Hi, I would purchase 2 boxes of tuning pins when replacing a pin block and sort them. Using the largest in the bass and smallest in the treble. I usually had 5 piles of TPs. If the previous rebuilder did not do this the pins were probably not the exact same size. I'm saying you probably mixed them up when reinstalling. Always support the pin block and the key bed (I've seen key beds crack up if they aren't supported as well) when installing the Tuning pins with a blow and keep your pin punch at the same angle as the tuning pin hole as not to do damage to the string side of the Tuning pin hole. A #4 tuning pin will rub on the cast iron plate and is not a good choice for repair or restoration.
Was there room to tap the pin in deeper (supporting the pin block and key bed)? Did you wait for your glue to dry to put you tuning pin in? How can you control the size of the hole if you let it dry first? Glue is a temporary fix and I believe a very last resort. Maybe the previous restorer didn't support the pin block and the laminates are all separated. How is glue going to do enough through a TP hole to fill those gaps? Maybe after 10 or 20 years thats all you will get with #4 tuning pins in an old pin block. Why not just recommend a rebuild?
I know a rebuilder that uses a plastic laminate to shim the understringing felt and CA glue/Acetone and others will melt the shim. I'm glad that you had success with backing up the TP.
I worked in a shop when I was still in school for Piano Tech work and he had broken a pin after he installed larger size tuning pins. It had to be punched through the hole. He never supported anything. I'm also sure that he never measured his Tuning pins and never reamed or brushed the pin holes.
Do no damage! Just my thoughts on this.
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Jessica Masse RPT
Western Michigan University
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Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2022 01:50
From: Scott Cole
Subject: very tight pin
Thanks for all the replies. At my last visit a couple of days ago, I started with the most simple answer: work the pin. It did seem to work and I'm no longer afraid the pin will break.
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Scott Cole, RPT
rvpianotuner.com
Talent, OR
(541-601-9033
Original Message:
Sent: 07-11-2022 08:11
From: Robert Anderson
Subject: very tight pin
I second the suggestion to measure all tuning pins, James. Back in my restringing days I decided to measure a set just to see how uniform the pins were. I found that I could easily sort them into 3 or 4 sizes and that they could be elliptical, not round, in cross section. The same pin could also have different diameter depending on where I measured. I extended this practice to measuring other things, e.g., strings and center pins. I don't mean that I did that always but it was worthwhile to do it once in order to find out the realistic range in a set of anything nominally round in cross section.
Bob Anderson
Tucson, AZ
Original Message:
Sent: 7/10/2022 12:46:00 PM
From: James Kelly
Subject: RE: very tight pin
I am not sure why you want or use medium CA for tightening a loose pin. I have treated over 100 pianos with thin CA but always making sure it is thin as well as fresh. The medium CA swabbed on the threads seems like it would lock the pin into the block. The thin finds its way into the gaps that have opened between the threads of the in and the walls of the block. I usually wait for the CA to fully cure and get a good snap sound as I free the pin. CA has been a miracle worker.
\
\You should contact John Parham in Raleigh I think he did a chaper technical on removing broken screws, agraffes and maybe tuning pins. I thought I read recently about getting broken pins out from the bottom of the tp hole. I should add that its important that it is very important to measure every tuning pin because there can be very minute differences even a box of new pins
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James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
Original Message:
Sent: 07-10-2022 11:33
From: Maggie Jusiel
Subject: very tight pin
I've had to deal with 2 broken pins, ever.
One was early in my career & I didn't know as much as I should have. I barely started tuning & the pin broke at pin block level. Must have been ready to break because I didn't put much pressure on it compared to the other pins. I tried hammering it down & didn't want to hit it hard enough to get the job done. I didn't have proper supports for the pin block. In hindsight, I wish I had gotten proper supports in place and hammered it. I tried a screw extractor and you all know how that went. I ended up drilling it out and put in a new pin. It was fine after that.
The second was more recent and came with something that will be of interest. A pin was broken when I arrived, at the pin block. The previous tuner didn't tell the owner and just removed the string (one string per hitch pin). I had proper support so hammered it out (made a video...lol) and replaced it. While tuning, there was ONE other pin that was so tight I was sure I would break it if I forced it. I called a tech friend who learned some things about this. He advised me to drop a bit of Protek around the pin. I know that sounds like sacrilege but he had done this several times and it always came out well. SO, I did. It worked beautifully. It is now 5-6 years later and the pin is perfect, no looser than the pins around it. *shrug*
Since this problem is with CA, I'm not sure I would recommend the same thing, but food for thought. ;-)
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Maggie Jusiel, RPT
Athens, WV
(304)952-8615
mags@timandmaggie.net
Original Message:
Sent: 07-10-2022 10:32
From: Scott Cole
Subject: very tight pin
Just found an article by Bill Spurlock in a Journal from 1994 on this very subject. He also suggested to heat the pin, or even drive it back out from the other side if possible (doubtful on a grand).
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Scott Cole, RPT
rvpianotuner.com
Talent, OR
(541-601-9033
Original Message:
Sent: 07-10-2022 07:04
From: William Motsko
Subject: very tight pin
You could try to use a heat source like a soldering iron on the tuning pin. Keep in mind that the heat transfer will also affect the
tuning on that string.
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William Motsko RPT
Columbia MD
(410) 740-7342
Original Message:
Sent: 07-09-2022 12:32
From: Scott Cole
Subject: very tight pin
I've got a little problem: I have a customer with a Steinway M. It was poorly restrung 30 years ago, but at this point I'm sure she doesn't want to pay for more work. Two pins, I think size 4, needed more torque, and took the opportunity to try and fix them while replacing two non-matching bass strings. I removed both pins, swabbed the inside of the holes with medium CA, and hammered them back in. One turned out well, the other is ridiculously tight, even after multiple tunings. I have a feeling the medium CA is flexible enough to not wear in like the thin stuff. I can tune it, but I'm afraid one of these days I'm going to break the darn pin.
What are my options at this point? Remove the pin and try a smaller size? Ream the hole a bit, like with a gun-cleaning brush?
thanks!
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Scott Cole, RPT
rvpianotuner.com
Talent, OR
(541-601-9033
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