button will blend in better

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 10-07-2022 17:34
From: Benjamin Sanchez
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

I've used Goo-Gone before with good success. You could probably sell them new rubber buttons afterwards.

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(256) 947-9999
www.professional-piano-services.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-07-2022 16:40
From: Ray Moore
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

Longtime reader, first time poster. Please forgive any errors.

I recently encountered a Petrof Model V grand piano (~156cm, manufactured 2001) that had come from Southern California (I'm near Baton Rouge, LA), and had been stored while the customer located a new residence. When I first saw the piano, (October 2022), the customer sent me a pic (below) showing the melted adhesive rubber buttons on the front of the case stretcher, and subsequently, the fallboard. I was able to remove quite a bit of residue just by rubbing it with my thumb, but there is still sticky, gooey residue left.
It's a high-gloss finish, and I'm wondering what solutions might be available to remove the residual deconstituted rubber?
The photo is from the customer, when they contacted me to service the piano. It was taken before I had visited the piano. I failed to get a pic after removing the greater part of the disintegrated rubber button.
Thank you!

------------------------------
Ray Moore
Piano Technician
Gonzales LA
------------------------------

Hello all,

I heard from Zdeněk Sovák, Product Manager at Petrof.
He confirms that the high gloss finish is indeed polyester.
Thanks again for all your expert advice.



------------------------------
Ray Moore
Gonzales LA
(504) 638-1418
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-10-2022 12:35
From: Ray Moore
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

I would like to thank everyone for their excellent and experienced answers!

I assure everyone, I will find an inconspicuous spot to test FIRST.

Upon reading everyone's input, I remembered that I had had a contact at the Petrof organization - I had needed an odd piece for the mute rail mount on one of their vertical pianos - I will try emailing them and hopefully confirm the finish on this instrument. At the same time, I'll try to get some buttons - (hopefully properly vulcanized) these are adhesive buttons, not the "mushroom" or nail-head type that are in the Schaff assortment. 

I'll update this thread after I've heard from Petrof, as a courtesy.

Once again, THANKS EVERYONE!

Ray Moore 

Piano Technician

Gonzales LA

Original Message:
Sent: 10/10/2022 6:54:00 AM
From: Leslie Koltvedt
Subject: RE: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

Thank you for that bit of info…good to know.

Les Koltvedt
(404) 631-7177
LKPianos.com


Original Message:
Sent: 10/9/2022 10:03:00 PM
From: Mark Schecter
Subject: RE: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

Just as a point of info, speaking of solvents and possible damage from their use, don't confuse GooGone with GoofOff. GoofOff is acetone & xylene, quite strong. GooGone is citrus-based so less corrosive, so if you're going to try things, try GooGone first - often that's all you need. It also says on the can, do not use on rubber, which tells me it's a solvent for rubber, maybe perfect for what you need. But test first! 

Mark Schecter, RPT

 | |   | | |   | |   | | |   | |   | | | 

Original Message:
Sent: 10/9/2022 1:36:00 PM
From: James Kelly
Subject: RE: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

Peter  I am not so sure that no lacquer is used today or in the last 30-40 years. I had been trained in dealer/technician piano prep on Petrof and Nordiska pianos at Geneva International and we addressed the issue of finish damage and repairs. I have also had extensive training in Polyester repairs . The number one takeaway is to ALWAYS test the finish so you know what it is an can have the proper equipment/supplies/knowledge. On the clear finishes you may need to use dyes or colors to touch up the veneers.

I had a nightmare poly repair job on a Yamaha C7 where the pedal prop rods/brackets had smashed the top of the pedal box. I thought it would be a file and sand using rex-lith but it would not stick even with fresh product. Took the lyre off and brought it to my repair guy. It was lacquer !! the lyre had to be stripped and new lacquer applied and brought up to a shine. This particular piano had been purchased at a store in Florida that had flooded out. It is also a practice to mix finishes on the same piano - polyester on the lid and rim, lacquer on legs.
I am not sure all goo gone is the same or what it will do to this particular finish and the rubber button. Use of a scappel blade and some warm heat might do it

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 10-09-2022 08:00
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

It's polyester. You can tell just by looking at it. And no factory today or in the last 30-40 years would bother producing a high gloss finish with lacquer. It's WAY too much work. I'm sure Goo-Gone (or similar) will work fine to soften the rubber.

However the hole sizes for the "buttons" may not match up well with our standard rubber replacements. You may need to get them directly from Petrof or one of their dealers.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-08-2022 15:11
From: Gary Messling
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

Ray,

You've got some good advice so far but I agree with James and would first see if you can verify whether the finish is polyester or lacquer. Maybe someone here will know or maybe you can get info directly from Petrof.

Knowing the finish will give you a better idea of the solvent to use.

Gary Messling

Original Message:
Sent: 10/7/2022 7:46:00 PM
From: James Kelly
Subject: RE: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

test whatever solvent you use in an inconspicuous spot you need to determine what the finish is so it is not destroyed by the solvent a brown replacement button will blend in better

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 10-07-2022 17:34
From: Benjamin Sanchez
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

I've used Goo-Gone before with good success. You could probably sell them new rubber buttons afterwards.

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(256) 947-9999
www.professional-piano-services.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-07-2022 16:40
From: Ray Moore
Subject: Disintegrated (melted) Rubber Buttons

Longtime reader, first time poster. Please forgive any errors.

I recently encountered a Petrof Model V grand piano (~156cm, manufactured 2001) that had come from Southern California (I'm near Baton Rouge, LA), and had been stored while the customer located a new residence. When I first saw the piano, (October 2022), the customer sent me a pic (below) showing the melted adhesive rubber buttons on the front of the case stretcher, and subsequently, the fallboard. I was able to remove quite a bit of residue just by rubbing it with my thumb, but there is still sticky, gooey residue left.
It's a high-gloss finish, and I'm wondering what solutions might be available to remove the residual deconstituted rubber?
The photo is from the customer, when they contacted me to service the piano. It was taken before I had visited the piano. I failed to get a pic after removing the greater part of the disintegrated rubber button.
Thank you!

------------------------------
Ray Moore
Piano Technician
Gonzales LA
------------------------------