Pianotech

I’m looking to regulate a G1 from 1969 with original action parts. Strings may have been replaced at some point and it’s possible the plate has been removed also. Pinblock looks original, and though I see evidence of bowing down in the middle, torque throughout is very good.

I found the hammer travel at 41.5 mm. The most I could lower without running into the rest cushion was 2 mm. I’d like to be able to get at least 44 or preferably 45 mm (though 46 is ideal.) Key travel is 10.2 mm at the least, and obviously this creates much too much aftertouch. Hammer bore seems good (equal to string height minus flange center.)
Even with the pinblock bowing, there’s ample space for drop screws. Back rail cloth height seems rather thick, though appears original. There’s room under the fall board to raise the key height a couple of mm, so lowering the back rail felt is possible to try for more hammer travel. I have not adjusted the glides though they are near enough to create a good regulation foundation.

Where might elsewhere I look to gain more hammer travel? Cut down rest felt? Plane down action feet rests (cleats?)
Obviously I’m hoping to get the piano feeling better and more responsive without causing a catastrophe in action ratio or touchweight.

Board and downbearing seem ok, tone is slightly weak, but ok I think for a 53 year old instrument.

Any input as to where to search for a good solution (or at least a decent compromise) highly appreciated!


Joe Wiencek
NYC

Setting your samples first should give you ideal specs for this particular instrument. I think figuring out exactly what you want should be the first step.

I'm assuming you're doing a full regulation on it, not just a partial regulation to restore aftertouch? If so, I would start with the key height. Try a few samples first and see if that solves your problem. If so, do the rest of the keys. That's where I'd start.

If you're doing a partial or touch-up regulation, personally I wouldn't sweat the 0.5mm difference between 43.5mm blow and 44mm blow, as long as you can achieve proper aftertouch and the tone isn't weakened because of that half of a millimeter. If you have the budget, it's better to adjust key height IMO than to leave it. But if you don't, you'll still make an improvement.

Of the other options you laid out, I'm most inclined to try replacing the back rail felt before the rest, as that's the easiest to undo if it doesn't work / makes things worse for whatever reason. 

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(256) 947-9999
www.professional-piano-services.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-23-2022 19:13
From: Joe Wiencek
Subject: Yamaha G1 regulation

I'm looking to regulate a G1 from 1969 with original action parts. Strings may have been replaced at some point and it's possible the plate has been removed also. Pinblock looks original, and though I see evidence of bowing down in the middle, torque throughout is very good.

I found the hammer travel at 41.5 mm. The most I could lower without running into the rest cushion was 2 mm. I'd like to be able to get at least 44 or preferably 45 mm (though 46 is ideal.) Key travel is 10.2 mm at the least, and obviously this creates much too much aftertouch. Hammer bore seems good (equal to string height minus flange center.)
Even with the pinblock bowing, there's ample space for drop screws. Back rail cloth height seems rather thick, though appears original. There's room under the fall board to raise the key height a couple of mm, so lowering the back rail felt is possible to try for more hammer travel. I have not adjusted the glides though they are near enough to create a good regulation foundation.

Where might elsewhere I look to gain more hammer travel? Cut down rest felt? Plane down action feet rests (cleats?)
Obviously I'm hoping to get the piano feeling better and more responsive without causing a catastrophe in action ratio or touchweight.

Board and downbearing seem ok, tone is slightly weak, but ok I think for a 53 year old instrument.

Any input as to where to search for a good solution (or at least a decent compromise) highly appreciated!


Joe Wiencek
NYC

Check the stack screws. Someone could have pinned the stack with the angle screws and it didn't seat.

I would remove the stack and keys to see if the back rail of the key frame is bedding. Someone could have tried to raise the key height and the back rail floated instead of the front rail. The keybed could have warped and the normal setting for the glide bolts went off. 

Check the wippen rail position. If the screws came loose, weird things happen. I just regulated a Schimmel concert grand and I found the wippen rail so loose I could move it 2mm either direction.
Those 3 things could raise the wippen cushions.

As for the pin block. I just restrung a G3 of the same era and I saw the bow in the pin block. I checked the screws and they were all loose. 3 were stripped. I would have thought a few of the screws would have been longer but they all only were in the block an inch. I had a brace to the floor and I put my pin block support under the middle, As I tightened everything, it came up !/8 inch, almost to flat. I had to peel the front duplex felt to get to several screws but they were all so loose it was worth it

------------------------------
Keith Roberts
owner
Hathaway Pines CA
(209) 770-4312
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-23-2022 19:13
From: Joe Wiencek
Subject: Yamaha G1 regulation

I'm looking to regulate a G1 from 1969 with original action parts. Strings may have been replaced at some point and it's possible the plate has been removed also. Pinblock looks original, and though I see evidence of bowing down in the middle, torque throughout is very good.

I found the hammer travel at 41.5 mm. The most I could lower without running into the rest cushion was 2 mm. I'd like to be able to get at least 44 or preferably 45 mm (though 46 is ideal.) Key travel is 10.2 mm at the least, and obviously this creates much too much aftertouch. Hammer bore seems good (equal to string height minus flange center.)
Even with the pinblock bowing, there's ample space for drop screws. Back rail cloth height seems rather thick, though appears original. There's room under the fall board to raise the key height a couple of mm, so lowering the back rail felt is possible to try for more hammer travel. I have not adjusted the glides though they are near enough to create a good regulation foundation.

Where might elsewhere I look to gain more hammer travel? Cut down rest felt? Plane down action feet rests (cleats?)
Obviously I'm hoping to get the piano feeling better and more responsive without causing a catastrophe in action ratio or touchweight.

Board and downbearing seem ok, tone is slightly weak, but ok I think for a 53 year old instrument.

Any input as to where to search for a good solution (or at least a decent compromise) highly appreciated!


Joe Wiencek
NYC

Something sounds way off so you need to start with the top stack bedding to the keyframe, the keyframe bedding/glide bolt/keybed foundation . The action spread needs to be checked and adjusted as needed. Plate screws may need to be tightened especially in the webbing area. If the action is all original there must be wear on the hammer felt. the felt on the whippens may be too thick/high . Try working on a few samples in each section and getting them right. Examine the pinblock closely by using an ipad or iphone camera to see cracks and where the bowing starts and stops. Maybe someone banged in tuning pins or replaced them and did not support the block

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-25-2022 10:42
From: Keith Roberts
Subject: Yamaha G1 regulation

Check the stack screws. Someone could have pinned the stack with the angle screws and it didn't seat.

I would remove the stack and keys to see if the back rail of the key frame is bedding. Someone could have tried to raise the key height and the back rail floated instead of the front rail. The keybed could have warped and the normal setting for the glide bolts went off.

Check the wippen rail position. If the screws came loose, weird things happen. I just regulated a Schimmel concert grand and I found the wippen rail so loose I could move it 2mm either direction.
Those 3 things could raise the wippen cushions.

As for the pin block. I just restrung a G3 of the same era and I saw the bow in the pin block. I checked the screws and they were all loose. 3 were stripped. I would have thought a few of the screws would have been longer but they all only were in the block an inch. I had a brace to the floor and I put my pin block support under the middle, As I tightened everything, it came up !/8 inch, almost to flat. I had to peel the front duplex felt to get to several screws but they were all so loose it was worth it

------------------------------
Keith Roberts
owner
Hathaway Pines CA
(209) 770-4312

Original Message:
Sent: 10-23-2022 19:13
From: Joe Wiencek
Subject: Yamaha G1 regulation

I'm looking to regulate a G1 from 1969 with original action parts. Strings may have been replaced at some point and it's possible the plate has been removed also. Pinblock looks original, and though I see evidence of bowing down in the middle, torque throughout is very good.

I found the hammer travel at 41.5 mm. The most I could lower without running into the rest cushion was 2 mm. I'd like to be able to get at least 44 or preferably 45 mm (though 46 is ideal.) Key travel is 10.2 mm at the least, and obviously this creates much too much aftertouch. Hammer bore seems good (equal to string height minus flange center.)
Even with the pinblock bowing, there's ample space for drop screws. Back rail cloth height seems rather thick, though appears original. There's room under the fall board to raise the key height a couple of mm, so lowering the back rail felt is possible to try for more hammer travel. I have not adjusted the glides though they are near enough to create a good regulation foundation.

Where might elsewhere I look to gain more hammer travel? Cut down rest felt? Plane down action feet rests (cleats?)
Obviously I'm hoping to get the piano feeling better and more responsive without causing a catastrophe in action ratio or touchweight.

Board and downbearing seem ok, tone is slightly weak, but ok I think for a 53 year old instrument.

Any input as to where to search for a good solution (or at least a decent compromise) highly appreciated!


Joe Wiencek
NYC

Much thanks for the responses. This is very helpful guidance. I didn’t think about the stack screws getting pinned, but that’s a certain possibility. Also the back rail bedding I hadn’t thought to. Funny, the client told me the hammers were shaped (poorly) and the action was regulated last summer. I couldn’t figure out which part was regulated, especially considering that I found the front rail propped up on the treble front leg bolt. I had thought perhaps the movers put the rear leg bolts on the front, but they were the same length. I did find an extra washer on the rear leg bolt which at least got me to be able to seat the front rail and not feel a drag on the keyframe when pulling out the action.

Joe Wiencek


Original Message:
Sent: 10/25/2022 11:25:00 AM
From: James Kelly
Subject: RE: Yamaha G1 regulation

Something sounds way off so you need to start with the top stack bedding to the keyframe, the keyframe bedding/glide bolt/keybed foundation . The action spread needs to be checked and adjusted as needed. Plate screws may need to be tightened especially in the webbing area. If the action is all original there must be wear on the hammer felt. the felt on the whippens may be too thick/high . Try working on a few samples in each section and getting them right. Examine the pinblock closely by using an ipad or iphone camera to see cracks and where the bowing starts and stops. Maybe someone banged in tuning pins or replaced them and did not support the block

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-25-2022 10:42
From: Keith Roberts
Subject: Yamaha G1 regulation

Check the stack screws. Someone could have pinned the stack with the angle screws and it didn't seat.

I would remove the stack and keys to see if the back rail of the key frame is bedding. Someone could have tried to raise the key height and the back rail floated instead of the front rail. The keybed could have warped and the normal setting for the glide bolts went off.

Check the wippen rail position. If the screws came loose, weird things happen. I just regulated a Schimmel concert grand and I found the wippen rail so loose I could move it 2mm either direction.
Those 3 things could raise the wippen cushions.

As for the pin block. I just restrung a G3 of the same era and I saw the bow in the pin block. I checked the screws and they were all loose. 3 were stripped. I would have thought a few of the screws would have been longer but they all only were in the block an inch. I had a brace to the floor and I put my pin block support under the middle, As I tightened everything, it came up !/8 inch, almost to flat. I had to peel the front duplex felt to get to several screws but they were all so loose it was worth it

------------------------------
Keith Roberts
owner
Hathaway Pines CA
(209) 770-4312

Original Message:
Sent: 10-23-2022 19:13
From: Joe Wiencek
Subject: Yamaha G1 regulation

I'm looking to regulate a G1 from 1969 with original action parts. Strings may have been replaced at some point and it's possible the plate has been removed also. Pinblock looks original, and though I see evidence of bowing down in the middle, torque throughout is very good.

I found the hammer travel at 41.5 mm. The most I could lower without running into the rest cushion was 2 mm. I'd like to be able to get at least 44 or preferably 45 mm (though 46 is ideal.) Key travel is 10.2 mm at the least, and obviously this creates much too much aftertouch. Hammer bore seems good (equal to string height minus flange center.)
Even with the pinblock bowing, there's ample space for drop screws. Back rail cloth height seems rather thick, though appears original. There's room under the fall board to raise the key height a couple of mm, so lowering the back rail felt is possible to try for more hammer travel. I have not adjusted the glides though they are near enough to create a good regulation foundation.

Where might elsewhere I look to gain more hammer travel? Cut down rest felt? Plane down action feet rests (cleats?)
Obviously I'm hoping to get the piano feeling better and more responsive without causing a catastrophe in action ratio or touchweight.

Board and downbearing seem ok, tone is slightly weak, but ok I think for a 53 year old instrument.

Any input as to where to search for a good solution (or at least a decent compromise) highly appreciated!


Joe Wiencek
NYC

Original Message:
Sent: 10/26/2022 10:58:00 PM
From: Joe Wiencek
Subject: RE: Yamaha G1 regulation

Much thanks for the responses. This is very helpful guidance. I didn’t think about the stack screws getting pinned, but that’s a certain possibility. Also the back rail bedding I hadn’t thought to. Funny, the client told me the hammers were shaped (poorly) and the action was regulated last summer. I couldn’t figure out which part was regulated, especially considering that I found the front rail propped up on the treble front leg bolt. I had thought perhaps the movers put the rear leg bolts on the front, but they were the same length. I did find an extra washer on the rear leg bolt which at least got me to be able to seat the front rail and not feel a drag on the keyframe when pulling out the action.

Joe Wiencek


Original Message:
Sent: 10/25/2022 11:25:00 AM
From: James Kelly
Subject: RE: Yamaha G1 regulation

Something sounds way off so you need to start with the top stack bedding to the keyframe, the keyframe bedding/glide bolt/keybed foundation . The action spread needs to be checked and adjusted as needed. Plate screws may need to be tightened especially in the webbing area. If the action is all original there must be wear on the hammer felt. the felt on the whippens may be too thick/high . Try working on a few samples in each section and getting them right. Examine the pinblock closely by using an ipad or iphone camera to see cracks and where the bowing starts and stops. Maybe someone banged in tuning pins or replaced them and did not support the block

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-25-2022 10:42
From: Keith Roberts
Subject: Yamaha G1 regulation

Check the stack screws. Someone could have pinned the stack with the angle screws and it didn't seat.

I would remove the stack and keys to see if the back rail of the key frame is bedding. Someone could have tried to raise the key height and the back rail floated instead of the front rail. The keybed could have warped and the normal setting for the glide bolts went off.

Check the wippen rail position. If the screws came loose, weird things happen. I just regulated a Schimmel concert grand and I found the wippen rail so loose I could move it 2mm either direction.
Those 3 things could raise the wippen cushions.

As for the pin block. I just restrung a G3 of the same era and I saw the bow in the pin block. I checked the screws and they were all loose. 3 were stripped. I would have thought a few of the screws would have been longer but they all only were in the block an inch. I had a brace to the floor and I put my pin block support under the middle, As I tightened everything, it came up !/8 inch, almost to flat. I had to peel the front duplex felt to get to several screws but they were all so loose it was worth it

------------------------------
Keith Roberts
owner
Hathaway Pines CA
(209) 770-4312

Original Message:
Sent: 10-23-2022 19:13
From: Joe Wiencek
Subject: Yamaha G1 regulation

I'm looking to regulate a G1 from 1969 with original action parts. Strings may have been replaced at some point and it's possible the plate has been removed also. Pinblock looks original, and though I see evidence of bowing down in the middle, torque throughout is very good.

I found the hammer travel at 41.5 mm. The most I could lower without running into the rest cushion was 2 mm. I'd like to be able to get at least 44 or preferably 45 mm (though 46 is ideal.) Key travel is 10.2 mm at the least, and obviously this creates much too much aftertouch. Hammer bore seems good (equal to string height minus flange center.)
Even with the pinblock bowing, there's ample space for drop screws. Back rail cloth height seems rather thick, though appears original. There's room under the fall board to raise the key height a couple of mm, so lowering the back rail felt is possible to try for more hammer travel. I have not adjusted the glides though they are near enough to create a good regulation foundation.

Where might elsewhere I look to gain more hammer travel? Cut down rest felt? Plane down action feet rests (cleats?)
Obviously I'm hoping to get the piano feeling better and more responsive without causing a catastrophe in action ratio or touchweight.

Board and downbearing seem ok, tone is slightly weak, but ok I think for a 53 year old instrument.

Any input as to where to search for a good solution (or at least a decent compromise) highly appreciated!


Joe Wiencek
NYC