Further on strategy in the existing project, while a modest gain in brightness can be found by needling the mid-shoulders, thus better accessing the elasticity of the hammer material, is that a worth-while effort if it is anticipated that addition of hardener is going to be necessary to go the distance?
Original Message:
Sent: 10-17-2023 11:50
From: Floyd Gadd
Subject: Hot Rodding a 1988 Young Chang G-157
David,
Thank you so much for your engagement. So much of what I can do to benefit those whom I serve owes a great deal to the generosity of technicians, yourself included, who have been generous with knowledge--not only not stingy, but eager to do the work it takes to communicate effectively and helpfully.
Yes one of the elements that should have made it to my short-list above of tone-influencing factors is hammer selection itself.
And yes again, your past posts on low-profile hammers have been very much on my horizon. Your post immediately above gives me some helpful perspective on all of that.
I still have one set of 14 lb Ronsen Weickerts from Pianotek sitting in the wrapper on my shelf. Just for the fun of it, I'm going to list the grand pianos in our university collection at the bottom of this post, with the question of which of these pianos might be the most appropriate eventual destination for this set:
What might be a more workable choice of replacement hammer for our other Young Chang G-157?
University of Regina Grand Piano Inventory:
Young Chang G-157 1988 (2)
Yamaha G1 mid-1970s (3)
Yamaha C1 2000 (3)
Early 20th Century Gerhard Heintzman (5' 4") (1)
Early 20th Century Nordheimers (5' 8") (2)
Yamaha G2 1965/1970s (2)
Yamaha C2 1996 (5)
Yamaha G3 1965/1966 (2)
Yamaha C3 1969, 1977, 2010 (3)
Young Chang G-185 1988 (4)
Steinway A1 1893 (1)
Kawai GS-30 1981 (1)
Baldwin L 1965 (1)
Bösendorfer 200 - 1974 and 1975 (2)
Steinway B 1924/2004 Rebuild (1)
Yamaha CF 1986 (1)
Steinway D 1969 (1)
Mason & Hamlin CC 1977 (1)
Fazioli 278 2012 (1)
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Floyd Gadd RPT
Regina SK
(306) 502-9103
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Original Message:
Sent: 10-17-2023 01:05
From: David Love
Subject: Hot Rodding a 1988 Young Chang G-157
Floyd
I was reading through that discussion you posted the link to (from 2015). It was an interesting, sometimes contentious, discussion that addressed tension, spring rates, linear v non linear springs, coefficients of restitution, fun stuff!
At the time I was interested in using tension to achieve hammer stiffness by the ability to stretch the felt rather than "press" (or harden) the felt, especially using heat. It led to the making of the "low-profile" hammer which does achieve a level of stiffness that obviates the need for lacquer or other hardeners. But I couldn't get a consistent result in the manufacturing.
So now my voicing techniques focus on maintaining a high coefficient of restitution (COR an actual term when it comes to springs) in the hammer which basically means the speed and degree to which it springs back to its original form after it is compressed against the string. The degree will be connected to voicing stability. That's petty obvious. A hammer that doesn't return to its original form we could say plays or packs in, becomes more dense and the tone changes. We may or may not want that but generally stability is seen as a plus. The speed at which it returns affects hammer string contract time and the less contact time, the less filtering of, especially, high partials (see The Five Lectures on The Acoustics of the Piano for a demonstration and graphic representation of that).
So the idea was that a highly tensioned hammer achieved high a level of stiffness and a high COR-the best of both worlds without the use of chemicals.
Moreover, needling, or the use of chemicals, can compromise the integrity of the felt (needling) or the resilience (chemicals) which can compromises the COR affecting both stability and hammer string contact time. On the other hand, the use of chemicals stiffens they felt which prevents the hammer from compressing on the string as much which would filler out high partials and darken the tone so the tone gets brighter, This are different paths to a similar, though not identical, outcome.
When the hammer is too soft (too much compression) you don't have much choice but to stiffen it with the use of chemicals. As to what part of the hammer needs to be stiffened, I still believe that is the area between the strike point and the tip of the molding. I've never really found that stiffening the shoulders with a strong solution was that effective-unless, of course, it wicks under the crown. Obviously filing the hammers down and thinning the felt over the molding at the strike point also works. That also tends to reduce the weight of the hammer which gets it off the string faster filtering less high partial energy, so the tone gets brighter.
The bottom line is that there are different approaches that achieve similar, though, not identical, results and one has to choose at some point how you want to work or how you want to get there. But my general approach has been do no harm, or do as little harm as possible, to the integrity of the hammer because that ultimately affects the life of the hammer, something we should be mindful of.
I wish I had a better answer for you. We do have choices and those choices will move us in the direction we want, hopefully without unwanted consequences and I do think we should try and be aware of those consequences and make responsible choices that offer the least compromise to the integrity of the hammer. If we have to jump through hoops to get where we want, or do things that are, indeed, compromising, we've probably chosen the wrong hammer for that piano.
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David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320
Original Message:
Sent: 10-16-2023 17:49
From: Floyd Gadd
Subject: Hot Rodding a 1988 Young Chang G-157
Thanks David.
There's a photo that has lived in my imagination for years. I went looking for it today, and it turns out it came from you.
Does Lacquer Destroy Tension?
I'm trying to figure out the best order of operations in achieving an optimum tone. I installed a set of 14 lb Weickerts in a Kawai GS-30 some time back. The first thing I did after letting them play in a little was to add lacquer according to the Erwin/Negron Protocol:
Voicing the Ronsen Weickert special hammers
The results were satisfying, but the photo referenced above made me inclined to stop seeing hardeners as my first step.
In installed a set of Renner Blue Points, which also feature Weickert felt, in our Yamaha CF, and decided to work with shoulder needling before I pulled out my bottles of hardener. I didn't get where I wanted to go. I then did some hardening with B-72, which helped, but still did not take me the distance. I got a new perspective on the instrument when we brought on a new piano instructor, who suggested that the action was a way too heavy. I had, in fact, increased hammer weight in response to a misunderstanding of something that David Stanwood said in an online workshop I had watched. Bringing the hammers down to the Stanwood 7 strike weight zone was transformative. Pulling weight in a similar way off of the hammers of our Steinway D likewise resolved a long-standing voicing issue.
So I identified a field of factors that influenced my ability to find an appropriate tone -- the design of the resonance structures of the instrument, play-in time, hammer weight, strike point on the string, needle voicing and hardeners are the main players to which I am giving my attention.
I understand the tension characteristics of the Ronsen Weickerts to be a prime feature of their design, so I am inclined to put off the addition of hardeners until I've worked with the less invasive options. Earlier this month I pulled a signficant amount of weight off of the hammers. I did some mid-shoulder needling on a sample hammer this morning, and it nudged me ever so slightly in the right direction, so I'm going to go there next. As I mentioned above, play-in has been hampered by poor reception of the piano by our students--not that I blame them, given how it was with the hammers before I lightened them--together with the availability of a sufficient number of grand pianos in our practice area that allowed them to avoid it. My inclination right now is to do some shoulder needling, allow some more playing-in, and probably to add some hardener a little down the road.
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Floyd Gadd RPT
Regina SK
(306) 502-9103
Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2023 10:07
From: David Love
Subject: Hot Rodding a 1988 Young Chang G-157
It will eventually brighten up if it's a practice room piano but a Ronsen hammer is a bit soft for a young chang which demands a somewhat firmer hammer usually. I usually find that the center can be left alone more than the top section or the bass in terms of balance I still prefer Pianotek's Pianolac (not sure if Schaff is selling that) as the go to stiffener because it's soft setting, meaning it doesn't get that "crystalline" sound.
I'd make a 25% solution with lacquer thinner and put it right on the crown from about F5 to the top. Do it with drops and watch and stop once the liquid just penetrates to the top of the molding
In the bass put three or four drops on the crown if you want to bring up the midrange some make a 15-20% solution and apply the same way as the treble.
Lightly sugar coat the crown as needed to smooth things out
That should give the hammers enough of a head start to allow them to develop without getting harsh.
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David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320