Pianotech

Greetings,

A client who plays flute with the L. A. Philharmonic has a family heirloom Chickering grand, scale 121. The strings appear to be original. The plate says "A=435." She needs a piano at 440 (at least) to be able to play her flute with it for rehearsals at her home. 

This has been discussed in the past on these lists. An attempt to search the archives for previous posts dealing with this question of tuning "435" 121s to 440 produced posts from some time ago. Everything I found indicated that strings may break, if they have been sufficiently work-hardened over the years. Did not find any caution about the plate not being able to handle the increased tension.

As long as the plate is not at risk, I could propose that we try raising the pitch to 440 and what happens with the strings (knowing that we may lose some).

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12/21/2022 2:56:00 PM
From: Alan Eder
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

Greetings,

A client who plays flute with the L. A. Philharmonic has a family heirloom Chickering grand, scale 121. The strings appear to be original. The plate says "A=435." She needs a piano at 440 (at least) to be able to play her flute with it for rehearsals at her home. 

This has been discussed in the past on these lists. An attempt to search the archives for previous posts dealing with this question of tuning "435" 121s to 440 produced posts from some time ago. Everything I found indicated that strings may break, if they have been sufficiently work-hardened over the years. Did not find any caution about the plate not being able to handle the increased tension.

As long as the plate is not at risk, I could propose that we try raising the pitch to 440 and what happens with the strings (knowing that we may lose some).

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Thank you for the benefit of your experience, Edward. That is exactly the kind of information I was seeking, and all the more valuable from a source as credible as you.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12-21-2022 15:10
From: Edward Foote
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

Greetings, 

  I have done this several times without incident.  

Regards,

Original Message:
Sent: 12/21/2022 2:56:00 PM
From: Alan Eder
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

Greetings,

A client who plays flute with the L. A. Philharmonic has a family heirloom Chickering grand, scale 121. The strings appear to be original. The plate says "A=435." She needs a piano at 440 (at least) to be able to play her flute with it for rehearsals at her home.

This has been discussed in the past on these lists. An attempt to search the archives for previous posts dealing with this question of tuning "435" 121s to 440 produced posts from some time ago. Everything I found indicated that strings may break, if they have been sufficiently work-hardened over the years. Did not find any caution about the plate not being able to handle the increased tension.

As long as the plate is not at risk, I could propose that we try raising the pitch to 440 and what happens with the strings (knowing that we may lose some).

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Edward,

This is exactly the kind of information (empirical) that I was hoping for. And it's all the more valuable coming from a source as credible as you.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12-21-2022 15:10
From: Edward Foote
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

Greetings, 

  I have done this several times without incident.  

Regards,

Original Message:
Sent: 12/21/2022 2:56:00 PM
From: Alan Eder
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

Greetings,

A client who plays flute with the L. A. Philharmonic has a family heirloom Chickering grand, scale 121. The strings appear to be original. The plate says "A=435." She needs a piano at 440 (at least) to be able to play her flute with it for rehearsals at her home.

This has been discussed in the past on these lists. An attempt to search the archives for previous posts dealing with this question of tuning "435" 121s to 440 produced posts from some time ago. Everything I found indicated that strings may break, if they have been sufficiently work-hardened over the years. Did not find any caution about the plate not being able to handle the increased tension.

As long as the plate is not at risk, I could propose that we try raising the pitch to 440 and what happens with the strings (knowing that we may lose some).

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12/21/2022 3:57:00 PM
From: Alan Eder
Subject: RE: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

Edward,

This is exactly the kind of information (empirical) that I was hoping for. And it's all the more valuable coming from a source as credible as you.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12-21-2022 15:10
From: Edward Foote
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

Greetings, 

  I have done this several times without incident.  

Regards,

Original Message:
Sent: 12/21/2022 2:56:00 PM
From: Alan Eder
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

Greetings,

A client who plays flute with the L. A. Philharmonic has a family heirloom Chickering grand, scale 121. The strings appear to be original. The plate says "A=435." She needs a piano at 440 (at least) to be able to play her flute with it for rehearsals at her home.

This has been discussed in the past on these lists. An attempt to search the archives for previous posts dealing with this question of tuning "435" 121s to 440 produced posts from some time ago. Everything I found indicated that strings may break, if they have been sufficiently work-hardened over the years. Did not find any caution about the plate not being able to handle the increased tension.

As long as the plate is not at risk, I could propose that we try raising the pitch to 440 and what happens with the strings (knowing that we may lose some).

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Bill,

A=456? Yeowzuh!

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12-21-2022 22:08
From: William Shull
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

At the same time that Chickering was making the 121, it was making many pianos which logbooks say were tuned at both A 435 and other pianos which were tuned at high pitch, or A 456.  The logbooks indicated no difference otherwise in these pianos.   The company didn't seem to think it made any difference.  

Regards,

Bill

Bill Shull, RPT, M.Mus.

bdshull@aol.com

www.shullpiano.com

www.periodpiano.org

909 796-4226

Sent from my iPhone

Original Message:
Sent: 12/21/2022 3:57:00 PM
From: Alan Eder
Subject: RE: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

Edward,

This is exactly the kind of information (empirical) that I was hoping for. And it's all the more valuable coming from a source as credible as you.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 12-21-2022 15:10
From: Edward Foote
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

Greetings, 

  I have done this several times without incident.  

Regards,

Original Message:
Sent: 12/21/2022 2:56:00 PM
From: Alan Eder
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

Greetings,

A client who plays flute with the L. A. Philharmonic has a family heirloom Chickering grand, scale 121. The strings appear to be original. The plate says "A=435." She needs a piano at 440 (at least) to be able to play her flute with it for rehearsals at her home.

This has been discussed in the past on these lists. An attempt to search the archives for previous posts dealing with this question of tuning "435" 121s to 440 produced posts from some time ago. Everything I found indicated that strings may break, if they have been sufficiently work-hardened over the years. Did not find any caution about the plate not being able to handle the increased tension.

As long as the plate is not at risk, I could propose that we try raising the pitch to 440 and what happens with the strings (knowing that we may lose some).

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Edward,

This is just the kind of first-hand experience I was hoping for. And it's all the more valuable coming from a source as credible as you.

Thanks, 

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12-21-2022 15:10
From: Edward Foote
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

Greetings, 

  I have done this several times without incident.  

Regards,

Original Message:
Sent: 12/21/2022 2:56:00 PM
From: Alan Eder
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

Greetings,

A client who plays flute with the L. A. Philharmonic has a family heirloom Chickering grand, scale 121. The strings appear to be original. The plate says "A=435." She needs a piano at 440 (at least) to be able to play her flute with it for rehearsals at her home.

This has been discussed in the past on these lists. An attempt to search the archives for previous posts dealing with this question of tuning "435" 121s to 440 produced posts from some time ago. Everything I found indicated that strings may break, if they have been sufficiently work-hardened over the years. Did not find any caution about the plate not being able to handle the increased tension.

As long as the plate is not at risk, I could propose that we try raising the pitch to 440 and what happens with the strings (knowing that we may lose some).

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

I have done this a number of times with no problems on Scale 121 Chickerings The 435 is embossed on the plate as a reminder of the pitch at the time but the plates are over engineered and will take the tension. String breakage is a possibility anytime but keep in mind technicians do not break strings. Strings break. About three weeks ago i put my tuning lever on the middle string in the mid section and it exploded. Go for it

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12-21-2022 16:08
From: Alan Eder
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

Edward,

This is just the kind of first-hand experience I was hoping for. And it's all the more valuable coming from a source as credible as you.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 12-21-2022 15:10
From: Edward Foote
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

Greetings, 

  I have done this several times without incident.  

Regards,

Original Message:
Sent: 12/21/2022 2:56:00 PM
From: Alan Eder
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

Greetings,

A client who plays flute with the L. A. Philharmonic has a family heirloom Chickering grand, scale 121. The strings appear to be original. The plate says "A=435." She needs a piano at 440 (at least) to be able to play her flute with it for rehearsals at her home.

This has been discussed in the past on these lists. An attempt to search the archives for previous posts dealing with this question of tuning "435" 121s to 440 produced posts from some time ago. Everything I found indicated that strings may break, if they have been sufficiently work-hardened over the years. Did not find any caution about the plate not being able to handle the increased tension.

As long as the plate is not at risk, I could propose that we try raising the pitch to 440 and what happens with the strings (knowing that we may lose some).

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

I'll chime in with the rest. I've done this many times with no problems.

------------------------------
Maggie Jusiel, RPT
Athens, WV
(304)952-8615
mags@timandmaggie.net
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12-21-2022 17:53
From: James Kelly
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

I have done this a number of times with no problems on Scale 121 Chickerings The 435 is embossed on the plate as a reminder of the pitch at the time but the plates are over engineered and will take the tension. String breakage is a possibility anytime but keep in mind technicians do not break strings. Strings break. About three weeks ago i put my tuning lever on the middle string in the mid section and it exploded. Go for it

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 12-21-2022 16:08
From: Alan Eder
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

Edward,

This is just the kind of first-hand experience I was hoping for. And it's all the more valuable coming from a source as credible as you.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 12-21-2022 15:10
From: Edward Foote
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

Greetings, 

  I have done this several times without incident.  

Regards,

Original Message:
Sent: 12/21/2022 2:56:00 PM
From: Alan Eder
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

Greetings,

A client who plays flute with the L. A. Philharmonic has a family heirloom Chickering grand, scale 121. The strings appear to be original. The plate says "A=435." She needs a piano at 440 (at least) to be able to play her flute with it for rehearsals at her home.

This has been discussed in the past on these lists. An attempt to search the archives for previous posts dealing with this question of tuning "435" 121s to 440 produced posts from some time ago. Everything I found indicated that strings may break, if they have been sufficiently work-hardened over the years. Did not find any caution about the plate not being able to handle the increased tension.

As long as the plate is not at risk, I could propose that we try raising the pitch to 440 and what happens with the strings (knowing that we may lose some).

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Thanks Maggie and James for adding you voices to the chorus. The "ayes" have it!

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12-21-2022 17:56
From: Maggie Jusiel
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

I'll chime in with the rest. I've done this many times with no problems.

------------------------------
Maggie Jusiel, RPT
Athens, WV
(304)952-8615
mags@timandmaggie.net

Original Message:
Sent: 12-21-2022 17:53
From: James Kelly
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

I have done this a number of times with no problems on Scale 121 Chickerings The 435 is embossed on the plate as a reminder of the pitch at the time but the plates are over engineered and will take the tension. String breakage is a possibility anytime but keep in mind technicians do not break strings. Strings break. About three weeks ago i put my tuning lever on the middle string in the mid section and it exploded. Go for it

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 12-21-2022 16:08
From: Alan Eder
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

Edward,

This is just the kind of first-hand experience I was hoping for. And it's all the more valuable coming from a source as credible as you.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 12-21-2022 15:10
From: Edward Foote
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

Greetings, 

  I have done this several times without incident.  

Regards,

Original Message:
Sent: 12/21/2022 2:56:00 PM
From: Alan Eder
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

Greetings,

A client who plays flute with the L. A. Philharmonic has a family heirloom Chickering grand, scale 121. The strings appear to be original. The plate says "A=435." She needs a piano at 440 (at least) to be able to play her flute with it for rehearsals at her home.

This has been discussed in the past on these lists. An attempt to search the archives for previous posts dealing with this question of tuning "435" 121s to 440 produced posts from some time ago. Everything I found indicated that strings may break, if they have been sufficiently work-hardened over the years. Did not find any caution about the plate not being able to handle the increased tension.

As long as the plate is not at risk, I could propose that we try raising the pitch to 440 and what happens with the strings (knowing that we may lose some).

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

I too have done likewise. The plate is so incredibly overbuilt no amount of tension is likely to affect it. The wire of course depends. My rule of thumb is: after the 3rd string breaks I re-evaluate. 435 to 440 is less than 800 lbs total increase. Negligible

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12-21-2022 18:05
From: Alan Eder
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

Thanks Maggie and James for adding you voices to the chorus. The "ayes" have it!

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 12-21-2022 17:56
From: Maggie Jusiel
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

I'll chime in with the rest. I've done this many times with no problems.

------------------------------
Maggie Jusiel, RPT
Athens, WV
(304)952-8615
mags@timandmaggie.net

Original Message:
Sent: 12-21-2022 17:53
From: James Kelly
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

I have done this a number of times with no problems on Scale 121 Chickerings The 435 is embossed on the plate as a reminder of the pitch at the time but the plates are over engineered and will take the tension. String breakage is a possibility anytime but keep in mind technicians do not break strings. Strings break. About three weeks ago i put my tuning lever on the middle string in the mid section and it exploded. Go for it

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 12-21-2022 16:08
From: Alan Eder
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

Edward,

This is just the kind of first-hand experience I was hoping for. And it's all the more valuable coming from a source as credible as you.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 12-21-2022 15:10
From: Edward Foote
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

Greetings, 

  I have done this several times without incident.  

Regards,

Original Message:
Sent: 12/21/2022 2:56:00 PM
From: Alan Eder
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

Greetings,

A client who plays flute with the L. A. Philharmonic has a family heirloom Chickering grand, scale 121. The strings appear to be original. The plate says "A=435." She needs a piano at 440 (at least) to be able to play her flute with it for rehearsals at her home.

This has been discussed in the past on these lists. An attempt to search the archives for previous posts dealing with this question of tuning "435" 121s to 440 produced posts from some time ago. Everything I found indicated that strings may break, if they have been sufficiently work-hardened over the years. Did not find any caution about the plate not being able to handle the increased tension.

As long as the plate is not at risk, I could propose that we try raising the pitch to 440 and what happens with the strings (knowing that we may lose some).

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Thank you, Dr. Grey!

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12-22-2022 10:15
From: Peter Grey
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

I too have done likewise. The plate is so incredibly overbuilt no amount of tension is likely to affect it. The wire of course depends. My rule of thumb is: after the 3rd string breaks I re-evaluate. 435 to 440 is less than 800 lbs total increase. Negligible

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 12-21-2022 18:05
From: Alan Eder
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

Thanks Maggie and James for adding you voices to the chorus. The "ayes" have it!

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 12-21-2022 17:56
From: Maggie Jusiel
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

I'll chime in with the rest. I've done this many times with no problems.

------------------------------
Maggie Jusiel, RPT
Athens, WV
(304)952-8615
mags@timandmaggie.net

Original Message:
Sent: 12-21-2022 17:53
From: James Kelly
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

I have done this a number of times with no problems on Scale 121 Chickerings The 435 is embossed on the plate as a reminder of the pitch at the time but the plates are over engineered and will take the tension. String breakage is a possibility anytime but keep in mind technicians do not break strings. Strings break. About three weeks ago i put my tuning lever on the middle string in the mid section and it exploded. Go for it

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 12-21-2022 16:08
From: Alan Eder
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

Edward,

This is just the kind of first-hand experience I was hoping for. And it's all the more valuable coming from a source as credible as you.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 12-21-2022 15:10
From: Edward Foote
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

Greetings, 

  I have done this several times without incident.  

Regards,

Original Message:
Sent: 12/21/2022 2:56:00 PM
From: Alan Eder
Subject: tune "A=435" Chickering 121 to A=440?

Greetings,

A client who plays flute with the L. A. Philharmonic has a family heirloom Chickering grand, scale 121. The strings appear to be original. The plate says "A=435." She needs a piano at 440 (at least) to be able to play her flute with it for rehearsals at her home.

This has been discussed in the past on these lists. An attempt to search the archives for previous posts dealing with this question of tuning "435" 121s to 440 produced posts from some time ago. Everything I found indicated that strings may break, if they have been sufficiently work-hardened over the years. Did not find any caution about the plate not being able to handle the increased tension.

As long as the plate is not at risk, I could propose that we try raising the pitch to 440 and what happens with the strings (knowing that we may lose some).

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------