Pianotech

  • 1.  Muffling a grand piano

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-26-2022 20:27
    Hi,

    I'm looking for some ideas about reducing the volume of a grand piano. A search of this website found discussions about the Steven James Grand Piano Muffler. Are there any other suggestions? The client asked about using a string cover, and/or putting foam on the underside of the soundboard with adhesive. Would either of those work well? Will the adhesive be a problem to remove later on?

    The client also needs to do something about the acoustics of room, but I would like to keep that as a separate topic. Filing and voicing the hammers is another thing that needs to be done, or replacing the hammers altogether.

    Thank you,

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    Norman Dutton RPT
    Pacifica CA
    (650) 291-2725
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  • 2.  RE: Muffling a grand piano

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-26-2022 20:50
    Hi Norman:
    Years ago, we used to install player systems in some pianos we sold.  First complaint was, "It's too loud.  How can we turn it down?".  The system wouldn't go below a certain volume without notes dropping out, so we used to cut acoustic foam and fit it in between the beams underneath.  The reduction was about 15%.  Judi Edwards used to make string covers, and they used to have an acoustic foam cover that fit above the strings.  I don't think it worked much better, maybe about 25%.  Another idea that I saw an owner do is to cut a piece of felt to lie upon the speaking length of the strings.  It did cut the sound, maybe a little more, with little sustain.  To cut a substantial amount of sound, you would need some mass-loaded vinyl soundproofing applied across the bottom of the piano.  That would eliminate about 50% of the sound,  It's heavy and expensive, but is really effective in blocking sound.  It's often used to soundproof luxury car interiors or custom cars.  Foam is sound absorbing, but doesn't block it, and is very limited in what you can expect from it.  If you could force the foam against the board, that could possibly work to dampen the vibrations.  Using adhesive would be messy if you had to remove it, Your call.
    Good luck.  Let us know if/what you did, and what was the result.
    Best,
    Paul McCloud

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    Paul McCloud, RPT
    Accutone Piano Service
    www.AccutonePianoService.com
    pavadasa@gmail.com
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    Original Message


  • 3.  RE: Muffling a grand piano

    Posted 09-26-2022 20:59
    Thick cushion foam from a fabric store. Cut over-size wedges to pressure-fit between the beams. No glue required, don't press them against the bottom of the s/b.

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    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
    http://www.pianocapecod.com
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    Original Message


  • 4.  RE: Muffling a grand piano

    Member
    Posted 09-26-2022 22:44
    String covers will do very little to lower the volume of the piano. You really need to look at the room acoustics for example are there high ceilings, lots of windows, tile floors, hardwood floors ? How much furniture is in the room and what kind is it - large overstuffed/padded furniture or sparse simple furniture. Carpets can help lower the volume especially a carpet with padding under the piano. There are a number of companies that sell products that can be placed on walls, floors even free standing. I believe one company by the name of Soundex can help recommend solutions - you send the room dimensions etc.

    I am working with a client now who has a problem with the volume on her Young Chang that has an early generation Piano Disc system. If you try to set the volume controls low you get what is called drop out. Newer systems have much better calibration software and volumes can be adjusted to almost whisper quiet because of power off set
    setting in the calibration software . In any event I am going to be using some acoustical foam in the beams to see what effect it has plus using the remote control that allows more volume control than the player unit. We may end up with wall panels or even placing some of the foam in places around the room. I will look up the company I purchased the foam from and post the name and link. You can download a free booklet on acoustics and acoustic treatments.

    What size piano is this and where in the room is it ? Sometimes moving the piano around in a room will give you a different sound and volume. The hammers could be voiced down with needles but you could also kill them so best to hold off on something like that.

    BTW heavy drapes, pillows etc will also absorb sound

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    James Kelly
    Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
    Pawleys Island SC
    (843) 325-4357
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    Original Message


  • 5.  RE: Muffling a grand piano

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-26-2022 23:40

    I find a thick rug / carpet to be effective in a lot of in-home scenarios. I've never tried the foam but known a colleague who had limited success with it.

    I'm curious, is the client actually annoyed at the volume, or is it the brightness? Most of the complaints I get about a piano that's too loud end up being about brightness. Most people don't mind that it's too loud as long as it's not too painful to listen to at loud volumes. Maybe something to consider. 

    Also, what type of piano is it?



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    Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
    Piano Technician / Artisan
    (256) 947-9999
    www.professional-piano-services.com
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    Original Message


  • 6.  RE: Muffling a grand piano

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-27-2022 00:41
    A string cover won't do anything for sound. You can put foam baffles underneath, that helps a bit but you'll have to cut them yourself from 4 inch foam. An electric knife works really well but it's  kind of a hassle. You have to make your own templates, I don't know anybody who does this anymore. Of course voicing the hammers will help too or having the customer play the piano with the lid closed and the music desk on top if they need it. A new set of hammers also works if you use the right kind of hammers.  I'd probably opt for a Ronson bacon fielt or something soft like that. What kind of piano is it?

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    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
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    Original Message


  • 7.  RE: Muffling a grand piano

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-27-2022 02:32
    I have a customer with a teaching studio in an office with several small private rooms, one of which has a small grand piano.  The piano tends to overwhelm the room and I was asked to quieten it.  Voicing it down wasn't nearly enough.  I inserted thick foam blocks between the beams and rim underneath but that only reduced the volume a bit more.  In the end we had packed towels over the strings, foam under the lid and a heavy blanket over the top and the volume was still a bit too loud.
    Good luck!

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    Blaine Hebert RPT
    Duarte CA
    (626) 795-5170
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    Original Message


  • 8.  RE: Muffling a grand piano

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-27-2022 07:51
    I have used thick cardboard to muffle grand pianos many times.  Use cardboard like a grand piano is shipped in, and cut it to match the underside of the piano.  
    Takes a little doing, but not as hard as you might imagine.  You can cover the edges with glue-backed postal tape and even spray paint it black if if will be visible (if it's at the top of a flight of stairs as the last one I did), then staple or tack it to the underside of the rim and support posts. Makes a huge difference.
    Also, tell them to close the lid completely and place the music desk on the top.  You can put a quilt (or two)inside above the strings like a string cover, and maybe another thick quilt over the whole top and under the music desk that you've now put up there.
    I've also done this several times for vertical pianos. Just the back - nothing inside. They are much easier!

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    [Danny] [Lyons] [RPT]]
    [Pensacola] [FL]
    [dannylyons21@gmail.com]
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    Original Message


  • 9.  RE: Muffling a grand piano

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-27-2022 18:20
    Thank you for all the suggestions. The piano is a Steinway L or O. I think it's an O, but it's been rebuilt by somebody who didn't put the model on the plate. At least they put the serial number on it.

    It would be great if they would put new hammers on the piano, but I doubt they will. They will probably go for foam blocks. I don't know if the store is still in business, but there was a foam store in SF that had a wide variety of foam, and would cut it to your specs.

    The acoustics of the room are horrible. It's a lobby, and is very live. If there were ten people in the room talking, it would be hard to hear the person you were trying to converse with. It would make sense for them to invest in improving that, whether there was a piano or not. I'll give them all of the suggestions.

    Thanks!

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    Norman Dutton RPT
    Pacifica CA
    (650) 291-2725
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    Original Message


  • 10.  RE: Muffling a grand piano

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-27-2022 20:00
    Norman --

    You mention that this piano is in a lobby. Yeah, the acoustics are going to be horrible and a live acoustic piano is the wrong instrument for the space. You'll never get the piano acoustically quiet enough to satisfy the needs of the room and still have it sound acceptably like a piano. On the other hand, some of the suggestions here could work in the home. I put 3" foam in the back of my Yamaha U1 and it knocked it down quite a bit. But again, if it's a large live room you're never really going to get it quiet enough to hold a conversation in the same room. 

    I service two locations where the piano is in a large live environment. In both locations the owners chose a Yamaha Disklavier so that they would have a real piano but also be able to play it super quiet using the "quiet" mode, which blocks the hammers from actually touching the strings and, instead, provides a Yamaha CF9 concert grand sample over speakers to replace it. You can get it almost silent quiet and it still sounds decent. However, replacing that Steinway is obviously not going to be an option. 

    But, since this is a Steinway, rather than go to extremes that are probably not going to look attractive, and probably not satisfy the needs of the room, I'd like to recommend an add on. Check out the QuietTime system by PianoDisc. 

    https://pianodisc.com/quiettime/ 

    It's a relatively inexpensive add-on that is easy to install, non-destructive to the piano, and functionally it delivers a system that can be played both acoustically and digitally over headphones. Only thing I'm not certain about is whether it can be used with speakers. My guess is that if you plug in powered speakers to the headphone jack it will work just fine. Might be worth contacting PianoDisc to find out.

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    Geoff Sykes, RPT
    Los Angeles CA
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    Original Message