Pianotech

Does anyone still have a 2001 Piano Book Price Supplement?
I'd like to know the MSRP for a K-30 in 2001.

And also any opinions about a fair person-to-person sale price today for a K-30 in excellent condition.

Some friends want to buy a piano for their grandson, and I want to be sure their generosity is not taken advantage of in this purchase.

Thanks!

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------

Hi Ed,
I couldn't find  a 2001 but I found my 2002-2003 version
It lists Polished Ebony at $6390, Mahogany at $7390 and polished mahogany $7590. 

I generally tell clients that private party sales can expect half of what a dealer might sell the same piano for. So I would guess $1500-2000 would be a pretty fair range if it is indeed in excellent shape, and perhaps half of that if it has some normal wear and tear. 


------------------------------
Ryan Sowers RPT
Olympia WA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-26-2022 11:14
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: Kawai K-30 Fair Price?

Does anyone still have a 2001 Piano Book Price Supplement?
I'd like to know the MSRP for a K-30 in 2001.

And also any opinions about a fair person-to-person sale price today for a K-30 in excellent condition.

Some friends want to buy a piano for their grandson, and I want to be sure their generosity is not taken advantage of in this purchase.

Thanks!

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------

Ryan-
Thank you, that's very helpful.

We have a peculiar used piano market in the Research Triangle.
A used piano hustler with moving equipment purchases the best low-priced Craigslist pianos as soon as they are listed, then re-lists them at high prices with "free tuning and delivery." This fills Craigslist with high priced original listings and his high-priced "flip" listings, plus junk spinets and uprights.

I've advised my friends to offer a much lower price and keep looking. The K-30 has been listed at $5000 for at least a month, and is not likely going anywhere.
Ed

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-26-2022 14:51
From: Ryan Sowers
Subject: Kawai K-30 Fair Price?

Hi Ed,
I couldn't find  a 2001 but I found my 2002-2003 version
It lists Polished Ebony at $6390, Mahogany at $7390 and polished mahogany $7590.

I generally tell clients that private party sales can expect half of what a dealer might sell the same piano for. So I would guess $1500-2000 would be a pretty fair range if it is indeed in excellent shape, and perhaps half of that if it has some normal wear and tear.


------------------------------
Ryan Sowers RPT
Olympia WA

Original Message:
Sent: 08-26-2022 11:14
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: Kawai K-30 Fair Price?

Does anyone still have a 2001 Piano Book Price Supplement?
I'd like to know the MSRP for a K-30 in 2001.

And also any opinions about a fair person-to-person sale price today for a K-30 in excellent condition.

Some friends want to buy a piano for their grandson, and I want to be sure their generosity is not taken advantage of in this purchase.

Thanks!

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------

Sorry Mr. Sutton but I really need to offer a translation of your recent post.

"A used piano hustler with moving equipment purchases the best low-priced Craigslist pianos as soon as they are listed, then re-lists them at high prices with "free tuning and delivery." This fills Craigslist with high priced original listings and his high-priced "flip" listings, plus junk spinets and uprights."

Translation:
An energetic entrepreneur operating their own tuning and moving business monitors the secondary market closely and takes advantage of opportunities that other market players frequently miss. In doing so they also help to buoy the market price for all pianos new and used.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-27-2022 08:17
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: Kawai K-30 Fair Price?

Ryan-
Thank you, that's very helpful.

We have a peculiar used piano market in the Research Triangle.
A used piano hustler with moving equipment purchases the best low-priced Craigslist pianos as soon as they are listed, then re-lists them at high prices with "free tuning and delivery." This fills Craigslist with high priced original listings and his high-priced "flip" listings, plus junk spinets and uprights.

I've advised my friends to offer a much lower price and keep looking. The K-30 has been listed at $5000 for at least a month, and is not likely going anywhere.
Ed

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413

Original Message:
Sent: 08-26-2022 14:51
From: Ryan Sowers
Subject: Kawai K-30 Fair Price?

Hi Ed,
I couldn't find  a 2001 but I found my 2002-2003 version
It lists Polished Ebony at $6390, Mahogany at $7390 and polished mahogany $7590.

I generally tell clients that private party sales can expect half of what a dealer might sell the same piano for. So I would guess $1500-2000 would be a pretty fair range if it is indeed in excellent shape, and perhaps half of that if it has some normal wear and tear.


------------------------------
Ryan Sowers RPT
Olympia WA

Original Message:
Sent: 08-26-2022 11:14
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: Kawai K-30 Fair Price?

Does anyone still have a 2001 Piano Book Price Supplement?
I'd like to know the MSRP for a K-30 in 2001.

And also any opinions about a fair person-to-person sale price today for a K-30 in excellent condition.

Some friends want to buy a piano for their grandson, and I want to be sure their generosity is not taken advantage of in this purchase.

Thanks!

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------

Karl Roeder went:
"A used piano hustler with moving equipment purchases the best low-priced Craigslist pianos as soon as they are listed, then re-lists them at high prices with "free tuning and delivery." This fills Craigslist with high priced original listings and his high-priced "flip" listings, plus junk spinets and uprights."

Translation:
An energetic entrepreneur operating their own tuning and moving business monitors the secondary market closely and takes advantage of opportunities that other market players frequently miss. In doing so they also help to buoy the market price for all pianos new and used.

Is this a great country or what! Imaginative free-enterprise is the engine of our economy, which is the greatest in the world, and don't you forget it! At least the arbitrage is in real goods, not abstract financial instruments. Totally whatever…… <G>

------------------------------
William Ballard RPT
WBPS
Saxtons River VT
802-869-9107

"Our lives contain a thousand springs
and dies if one be gone
Strange that a harp of a thousand strings
should keep in tune so long."
...........Dr. Watts, "The Continental Harmony,1774
+++++++++++++++++++++
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-27-2022 09:02
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: Kawai K-30 Fair Price?

Sorry Mr. Sutton but I really need to offer a translation of your recent post.

"A used piano hustler with moving equipment purchases the best low-priced Craigslist pianos as soon as they are listed, then re-lists them at high prices with "free tuning and delivery." This fills Craigslist with high priced original listings and his high-priced "flip" listings, plus junk spinets and uprights."

Translation:
An energetic entrepreneur operating their own tuning and moving business monitors the secondary market closely and takes advantage of opportunities that other market players frequently miss. In doing so they also help to buoy the market price for all pianos new and used.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL

Original Message:
Sent: 08-27-2022 08:17
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: Kawai K-30 Fair Price?

Ryan-
Thank you, that's very helpful.

We have a peculiar used piano market in the Research Triangle.
A used piano hustler with moving equipment purchases the best low-priced Craigslist pianos as soon as they are listed, then re-lists them at high prices with "free tuning and delivery." This fills Craigslist with high priced original listings and his high-priced "flip" listings, plus junk spinets and uprights.

I've advised my friends to offer a much lower price and keep looking. The K-30 has been listed at $5000 for at least a month, and is not likely going anywhere.
Ed

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413

Original Message:
Sent: 08-26-2022 14:51
From: Ryan Sowers
Subject: Kawai K-30 Fair Price?

Hi Ed,
I couldn't find  a 2001 but I found my 2002-2003 version
It lists Polished Ebony at $6390, Mahogany at $7390 and polished mahogany $7590.

I generally tell clients that private party sales can expect half of what a dealer might sell the same piano for. So I would guess $1500-2000 would be a pretty fair range if it is indeed in excellent shape, and perhaps half of that if it has some normal wear and tear.


------------------------------
Ryan Sowers RPT
Olympia WA

Original Message:
Sent: 08-26-2022 11:14
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: Kawai K-30 Fair Price?

Does anyone still have a 2001 Piano Book Price Supplement?
I'd like to know the MSRP for a K-30 in 2001.

And also any opinions about a fair person-to-person sale price today for a K-30 in excellent condition.

Some friends want to buy a piano for their grandson, and I want to be sure their generosity is not taken advantage of in this purchase.

Thanks!

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------

Yes, I understand basic economics.
However, it would be nice if the "free tunings" were real tunings and the stories about the pianos were reasonably true.

We have a dealer here who offers real reconditioned, tuned used pianos, with true evaluations and really guarantees them.
I have been happy to do service calls for them.
------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-27-2022 09:02
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: Kawai K-30 Fair Price?

Sorry Mr. Sutton but I really need to offer a translation of your recent post.

"A used piano hustler with moving equipment purchases the best low-priced Craigslist pianos as soon as they are listed, then re-lists them at high prices with "free tuning and delivery." This fills Craigslist with high priced original listings and his high-priced "flip" listings, plus junk spinets and uprights."

Translation:
An energetic entrepreneur operating their own tuning and moving business monitors the secondary market closely and takes advantage of opportunities that other market players frequently miss. In doing so they also help to buoy the market price for all pianos new and used.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL

Original Message:
Sent: 08-27-2022 08:17
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: Kawai K-30 Fair Price?

Ryan-
Thank you, that's very helpful.

We have a peculiar used piano market in the Research Triangle.
A used piano hustler with moving equipment purchases the best low-priced Craigslist pianos as soon as they are listed, then re-lists them at high prices with "free tuning and delivery." This fills Craigslist with high priced original listings and his high-priced "flip" listings, plus junk spinets and uprights.

I've advised my friends to offer a much lower price and keep looking. The K-30 has been listed at $5000 for at least a month, and is not likely going anywhere.
Ed

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413

Original Message:
Sent: 08-26-2022 14:51
From: Ryan Sowers
Subject: Kawai K-30 Fair Price?

Hi Ed,
I couldn't find  a 2001 but I found my 2002-2003 version
It lists Polished Ebony at $6390, Mahogany at $7390 and polished mahogany $7590.

I generally tell clients that private party sales can expect half of what a dealer might sell the same piano for. So I would guess $1500-2000 would be a pretty fair range if it is indeed in excellent shape, and perhaps half of that if it has some normal wear and tear.


------------------------------
Ryan Sowers RPT
Olympia WA

Original Message:
Sent: 08-26-2022 11:14
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: Kawai K-30 Fair Price?

Does anyone still have a 2001 Piano Book Price Supplement?
I'd like to know the MSRP for a K-30 in 2001.

And also any opinions about a fair person-to-person sale price today for a K-30 in excellent condition.

Some friends want to buy a piano for their grandson, and I want to be sure their generosity is not taken advantage of in this purchase.

Thanks!

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------

If I had that piano for sale, it would be around $4500 (reconditioned), 1 tuning/moving/sales tax included. Using the "60 year rule", being 20 y/o it is worth in the vicinity of ⅔ of new retail in show room condition. That is, if I dealt in verticals anymore...how about a nice Steinway grand? Basically, it's worth what it doesn't need.

A serious buyer should expect to pay around $3K for it.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-26-2022 11:14
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: Kawai K-30 Fair Price?

Does anyone still have a 2001 Piano Book Price Supplement?
I'd like to know the MSRP for a K-30 in 2001.

And also any opinions about a fair person-to-person sale price today for a K-30 in excellent condition.

Some friends want to buy a piano for their grandson, and I want to be sure their generosity is not taken advantage of in this purchase.

Thanks!

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------

Jon, thank you.
$3000 is what I suggested to my friends.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-27-2022 09:22
From: Jon Page
Subject: Kawai K-30 Fair Price?

If I had that piano for sale, it would be around $4500 (reconditioned), 1 tuning/moving/sales tax included. Using the "60 year rule", being 20 y/o it is worth in the vicinity of ⅔ of new retail in show room condition. That is, if I dealt in verticals anymore...how about a nice Steinway grand? Basically, it's worth what it doesn't need.

A serious buyer should expect to pay around $3K for it.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 08-26-2022 11:14
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: Kawai K-30 Fair Price?

Does anyone still have a 2001 Piano Book Price Supplement?
I'd like to know the MSRP for a K-30 in 2001.

And also any opinions about a fair person-to-person sale price today for a K-30 in excellent condition.

Some friends want to buy a piano for their grandson, and I want to be sure their generosity is not taken advantage of in this purchase.

Thanks!

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------

When it comes to buying a piano for someone, I recommend that the recipient go and play the piano first. The parents need to see if they want that furniture style in their house and the student needs to play it to see if they like the touch. I liken it to purchasing someone a pair of shoes or such, they have to be tried on and viewed.  The gift/surprise is the offer and process to purchase rather than an actual purchase.  They might have to preview several pianos before all involved are happy with the choice.

Is the recipient a serious student, a budding wannbe; or worse yet, "You're going to take piano lessons...".
It would be unfortunate if the instrument were purchased and a reluctant student hates to practice and quits soon afterward and the piano sits idle.
All too often, ambition does not rise to meet intention. I see it all the time with retired people and piano purchases.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-26-2022 11:14
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: Kawai K-30 Fair Price?

Does anyone still have a 2001 Piano Book Price Supplement?
I'd like to know the MSRP for a K-30 in 2001.

And also any opinions about a fair person-to-person sale price today for a K-30 in excellent condition.

Some friends want to buy a piano for their grandson, and I want to be sure their generosity is not taken advantage of in this purchase.

Thanks!

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------

Jon-

I've arranged for the grandfather and grandson to play six different pianos, and am showing them how to feel and describe touchweight and dynamic response, and helping them become more aware of voicing and bass string timbre.
It's not that hard for people to learn once you've given them a vocabulary to describe the experience.

The K-30 had a heavy, unresponsive action. It couldn't be played dependably at p or pp. This wasn't just a matter of hammer voicing. The action just didn't work with a quiet touch.
I haven't seen recent Kawai verticals, but this seems to me to be a design characteristic of Kawai verticals, at least of the 1980s, 1990s, and early 2000s.

When I meet such pianos I think "I wouldn't enjoy playing this piano if it was mine." 
I wonder what was the story of the person who failed to learn to play on this piano.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-27-2022 10:38
From: Jon Page
Subject: Kawai K-30 Fair Price?

When it comes to buying a piano for someone, I recommend that the recipient go and play the piano first. The parents need to see if they want that furniture style in their house and the student needs to play it to see if they like the touch. I liken it to purchasing someone a pair of shoes or such, they have to be tried on and viewed.  The gift/surprise is the offer and process to purchase rather than an actual purchase.  They might have to preview several pianos before all involved are happy with the choice.

Is the recipient a serious student, a budding wannbe; or worse yet, "You're going to take piano lessons...".
It would be unfortunate if the instrument were purchased and a reluctant student hates to practice and quits soon afterward and the piano sits idle.
All too often, ambition does not rise to meet intention. I see it all the time with retired people and piano purchases.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 08-26-2022 11:14
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: Kawai K-30 Fair Price?

Does anyone still have a 2001 Piano Book Price Supplement?
I'd like to know the MSRP for a K-30 in 2001.

And also any opinions about a fair person-to-person sale price today for a K-30 in excellent condition.

Some friends want to buy a piano for their grandson, and I want to be sure their generosity is not taken advantage of in this purchase.

Thanks!

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------

>I wonder what was the story of the person who failed to learn to play on this piano.

The salesman told them it would lighten up after playing for a while.
It's only a heavy touch because it's new and not action geometry/friction issues (as if they knew).

Glad to know you're instructing them.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-27-2022 14:48
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: Kawai K-30 Fair Price?

Jon-

I've arranged for the grandfather and grandson to play six different pianos, and am showing them how to feel and describe touchweight and dynamic response, and helping them become more aware of voicing and bass string timbre.
It's not that hard for people to learn once you've given them a vocabulary to describe the experience.

The K-30 had a heavy, unresponsive action. It couldn't be played dependably at p or pp. This wasn't just a matter of hammer voicing. The action just didn't work with a quiet touch.
I haven't seen recent Kawai verticals, but this seems to me to be a design characteristic of Kawai verticals, at least of the 1980s, 1990s, and early 2000s.

When I meet such pianos I think "I wouldn't enjoy playing this piano if it was mine."
I wonder what was the story of the person who failed to learn to play on this piano.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413

Original Message:
Sent: 08-27-2022 10:38
From: Jon Page
Subject: Kawai K-30 Fair Price?

When it comes to buying a piano for someone, I recommend that the recipient go and play the piano first. The parents need to see if they want that furniture style in their house and the student needs to play it to see if they like the touch. I liken it to purchasing someone a pair of shoes or such, they have to be tried on and viewed.  The gift/surprise is the offer and process to purchase rather than an actual purchase.  They might have to preview several pianos before all involved are happy with the choice.

Is the recipient a serious student, a budding wannbe; or worse yet, "You're going to take piano lessons...".
It would be unfortunate if the instrument were purchased and a reluctant student hates to practice and quits soon afterward and the piano sits idle.
All too often, ambition does not rise to meet intention. I see it all the time with retired people and piano purchases.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 08-26-2022 11:14
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: Kawai K-30 Fair Price?

Does anyone still have a 2001 Piano Book Price Supplement?
I'd like to know the MSRP for a K-30 in 2001.

And also any opinions about a fair person-to-person sale price today for a K-30 in excellent condition.

Some friends want to buy a piano for their grandson, and I want to be sure their generosity is not taken advantage of in this purchase.

Thanks!

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------