Pianotech

About 2 years ago, I posted about the "choked" tone on a Steinway L from 1981.  The advice I received was to check on the down bearing, especially after taking the tension down. Also to check on the shape of the v-bar.   I did not take the tension down, but I did measure the down bearing on a Wixey angle gauge attached to a shop made foot copied from the photo in Mario Igrec's tome (photo was of the said device made by Jim Ialeggio.)

The average composite bearing at tension for the treble capo section was 2.4 degrees.  For the high treble, 3.9 degrees. at d#4 2.3 degrees and c#5, 2.1 degrees.  B0 was 2.8 degrees, a#1 1.3 degrees. B2 was 0.8 degrees.

Additional findings were 2mm or more crown at the longest rib. Hammers are hardened intensely. I discovered a gooey substance on the strings all along the capo, which cleaned off easiest with denatured alcohol.

So far the actions I took: I filed both capo sections to a V (perhaps even to the satisfaction of Ed McMorrow, ha)

 After cleaning the goo from the capo and strings and resetting to tension, sustain was markedly improved, but still lacking.  This gooey substance is present across all strings.  I have not treated/cleaned the tenor or bass sections.  Bass especially is choked.  I don't know what the substance is, but based on how readily it removed with denatured alcohol makes wonder if it could be shellac? And why would it be present across the piano? The treble and high treble hammers are colored slightly yellow in the string grooves. 

It seems that the down bearing is still causing the "choking" tone, but I have never diagnosed anything similar to be confident about that.  I would be very interested to correct the down bearing if possible, though I do not have a shop space that allows for an entire piano to be brought in for corrections. 

Any further thoughts or advice would be most welcome.  I will revisit this piano tomorrow.

------------------------------
Joe Wiencek

New York NY
------------------------------

You're witnessing what i call, the Steinway Sabotage. Its a combo in the treble of excessive downbearing, a too thin soundboard panel, and a missing rib (most mfg's had 12 or 13 ribs for a 6', Steinway has 11).

1. Try adding a riblet.
2. Also try loosening  all strings, remove off of hitch pins, remove the string rest and shim it( i use brass). 
3. Put all back together again.

-chris

------------------------------
Chernobieff Piano Restorations

Inertia Touch Wave(ITW) The most advanced silky smooth actions.

Engineered Hygroscopic Soundboards. The strongest and lightest boards made today for acoustic projection, richness and warmth.

865-986-7720 (text only please)
------------------------------

I would agree with Chris here. I have found over the years enough instances of this to be pretty confident of a diagnosis. Massively excessive and/or uneven downbearing being the primary culprit. 

You will need to remove all tension, then recheck the crown (probably quite a bit more now), I would use a string to measure DB requiring spot removal of some strings. Then as Chris said shim the aliquots and whatever other string rests are there to achieve a light DB load. 

If it does what I expect you will need to soften those super hard hammers as the volume will be enormous (this is why they juiced the hammers to the max in the first place because they were getting "nothing" out of the piano due to excessive DB). 

Restringing completely would be the ideal thing but since you don't have the facilities (unless you do it on site) this will be the best you can do.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-20-2025 23:10
From: Chris Chernobieff
Subject: Strangely Choked tone revisited

You're witnessing what i call, the Steinway Sabotage. Its a combo in the treble of excessive downbearing, a too thin soundboard panel, and a missing rib (most mfg's had 12 or 13 ribs for a 6', Steinway has 11).

1. Try adding a riblet.
2. Also try loosening  all strings, remove off of hitch pins, remove the string rest and shim it( i use brass). 
3. Put all back together again.

-chris

------------------------------
Chernobieff Piano Restorations

Inertia Touch Wave(ITW) The most advanced silky smooth actions.

Engineered Hygroscopic Soundboards. The strongest and lightest boards made today for acoustic projection, richness and warmth.

865-986-7720 (text only please)
------------------------------

Thanks Peter.

The piano is definitely ripe for restringing. It may be possible to do that in situ, but I haven’t explored that option with the client yet.

Do you set target DB angles based on how much crown is observed once the string tension is released?



Joe Wiencek


Original Message:
Sent: 5/22/2025 4:26:00 PM
From: Peter Grey
Subject: RE: Strangely Choked tone revisited

I would agree with Chris here. I have found over the years enough instances of this to be pretty confident of a diagnosis. Massively excessive and/or uneven downbearing being the primary culprit. 

You will need to remove all tension, then recheck the crown (probably quite a bit more now), I would use a string to measure DB requiring spot removal of some strings. Then as Chris said shim the aliquots and whatever other string rests are there to achieve a light DB load. 

If it does what I expect you will need to soften those super hard hammers as the volume will be enormous (this is why they juiced the hammers to the max in the first place because they were getting "nothing" out of the piano due to excessive DB). 

Restringing completely would be the ideal thing but since you don't have the facilities (unless you do it on site) this will be the best you can do.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Joe,

Yes, when this problem is suspected I like to make careful observations of crown in various parts BEFORE dis-assembly, especially looking to see if directly under the bridge is different from areas not under the bridge (I'm trying to determine flexibility by a seat of the pants method).

After destringing (or tension removal) I look again at crown and compare with the original findings. If it has changed appreciatively (i.e., typically now looks normal with more crown) I suspect I'm on the right track. Now I go topside and start logging actual DB (string method). If you're not restringing you'll have to remove a few wires in the agraffe sections (I find this annoying but it's the only way to see the current setup). 

Then I will shim aliquots using fiberboard (tapered if needed by sanding) to achieve a fairly light bearing load that will not squash the soundboard again (if that was evident, and based on my analog assessment of board flexibility). Evenness is important. 

I tend to think that by now (from 1981) the soundboard has seasoned enough that it's going to retain most of its current crown for quite some time, therefore I don't need to load things under the assumption that it will soon lose crown (if you know what I mean). A light to moderate bearing load is ideal (lighter if it's a more flexible board, etc. [This is a bit of a guess]). 

Others may have a slightly different approach to setting DB but the global idea is light to moderate and as even as you can achieve. Finally, after restringing or reassembly assess your results and determine if riblets are needed (they might be...I have a 1970 L here that benefitted from one weighted riblet after experimenting with several unweighted ones [Chris C. turned me on to this trick]). 

Have fun! Interested in your findings ultimately. 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-06-2025 16:52
From: Joe Wiencek
Subject: Strangely Choked tone revisited

Thanks Peter.

The piano is definitely ripe for restringing. It may be possible to do that in situ, but I haven't explored that option with the client yet.

Do you set target DB angles based on how much crown is observed once the string tension is released?



Joe Wiencek



Original Message:
Sent: 5/22/2025 4:26:00 PM
From: Peter Grey
Subject: RE: Strangely Choked tone revisited

I would agree with Chris here. I have found over the years enough instances of this to be pretty confident of a diagnosis. Massively excessive and/or uneven downbearing being the primary culprit. 

You will need to remove all tension, then recheck the crown (probably quite a bit more now), I would use a string to measure DB requiring spot removal of some strings. Then as Chris said shim the aliquots and whatever other string rests are there to achieve a light DB load. 

If it does what I expect you will need to soften those super hard hammers as the volume will be enormous (this is why they juiced the hammers to the max in the first place because they were getting "nothing" out of the piano due to excessive DB). 

Restringing completely would be the ideal thing but since you don't have the facilities (unless you do it on site) this will be the best you can do.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 05-20-2025 23:10
From: Chris Chernobieff
Subject: Strangely Choked tone revisited

You're witnessing what i call, the Steinway Sabotage. Its a combo in the treble of excessive downbearing, a too thin soundboard panel, and a missing rib (most mfg's had 12 or 13 ribs for a 6', Steinway has 11).

1. Try adding a riblet.
2. Also try loosening  all strings, remove off of hitch pins, remove the string rest and shim it( i use brass). 
3. Put all back together again.

-chris

------------------------------
Chernobieff Piano Restorations

Inertia Touch Wave(ITW) The most advanced silky smooth actions.

Engineered Hygroscopic Soundboards. The strongest and lightest boards made today for acoustic projection, richness and warmth.

865-986-7720 (text only please)

Thanks Chris.

How would determine where to locate a riblet?

When you shim with brass, do you mean half-round for the lower tenor and bass? I am imagining that the aliquot areas could
be shimmed with vulcanized fibre (aka fishpaper) underneath the aliquots.

Joe Wiencek


Original Message:
Sent: 5/20/2025 11:11:00 PM
From: Chris Chernobieff
Subject: RE: Strangely Choked tone revisited

You're witnessing what i call, the Steinway Sabotage. Its a combo in the treble of excessive downbearing, a too thin soundboard panel, and a missing rib (most mfg's had 12 or 13 ribs for a 6', Steinway has 11).

1. Try adding a riblet.
2. Also try loosening  all strings, remove off of hitch pins, remove the string rest and shim it( i use brass). 
3. Put all back together again.

-chris

------------------------------
Chernobieff Piano Restorations

Inertia Touch Wave(ITW) The most advanced silky smooth actions.

Engineered Hygroscopic Soundboards. The strongest and lightest boards made today for acoustic projection, richness and warmth.

865-986-7720 (text only please)
------------------------------