Jason, I also looked over the Education Hub on the PTG Web site. Good work by all. I am reluctant to click on the links that you provide in your post – since they are not a PTG site and I would not want "foreign" code to execute on my home computer. But I have a few general comments from what you posted:
-) On the "Hearing Intervals" chart, I suggest making it clear (like on the PTG page) that they are "almost-coincident" partials which results in an interference beating. Not truly coincident.
-) For "Hearing Partials." I suggest (as an alternative) what I do with my interested customers and students using their piano. Play the fundamental on the piano and hold individual higher dampers off for hearing (or not hearing) increasing partials. Or doing it in the reverse manner to create sympathetic vibrations in the fundamental tone is often more interesting.
-) For "Tuning Intervals With Coincident Partials." (I also looked at this section on the Education Hub.) I may be wrong (!) but I get the clear message that PTG is advocating a tuning approach other than the industry standard of 12 TET based on the octave ("Equal Temperament"). Advocating perfect octaves, while also striving for perfect fifths, and/or perfect fourths, and/or perfect twelfths, is not ET and is mathematically and physically impossible in an ET tuning. Yes, even including consideration of inharmonicity and discussing/hearing physical intervals versus musical intervals. At least, IMHO, include a warning of the inconsistencies and "non-standards" involved in the chart.
-) For "Tuning Unisons." Using intervals in tuning unisons is an interesting concept -- academically interesting and it could work in practice. But if you can pick out the perfect unisons (within ½ cent) on the Education Hub, it surprises me that this interval-based approach is advocated here. I would be surprised if anyone uses it -- maybe I am just missing the point?
Thanks for posting, Jason. Feel free to contact me direct if I can be of further assistance. Regards, Norman.
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Norman Brickman
Potomac Piano Service
Potomac, Maryland
potomacpiano@verizon.net
https://potomacpiano.com
(301) 983.9321
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Original Message:
Sent: 01-04-2024 13:28
From: James Kelly
Subject: Tuning Modules - Comments Needed!
WHEN I HAVE SOME TIME I WILL TRY THEM OUT AND KEEP NOTES. THIS IS GREAT WORK ALONG WITH THE PROJECT YOU OVERSAW WITH THE JOURNAL ARTICLE SEARCHES. I CAN NOT TELL YOU HOW MANY TIMES I HAVE USED THAT .
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James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
Original Message:
Sent: 01-04-2024 13:03
From: Jason Kanter
Subject: Tuning Modules - Comments Needed!
Yes, the comments button is specific to the page you are commenting on. I haven't had the spinning wheel, so perhaps a restart might help?
But these exercises contain many many audio files, so that might be an issue, but not for a fast processor.
Anyone else experience the exercises getting hung?
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Jason Kanter
Lynnwood WA
(425) 830-1561
Original Message:
Sent: 01-03-2024 23:00
From: Steven Rosenthal
Subject: Tuning Modules - Comments Needed!
Thanks Jason, I'm replying here because I'm not through the whole thing yet and I wasn't sure if the comments button on each page were specific to that exercise. I liked what I got through but after five or so minutes the wheel would just keep spinning and I couldn't go on unless I quit the browser and relaunched and I have a pretty powerful desktop with an M1 chip. Does this use a lot of memory or "cache". I don't know but that's what I ran into.
All the exercises look really useful. I think I personally would like some printed or printable documentation to go along with this; I suppose such already exists.
Thanks again, I'll keep working with it.
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Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129
Original Message:
Sent: 01-03-2024 16:07
From: Jason Kanter
Subject: Tuning Modules - Comments Needed!
Needed: Comments on Tuning Modules!
As part of the Education Committee, I've been working on a series of visual-and-auditory explanations and self-tests to assist in our understanding of piano tones. These are intended to be useful for individual tuners, for chapters, for mentors and mentees, and beyond. Train your ears!
The following modules are now open for comments (there's a comment pane to the right of every page). Use these links to access each module. There is always a password, and the password is always, all lowercase, the three-letter acronym of our organization. I'm pasting in screenshots of each, so they may get lost in translation; but the links should work.
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Hearing Intervals
the structure of each interval and their coincident partials
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Hearing Partials
hear (and see) all the partials of notes A#2, A#3, A#4, A#5, and A#6
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Hearing Cents
Listen to each interval in variations from beatless to 15 cents sharp or flat
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Tuning Intervals Using Coincident Partials
Turn the tuning lever and its note changes 1 cent at a time.
Five or six examples of each:
6:3 octaves with the m3-M6 test
4:2 octaves with the M3-M10 test
2:1 octaves with the M10-M17 test
3:2 fifths with the M6-M10 test
4:3 fourths with the M3-M6 test
3:1 twelfths with the M6-M17 test
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Tuning Unisons
You are tuning "String 2" of these unisons:
G1 using the M17 above
D2 using the M10 above
A2 using the M10 above
E3 using the M6 below
B3 using the M6 below
F#4 using the M10 below
C#5 using the M10 below
G#5 using the M17 below
D#6 using the M17 below
A#6 using the M17 below
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Sutton Clusters
A self-assessment designed to enhance aural discernment, concentrating on the slow-beating fourths and fifths. Conceived by Ed Sutton.
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These modules will be refined again based on your feedback. They will soon be accessed inside the Education Hub, but right now they are in final draft mode and your comments and suggestions will be most welcome!
Cheers and happy New Year.
Jason Kanter
PTG Education Committee
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Jason Kanter
Lynnwood WA
(425) 830-1561
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