Pianotech

Does anyone have actual reports/documentation/surveys etc. which show the benefits of maintaining a consistent temperature in a building?  How this is actually -LESS- expensive than turning the system on and off.  I've had people tell me this, from their personal experience, but no documentation. Please share if you do.  Thanks!

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Sheffey Gregory, RPT
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I have charts showing the extremes that are experienced in several churches especially during the week between Sunday/Weekend services. I will often put a data logger in a church piano for a two week period setting the temp and rh high and low values as recommended by Dampp Chaser . The booklet that Dampp Chaser has explaining the damage humidity can inflict discusses the "safety range". There are some articles in the PTG Journal that discuss the effect of deep cycling. In one case a church had only and on/off switch for their AC. Nearly destroyed their C7 which I had to replace the whippens/hammers/shanks/flanges in because of damage from excess humidity. They put in a full dc/undercover and stringcover and all of the moldy carpet was replaced. Apparently the church spire was hit by lightening and most of the wiring in the church got fried. Rather than get a fully qualified HVAC contractor they had the landscapers friend "rewire" the hvac.

I have had many conversations with hvac contractors and there is truth that putting hvac on turbo then backing off is wearing down the equipment. It is also possible to create a fire hazard because components are overheating and/or running constantly. There needs to be a balance between temperature/humidity/comfort level. Once the budget committee sees a chart that looks like an earthquake recording and is told their valuable piano will need expensive work or replacement they seem to get religion  .
BTW their are also several good charts showing how temp and humidity intersect. It is also not just churches that have the problem - schools and residences do as well

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-08-2022 20:35
From: Sheffey Gregory
Subject: temperature control in churches

Does anyone have actual reports/documentation/surveys etc. which show the benefits of maintaining a consistent temperature in a building?  How this is actually -LESS- expensive than turning the system on and off.  I've had people tell me this, from their personal experience, but no documentation. Please share if you do.  Thanks!

------------------------------
Sheffey Gregory, RPT
------------------------------

I have no reports/documentation, etc., but I do have a church and a school that have told me that it's less expensive, for them, to bring me in as needed, sometimes monthly, than it is to maintain a constant environment in the buildings the pianos live in.

For the church, after I had the Steinway D rebuilt for the very large main worship center, and knowing that stability had always been a problem, we had them invest in a heavy piano cover that went clear down to the floor and installed a full dampp-chaser system. All of this in an effort to accommodate the sporadic use of the AC and attempt to keep the piano happy and reduce my service calls for tuning. The power cord to the dampp-chaser was broken so many times by people that should not have been moving the piano in the first place that I finally removed the whole thing and installed it on another needy piano in the same building. After a surprisingly short time they actually gave the high end cover away because it was too hard for them to take off and then put back on. That's about the time the conversation about frequency of service vs environmental control came up and I was told that "the board" decided I was the least expensive of the two. I now stay quiet and am happy to provide very frequent service to them, (and three pianos), and they are always glad to see me. 

A large community college that I provide service for, had two new art buildings built. In the one that housed the music and dance department, and the recital hall, they actually installed a controlled environment storage room just behind the stage for the relatively new Yamaha C7 and an older G7. Had it's own system including thermostat, AND humidity control built in. The AC for that room was supposed to send controlled moisture into the vents that serviced that room when it got too dry. Real professional job. Except the system was never completed and what was actually in there never actually worked right, they tell me. Also, nobody was ever shown how to actually use it so they were afraid of it. Once again, "the board" deemed it more economical to bring me in frequently than to correct the problem. Again, they're always glad to see me.

(later) - I realize I forgot to actually make my point, and that is that most non high profile bean counters are seldom able to see long term financial value of this kind of care, nor the value of the instrument itself. They are more interested in keeping expenses and the budget within the available funds they have at their disposal today. Long term budget planning probably rarely goes beyond the next budget review cycle. The church manages to allow a budget for my services that, with care, we can usually make last for an entire year. The school provides a budget that is actually only good for about four or five months, once a year. And at the end of that period we've always used up the entire budget save $20 or $30. After that they know that the practice rooms have to stay where they are and that recitals have to get put off. Their investment in the instruments, and the potential future need for repairs, or replacement, just never becomes part of the discussion. I'm sure my two examples are not unique. 


------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-08-2022 20:35
From: Sheffey Gregory
Subject: temperature control in churches

Does anyone have actual reports/documentation/surveys etc. which show the benefits of maintaining a consistent temperature in a building?  How this is actually -LESS- expensive than turning the system on and off.  I've had people tell me this, from their personal experience, but no documentation. Please share if you do.  Thanks!

------------------------------
Sheffey Gregory, RPT
------------------------------

Geoff

         I think you have nailed it . I have had similar issues here where the "boards" treat the bank account in institutions as if it is their personal money and they need to keep a big bank balance. Failure to budget properly or do what is right is ignored however it is short sighted. At some point the D will need extensive work or replacement and the same with the other instruments. Even though you get paid for frequent work on these pianos it is a real bad situation to be in. Down the  road board members will leave and you will be stuck when it hits the fan. I hate to say it but I would write up a report with graphs from a data logger that is current. At the same time the report should show what the current replacement cost of the instrument is as well as the cost of restringing, action replacement,soundboard repairs, bridge etc plus mention of loss of use.

Despite best efforts we make in the way of Dampp Chasers, piano string covers, piano case covers, storage practices, education about keeping systems plugged in and tanks filled, people do not follow the instructions, fail to use the covers etc.  

I had a contract to service pianos for our school district and worked on a proposal to purchase institutional grade pianos for most of the schools many using PSO/POS instruments. When it moved up the food chain it got tossed and instead money was allocated for new gyms 

BTW - one way to show rust on strings is to swipe a piece of white printer paper over the strings as well as take digital pictures.

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-08-2022 21:34
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: temperature control in churches

I have no reports/documentation, etc., but I do have a church and a school that have told me that it's less expensive, for them, to bring me in as needed, sometimes monthly, than it is to maintain a constant environment in the buildings the pianos live in.

For the church, after I had the Steinway D rebuilt for the very large main worship center, and knowing that stability had always been a problem, we had them invest in a heavy piano cover that went clear down to the floor and installed a full dampp-chaser system. All of this in an effort to accommodate the sporadic use of the AC and attempt to keep the piano happy and reduce my service calls for tuning. The power cord to the dampp-chaser was broken so many times by people that should not have been moving the piano in the first place that I finally removed the whole thing and installed it on another needy piano in the same building. After a surprisingly short time they actually gave the high end cover away because it was too hard for them to take off and then put back on. That's about the time the conversation about frequency of service vs environmental control came up and I was told that "the board" decided I was the least expensive of the two. I now stay quiet and am happy to provide very frequent service to them, (and three pianos), and they are always glad to see me.

A large community college that I provide service for, had two new art buildings built. In the one that housed the music and dance department, and the recital hall, they actually installed a controlled environment storage room just behind the stage for the relatively new Yamaha C7 and an older G7. Had it's own system including thermostat, AND humidity control built in. The AC for that room was supposed to send controlled moisture into the vents that serviced that room when it got too dry. Real professional job. Except the system was never completed and what was actually in there never actually worked right, they tell me. Also, nobody was ever shown how to actually use it so they were afraid of it. Once again, "the board" deemed it more economical to bring me in frequently than to correct the problem. Again, they're always glad to see me.

(later) - I realize I forgot to actually make my point, and that is that most non high profile bean counters are seldom able to see long term financial value of this kind of care, nor the value of the instrument itself. They are more interested in keeping expenses and the budget within the available funds they have at their disposal today. Long term budget planning probably rarely goes beyond the next budget review cycle. The church manages to allow a budget for my services that, with care, we can usually make last for an entire year. The school provides a budget that is actually only good for about four or five months, once a year. And at the end of that period we've always used up the entire budget save $20 or $30. After that they know that the practice rooms have to stay where they are and that recitals have to get put off. Their investment in the instruments, and the potential future need for repairs, or replacement, just never becomes part of the discussion. I'm sure my two examples are not unique.


------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA

Original Message:
Sent: 09-08-2022 20:35
From: Sheffey Gregory
Subject: temperature control in churches

Does anyone have actual reports/documentation/surveys etc. which show the benefits of maintaining a consistent temperature in a building?  How this is actually -LESS- expensive than turning the system on and off.  I've had people tell me this, from their personal experience, but no documentation. Please share if you do.  Thanks!

------------------------------
Sheffey Gregory, RPT
------------------------------

This so much depends on the climate you are in. Up here in the Pacific Northwest we don't get the extreme humidity swings that many parts of the country see. In the summer it rarely gets above the 60's in terms of relative humidity and in the winter even during the coldest weeks it rarely gets below 40 percent. 

Interestingly I have a church that never heats during the week but they do manage to keep the dampp-chaser plugged in with the cover on. Every time I show up to that piano it is almost spot on in tune. Another church keeps their temperature around 68 degrees constantly and the piano always goes quite flat. So, in my climate, I have seen a benefit to pianos in churches NOT being kept at a warmer temperature mainly because I believe it keeps the piano from getting dried out as much. It's the same in clients' homes: the people who keep the heat on constantly have much more tuning stability problems than those who let the rooms get cool. 

I feel for you folks who get that serious humidity in the summer! We are in a piano tune'rs paradise somewhat out here! Of course that means people put off their tunings longer...

------------------------------
Ryan Sowers RPT
Olympia WA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-09-2022 09:51
From: James Kelly
Subject: temperature control in churches

Geoff

         I think you have nailed it . I have had similar issues here where the "boards" treat the bank account in institutions as if it is their personal money and they need to keep a big bank balance. Failure to budget properly or do what is right is ignored however it is short sighted. At some point the D will need extensive work or replacement and the same with the other instruments. Even though you get paid for frequent work on these pianos it is a real bad situation to be in. Down the  road board members will leave and you will be stuck when it hits the fan. I hate to say it but I would write up a report with graphs from a data logger that is current. At the same time the report should show what the current replacement cost of the instrument is as well as the cost of restringing, action replacement,soundboard repairs, bridge etc plus mention of loss of use.

Despite best efforts we make in the way of Dampp Chasers, piano string covers, piano case covers, storage practices, education about keeping systems plugged in and tanks filled, people do not follow the instructions, fail to use the covers etc.

I had a contract to service pianos for our school district and worked on a proposal to purchase institutional grade pianos for most of the schools many using PSO/POS instruments. When it moved up the food chain it got tossed and instead money was allocated for new gyms

BTW - one way to show rust on strings is to swipe a piece of white printer paper over the strings as well as take digital pictures.

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 09-08-2022 21:34
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: temperature control in churches

I have no reports/documentation, etc., but I do have a church and a school that have told me that it's less expensive, for them, to bring me in as needed, sometimes monthly, than it is to maintain a constant environment in the buildings the pianos live in.

For the church, after I had the Steinway D rebuilt for the very large main worship center, and knowing that stability had always been a problem, we had them invest in a heavy piano cover that went clear down to the floor and installed a full dampp-chaser system. All of this in an effort to accommodate the sporadic use of the AC and attempt to keep the piano happy and reduce my service calls for tuning. The power cord to the dampp-chaser was broken so many times by people that should not have been moving the piano in the first place that I finally removed the whole thing and installed it on another needy piano in the same building. After a surprisingly short time they actually gave the high end cover away because it was too hard for them to take off and then put back on. That's about the time the conversation about frequency of service vs environmental control came up and I was told that "the board" decided I was the least expensive of the two. I now stay quiet and am happy to provide very frequent service to them, (and three pianos), and they are always glad to see me.

A large community college that I provide service for, had two new art buildings built. In the one that housed the music and dance department, and the recital hall, they actually installed a controlled environment storage room just behind the stage for the relatively new Yamaha C7 and an older G7. Had it's own system including thermostat, AND humidity control built in. The AC for that room was supposed to send controlled moisture into the vents that serviced that room when it got too dry. Real professional job. Except the system was never completed and what was actually in there never actually worked right, they tell me. Also, nobody was ever shown how to actually use it so they were afraid of it. Once again, "the board" deemed it more economical to bring me in frequently than to correct the problem. Again, they're always glad to see me.

(later) - I realize I forgot to actually make my point, and that is that most non high profile bean counters are seldom able to see long term financial value of this kind of care, nor the value of the instrument itself. They are more interested in keeping expenses and the budget within the available funds they have at their disposal today. Long term budget planning probably rarely goes beyond the next budget review cycle. The church manages to allow a budget for my services that, with care, we can usually make last for an entire year. The school provides a budget that is actually only good for about four or five months, once a year. And at the end of that period we've always used up the entire budget save $20 or $30. After that they know that the practice rooms have to stay where they are and that recitals have to get put off. Their investment in the instruments, and the potential future need for repairs, or replacement, just never becomes part of the discussion. I'm sure my two examples are not unique.


------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA

Original Message:
Sent: 09-08-2022 20:35
From: Sheffey Gregory
Subject: temperature control in churches

Does anyone have actual reports/documentation/surveys etc. which show the benefits of maintaining a consistent temperature in a building?  How this is actually -LESS- expensive than turning the system on and off.  I've had people tell me this, from their personal experience, but no documentation. Please share if you do.  Thanks!

------------------------------
Sheffey Gregory, RPT
------------------------------