Pianotech

Hello all. I tuned an 18 year old Yamaha GA1 for a new-to-me customer yesterday. The piano looks like new. He has tried three different piano tuners before me for tuning. He reports unsatisfactory results - piano seems to go out of tune quickly. It had reportedly been a year since the last tuning when I tuned it yesterday. The piano was generally 5 to 10 cents flat, with a few notes a bit above Standard Pitch and a dozen or so up to 25 cents flat. It wasn't one section that went flat, but rather randomly located notes. And it wasn't just one string of the three - it would be all three of them. I suspect the previous tuner was a bit of an amateur - but then again, I really do dislike criticizing someone else's tuning a year after the fact. The home the piano is in has central air with whole house humidity control. The piano is not near any doors, etc. It should be a very stable environment.

I am familiar with the GH1 and its stability problems - especially in the low tenor. I presume the GA1 model is offered as some sort of improvement to the GH1 - but I'm not sure. Does anyone have information on the the design differences between the GA1 and the GH1? Is the GA1 supposed to be some sort of improvement from the GH1? Does anyone have an informed opinion regarding any tuning instability problems associated with the GA1? I'm trying to figure out how to respond when the inevitable happens - the customer calls me a few months from now......  Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!

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Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
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Hi Terry,

I don't know the technical differences between the two models, but I can tell you neither one is prepped properly from the factory.  All termination points need to be addressed:  tension release of the nonspeaking lengths (hitch to aliquot/aliquot to bridge, aliquot to bridge, tuning pins to the front duplex, and on the front duplex), lift with string hook distal side of capo bars/agraffes, lift proximal side of capo bars/agraffes. 

Until that is done there isn't a fighting chance of the piano being stable. 

Also, I use an unusual sequence to tune that puts pressure on the board in a different way.  If you are interested in that PM me. 

Hope this helps.

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Tim Coates RPT
Sioux Falls SD
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Original Message:
Sent: 6/2/2023 1:47:00 PM
From: Tim Coates
Subject: RE: Yamaha GA1 Tuning Stability

Hi Terry,

I don't know the technical differences between the two models, but I can tell you neither one is prepped properly from the factory.  All termination points need to be addressed:  tension release of the nonspeaking lengths (hitch to aliquot/aliquot to bridge, aliquot to bridge, tuning pins to the front duplex, and on the front duplex), lift with string hook distal side of capo bars/agraffes, lift proximal side of capo bars/agraffes. 

Until that is done there isn't a fighting chance of the piano being stable. 

Also, I use an unusual sequence to tune that puts pressure on the board in a different way.  If you are interested in that PM me. 

Hope this helps.

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Tim Coates RPT
Sioux Falls SD
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I  have to check my records but I recall tuning one of these beasts. It was in a dining room and after the tuning it did not sound much better although I fixed lots of unisons. If you do a search on each model number in this thread you will find more info. The problem is the scaling design which Yamaha changed . The model was low end otherwise known as a PSO.   You should always take temp and rh readings and record it on clients invoice and your copy. Just because someone has central air and whole house humidity control the environment where the piano sits is what it struggles with. People constantly shut the ac off here, play with thermostats, try to save money shutting the ac down, use setback thermostats, open windows and doors. I recently placed a data logger in a church piano that has big time humidity issues. They cool the church off for the Sunday Services but use a setback thermostat. Temp and RH go out of the safety range midweek then both values go back to normal about Saturday

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James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
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The GA1 was between the GH and the GB 1's. The GA1 was made in Japan. Then they came out with an GA1E which was made in Indonesia with Japanese parts and now the GB1, also assembled in Indonesia.

There's also an A1 that was made in Japan in the late 90's and early 00's. I take care of one of those and it's pretty nice for such a small piano.

Maybe checking the perimeter bolts, string seating, etc. Check the frame to make sure it wasn't dumped at some point.

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Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129
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Original Message:
Sent: 06-02-2023 17:08
From: James Kelly
Subject: Yamaha GA1 Tuning Stability

I  have to check my records but I recall tuning one of these beasts. It was in a dining room and after the tuning it did not sound much better although I fixed lots of unisons. If you do a search on each model number in this thread you will find more info. The problem is the scaling design which Yamaha changed . The model was low end otherwise known as a PSO.   You should always take temp and rh readings and record it on clients invoice and your copy. Just because someone has central air and whole house humidity control the environment where the piano sits is what it struggles with. People constantly shut the ac off here, play with thermostats, try to save money shutting the ac down, use setback thermostats, open windows and doors. I recently placed a data logger in a church piano that has big time humidity issues. They cool the church off for the Sunday Services but use a setback thermostat. Temp and RH go out of the safety range midweek then both values go back to normal about Saturday

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James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
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I have not had tuning stability problems generally but the scale layout is so poor with the low tenor dropping in BP% so precipitously that it not only never sounds in tune but will move proportionately much more than the rest of the piano. You definitely want to humidity control these. 

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David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320
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The GA1 (about 2001 to 2005) is actually worse than the GH1 but it was an interim model towards the GB1 that came in around 2005 which mostly fixed the scaling problems of the bottom 6 plain wires by changing to 5 bichord bass notes on the lowest plain wires. On the stock factory GA1, B3 plain wire note is only about 90 Lbs of tension per string. It gets progressively better up to E3 at about 124 Lbs tension per string. This is the main issue to stability (low tension blip). The GH1 has this problem as well, to a lesser degree, with really only the bottom 4 plain wire notes being too under tensioned. I have a number of GA1's in CA that are quite stable with the exception of this under tensioned area. Along with the low tensions there is also high inharmonicity so the 4:2 and the 6:3 octave tests will absolutely not agree for any of these 6 notes.

I have converted the 6 low tenor of GA1 plain wires to bichord bass notes on 3 occasions over the last 20 years and yes, it makes a huge difference!
It's a bit long, but you can watch and hear a before and after video at: http://goptools.com/360vids.htm (6 Note Low Tenor Plain Wire to Bichord conversion)

John Schienke at JDGrandt has the patterns and specs for anyone who would like to do this. The main problem is the first 2 years of getting the new bass strings to settle down. I also have a white paper regarding this so email me if you want that pdf and more info. So, one has to consider the client, their usage, player proficiency, client ears for octaves ... If the client can hear the tuning anomalies, is limited in budget to upgrade, then the conversion would be worth doing.

Also, one would be well advised to consider pointing out these anomalies to the customer in advance because, as in the first post, the client is calling back to try different Technicians due to not being satisfied when the problem is more than likely the be the scaling issue from the git go.

This is NOT a promotion for Pscale! Pscale has been around since 1990 and I don't care whether I sell the program or not.

Tremaine Parsons RPT

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Tremaine Parsons RPT
Georgetown CA
(530) 333-9299
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