Pianotech

My next hurdle as a tuner is dealing with grands on which the pitch does not change when turning the pin. Of course I can eventually get the pitch to change by banging it near to death or by loosing it a lot and then bringing it up, but it's a time consuming battle to tune and make stable. I've got the worst one ever coming up next week, a 100 year old Canadian grand.

I think this is happening because the strings are hanging up in the non-speaking length on termination points and cloth.

I have gotten suggestions including using Protek or molybdenum on the strings and PFTE on the cloth and rubbing the strings with a brass rod after turning the pin.

I welcome any explanation or suggestions for ways to handle this. It would save me time on some of my tunings and sore muscles. Thanks!

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Jonathan Saunders
Bartlett TN
(901) 499-8589
------------------------------

My next hurdle as a tuner is dealing with grands on which the pitch does not change when turning the pin. Of course I can eventually get the pitch to change by banging it near to death or by loosing it a lot and then bringing it up, but it's a time consuming battle to tune and make stable. I've got the worst one ever coming up next week, a 100 year old Canadian grand.

I think this is happening because the strings are hanging up in the non-speaking length on termination points and cloth.

I have gotten suggestions including using Protek or molybdenum on the strings and PFTE on the cloth and rubbing the strings with a brass rod after turning the pin.

I welcome any explanation or suggestions for ways to handle this. It would save me time on some of my tunings and sore muscles. Thanks!

------------------------------
Jonathan Saunders
Bartlett TN
(901) 499-8589
------------------------------

I want to agree with Peter on using CBL, counterbearing lube.  I had a client with a 1920's Steinway B with an original player in it.  The tuning on it was a real chore, same symptoms as you had there.  Once I put the CBL on the string rests and agraffes, it tuned up very nicely.  I would not put anything on the bridge pins or get anywhere close to the tuning pins with any kind of lube of course, but usually the problem is at least a lot less if I lube the understring felt.  Another technique is to tune by carefully bringing up the pitch and then stopping.  Trying to tune back down to pitch with old strings sometimes doesn't work so well.  Pounding doesn't help much, and can often end up with the pitch going sharp later.  Don't ask how I know.  I believe that pounding a note down into tune traps extra tension on the far side of the bridge and other non speaking parts of the string, and later leaks back to make the note rise in pitch.  It's also common to have old strings that "pop" or "ping" when you get near the pitch, and you have a very hard time nailing the tuning.

You might have a bit of a challenge getting the CBL from Jon Page, as he usually only will accept a check.  No Venmo or other fancy payment schemes.  But once you start using it, you'll wonder why you didn't get some sooner.

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Paul McCloud, RPT
Accutone Piano Service
www.AccutonePianoService.com
pavadasa@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 01-23-2026 21:13
From: Jonathan Saunders
Subject: strings hang on agraffes, capo bars, cloth, etc.

My next hurdle as a tuner is dealing with grands on which the pitch does not change when turning the pin. Of course I can eventually get the pitch to change by banging it near to death or by loosing it a lot and then bringing it up, but it's a time consuming battle to tune and make stable. I've got the worst one ever coming up next week, a 100 year old Canadian grand.

I think this is happening because the strings are hanging up in the non-speaking length on termination points and cloth.

I have gotten suggestions including using Protek or molybdenum on the strings and PFTE on the cloth and rubbing the strings with a brass rod after turning the pin.

I welcome any explanation or suggestions for ways to handle this. It would save me time on some of my tunings and sore muscles. Thanks!

------------------------------
Jonathan Saunders
Bartlett TN
(901) 499-8589
------------------------------

My next hurdle as a tuner is dealing with grands on which the pitch does not change when turning the pin. Of course I can eventually get the pitch to change by banging it near to death or by loosing it a lot and then bringing it up, but it's a time consuming battle to tune and make stable. I've got the worst one ever coming up next week, a 100 year old Canadian grand.

I think this is happening because the strings are hanging up in the non-speaking length on termination points and cloth.

I have gotten suggestions including using Protek or molybdenum on the strings and PFTE on the cloth and rubbing the strings with a brass rod after turning the pin.

I welcome any explanation or suggestions for ways to handle this. It would save me time on some of my tunings and sore muscles. Thanks!

------------------------------
Jonathan Saunders
Bartlett TN
(901) 499-8589
------------------------------

My next hurdle as a tuner is dealing with grands on which the pitch does not change when turning the pin. Of course I can eventually get the pitch to change by banging it near to death or by loosing it a lot and then bringing it up, but it's a time consuming battle to tune and make stable. I've got the worst one ever coming up next week, a 100 year old Canadian grand.

I think this is happening because the strings are hanging up in the non-speaking length on termination points and cloth.

I have gotten suggestions including using Protek or molybdenum on the strings and PFTE on the cloth and rubbing the strings with a brass rod after turning the pin.

I welcome any explanation or suggestions for ways to handle this. It would save me time on some of my tunings and sore muscles. Thanks!

------------------------------
Jonathan Saunders
Bartlett TN
(901) 499-8589
------------------------------

Bends have become virtually permanent, oxidative imperfections create a "mirror" image in any counterbearing cloth/felt, compounded by intense pressure (a.k.a., "set in their ways"), etc, etc. This situation intensifies year by year, especially after after the piano's "design lifspan" has been exceeded. This one is well into its 'third' life. 

Yes, I have encountered some that no matter what you do, its not fun...period. I make it a regular habit to inform owners of the actual reality of a pianos' expected lifespan, at which point major restorative work or replacement start becoming needed options.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

My next hurdle as a tuner is dealing with grands on which the pitch does not change when turning the pin. Of course I can eventually get the pitch to change by banging it near to death or by loosing it a lot and then bringing it up, but it's a time consuming battle to tune and make stable. I've got the worst one ever coming up next week, a 100 year old Canadian grand.

I think this is happening because the strings are hanging up in the non-speaking length on termination points and cloth.

I have gotten suggestions including using Protek or molybdenum on the strings and PFTE on the cloth and rubbing the strings with a brass rod after turning the pin.

I welcome any explanation or suggestions for ways to handle this. It would save me time on some of my tunings and sore muscles. Thanks!

------------------------------
Jonathan Saunders
Bartlett TN
(901) 499-8589
------------------------------

My next hurdle as a tuner is dealing with grands on which the pitch does not change when turning the pin. Of course I can eventually get the pitch to change by banging it near to death or by loosing it a lot and then bringing it up, but it's a time consuming battle to tune and make stable. I've got the worst one ever coming up next week, a 100 year old Canadian grand.

I think this is happening because the strings are hanging up in the non-speaking length on termination points and cloth.

I have gotten suggestions including using Protek or molybdenum on the strings and PFTE on the cloth and rubbing the strings with a brass rod after turning the pin.

I welcome any explanation or suggestions for ways to handle this. It would save me time on some of my tunings and sore muscles. Thanks!

------------------------------
Jonathan Saunders
Bartlett TN
(901) 499-8589
------------------------------

In a piano, cast iron actually has greater natural lubricity than brass (agraffes) because of the high carbon (essentially graphite) content.  However, because brass is soft, over time it is prone to galling, or the string cutting grooves in the torus of the agraffe.  Even with two points of friction that you find in the counterbearing bar in the capo section, the natural lubricity is still lower than brass, again, in part due to the galling of the agraffe.  Older pianos will have more galling so will have relatively higher friction in the agraffes section.  It stands to reason, then, that, as many have suggested, the source of friction instability is more likely to come from the understring felt especially when combined with galled brass agraffes. The greater mass of the strings lower in the piano combined with greater extrusion of the strings makes the friction less of a factor.  That's often evident in the bass section that also has a combination of agraffes and counterbearing felt. The reason you tend to see less breakage in the bass and tenor section is because the BP% of the strings in that area tends to be lower so you are less likely to exceed the break point when the string binds. 

If you have rendering problems it's best to treat the cloth as well as the counterbearing bars, capo and agraffes.  Jon Page's CBL works quite well but Protek CPL will also work.   

My next hurdle as a tuner is dealing with grands on which the pitch does not change when turning the pin. Of course I can eventually get the pitch to change by banging it near to death or by loosing it a lot and then bringing it up, but it's a time consuming battle to tune and make stable. I've got the worst one ever coming up next week, a 100 year old Canadian grand.

I think this is happening because the strings are hanging up in the non-speaking length on termination points and cloth.

I have gotten suggestions including using Protek or molybdenum on the strings and PFTE on the cloth and rubbing the strings with a brass rod after turning the pin.

I welcome any explanation or suggestions for ways to handle this. It would save me time on some of my tunings and sore muscles. Thanks!

------------------------------
Jonathan Saunders
Bartlett TN
(901) 499-8589
------------------------------

Anyone know where to purchase Jon Page's CBL?

In a piano, cast iron actually has greater natural lubricity than brass (agraffes) because of the high carbon (essentially graphite) content.  However, because brass is soft, over time it is prone to galling, or the string cutting grooves in the torus of the agraffe.  Even with two points of friction that you find in the counterbearing bar in the capo section, the natural lubricity is still lower than brass, again, in part due to the galling of the agraffe.  Older pianos will have more galling so will have relatively higher friction in the agraffes section.  It stands to reason, then, that, as many have suggested, the source of friction instability is more likely to come from the understring felt especially when combined with galled brass agraffes. The greater mass of the strings lower in the piano combined with greater extrusion of the strings makes the friction less of a factor.  That's often evident in the bass section that also has a combination of agraffes and counterbearing felt. The reason you tend to see less breakage in the bass and tenor section is because the BP% of the strings in that area tends to be lower so you are less likely to exceed the break point when the string binds. 

If you have rendering problems it's best to treat the cloth as well as the counterbearing bars, capo and agraffes.  Jon Page's CBL works quite well but Protek CPL will also work.   

My next hurdle as a tuner is dealing with grands on which the pitch does not change when turning the pin. Of course I can eventually get the pitch to change by banging it near to death or by loosing it a lot and then bringing it up, but it's a time consuming battle to tune and make stable. I've got the worst one ever coming up next week, a 100 year old Canadian grand.

I think this is happening because the strings are hanging up in the non-speaking length on termination points and cloth.

I have gotten suggestions including using Protek or molybdenum on the strings and PFTE on the cloth and rubbing the strings with a brass rod after turning the pin.

I welcome any explanation or suggestions for ways to handle this. It would save me time on some of my tunings and sore muscles. Thanks!

------------------------------
Jonathan Saunders
Bartlett TN
(901) 499-8589
------------------------------

My next hurdle as a tuner is dealing with grands on which the pitch does not change when turning the pin. Of course I can eventually get the pitch to change by banging it near to death or by loosing it a lot and then bringing it up, but it's a time consuming battle to tune and make stable. I've got the worst one ever coming up next week, a 100 year old Canadian grand.

I think this is happening because the strings are hanging up in the non-speaking length on termination points and cloth.

I have gotten suggestions including using Protek or molybdenum on the strings and PFTE on the cloth and rubbing the strings with a brass rod after turning the pin.

I welcome any explanation or suggestions for ways to handle this. It would save me time on some of my tunings and sore muscles. Thanks!

------------------------------
Jonathan Saunders
Bartlett TN
(901) 499-8589
------------------------------