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Stwy B lyre

  • 1.  Stwy B lyre

    Member
    Posted 06-06-2022 17:35
    Greetings all.
    This Steinway B had its middle pedal stomped by an angry teenage boy, breaking the pedal off its hinge. The middle pedal is completely loose, and in the photo I have pushed it as far forward as it will go in order to get a clear picture of the face plate. We've removed the six screws that hold the face plate, but the face plate seems immovable. The piano is resting on two plush rugs, so the bottom of the lyre is pressed firmly into the rug surface. 
    I've never dealt with the lyre of a Steinway B. Most likely I'll need to jack up the front legs of the piano to enable access to the lyre (I can borrow a jack for this); I guess the whole lyre must come off, which I've heard rumors that the Stwy B's lyre is attached under the keybed like some kind of Chinese puzzle. Then I have to repair the unseen damage, and regulate the sostenuto. Any advice?
    photo:


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    Jason Kanter
    Lynnwood WA
    (425) 830-1561
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  • 2.  RE: Stwy B lyre

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-06-2022 17:49
    I'm assuming it's a modern B, with the peak rods exposed in the back?  Also assuming that you removed rods from the 'sockets' at the rest of pedals.  It could make it a bit easier if you would remove the pedal guide rail/block so you're not fighting with the rods.  
    The lyre will be attached either with two screws or a cam block.  Which is the part that confirmed you, other than the carpet?
    #

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    David Skolnik [RPT]
    Hastings-on-Hudson NY
    (917) 589-2625
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    Original Message


  • 3.  RE: Stwy B lyre

    Posted 06-06-2022 17:53
    Place the legs on caster cups to elevate the piano. With the lyre pressed into the carpet the keybed is also bowed upwards and you have a loss of key dip.You also have to remove the pedal rods from their cups in order to remove the face plate.

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    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
    http://www.pianocapecod.com
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    Original Message


  • 4.  RE: Stwy B lyre

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-06-2022 20:11
    Jason - some follow-up 
    You seemed to refer to a single 'jack' to lift the front of the piano.  This could be problematic for a number of reasons:
    - a single, center positioned jack would be quite unstable.  You wouldn't want to be under there.
    - in fact, you wouldn't want to be under there with two jacks without some positive support.  This item might be the exception
    https://kttsmartmove.net/our-products
    but they're pricey and you'd want two.  
    Since you don't know how bad the damage is, you'd want to have the option of taking it to your shop, unless there's large distance involved.
    - you could use a single center jack, but you'd need more than caster cups to  put under the legs, especially if you're taking the lyre with you.
    - you should have a proper mallet with felt padding to propel the lyre forward, to disengage the leg plates.  Also for reinstalling.
    - are the legs digging into the carpet?  As per Jon Page's advice, are there already caster cups?  If not you should install some.
    - might be good to ingage the angry teenager in the repair process.

    I forgot.  Does anyone actually use that pedal??   :)

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    David Skolnik [RPT]
    Hastings-on-Hudson NY
    (917) 589-2625
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    Original Message


  • 5.  RE: Stwy B lyre

    Posted 06-06-2022 21:17

    Hi, David.

    Usually no one does use that pedal --- except one concert, many years ago, but very memorable, when Leon Bates wanted to use it on our SD10 and I couldn't get it working. I had to turn it to a bass sustaining, and I spent a full day on it the next week, figuring out and altering what had gone wrong.

    He was very nice about it.




    Original Message


  • 6.  RE: Stwy B lyre

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-08-2022 07:53
    There are many faculty and guest artists here that use the sostenuto pedal on the university piano regularly. But will the client ever need it? 
    Doubtful. You should be able to elevate the piano high enough to remove the problematic second carpet by
    placing the jack 1/3 the way in - or half way between the leg and lyre, if you need to actually remove the lyre. Pull the carpet out to service the lyre. 
    But you shouldn't need to. The plate and pedals come out as one assembly once the lift rods are disconnected.

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    Dave Conte

    University of Tennessee
    Knoxville TN
    (817) 307-5656
    Owner: Rocky Top Piano
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    Original Message


  • 7.  RE: Stwy B lyre

    Posted 06-08-2022 16:43

    Yes, many customers don't even know what it's for. However, I do remember one bright moment (when I was very lucky, being only slightly prepared.) I was in Stockton (early days, little experience), and a lot of people had made a habit of bringing "real" technicians from the Bay Area. This one, sort of snooty, was trying a local for the first time. I tuned her Steinway grand, uneventful, and checked the pedals. The sostenuto was not adjusted. I explained to her, pulled the action, and changed the rail placement, moving it forward. It was my great good fortune that I got it right, because I did not have experience with the different geometries involved. So, the pedal worked, and I demonstrated it.

    Her San Francisco marvel had never bothered ...

    If it's a Steinway grand, it deserves to have a working, adjusted middle pedal. You never know when a real musician might show up.

    I remember another moment, many years later, when a visiting hotshot at LInfield College had been boasting about her wonderful grand. She was playing our stage Steinway D. She complained that the middle pedal wasn't working, because when she pushed it down nothing happened. A moment like this calls for tact, but I managed to show her how it worked. It then became apparent that her amazing home grand raised the hammers using the middle pedal, for a sort of soft pedal.




    Original Message


  • 8.  RE: Stwy B lyre

    Posted 06-06-2022 19:56

    The face plate is a wonderful invention. Just take out the rods at the back, undo all the faceplate screws, remove the face plate, and pull the pedals forward. You should be able to fix what happened to the middle pedal with the lyre still firmly attached to the piano.

    I do keep track of which of the faceplate screws went into which hole, though they probably are the same so it might not be strictly necessary.




    Original Message


  • 9.  RE: Stwy B lyre

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-06-2022 20:13
    Jason, you might try using a stringing hook or some similar "L" shaped tool to ease the plate out from below the pedals. I think you are going to have to pull the lyre though.

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    Steven Rosenthal RPT
    Honolulu HI
    (808) 521-7129
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    Original Message


  • 10.  RE: Stwy B lyre

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-07-2022 06:14
    Jason - 

    I'm attaching a photo showing the backside of a Steinway pedal faceplate that may help you visualize what might have happened to the pedal and what might be preventing it from coming out. It may be that the pedal pivot plate or its retaining screw were damaged and will need to be replaced. I can't imagine that the trauma did the pivot rod itself any good, either. All these parts are available from NY, up to and including a complete assembly with pedals. 

    BTW I regularly replace the pivot rod, teflon bushings and leather spacers on these, as well as trap pivot pins. These parts often exhibit significant wear, and it's inexpensive and quick. This is a before shot from a recently "rebuilt" B. The pivot pin was bent and the cloth bushings and BR punching spacers were already worn after a year in service and left the pedals with a mushy, imprecise feel. (Also notice that all four pivot rod retaining screws are different - sheesh!).

    steinway pedal faceplate.jpg 




    Original Message


  • 11.  RE: Stwy B lyre

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-07-2022 14:46
    Last time I tried to buy just pedals from Steinway I was required to buy the entire unit, three pedals, faceplate and all. Will be interested to learn if you can actually get just one pedal (or even three). My dilemma stemmed from a homeowner move gone bad (snapped the pedals right off tipping it forward...oops!)

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor

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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    (603) 686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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    Original Message


  • 12.  RE: Stwy B lyre

    Member
    Posted 06-07-2022 23:30
    I would recommend getting a motorcycle scissor jack and some short pieces of 4 x 4 pressure treated post as spacers. you can put it under the keybed in the center forward of the pedals you will need height to get the lyre to clear the floor and a mallet to unlock the interlocking butterfly plate . You can get one of those small inflatable air bags to help you support the lyre once it is jacked up. Use chalk to outline the top of the lyre so when you put things back on you will have a guide. You may as well rebuild the pedal box, replace bushings, the ravioili if it has one. Its probably safer to get all three new pedals so the plating matches. Worst thing is to get it all back and get squeaks and groans from the other two pedals. There may be damage further up in the sostenuto rail and connections. No pedals are made to be stood on. I had a YC in a school that a band member stepped on and bent the damper/sustain pedal. The replacement was a set of all three pedals mounted with dowels onto a pedal box bottom. The angry teen will be angrier when he has to pay for genuine S&S parts and your labor....

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    James Kelly
    Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
    Pawleys Island SC
    (843) 325-4357
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    Original Message


  • 13.  RE: Stwy B lyre

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-08-2022 08:36
    I just perused my 2016 price list (most recent one I have in the file) and indeed at that time you could buy single pedals. Hopefully that still stands. 

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor

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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    (603) 686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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    Original Message


  • 14.  RE: Stwy B lyre

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-09-2022 01:30
    If you have to pull the lyre, yes caster cups. Or, I can usually lift each corner of a B and use my foot to slide a block of wood under the casters. You should only need 1/4" to 3/8" of additional height for enough space unlock the male/female lyre mating plates if that model uses them which I believe it does.

    If the legs are good and sturdy I can also get under the treble and bass areas on hands and knees and use my back to lift up each side of the piano to put something under the casters. Should not have to even lift the nose end.

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    Tremaine Parsons RPT
    Georgetown CA
    (530) 333-9299
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    Original Message