Pianotech

In a concert setting is it possible to hear the different pianos and different tuning styles?

For instance a Steinway D tuned with Cybertuner vs a Steinway D tuned with Accutuner vs a Yamaha CFX tuned with the same?

Or a Steinway D tuned aurally with the a 2:1 stretch in the high treble section vs being tuned to a double octave or a pure 12th tuning?

I would love to listen to many different recordings and be able to know what make and model of piano it is and how it was tuned.

If you have a recording and don't mind sharing enough details that it could be imitated please post them and a link below with the details.

Make and Model of piano:

ETD: Which one and what settings?

Aurally: How do you set your temperament and what intervals and stretch do you use to tune the rest of the piano.

Any other relevant information? 

Thank you in advance if you contribute.

------------------------------
Gannon Rhinehart
Santa Fe NM
(505) 692-8385
------------------------------

https://youtu.be/HHVy2Jq1hz8?feature=shared

Steinway D

Brought to pitch with TuneLab 8:4 bass 4:2 Middle 2:1 Treble. It was moved in that day and was fairly flat. Pounded on for 10 mins or so.

Strip muted whole piano  

Temperament: Bill Bremmer's Concurrent 3rds F3, A3, C#4 F4 then down a 5th and up 2 thirds for the rest. (F#3 A#3 D4 G3 B3 D#4 G#4 C4 E4) 

Expanded the temperament until I could use double octave vs 12th making both acceptable (C3-C5 vs F3-C5) Checking for smooth 3rds, 6thd,10ths etc.

High treble slightly stretched beyond 2:1 checking for smooth progressing and not sour sounding 17ths.

Bass double octave vs 12ths until Deep base.

Deep Bass checked double octave and triple octaves with smooth progressing 10th and then 17ths.

Tuned unisons then banged on piano then double checked whole piano for smooth progression and any final mistakes.

(If you have any helpful suggestions for me I am always wanting to learn.)

(In this recording the strings had microphones near them and there was on microphone out and above near the audience. To me piano sounded louder in person.)

------------------------------
Gannon Rhinehart
Santa Fe NM
(505) 692-8385

Original Message:
Sent: 01-22-2024 17:08
From: Gannon Rhinehart
Subject: Recordings of different pianos with different tuning styles

In a concert setting is it possible to hear the different pianos and different tuning styles?

For instance a Steinway D tuned with Cybertuner vs a Steinway D tuned with Accutuner vs a Yamaha CFX tuned with the same?

Or a Steinway D tuned aurally with the a 2:1 stretch in the high treble section vs being tuned to a double octave or a pure 12th tuning?

I would love to listen to many different recordings and be able to know what make and model of piano it is and how it was tuned.

If you have a recording and don't mind sharing enough details that it could be imitated please post them and a link below with the details.

Make and Model of piano:

ETD: Which one and what settings?

Aurally: How do you set your temperament and what intervals and stretch do you use to tune the rest of the piano.

Any other relevant information? 

Thank you in advance if you contribute.

------------------------------
Gannon Rhinehart
Santa Fe NM
(505) 692-8385
------------------------------

Gannon, good idea. You want to see if one can "hear the different pianos and different tuning styles." You certainly have my encouragement.

Unfortunately, with all respect, I think you want to proceed by normal scientific methods that are usually referred to as "double blind" or, in your case, "single-blind" might do. Basically, for the recordings being made, some things you must keep secret until after ALL reviewer comments have been received back!

(a) First, you do NOT want to identify the pianos participating in the recordings.

(b) You do NOT want to identify the type of tuning approach. Whether (1) aural, or (2) visual using an ETD with piano sound as input, or (3) visual using an ETD with piano string mechanical energy as input.

(c) Similarly, do NOT identify the brands of ETD's.

(d) Do NOT identify the type of tuning style that has been used: industry standard ET (12 TET based on the octave) versus other types of ET versus the many types of non-ET's such as stretched octaves, pure 12ths, pure 5ths, modified M3's, etc etc. Or even historic temperaments.

I'll stop here, but you get the idea. You can research double-blind methods, or contact me off-line if you want me to get some references for you to study. If you and others go to this effort, you want quantifiable results.

Quite a big job if done correctly; give yourself and others plenty of time. Regards, Norman.

https://youtu.be/HHVy2Jq1hz8?feature=shared

Steinway D

Brought to pitch with TuneLab 8:4 bass 4:2 Middle 2:1 Treble. It was moved in that day and was fairly flat. Pounded on for 10 mins or so.

Strip muted whole piano  

Temperament: Bill Bremmer's Concurrent 3rds F3, A3, C#4 F4 then down a 5th and up 2 thirds for the rest. (F#3 A#3 D4 G3 B3 D#4 G#4 C4 E4) 

Expanded the temperament until I could use double octave vs 12th making both acceptable (C3-C5 vs F3-C5) Checking for smooth 3rds, 6thd,10ths etc.

High treble slightly stretched beyond 2:1 checking for smooth progressing and not sour sounding 17ths.

Bass double octave vs 12ths until Deep base.

Deep Bass checked double octave and triple octaves with smooth progressing 10th and then 17ths.

Tuned unisons then banged on piano then double checked whole piano for smooth progression and any final mistakes.

(If you have any helpful suggestions for me I am always wanting to learn.)

(In this recording the strings had microphones near them and there was on microphone out and above near the audience. To me piano sounded louder in person.)

------------------------------
Gannon Rhinehart
Santa Fe NM
(505) 692-8385

Original Message:
Sent: 01-22-2024 17:08
From: Gannon Rhinehart
Subject: Recordings of different pianos with different tuning styles

In a concert setting is it possible to hear the different pianos and different tuning styles?

For instance a Steinway D tuned with Cybertuner vs a Steinway D tuned with Accutuner vs a Yamaha CFX tuned with the same?

Or a Steinway D tuned aurally with the a 2:1 stretch in the high treble section vs being tuned to a double octave or a pure 12th tuning?

I would love to listen to many different recordings and be able to know what make and model of piano it is and how it was tuned.

If you have a recording and don't mind sharing enough details that it could be imitated please post them and a link below with the details.

Make and Model of piano:

ETD: Which one and what settings?

Aurally: How do you set your temperament and what intervals and stretch do you use to tune the rest of the piano.

Any other relevant information? 

Thank you in advance if you contribute.

------------------------------
Gannon Rhinehart
Santa Fe NM
(505) 692-8385
------------------------------

That would be great Norman, but far beyond what I would like.

I am not trying to scientifically prove one way is better than another. I just enjoy hearing the nuances of different styles and would like to learn more. 

For instance I will listen to the same piece of music a few times in a row but by different performers.You can hear a difference in their expression of the music. But also in the pianos and the recordings.

I would love to be able to hear some and know what piano it is and how it was tuned.

I would especially like to hear a Steinway D tuned in perfect 12th tuning. And would like to hear the new sensor that has caused the uproar and hear that extra clarity in unisons tuned perfectly. 

Mostly I am just an idiot for trying and comparing and learning new things. I have bought each variety of apple at the store to compare what is the difference in a Honeycrisp, vs a Gala vs a Fuji vs a Jonagold taste like.

So for me it doesn't need to be a double blind scientific test. Just an opportunity to hear and enjoy the nuances of the differences.

Gannon, good idea. You want to see if one can "hear the different pianos and different tuning styles." You certainly have my encouragement.

Unfortunately, with all respect, I think you want to proceed by normal scientific methods that are usually referred to as "double blind" or, in your case, "single-blind" might do. Basically, for the recordings being made, some things you must keep secret until after ALL reviewer comments have been received back!

(a) First, you do NOT want to identify the pianos participating in the recordings.

(b) You do NOT want to identify the type of tuning approach. Whether (1) aural, or (2) visual using an ETD with piano sound as input, or (3) visual using an ETD with piano string mechanical energy as input.

(c) Similarly, do NOT identify the brands of ETD's.

(d) Do NOT identify the type of tuning style that has been used: industry standard ET (12 TET based on the octave) versus other types of ET versus the many types of non-ET's such as stretched octaves, pure 12ths, pure 5ths, modified M3's, etc etc. Or even historic temperaments.

I'll stop here, but you get the idea. You can research double-blind methods, or contact me off-line if you want me to get some references for you to study. If you and others go to this effort, you want quantifiable results.

Quite a big job if done correctly; give yourself and others plenty of time. Regards, Norman.

https://youtu.be/HHVy2Jq1hz8?feature=shared

Steinway D

Brought to pitch with TuneLab 8:4 bass 4:2 Middle 2:1 Treble. It was moved in that day and was fairly flat. Pounded on for 10 mins or so.

Strip muted whole piano  

Temperament: Bill Bremmer's Concurrent 3rds F3, A3, C#4 F4 then down a 5th and up 2 thirds for the rest. (F#3 A#3 D4 G3 B3 D#4 G#4 C4 E4) 

Expanded the temperament until I could use double octave vs 12th making both acceptable (C3-C5 vs F3-C5) Checking for smooth 3rds, 6thd,10ths etc.

High treble slightly stretched beyond 2:1 checking for smooth progressing and not sour sounding 17ths.

Bass double octave vs 12ths until Deep base.

Deep Bass checked double octave and triple octaves with smooth progressing 10th and then 17ths.

Tuned unisons then banged on piano then double checked whole piano for smooth progression and any final mistakes.

(If you have any helpful suggestions for me I am always wanting to learn.)

(In this recording the strings had microphones near them and there was on microphone out and above near the audience. To me piano sounded louder in person.)

------------------------------
Gannon Rhinehart
Santa Fe NM
(505) 692-8385

Original Message:
Sent: 01-22-2024 17:08
From: Gannon Rhinehart
Subject: Recordings of different pianos with different tuning styles

In a concert setting is it possible to hear the different pianos and different tuning styles?

For instance a Steinway D tuned with Cybertuner vs a Steinway D tuned with Accutuner vs a Yamaha CFX tuned with the same?

Or a Steinway D tuned aurally with the a 2:1 stretch in the high treble section vs being tuned to a double octave or a pure 12th tuning?

I would love to listen to many different recordings and be able to know what make and model of piano it is and how it was tuned.

If you have a recording and don't mind sharing enough details that it could be imitated please post them and a link below with the details.

Make and Model of piano:

ETD: Which one and what settings?

Aurally: How do you set your temperament and what intervals and stretch do you use to tune the rest of the piano.

Any other relevant information? 

Thank you in advance if you contribute.

------------------------------
Gannon Rhinehart
Santa Fe NM
(505) 692-8385
------------------------------

Gannon, thanks for clarifying. I was hoping that you wanted to create comparisons that would go beyond what your own personal opinion is on different pianos, tuning style, tuning approach, temperaments, etc. My apologies. But maybe you'll reconsider!?

You say that the new sensor has caused an uproar? I personally think that it is good engineering that is in a strong sales mode. A single-blind test could help quantify Steven's pitch at (what I personally consider) a nice practical level.

Try the Macoun apple – that was my favorite when we lived in the Hudson Valley of New York. Regards, Norman.

That would be great Norman, but far beyond what I would like.

I am not trying to scientifically prove one way is better than another. I just enjoy hearing the nuances of different styles and would like to learn more. 

For instance I will listen to the same piece of music a few times in a row but by different performers.You can hear a difference in their expression of the music. But also in the pianos and the recordings.

I would love to be able to hear some and know what piano it is and how it was tuned.

I would especially like to hear a Steinway D tuned in perfect 12th tuning. And would like to hear the new sensor that has caused the uproar and hear that extra clarity in unisons tuned perfectly. 

Mostly I am just an idiot for trying and comparing and learning new things. I have bought each variety of apple at the store to compare what is the difference in a Honeycrisp, vs a Gala vs a Fuji vs a Jonagold taste like.

So for me it doesn't need to be a double blind scientific test. Just an opportunity to hear and enjoy the nuances of the differences.

Gannon, good idea. You want to see if one can "hear the different pianos and different tuning styles." You certainly have my encouragement.

Unfortunately, with all respect, I think you want to proceed by normal scientific methods that are usually referred to as "double blind" or, in your case, "single-blind" might do. Basically, for the recordings being made, some things you must keep secret until after ALL reviewer comments have been received back!

(a) First, you do NOT want to identify the pianos participating in the recordings.

(b) You do NOT want to identify the type of tuning approach. Whether (1) aural, or (2) visual using an ETD with piano sound as input, or (3) visual using an ETD with piano string mechanical energy as input.

(c) Similarly, do NOT identify the brands of ETD's.

(d) Do NOT identify the type of tuning style that has been used: industry standard ET (12 TET based on the octave) versus other types of ET versus the many types of non-ET's such as stretched octaves, pure 12ths, pure 5ths, modified M3's, etc etc. Or even historic temperaments.

I'll stop here, but you get the idea. You can research double-blind methods, or contact me off-line if you want me to get some references for you to study. If you and others go to this effort, you want quantifiable results.

Quite a big job if done correctly; give yourself and others plenty of time. Regards, Norman.

https://youtu.be/HHVy2Jq1hz8?feature=shared

Steinway D

Brought to pitch with TuneLab 8:4 bass 4:2 Middle 2:1 Treble. It was moved in that day and was fairly flat. Pounded on for 10 mins or so.

Strip muted whole piano  

Temperament: Bill Bremmer's Concurrent 3rds F3, A3, C#4 F4 then down a 5th and up 2 thirds for the rest. (F#3 A#3 D4 G3 B3 D#4 G#4 C4 E4) 

Expanded the temperament until I could use double octave vs 12th making both acceptable (C3-C5 vs F3-C5) Checking for smooth 3rds, 6thd,10ths etc.

High treble slightly stretched beyond 2:1 checking for smooth progressing and not sour sounding 17ths.

Bass double octave vs 12ths until Deep base.

Deep Bass checked double octave and triple octaves with smooth progressing 10th and then 17ths.

Tuned unisons then banged on piano then double checked whole piano for smooth progression and any final mistakes.

(If you have any helpful suggestions for me I am always wanting to learn.)

(In this recording the strings had microphones near them and there was on microphone out and above near the audience. To me piano sounded louder in person.)

------------------------------
Gannon Rhinehart
Santa Fe NM
(505) 692-8385

Original Message:
Sent: 01-22-2024 17:08
From: Gannon Rhinehart
Subject: Recordings of different pianos with different tuning styles

In a concert setting is it possible to hear the different pianos and different tuning styles?

For instance a Steinway D tuned with Cybertuner vs a Steinway D tuned with Accutuner vs a Yamaha CFX tuned with the same?

Or a Steinway D tuned aurally with the a 2:1 stretch in the high treble section vs being tuned to a double octave or a pure 12th tuning?

I would love to listen to many different recordings and be able to know what make and model of piano it is and how it was tuned.

If you have a recording and don't mind sharing enough details that it could be imitated please post them and a link below with the details.

Make and Model of piano:

ETD: Which one and what settings?

Aurally: How do you set your temperament and what intervals and stretch do you use to tune the rest of the piano.

Any other relevant information? 

Thank you in advance if you contribute.

------------------------------
Gannon Rhinehart
Santa Fe NM
(505) 692-8385
------------------------------