Voicing

I have a new client that has a +/- 5 year old 6'2" Mason and Hamlin.  I have no experience voicing Mason and Hamlin pianos.  I primarily deal with Baldwin and Yamaha's with a smattering of Steinway's and Kawai's. The client is in need of some voicing.  The piano isn't bright (except the top 2 octaves, but she likes that part so I won't be really touching those) but the piano is very nasal.  The potential to sound great is there but everything just cuts off/chokes out too soon and sounds like it has a cold or something.

Anyone have some pointers on how to deal with this issue?  Is there anything special about Mason and Hamlin hammers that I should be aware of?

Obviously, I will deal with all the regulation needs to create a good foundation to build upon.  I would just like some pointers on how to tackle the voicing.  

Many thanks in advanced.

I have a new client that has a +/- 5 year old 6'2" Mason and Hamlin.  I have no experience voicing Mason and Hamlin pianos.  I primarily deal with Baldwin and Yamaha's with a smattering of Steinway's and Kawai's. The client is in need of some voicing.  The piano isn't bright (except the top 2 octaves, but she likes that part so I won't be really touching those) but the piano is very nasal.  The potential to sound great is there but everything just cuts off/chokes out too soon and sounds like it has a cold or something.

Anyone have some pointers on how to deal with this issue?  Is there anything special about Mason and Hamlin hammers that I should be aware of?

Obviously, I will deal with all the regulation needs to create a good foundation to build upon.  I would just like some pointers on how to tackle the voicing.  

Many thanks in advanced.

I have a new client that has a +/- 5 year old 6'2" Mason and Hamlin.  I have no experience voicing Mason and Hamlin pianos.  I primarily deal with Baldwin and Yamaha's with a smattering of Steinway's and Kawai's. The client is in need of some voicing.  The piano isn't bright (except the top 2 octaves, but she likes that part so I won't be really touching those) but the piano is very nasal.  The potential to sound great is there but everything just cuts off/chokes out too soon and sounds like it has a cold or something.

Anyone have some pointers on how to deal with this issue?  Is there anything special about Mason and Hamlin hammers that I should be aware of?

Obviously, I will deal with all the regulation needs to create a good foundation to build upon.  I would just like some pointers on how to tackle the voicing.  

Many thanks in advanced.

For a nasal tone, I would check & correct hammer to string mating first.  We should always check that of course, but especially in this case.  It also wouldn't hurt to pluck several strings with the individual damper lifted, to make sure the sustain isn't getting choked off by something _else_.

My experience with the latest M&H hammers is limited to a recent set of the WNG Natural Hammers.  I don't know if the piano in question has those.  But my set definitely responded well to deep needling in the 9-10 o'clock range, and a bit shallower going up toward the strike point.  YMMV.

I have a new client that has a +/- 5 year old 6'2" Mason and Hamlin.  I have no experience voicing Mason and Hamlin pianos.  I primarily deal with Baldwin and Yamaha's with a smattering of Steinway's and Kawai's. The client is in need of some voicing.  The piano isn't bright (except the top 2 octaves, but she likes that part so I won't be really touching those) but the piano is very nasal.  The potential to sound great is there but everything just cuts off/chokes out too soon and sounds like it has a cold or something.

Anyone have some pointers on how to deal with this issue?  Is there anything special about Mason and Hamlin hammers that I should be aware of?

Obviously, I will deal with all the regulation needs to create a good foundation to build upon.  I would just like some pointers on how to tackle the voicing.  

Many thanks in advanced.

I concur with Mr. Monteleone here. Deep needling in that area (9-10 o'clock) especially on the proximal side (the side closer to the player), giving more heed to the harder shoulder. Of course also being aware of travel and hammer angle which will help with hammer fitting to strings. 

For a nasal tone, I would check & correct hammer to string mating first.  We should always check that of course, but especially in this case.  It also wouldn't hurt to pluck several strings with the individual damper lifted, to make sure the sustain isn't getting choked off by something _else_.

My experience with the latest M&H hammers is limited to a recent set of the WNG Natural Hammers.  I don't know if the piano in question has those.  But my set definitely responded well to deep needling in the 9-10 o'clock range, and a bit shallower going up toward the strike point.  YMMV.

I have a new client that has a +/- 5 year old 6'2" Mason and Hamlin.  I have no experience voicing Mason and Hamlin pianos.  I primarily deal with Baldwin and Yamaha's with a smattering of Steinway's and Kawai's. The client is in need of some voicing.  The piano isn't bright (except the top 2 octaves, but she likes that part so I won't be really touching those) but the piano is very nasal.  The potential to sound great is there but everything just cuts off/chokes out too soon and sounds like it has a cold or something.

Anyone have some pointers on how to deal with this issue?  Is there anything special about Mason and Hamlin hammers that I should be aware of?

Obviously, I will deal with all the regulation needs to create a good foundation to build upon.  I would just like some pointers on how to tackle the voicing.  

Many thanks in advanced.

I concur with Mr. Monteleone here. Deep needling in that area (9-10 o'clock) especially on the proximal side (the side closer to the player), giving more heed to the harder shoulder. Of course also being aware of travel and hammer angle which will help with hammer fitting to strings. 

For a nasal tone, I would check & correct hammer to string mating first.  We should always check that of course, but especially in this case.  It also wouldn't hurt to pluck several strings with the individual damper lifted, to make sure the sustain isn't getting choked off by something _else_.

My experience with the latest M&H hammers is limited to a recent set of the WNG Natural Hammers.  I don't know if the piano in question has those.  But my set definitely responded well to deep needling in the 9-10 o'clock range, and a bit shallower going up toward the strike point.  YMMV.

I have a new client that has a +/- 5 year old 6'2" Mason and Hamlin.  I have no experience voicing Mason and Hamlin pianos.  I primarily deal with Baldwin and Yamaha's with a smattering of Steinway's and Kawai's. The client is in need of some voicing.  The piano isn't bright (except the top 2 octaves, but she likes that part so I won't be really touching those) but the piano is very nasal.  The potential to sound great is there but everything just cuts off/chokes out too soon and sounds like it has a cold or something.

Anyone have some pointers on how to deal with this issue?  Is there anything special about Mason and Hamlin hammers that I should be aware of?

Obviously, I will deal with all the regulation needs to create a good foundation to build upon.  I would just like some pointers on how to tackle the voicing.  

Many thanks in advanced.

Did you find you had to work pretty hard to get the needles in these at first? I had to start shallow and work my way in a bit.

I concur with Mr. Monteleone here. Deep needling in that area (9-10 o'clock) especially on the proximal side (the side closer to the player), giving more heed to the harder shoulder. Of course also being aware of travel and hammer angle which will help with hammer fitting to strings. 

For a nasal tone, I would check & correct hammer to string mating first.  We should always check that of course, but especially in this case.  It also wouldn't hurt to pluck several strings with the individual damper lifted, to make sure the sustain isn't getting choked off by something _else_.

My experience with the latest M&H hammers is limited to a recent set of the WNG Natural Hammers.  I don't know if the piano in question has those.  But my set definitely responded well to deep needling in the 9-10 o'clock range, and a bit shallower going up toward the strike point.  YMMV.

I have a new client that has a +/- 5 year old 6'2" Mason and Hamlin.  I have no experience voicing Mason and Hamlin pianos.  I primarily deal with Baldwin and Yamaha's with a smattering of Steinway's and Kawai's. The client is in need of some voicing.  The piano isn't bright (except the top 2 octaves, but she likes that part so I won't be really touching those) but the piano is very nasal.  The potential to sound great is there but everything just cuts off/chokes out too soon and sounds like it has a cold or something.

Anyone have some pointers on how to deal with this issue?  Is there anything special about Mason and Hamlin hammers that I should be aware of?

Obviously, I will deal with all the regulation needs to create a good foundation to build upon.  I would just like some pointers on how to tackle the voicing.  

Many thanks in advanced.

Did you find you had to work pretty hard to get the needles in these at first? I had to start shallow and work my way in a bit.

I concur with Mr. Monteleone here. Deep needling in that area (9-10 o'clock) especially on the proximal side (the side closer to the player), giving more heed to the harder shoulder. Of course also being aware of travel and hammer angle which will help with hammer fitting to strings. 

For a nasal tone, I would check & correct hammer to string mating first.  We should always check that of course, but especially in this case.  It also wouldn't hurt to pluck several strings with the individual damper lifted, to make sure the sustain isn't getting choked off by something _else_.

My experience with the latest M&H hammers is limited to a recent set of the WNG Natural Hammers.  I don't know if the piano in question has those.  But my set definitely responded well to deep needling in the 9-10 o'clock range, and a bit shallower going up toward the strike point.  YMMV.

I have a new client that has a +/- 5 year old 6'2" Mason and Hamlin.  I have no experience voicing Mason and Hamlin pianos.  I primarily deal with Baldwin and Yamaha's with a smattering of Steinway's and Kawai's. The client is in need of some voicing.  The piano isn't bright (except the top 2 octaves, but she likes that part so I won't be really touching those) but the piano is very nasal.  The potential to sound great is there but everything just cuts off/chokes out too soon and sounds like it has a cold or something.

Anyone have some pointers on how to deal with this issue?  Is there anything special about Mason and Hamlin hammers that I should be aware of?

Obviously, I will deal with all the regulation needs to create a good foundation to build upon.  I would just like some pointers on how to tackle the voicing.  

Many thanks in advanced.

Did you find you had to work pretty hard to get the needles in these at first? I had to start shallow and work my way in a bit.

I concur with Mr. Monteleone here. Deep needling in that area (9-10 o'clock) especially on the proximal side (the side closer to the player), giving more heed to the harder shoulder. Of course also being aware of travel and hammer angle which will help with hammer fitting to strings. 

For a nasal tone, I would check & correct hammer to string mating first.  We should always check that of course, but especially in this case.  It also wouldn't hurt to pluck several strings with the individual damper lifted, to make sure the sustain isn't getting choked off by something _else_.

My experience with the latest M&H hammers is limited to a recent set of the WNG Natural Hammers.  I don't know if the piano in question has those.  But my set definitely responded well to deep needling in the 9-10 o'clock range, and a bit shallower going up toward the strike point.  YMMV.

I have a new client that has a +/- 5 year old 6'2" Mason and Hamlin.  I have no experience voicing Mason and Hamlin pianos.  I primarily deal with Baldwin and Yamaha's with a smattering of Steinway's and Kawai's. The client is in need of some voicing.  The piano isn't bright (except the top 2 octaves, but she likes that part so I won't be really touching those) but the piano is very nasal.  The potential to sound great is there but everything just cuts off/chokes out too soon and sounds like it has a cold or something.

Anyone have some pointers on how to deal with this issue?  Is there anything special about Mason and Hamlin hammers that I should be aware of?

Obviously, I will deal with all the regulation needs to create a good foundation to build upon.  I would just like some pointers on how to tackle the voicing.  

Many thanks in advanced.

I agree with the idea that the basic principles of voicing are the same for any hammer. Probably the most important is laying the foundation so that each hammer is focused on its strings. That means starting with meticulous travel and  hammer squaring (vertical on its shank, in line with the arc of travel of the shank), so that the hammer moves directly vertically, no wobble (firm pinning is a prerequisite for this). Then level strings and file hammers so that their profile is correct and so that the crowns are perfectly square to the vertical travel of the shank. Touch up mating as needed.

No shortcuts. Simply do it as a matter of course. Until you have done this work, any "voicing" you do is lipstick on a pig, because you haven't addressed what is fundamentally important: unison strings that are impacted simultaneously. If there isn't simultaneity, there will be out of phase vibrations, and they will be chaotic, varying from unison to unison and within a unison depending on the strength of the blow. There will also be extraneous tonal components, including nasal sounds, zingy sounds, dead sounds, etc. 

Once this foundation is laid, you have focus of tone and can proceed to needle, in order to expand the range of timbre.. In my experience, deep shoulder needling is essential (in softer pressed hammers as well as harder pressed). I prefer the pattern of needle insertion depicted in the attached photo, which is somewhat unconventional but has worked very well for me in hundreds of sets of hammers. The lines are 10 mm long. That is generally my minimum needle length for most of the piano (I often use 11 - 12 mm), tapering in the the top three octaves. 

Conventional diagrams show needles inserted radially, aimed from the surface directly to the core. I find that pattern is impossible to achieve more often than not, particularly with denser hammers. You are trying to penetrate an ever increasing density of felt fibers. When you start at the mid shoulder and aim to penetrate more or less parallel to the outer surface of the felt insertion is far easier. The first insertion opens up the outer felt, providing space for the next, parallel  insertion - somewhere for the felt to go, and this is progressive.  (If the felt is too dense for this, I use two needles instead of three, making two side by side lines up the surface of the hammer. In extreme cases I use one needle).

Moving up the shoulder toward the crown, the angle is changed gradually, until at the very top it is aimed outward,  leaving a pointed area of felt above the tip of the molding untouched. The pattern of opening the felt is the same as in most conventional drawings, but is achieved differently and more easily.

I simply do this pattern to every hammer, whether lacquered or not. The results are a broad range of timbral color that will need minimal touch up to even things out. Most of the touch up is quite near the middle of the crown.

Regards,
Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
fssturm@unm.edu

Youtube Spotify Deezer Apple Amazon 
http://fredsturm.net
www.artoftuning.com

"All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone. " Blaise Pascal

Did you find you had to work pretty hard to get the needles in these at first? I had to start shallow and work my way in a bit.

I concur with Mr. Monteleone here. Deep needling in that area (9-10 o'clock) especially on the proximal side (the side closer to the player), giving more heed to the harder shoulder. Of course also being aware of travel and hammer angle which will help with hammer fitting to strings. 

For a nasal tone, I would check & correct hammer to string mating first.  We should always check that of course, but especially in this case.  It also wouldn't hurt to pluck several strings with the individual damper lifted, to make sure the sustain isn't getting choked off by something _else_.

My experience with the latest M&H hammers is limited to a recent set of the WNG Natural Hammers.  I don't know if the piano in question has those.  But my set definitely responded well to deep needling in the 9-10 o'clock range, and a bit shallower going up toward the strike point.  YMMV.

I have a new client that has a +/- 5 year old 6'2" Mason and Hamlin.  I have no experience voicing Mason and Hamlin pianos.  I primarily deal with Baldwin and Yamaha's with a smattering of Steinway's and Kawai's. The client is in need of some voicing.  The piano isn't bright (except the top 2 octaves, but she likes that part so I won't be really touching those) but the piano is very nasal.  The potential to sound great is there but everything just cuts off/chokes out too soon and sounds like it has a cold or something.

Anyone have some pointers on how to deal with this issue?  Is there anything special about Mason and Hamlin hammers that I should be aware of?

Obviously, I will deal with all the regulation needs to create a good foundation to build upon.  I would just like some pointers on how to tackle the voicing.  

Many thanks in advanced.

I agree with the idea that the basic principles of voicing are the same for any hammer. Probably the most important is laying the foundation so that each hammer is focused on its strings. That means starting with meticulous travel and  hammer squaring (vertical on its shank, in line with the arc of travel of the shank), so that the hammer moves directly vertically, no wobble (firm pinning is a prerequisite for this). Then level strings and file hammers so that their profile is correct and so that the crowns are perfectly square to the vertical travel of the shank. Touch up mating as needed.

No shortcuts. Simply do it as a matter of course. Until you have done this work, any "voicing" you do is lipstick on a pig, because you haven't addressed what is fundamentally important: unison strings that are impacted simultaneously. If there isn't simultaneity, there will be out of phase vibrations, and they will be chaotic, varying from unison to unison and within a unison depending on the strength of the blow. There will also be extraneous tonal components, including nasal sounds, zingy sounds, dead sounds, etc. 

Once this foundation is laid, you have focus of tone and can proceed to needle, in order to expand the range of timbre.. In my experience, deep shoulder needling is essential (in softer pressed hammers as well as harder pressed). I prefer the pattern of needle insertion depicted in the attached photo, which is somewhat unconventional but has worked very well for me in hundreds of sets of hammers. The lines are 10 mm long. That is generally my minimum needle length for most of the piano (I often use 11 - 12 mm), tapering in the the top three octaves. 

Conventional diagrams show needles inserted radially, aimed from the surface directly to the core. I find that pattern is impossible to achieve more often than not, particularly with denser hammers. You are trying to penetrate an ever increasing density of felt fibers. When you start at the mid shoulder and aim to penetrate more or less parallel to the outer surface of the felt insertion is far easier. The first insertion opens up the outer felt, providing space for the next, parallel  insertion - somewhere for the felt to go, and this is progressive.  (If the felt is too dense for this, I use two needles instead of three, making two side by side lines up the surface of the hammer. In extreme cases I use one needle).

Moving up the shoulder toward the crown, the angle is changed gradually, until at the very top it is aimed outward,  leaving a pointed area of felt above the tip of the molding untouched. The pattern of opening the felt is the same as in most conventional drawings, but is achieved differently and more easily.

I simply do this pattern to every hammer, whether lacquered or not. The results are a broad range of timbral color that will need minimal touch up to even things out. Most of the touch up is quite near the middle of the crown.

Regards,
Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
fssturm@unm.edu

Youtube Spotify Deezer Apple Amazon 
http://fredsturm.net
www.artoftuning.com

"All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone. " Blaise Pascal

Did you find you had to work pretty hard to get the needles in these at first? I had to start shallow and work my way in a bit.

I concur with Mr. Monteleone here. Deep needling in that area (9-10 o'clock) especially on the proximal side (the side closer to the player), giving more heed to the harder shoulder. Of course also being aware of travel and hammer angle which will help with hammer fitting to strings. 

For a nasal tone, I would check & correct hammer to string mating first.  We should always check that of course, but especially in this case.  It also wouldn't hurt to pluck several strings with the individual damper lifted, to make sure the sustain isn't getting choked off by something _else_.

My experience with the latest M&H hammers is limited to a recent set of the WNG Natural Hammers.  I don't know if the piano in question has those.  But my set definitely responded well to deep needling in the 9-10 o'clock range, and a bit shallower going up toward the strike point.  YMMV.

I have a new client that has a +/- 5 year old 6'2" Mason and Hamlin.  I have no experience voicing Mason and Hamlin pianos.  I primarily deal with Baldwin and Yamaha's with a smattering of Steinway's and Kawai's. The client is in need of some voicing.  The piano isn't bright (except the top 2 octaves, but she likes that part so I won't be really touching those) but the piano is very nasal.  The potential to sound great is there but everything just cuts off/chokes out too soon and sounds like it has a cold or something.

Anyone have some pointers on how to deal with this issue?  Is there anything special about Mason and Hamlin hammers that I should be aware of?

Obviously, I will deal with all the regulation needs to create a good foundation to build upon.  I would just like some pointers on how to tackle the voicing.  

Many thanks in advanced.

Thanks for the very useful visual. I was not going anywhere near that far down on the shoulder, and I need to try it. You are right that most of the diagrams scared me into not poking diagonally down into that area.

I agree with the idea that the basic principles of voicing are the same for any hammer. Probably the most important is laying the foundation so that each hammer is focused on its strings. That means starting with meticulous travel and  hammer squaring (vertical on its shank, in line with the arc of travel of the shank), so that the hammer moves directly vertically, no wobble (firm pinning is a prerequisite for this). Then level strings and file hammers so that their profile is correct and so that the crowns are perfectly square to the vertical travel of the shank. Touch up mating as needed.

No shortcuts. Simply do it as a matter of course. Until you have done this work, any "voicing" you do is lipstick on a pig, because you haven't addressed what is fundamentally important: unison strings that are impacted simultaneously. If there isn't simultaneity, there will be out of phase vibrations, and they will be chaotic, varying from unison to unison and within a unison depending on the strength of the blow. There will also be extraneous tonal components, including nasal sounds, zingy sounds, dead sounds, etc. 

Once this foundation is laid, you have focus of tone and can proceed to needle, in order to expand the range of timbre.. In my experience, deep shoulder needling is essential (in softer pressed hammers as well as harder pressed). I prefer the pattern of needle insertion depicted in the attached photo, which is somewhat unconventional but has worked very well for me in hundreds of sets of hammers. The lines are 10 mm long. That is generally my minimum needle length for most of the piano (I often use 11 - 12 mm), tapering in the the top three octaves. 

Conventional diagrams show needles inserted radially, aimed from the surface directly to the core. I find that pattern is impossible to achieve more often than not, particularly with denser hammers. You are trying to penetrate an ever increasing density of felt fibers. When you start at the mid shoulder and aim to penetrate more or less parallel to the outer surface of the felt insertion is far easier. The first insertion opens up the outer felt, providing space for the next, parallel  insertion - somewhere for the felt to go, and this is progressive.  (If the felt is too dense for this, I use two needles instead of three, making two side by side lines up the surface of the hammer. In extreme cases I use one needle).

Moving up the shoulder toward the crown, the angle is changed gradually, until at the very top it is aimed outward,  leaving a pointed area of felt above the tip of the molding untouched. The pattern of opening the felt is the same as in most conventional drawings, but is achieved differently and more easily.

I simply do this pattern to every hammer, whether lacquered or not. The results are a broad range of timbral color that will need minimal touch up to even things out. Most of the touch up is quite near the middle of the crown.

Regards,
Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
fssturm@unm.edu

Youtube Spotify Deezer Apple Amazon 
http://fredsturm.net
www.artoftuning.com

"All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone. " Blaise Pascal

Did you find you had to work pretty hard to get the needles in these at first? I had to start shallow and work my way in a bit.

I concur with Mr. Monteleone here. Deep needling in that area (9-10 o'clock) especially on the proximal side (the side closer to the player), giving more heed to the harder shoulder. Of course also being aware of travel and hammer angle which will help with hammer fitting to strings. 

For a nasal tone, I would check & correct hammer to string mating first.  We should always check that of course, but especially in this case.  It also wouldn't hurt to pluck several strings with the individual damper lifted, to make sure the sustain isn't getting choked off by something _else_.

My experience with the latest M&H hammers is limited to a recent set of the WNG Natural Hammers.  I don't know if the piano in question has those.  But my set definitely responded well to deep needling in the 9-10 o'clock range, and a bit shallower going up toward the strike point.  YMMV.

I have a new client that has a +/- 5 year old 6'2" Mason and Hamlin.  I have no experience voicing Mason and Hamlin pianos.  I primarily deal with Baldwin and Yamaha's with a smattering of Steinway's and Kawai's. The client is in need of some voicing.  The piano isn't bright (except the top 2 octaves, but she likes that part so I won't be really touching those) but the piano is very nasal.  The potential to sound great is there but everything just cuts off/chokes out too soon and sounds like it has a cold or something.

Anyone have some pointers on how to deal with this issue?  Is there anything special about Mason and Hamlin hammers that I should be aware of?

Obviously, I will deal with all the regulation needs to create a good foundation to build upon.  I would just like some pointers on how to tackle the voicing.  

Many thanks in advanced.

Thanks for the very useful visual. I was not going anywhere near that far down on the shoulder, and I need to try it. You are right that most of the diagrams scared me into not poking diagonally down into that area.

I agree with the idea that the basic principles of voicing are the same for any hammer. Probably the most important is laying the foundation so that each hammer is focused on its strings. That means starting with meticulous travel and  hammer squaring (vertical on its shank, in line with the arc of travel of the shank), so that the hammer moves directly vertically, no wobble (firm pinning is a prerequisite for this). Then level strings and file hammers so that their profile is correct and so that the crowns are perfectly square to the vertical travel of the shank. Touch up mating as needed.

No shortcuts. Simply do it as a matter of course. Until you have done this work, any "voicing" you do is lipstick on a pig, because you haven't addressed what is fundamentally important: unison strings that are impacted simultaneously. If there isn't simultaneity, there will be out of phase vibrations, and they will be chaotic, varying from unison to unison and within a unison depending on the strength of the blow. There will also be extraneous tonal components, including nasal sounds, zingy sounds, dead sounds, etc. 

Once this foundation is laid, you have focus of tone and can proceed to needle, in order to expand the range of timbre.. In my experience, deep shoulder needling is essential (in softer pressed hammers as well as harder pressed). I prefer the pattern of needle insertion depicted in the attached photo, which is somewhat unconventional but has worked very well for me in hundreds of sets of hammers. The lines are 10 mm long. That is generally my minimum needle length for most of the piano (I often use 11 - 12 mm), tapering in the the top three octaves. 

Conventional diagrams show needles inserted radially, aimed from the surface directly to the core. I find that pattern is impossible to achieve more often than not, particularly with denser hammers. You are trying to penetrate an ever increasing density of felt fibers. When you start at the mid shoulder and aim to penetrate more or less parallel to the outer surface of the felt insertion is far easier. The first insertion opens up the outer felt, providing space for the next, parallel  insertion - somewhere for the felt to go, and this is progressive.  (If the felt is too dense for this, I use two needles instead of three, making two side by side lines up the surface of the hammer. In extreme cases I use one needle).

Moving up the shoulder toward the crown, the angle is changed gradually, until at the very top it is aimed outward,  leaving a pointed area of felt above the tip of the molding untouched. The pattern of opening the felt is the same as in most conventional drawings, but is achieved differently and more easily.

I simply do this pattern to every hammer, whether lacquered or not. The results are a broad range of timbral color that will need minimal touch up to even things out. Most of the touch up is quite near the middle of the crown.

Regards,
Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
fssturm@unm.edu

Youtube Spotify Deezer Apple Amazon 
http://fredsturm.net
www.artoftuning.com

"All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone. " Blaise Pascal

Did you find you had to work pretty hard to get the needles in these at first? I had to start shallow and work my way in a bit.

I concur with Mr. Monteleone here. Deep needling in that area (9-10 o'clock) especially on the proximal side (the side closer to the player), giving more heed to the harder shoulder. Of course also being aware of travel and hammer angle which will help with hammer fitting to strings. 

For a nasal tone, I would check & correct hammer to string mating first.  We should always check that of course, but especially in this case.  It also wouldn't hurt to pluck several strings with the individual damper lifted, to make sure the sustain isn't getting choked off by something _else_.

My experience with the latest M&H hammers is limited to a recent set of the WNG Natural Hammers.  I don't know if the piano in question has those.  But my set definitely responded well to deep needling in the 9-10 o'clock range, and a bit shallower going up toward the strike point.  YMMV.

I have a new client that has a +/- 5 year old 6'2" Mason and Hamlin.  I have no experience voicing Mason and Hamlin pianos.  I primarily deal with Baldwin and Yamaha's with a smattering of Steinway's and Kawai's. The client is in need of some voicing.  The piano isn't bright (except the top 2 octaves, but she likes that part so I won't be really touching those) but the piano is very nasal.  The potential to sound great is there but everything just cuts off/chokes out too soon and sounds like it has a cold or something.

Anyone have some pointers on how to deal with this issue?  Is there anything special about Mason and Hamlin hammers that I should be aware of?

Obviously, I will deal with all the regulation needs to create a good foundation to build upon.  I would just like some pointers on how to tackle the voicing.  

Many thanks in advanced.

Thanks for the very useful visual. I was not going anywhere near that far down on the shoulder, and I need to try it. You are right that most of the diagrams scared me into not poking diagonally down into that area.

I agree with the idea that the basic principles of voicing are the same for any hammer. Probably the most important is laying the foundation so that each hammer is focused on its strings. That means starting with meticulous travel and  hammer squaring (vertical on its shank, in line with the arc of travel of the shank), so that the hammer moves directly vertically, no wobble (firm pinning is a prerequisite for this). Then level strings and file hammers so that their profile is correct and so that the crowns are perfectly square to the vertical travel of the shank. Touch up mating as needed.

No shortcuts. Simply do it as a matter of course. Until you have done this work, any "voicing" you do is lipstick on a pig, because you haven't addressed what is fundamentally important: unison strings that are impacted simultaneously. If there isn't simultaneity, there will be out of phase vibrations, and they will be chaotic, varying from unison to unison and within a unison depending on the strength of the blow. There will also be extraneous tonal components, including nasal sounds, zingy sounds, dead sounds, etc. 

Once this foundation is laid, you have focus of tone and can proceed to needle, in order to expand the range of timbre.. In my experience, deep shoulder needling is essential (in softer pressed hammers as well as harder pressed). I prefer the pattern of needle insertion depicted in the attached photo, which is somewhat unconventional but has worked very well for me in hundreds of sets of hammers. The lines are 10 mm long. That is generally my minimum needle length for most of the piano (I often use 11 - 12 mm), tapering in the the top three octaves. 

Conventional diagrams show needles inserted radially, aimed from the surface directly to the core. I find that pattern is impossible to achieve more often than not, particularly with denser hammers. You are trying to penetrate an ever increasing density of felt fibers. When you start at the mid shoulder and aim to penetrate more or less parallel to the outer surface of the felt insertion is far easier. The first insertion opens up the outer felt, providing space for the next, parallel  insertion - somewhere for the felt to go, and this is progressive.  (If the felt is too dense for this, I use two needles instead of three, making two side by side lines up the surface of the hammer. In extreme cases I use one needle).

Moving up the shoulder toward the crown, the angle is changed gradually, until at the very top it is aimed outward,  leaving a pointed area of felt above the tip of the molding untouched. The pattern of opening the felt is the same as in most conventional drawings, but is achieved differently and more easily.

I simply do this pattern to every hammer, whether lacquered or not. The results are a broad range of timbral color that will need minimal touch up to even things out. Most of the touch up is quite near the middle of the crown.

Regards,
Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
fssturm@unm.edu

Youtube Spotify Deezer Apple Amazon 
http://fredsturm.net
www.artoftuning.com

"All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone. " Blaise Pascal

Did you find you had to work pretty hard to get the needles in these at first? I had to start shallow and work my way in a bit.

I concur with Mr. Monteleone here. Deep needling in that area (9-10 o'clock) especially on the proximal side (the side closer to the player), giving more heed to the harder shoulder. Of course also being aware of travel and hammer angle which will help with hammer fitting to strings. 

For a nasal tone, I would check & correct hammer to string mating first.  We should always check that of course, but especially in this case.  It also wouldn't hurt to pluck several strings with the individual damper lifted, to make sure the sustain isn't getting choked off by something _else_.

My experience with the latest M&H hammers is limited to a recent set of the WNG Natural Hammers.  I don't know if the piano in question has those.  But my set definitely responded well to deep needling in the 9-10 o'clock range, and a bit shallower going up toward the strike point.  YMMV.

I have a new client that has a +/- 5 year old 6'2" Mason and Hamlin.  I have no experience voicing Mason and Hamlin pianos.  I primarily deal with Baldwin and Yamaha's with a smattering of Steinway's and Kawai's. The client is in need of some voicing.  The piano isn't bright (except the top 2 octaves, but she likes that part so I won't be really touching those) but the piano is very nasal.  The potential to sound great is there but everything just cuts off/chokes out too soon and sounds like it has a cold or something.

Anyone have some pointers on how to deal with this issue?  Is there anything special about Mason and Hamlin hammers that I should be aware of?

Obviously, I will deal with all the regulation needs to create a good foundation to build upon.  I would just like some pointers on how to tackle the voicing.  

Many thanks in advanced.

Thanks for the very useful visual. I was not going anywhere near that far down on the shoulder, and I need to try it. You are right that most of the diagrams scared me into not poking diagonally down into that area.

I agree with the idea that the basic principles of voicing are the same for any hammer. Probably the most important is laying the foundation so that each hammer is focused on its strings. That means starting with meticulous travel and  hammer squaring (vertical on its shank, in line with the arc of travel of the shank), so that the hammer moves directly vertically, no wobble (firm pinning is a prerequisite for this). Then level strings and file hammers so that their profile is correct and so that the crowns are perfectly square to the vertical travel of the shank. Touch up mating as needed.

No shortcuts. Simply do it as a matter of course. Until you have done this work, any "voicing" you do is lipstick on a pig, because you haven't addressed what is fundamentally important: unison strings that are impacted simultaneously. If there isn't simultaneity, there will be out of phase vibrations, and they will be chaotic, varying from unison to unison and within a unison depending on the strength of the blow. There will also be extraneous tonal components, including nasal sounds, zingy sounds, dead sounds, etc. 

Once this foundation is laid, you have focus of tone and can proceed to needle, in order to expand the range of timbre.. In my experience, deep shoulder needling is essential (in softer pressed hammers as well as harder pressed). I prefer the pattern of needle insertion depicted in the attached photo, which is somewhat unconventional but has worked very well for me in hundreds of sets of hammers. The lines are 10 mm long. That is generally my minimum needle length for most of the piano (I often use 11 - 12 mm), tapering in the the top three octaves. 

Conventional diagrams show needles inserted radially, aimed from the surface directly to the core. I find that pattern is impossible to achieve more often than not, particularly with denser hammers. You are trying to penetrate an ever increasing density of felt fibers. When you start at the mid shoulder and aim to penetrate more or less parallel to the outer surface of the felt insertion is far easier. The first insertion opens up the outer felt, providing space for the next, parallel  insertion - somewhere for the felt to go, and this is progressive.  (If the felt is too dense for this, I use two needles instead of three, making two side by side lines up the surface of the hammer. In extreme cases I use one needle).

Moving up the shoulder toward the crown, the angle is changed gradually, until at the very top it is aimed outward,  leaving a pointed area of felt above the tip of the molding untouched. The pattern of opening the felt is the same as in most conventional drawings, but is achieved differently and more easily.

I simply do this pattern to every hammer, whether lacquered or not. The results are a broad range of timbral color that will need minimal touch up to even things out. Most of the touch up is quite near the middle of the crown.

Regards,
Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
fssturm@unm.edu

Youtube Spotify Deezer Apple Amazon 
http://fredsturm.net
www.artoftuning.com

"All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone. " Blaise Pascal

Did you find you had to work pretty hard to get the needles in these at first? I had to start shallow and work my way in a bit.

I concur with Mr. Monteleone here. Deep needling in that area (9-10 o'clock) especially on the proximal side (the side closer to the player), giving more heed to the harder shoulder. Of course also being aware of travel and hammer angle which will help with hammer fitting to strings. 

For a nasal tone, I would check & correct hammer to string mating first.  We should always check that of course, but especially in this case.  It also wouldn't hurt to pluck several strings with the individual damper lifted, to make sure the sustain isn't getting choked off by something _else_.

My experience with the latest M&H hammers is limited to a recent set of the WNG Natural Hammers.  I don't know if the piano in question has those.  But my set definitely responded well to deep needling in the 9-10 o'clock range, and a bit shallower going up toward the strike point.  YMMV.

I have a new client that has a +/- 5 year old 6'2" Mason and Hamlin.  I have no experience voicing Mason and Hamlin pianos.  I primarily deal with Baldwin and Yamaha's with a smattering of Steinway's and Kawai's. The client is in need of some voicing.  The piano isn't bright (except the top 2 octaves, but she likes that part so I won't be really touching those) but the piano is very nasal.  The potential to sound great is there but everything just cuts off/chokes out too soon and sounds like it has a cold or something.

Anyone have some pointers on how to deal with this issue?  Is there anything special about Mason and Hamlin hammers that I should be aware of?

Obviously, I will deal with all the regulation needs to create a good foundation to build upon.  I would just like some pointers on how to tackle the voicing.  

Many thanks in advanced.

I have seen videos, I think from Renner USA, of pre voicing before hanging, hammers held in a clamp. That is a reasonable procedure if you are replacing parts, but most of the time I am dealing with hammers that are already hung. For a grand, I support all the hammers above the tops of the back checks via a sturdy piece of angle iron suspended from one end to the keyboard to the other.

This enables me to do deep needle voicing at the bench, standing over and pressing the needles into the felt (aided by body weight) while not impacting shanks, glue joints or pinning. The pictured 3/4" x 3/4" angle iron is doubled in order to span such a length. More robust angle iron can be used without doubling.

Regards,

Fred Sturm

fssturm@unm.edu

Youtube Spotify Deezer Apple Amazon

www.artoftuning.com

http://fredsturm.net

"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge, but imagination." - Einstein

Thanks for the very useful visual. I was not going anywhere near that far down on the shoulder, and I need to try it. You are right that most of the diagrams scared me into not poking diagonally down into that area.

I agree with the idea that the basic principles of voicing are the same for any hammer. Probably the most important is laying the foundation so that each hammer is focused on its strings. That means starting with meticulous travel and  hammer squaring (vertical on its shank, in line with the arc of travel of the shank), so that the hammer moves directly vertically, no wobble (firm pinning is a prerequisite for this). Then level strings and file hammers so that their profile is correct and so that the crowns are perfectly square to the vertical travel of the shank. Touch up mating as needed.

No shortcuts. Simply do it as a matter of course. Until you have done this work, any "voicing" you do is lipstick on a pig, because you haven't addressed what is fundamentally important: unison strings that are impacted simultaneously. If there isn't simultaneity, there will be out of phase vibrations, and they will be chaotic, varying from unison to unison and within a unison depending on the strength of the blow. There will also be extraneous tonal components, including nasal sounds, zingy sounds, dead sounds, etc. 

Once this foundation is laid, you have focus of tone and can proceed to needle, in order to expand the range of timbre.. In my experience, deep shoulder needling is essential (in softer pressed hammers as well as harder pressed). I prefer the pattern of needle insertion depicted in the attached photo, which is somewhat unconventional but has worked very well for me in hundreds of sets of hammers. The lines are 10 mm long. That is generally my minimum needle length for most of the piano (I often use 11 - 12 mm), tapering in the the top three octaves. 

Conventional diagrams show needles inserted radially, aimed from the surface directly to the core. I find that pattern is impossible to achieve more often than not, particularly with denser hammers. You are trying to penetrate an ever increasing density of felt fibers. When you start at the mid shoulder and aim to penetrate more or less parallel to the outer surface of the felt insertion is far easier. The first insertion opens up the outer felt, providing space for the next, parallel  insertion - somewhere for the felt to go, and this is progressive.  (If the felt is too dense for this, I use two needles instead of three, making two side by side lines up the surface of the hammer. In extreme cases I use one needle).

Moving up the shoulder toward the crown, the angle is changed gradually, until at the very top it is aimed outward,  leaving a pointed area of felt above the tip of the molding untouched. The pattern of opening the felt is the same as in most conventional drawings, but is achieved differently and more easily.

I simply do this pattern to every hammer, whether lacquered or not. The results are a broad range of timbral color that will need minimal touch up to even things out. Most of the touch up is quite near the middle of the crown.

Regards,
Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
fssturm@unm.edu

Youtube Spotify Deezer Apple Amazon 
http://fredsturm.net
www.artoftuning.com

"All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone. " Blaise Pascal

Did you find you had to work pretty hard to get the needles in these at first? I had to start shallow and work my way in a bit.

I concur with Mr. Monteleone here. Deep needling in that area (9-10 o'clock) especially on the proximal side (the side closer to the player), giving more heed to the harder shoulder. Of course also being aware of travel and hammer angle which will help with hammer fitting to strings. 

For a nasal tone, I would check & correct hammer to string mating first.  We should always check that of course, but especially in this case.  It also wouldn't hurt to pluck several strings with the individual damper lifted, to make sure the sustain isn't getting choked off by something _else_.

My experience with the latest M&H hammers is limited to a recent set of the WNG Natural Hammers.  I don't know if the piano in question has those.  But my set definitely responded well to deep needling in the 9-10 o'clock range, and a bit shallower going up toward the strike point.  YMMV.

I have a new client that has a +/- 5 year old 6'2" Mason and Hamlin.  I have no experience voicing Mason and Hamlin pianos.  I primarily deal with Baldwin and Yamaha's with a smattering of Steinway's and Kawai's. The client is in need of some voicing.  The piano isn't bright (except the top 2 octaves, but she likes that part so I won't be really touching those) but the piano is very nasal.  The potential to sound great is there but everything just cuts off/chokes out too soon and sounds like it has a cold or something.

Anyone have some pointers on how to deal with this issue?  Is there anything special about Mason and Hamlin hammers that I should be aware of?

Obviously, I will deal with all the regulation needs to create a good foundation to build upon.  I would just like some pointers on how to tackle the voicing.  

Many thanks in advanced.