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steaam over-lacquesred hammers?

  • 1.  steaam over-lacquesred hammers?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 20 days ago

    Greetings,

    A client has a 1974 Steinway B with over-lacquered hammers. The most aggressive needling techniques have fallen short of attenuating the attack brightness sufficiently for the client's taste (his hearing is very sensitive). I mentioned to a colleague that there seem to be only two options at this point: wash out the lacquer with acetone or lacquer thinner, or replace the hammers with new ones that are all the way at the soft end of the tinal spectrum (e.g. Ronsen Bacons).

    This colleague suggested steaming the hammers. I have used steam successfully on inherently hard hammers (e. g., 1980's Yamahas) but have never tried it on hammers that have been hardened with lacquer. If steaming would work, it would be far less expensive and much faster than the other two options I have mentioned.

    Has anyone out there tried steaming over-lacquered Steinway hammers? And if so, what were the results?

    Thanks,

    Alan



    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: steaam over-lacquesred hammers?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 20 days ago
    This may be your intent already but: Why not try the more conservative approach of washing out the lacquer first? Especially if you're pretty sure the lacquer is the problem.





  • 3.  RE: steaam over-lacquesred hammers?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 19 days ago

    Good point, Nathan. While I do not know with certainty that lacquer is the culprit here, after sinking compass needles several millimeters into the string cuts at the strike point, to little effect, I deduced that the attack hardness is likely due to lacquer.

    I prefer not to deal with acetone or lacquer thinner if I can avoid it, although it is starting to sound like the solvent approach may indeed be more prudent than using steam on these hammers.



    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: steaam over-lacquesred hammers?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 20 days ago

    Have you tried soaking the hammers in lacquer and voicing while wet?  Have you tried voicing pliers?  Take some size 10r vise grips, file off grooves.

    Squeeze the shoulders.  Quite effective and fast. Of course new hammers best choice. Why were hammers lacquered in the first place? If customer

    was looking for more brilliance Renner or Abel hammers would be my choice.



    ------------------------------
    Parker Leigh RPT
    Winchester VA
    (540) 722-3865
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: steaam over-lacquesred hammers?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 19 days ago

    Alan,

    You might be surprised with the effectiveness of VS-PROFELT on the hammers at breaking up that lacquer. Either at strike point, or shoulders, or from the side, in the meat of the hammers. 

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor 



    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    (603) 686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: steaam over-lacquesred hammers?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 19 days ago

    I have never tried VS Profelt on hammers before, Peter. Might will be worth trying on these hammers. Sounds like you have tried this before. What have I got to lose?



    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: steaam over-lacquesred hammers?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 19 days ago

    Parker,

    Adding more lacquer had not occurred to me, seeing as how lacquer seems to be the source of the near nature of the felt on these hammers.

    And yes, I have used the vice grip approach, which I had previously only used on rockhard Chinese hammers. That barely made a dent in the tone of these hammers.

    The client purchased this piano some time ago, and did not have the hammers lacquered. It was already in there.

    Thanks, 

    Alan



    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: steaam over-lacquesred hammers?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 19 days ago

    Replying to #7.  I meant to write lacquer thinner NOT lacquer.  Acetone could also be used.  Best solution:  new hammers.  Use hammers that do not require chemical hardeners.



    ------------------------------
    Parker Leigh RPT
    Winchester VA
    (540) 722-3865
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: steaam over-lacquesred hammers?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 19 days ago

    Parker,

    After hitting the "send" button on my response to you, I realized that you probably did mean to say lacquer thinner, and not lacquer itself.

    I am in complete accord with your point that the best hammers are those that do not require chemical hardening (or, at least, not much).



    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: steaam over-lacquesred hammers?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 19 days ago

    Alan,

    Yes I have. However, move forward cautiously since it is possible to go too far and adversely affect the glue at the moulding. 

    I made a rock hard set of these "usable" in this way. But I repeat to proceed with caution as it is powerful stuff. 

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor 



    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    (603) 686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: steaam over-lacquesred hammers?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 19 days ago

    Roger that, Peter. I so appreciate this caution!



    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: steaam over-lacquesred hammers?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 19 days ago
    Alan,
    Another softening method that I haven't seen anyone mention yet is using Snuggle fabric softener. Unfortunately I'm retired and forget the proportion of Snuggle to water. Maybe someone will have suggestions. I rarely used this method, but I found that it worked well. It can be applied in a number of ways. A drop or two in the end of the string cuts, or applied with a spray bottle over several hammers are a couple of choices.  If you apply too much the hammer may create a "bubble" or bump of felt. So caution is paramount.

    Maybe this was a passing voicing phase that has faded or proved too radical. Maybe there's a Journal article.

    Richard West





  • 13.  RE: steaam over-lacquesred hammers?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 19 days ago
    Alan,

    I found the softening “recipe.” Equal parts of water and isopropyl alcohol topped off with 10% Snuggle. The formula is variable as needed. But Snuggle works the best as the softening agent.

    Richard West




  • 14.  RE: steaam over-lacquesred hammers?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 19 days ago

    Ultimately I believe the "active" ingredient is the water, whereas the surfactant(s) are alcohol and snuggle.

    Another extremely effective surfactant is Dampp-Chaser pad treatment, as the active ingredient there is CAS-xxx.... which if you look it up is a pretty powerful surfactant. I have replaced my alcohol usage with that when I need to get water somewhere it does not want to go by nature. 

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor 



    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    (603) 686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: steaam over-lacquesred hammers?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 18 days ago
    I have used this on hard lacquered and hard heat pressed hammers. Works well on both. Knowing the % of water in isopropyl is supremely important, as water is powerful at mellowing strident toned-hammers.

    Very light steaming can also be done to soften over lacquered hammers. Again, the water quantity requires supreme caution, as has a strong effect.

    Joe Wiencek
    NYC