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Definition of Voicing

  • 1.  Definition of Voicing

    Posted 11-28-2005 11:52
    From "Alan Barnard" <tune4u@earthlink.net>
    
    I'm looking to develop a short but comprehensive definition of piano voicing. So far, I've got:
    
    "Voicing is setting the overall brightness of the piano and evening out the tone from note to note, while optimizing power and sustain. "
    
    Ideas appreciated, please.
    
    Alan Barnard
    Salem, Missouri
    


  • 2.  Definition of Voicing

    Posted 11-28-2005 14:36
    From St?phane Collin <collin.s@skynet.be>
    
    Hello Alan.
    
    Nice thread for sure.
    My own definition, though, would replace the ideas of optimal power and sustain and even tone from note to note by the more complex idea of charm, which may or may not include or exclude all or part of the former and other things.
    
    Best regards.
    
    St?phane Collin.
    
    
    I'm looking to develop a short but comprehensive definition of piano voicing. So far, I've got:
      "Voicing is setting the overall brightness of the piano and evening out the tone from note to note, while optimizing power and sustain. "
    
      Ideas appreciated, please.
    
      Alan Barnard
      Salem, Missouri
    


  • 3.  Definition of Voicing

    Posted 11-28-2005 15:54
      |   view attached
    From antares <antares@euronet.nl>
    
    On 28-nov-2005, at 22:35, Stéphane Collin wrote:
    
    > Hello Alan.
    >
    > Nice thread for sure.
    > My own definition, though, would replace the ideas of optimal power  
    > and sustain and even tone from note to note by the more complex  
    > idea of charm, which may or may not include or exclude all or part  
    > of the former and other things.
    >
    > Best regards.
    >
    > Stéphane Collin.
    >
    >
    > I'm looking to develop a short but comprehensive definition of  
    > piano voicing. So far, I've got:
    > "Voicing is setting the overall brightness of the piano and evening  
    > out the tone from note to note, while optimizing power and sustain. "
    >
    > Ideas appreciated, please.
    >
    > Alan Barnard
    > Salem, Missouri
    >
    >
    
    Hi Stéphane and list,
    
    When I think about voicing, the word tells me what it is : give the  
    hammers a voice
    In German it is called "intonieren" and in Dutch it is "Intoneren"  
    which sort of means "working with tone, sound".
    
    To give a piano a voice is one.
    What kind of voice another issue.
    
    EAR
    
    
    friendly greetings
    from
    André Oorebeek
    
    R. Vinkeleskade 1-3hg
    1071 SN Amsterdam
    The Netherlands
    
    tel/fax : 0031-20-6237357
    gsm   :  0031-645-492389
    
    www.concertpianoservice.nl
    
    
    ?
    and the stories I hear!
    


  • 4.  Definition of Voicing

    Posted 11-29-2005 11:02
    From Nichols <nicho@zianet.com>
    
    At 03:30 PM 11/28/2005 -0800, you wrote:
    
    >Voicing means simply regulating the tone of the piano.  Specific goals 
    >about brightness, power, sustain, balance, or charm, will vary so much 
    >from player to player and technician to technician that a comprehensive 
    >definition becomes quite problematic.
    >
    >David Love
    >davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    
    Exactly. That's why I always "simplify", when trying to educate the 
    customer. I've found that most players want control. Period. Brightness, 
    darkness, charm, etc., are just traits. When selling a service, be it 
    regulating or voicing or whatever, I usually come back to that one word. 
    Control. So, voicing would be the service of providing the player with 
    control of the instrument's tone. JMO
    
    Guy Nichols, RPT
    Ft. Stinkin' Desert, NM
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
    or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not
    only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the
    American public." - Teddy Roosevelt
    


  • 5.  Definition of Voicing

    Posted 11-29-2005 13:35
    From St?phane Collin <collin.s@skynet.be>
    
    Hi Guy.
    
    Agreed with the control thing.   Foreseen that it goes in both directions :  to make a real good voicing job, you must be able to let the piano take control on you, and you must be able to follow her to where she wants to bring you, and be willing to hear the things she could tell you, even if it is not what you expected.  Forcing a piano to sound like you wanted instead of helping her sound like she is meant to can be disappointing, isn't it ?  Accepting the personality of the instrument is very important in my eyes (and ears).  And so is giving up your own expectations to follow and match hers.
    
    Best regards.
    
    St?phane Collin.
    
    
      Exactly. That's why I always "simplify", when trying to educate the customer. I've found that most players want control. Period. Brightness, darkness, charm, etc., are just traits. When selling a service, be it regulating or voicing or whatever, I usually come back to that one word. Control. So, voicing would be the service of providing the player with control of the instrument's tone. JMO
    
      Guy Nichols, RPT
      Ft. Stinkin' Desert, NM
    


  • 6.  Definition of Voicing

    Posted 11-29-2005 17:43
    From Nichols <nicho@zianet.com>
    
    At 09:35 PM 11/29/2005 +0100, you wrote:
    >Hi Guy.
    >
    >Agreed with the control thing.   Foreseen that it goes in both directions 
    >:  to make a real good voicing job, you must be able to let the piano take 
    >control on you, and you must be able to follow her to where she wants to 
    >bring you, and be willing to hear the things she could tell you, even if 
    >it is not what you expected.  Forcing a piano to sound like you wanted 
    >instead of helping her sound like she is meant to can be disappointing, 
    >isn't it ?
    
    Well..... sometimes. On the other hand, helping a piano find a facade that 
    pleases it's owner will counter-act that disappointment, usually.
    
    >   Accepting the personality of the instrument is very important in my 
    > eyes (and ears).  And so is giving up your own expectations to follow and 
    > match hers.
    
    I might disagree with you there. "Giving up my expectations" could.... 
    maybe... lead me to let the piano under-achieve, no?
    
    >
    >Best regards.
    >
    >St?phane Collin.
    
    And to you, aussi,
    
    Guy
    >
    >Exactly. That's why I always "simplify", when trying to educate the 
    >customer. I've found that most players want control. Period. Brightness, 
    >darkness, charm, etc., are just traits. When selling a service, be it 
    >regulating or voicing or whatever, I usually come back to that one word. 
    >Control. So, voicing would be the service of providing the player with 
    >control of the instrument's tone. JMO
    >
    >Guy Nichols, RPT
    >Ft. Stinkin' Desert, NM
    >
    >
    


  • 7.  Definition of Voicing

    Posted 11-29-2005 11:31
    From Stéphane Collin <collin.s@skynet.be>
    
    Yahoo ! André !
    
    Long time no see.
    Great to read you again here.
    
    Now, if, yes, this is all a matter of taste, as stated by others, what I would find interesting is to sort out what is a matter of taste from what is obviously faulty.  Difficult, but certainly important to master.  Any ideas ?
    
    Best regards.
    
    Stéphane Collin.
      When I think about voicing, the word tells me what it is : give the hammers a voice
      In German it is called "intonieren" and in Dutch it is "Intoneren" which sort of means "working with tone, sound".
    
    
      To give a piano a voice is one.
      What kind of voice another issue.
    


  • 8.  Definition of Voicing

    Posted 11-29-2005 14:42
      |   view attached
    From antares <antares@euronet.nl>
    
    On 29-nov-2005, at 19:31, Stéphane Collin wrote:
    
    > Yahoo ! André !
    >
    > Long time no see.
    > Great to read you again here.
    
    And you Stéphane!
    >
    > Now, if, yes, this is all a matter of taste, as stated by others,  
    > what I would find interesting is to sort out what is a matter of  
    > taste from what is obviously faulty.  Difficult, but certainly  
    > important to master.  Any ideas ?
    >
    > Best regards.
    >
    > Stéphane Collin.
    
    
    Let me put it this way (since you ask me) :
    It is maybe better to simplify things in the first place, because  
    this whole thing about voicing is so abstract.
    We have a piano A, consisting of a soundboard, a wooden frame, an  
    iron frame, a bunch of strings, a keyboard and an action.
    All this combined will give a specific kind of sound, totally  
    different from piano B. which was built in a slightly different way.
    So Piano A and B have different personalities and both these  
    different personalities may have different characters.
    
    When we hit a string of piano A, with an unvoiced hammer, the outcome  
    will be condensed and the hardness and shrillness predictable because  
    of the high overtones being activated by a stone hard hammer  
    (assuming the unvoiced hammer is stone hard). Nevertheless, it will  
    already be possible to distinguish a trace of a personality, hidden  
    and masked by the 'voice', the hammer.
    The same of course for piano B.
    
    Now what we do with voicing the hammers, is sort of playing with the  
    possibilities the personality of the piano and its hammer gives us.
    Playing with the hammer is in an way limited, because we have only a  
    number of possibilities here :
    we can leave it the way it is
    we can give it a small cushion
    we can give it a big cushion
    we can give it a hard crown, combined with a small cushion
    we can give it a mellow crown, combined with a big cushion
    we can give it a limited battery voicing, combined with the above
    we can give it a huge battery voicing, combined with the above
    we can give it a tulip shape, combined with the above
    we can give it an egg shape, combined with the above
    we can give it a diamond shape, combined with the above
    
    There are more things we can do, but I think this is enough as an  
    example.
    
    Anyway, what I am trying to say, is that we will always be able to  
    distinguish the personality, but this personality can be masked with  
    quite a number of personae.
    
    That's why I mentioned before :
    
    To give a piano a voice is one thing,
    What kind of voice is another.
    
    EAR
    
    
    friendly greetings
    from
    André Oorebeek
    
    R. Vinkeleskade 1-3hg
    1071 SN Amsterdam
    The Netherlands
    
    tel/fax : 0031-20-6237357
    gsm   :  0031-645-492389
    
    www.concertpianoservice.nl
    
    
    ?
    and the stories I hear!
    


  • 9.  Definition of Voicing

    Posted 11-28-2005 15:15
    From "William Benjamin" <pianoboutique@comcast.net>
    
    Alan,
    
     
    
    You might also include the word timbre, if my spelling is correct.
    
     
    
     
    
     
    
    PIANO BOUTIQUE
    
    William Benjamin
    
    Piano Tuner Extraordinaire
    
     <http://www.pianoboutique.biz> www.pianoboutique.biz
    
    The tuner alone,
    
    preserves the tone.
    
     
    
      _____  
    
    From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf
    Of Alan Barnard
    Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 1:52 PM
    To: Pianotech
    Subject: Definition of Voicing
    
     
    
    I'm looking to develop a short but comprehensive definition of piano
    voicing. So far, I've got:
    
     
    
    "Voicing is setting the overall brightness of the piano and evening out the
    tone from note to note, while optimizing power and sustain. "
    
     
    
    Ideas appreciated, please.
    
     
    
    Alan Barnard
    
    Salem, Missouri
    
     
    


  • 10.  Definition of Voicing

    Posted 11-28-2005 15:37
    From "Cy Shuster" <741662027@theshusters.org>
    
    How about "Adjusting the sound in ways other than its pitch: attack, decay, and the mix of bass vs. treble".  A graphic equalizer is the analogy I use (or just bass and treble radio knobs, for us "pluggers"...).
    
    --Cy--
      


  • 11.  Definition of Voicing

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-28-2005 16:31
      |   view attached
    From "David Love" <davidlovepianos@comcast.net>
    
    Voicing means simply regulating the tone of the piano.  Specific goals about
    brightness, power, sustain, balance, or charm, will vary so much from player
    to player and technician to technician that a comprehensive definition
    becomes quite problematic.  
    
     
    
    David Love
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net 
    
    


  • 12.  Definition of Voicing

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-01-2005 10:09
    From erwinspiano@aol.com
    
    Andre
      So good to hear from you. I  enjoyed the thorough post & technical descrptions.
      In Non technical terms I like
        frequency balancing to a specific intent
        Increasing the sustain
       Increasing tonal variety
      Adjusting the sizzle,clang, boom. Meaning high middle & lower partials
        Voicing is creating tonal power  * removing most of the noise is my favorite
      To bring out it's own unique voice.
       Cheers
       Dale Erwin
     
        
    
    
    
    Let me put it this way (since you ask me) :
    It is maybe better to simplify things in the first place, because this whole thing about voicing is so abstract.
    We have a piano A, consisting of a soundboard, a wooden frame, an iron frame, a bunch of strings, a keyboard and an action.
    All this combined will give a specific kind of sound, totally different from piano B. which was built in a slightly different way.
    So Piano A and B have different personalities and both these different personalities may have different characters.
    
    
    When we hit a string of piano A, with an unvoiced hammer, the outcome will be condensed and the hardness and shrillness predictable because of the high overtones being activated by a stone hard hammer (assuming the unvoiced hammer is stone hard). Nevertheless, it will already be possible to distinguish a trace of a personality, hidden and masked by the 'voice', the hammer.
    The same of course for piano B.
    
    
    Now what we do with voicing the hammers, is sort of playing with the possibilities the personality of the piano and its hammer gives us.
    Playing with the hammer is in an way limited, because we have only a number of possibilities here :
    we can leave it the way it is 
    we can give it a small cushion
    we can give it a big cushion
    we can give it a hard crown, combined with a small cushion
    we can give it a mellow crown, combined with a big cushion
    we can give it a limited battery voicing, combined with the above
    we can give it a huge battery voicing, combined with the above
    we can give it a tulip shape, combined with the above
    we can give it an egg shape, combined with the above
    we can give it a diamond shape, combined with the above
    
    
    There are more things we can do, but I think this is enough as an example.
    
    
    Anyway, what I am trying to say, is that we will always be able to distinguish the personality, but this personality can be masked with quite a number of personae.
    
    
    That's why I mentioned before :
    
    
    To give a piano a voice is one thing,
    What kind of voice is another.
    
    
    EAR
    
    
    
    
    friendly greetings 
    from
    Andr? Oorebeek
    
    
    R. Vinkeleskade 1-3hg
    
    1071 SN Amsterdam 
    The Netherlands
    
    
    tel/fax : 0031-20-6237357
    gsm   :  0031-645-492389
    
    
    www.concertpianoservice.nl
    
    
    
    [Image removed] 
    
    and the stories I hear! 
    


  • 13.  Definition of Voicing

    Posted 12-01-2005 11:51
      |   view attached
    From antares <antares@euronet.nl>
    
    On 1-dec-2005, at 18:09, erwinspiano@aol.com wrote:
    
    >
    >>   Andre
    >>   So good to hear from you. I  enjoyed the thorough post &  
    >> technical descrptions.
    >>   In Non technical terms I like
    >>     frequency balancing to a specific intent
    >>     Increasing the sustain
    >>    Increasing tonal variety
    >>   Adjusting the sizzle,clang, boom. Meaning high middle & lower  
    >> partials
    >>     Voicing is creating tonal power  * removing most of the noise  
    >> is my favorite
    >>   To bring out it's own unique voice.
    >>    Cheers
    >>    Dale Erwin
    
    
    Thank you master Dale, good to see you too again.
    
    Indeed, there is nothing but "bringing out it's unique voice".
    
    EAR
    
    friendly greetings
    from
    André Oorebeek
    
    R. Vinkeleskade 1-3hg
    1071 SN Amsterdam
    The Netherlands
    
    tel/fax : 0031-20-6237357
    gsm   :  0031-645-492389
    
    www.concertpianoservice.nl
    
    
    ?
    a unique voice?
    


  • 14.  Definition of Voicing

    Posted 12-02-2005 07:53
    From Piannaman@aol.com
    
    Andre,
     
    Good to see you post here again!  Your presence and wealth of  information 
    was truly missed!
     
    Dave S.
     
    In a message dated 12/1/2005 7:55:01 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
    antares@euronet.nl writes:
    
    
    
    
    
    On 29-nov-2005, at 19:31, St?phane Collin wrote:
    
    
    Yahoo ! Andr?  !
     
    Long time no  see.
    Great to read you again  here.
    
    
    
    And you St?phane!
    
    
    Now, if, yes, this is all a  matter of taste, as stated by others, what I 
    would find interesting is to  sort out what is a matter of taste from what is 
    obviously faulty.   Difficult, but certainly important to master.  Any ideas  ?
     
    Best  regards.
     
    St?phane  Collin.
    
    
    
    
    
    Let me put it this way (since you ask me) :
    It is maybe better to simplify things in the first place, because this  whole 
    thing about voicing is so abstract.
    We have a piano A, consisting of a soundboard, a wooden frame, an iron  
    frame, a bunch of strings, a keyboard and an action.
    All this combined will give a  specific kind of sound, totally different from 
    piano B. which was built  in a slightly different way.
    So Piano A and B have different personalities and both these different  
    personalities may have different characters.
    
    
    When we hit a string of piano A, with an  unvoiced hammer, the outcome will 
    be condensed and the hardness and  shrillness predictable because of the high 
    overtones being activated by a  stone hard hammer (assuming the unvoiced hammer 
    is stone hard). Nevertheless,  it will already be possible to distinguish a 
    trace of a personality, hidden  and masked by the 'voice', the hammer.
    The same of course for piano B.
    
    
    Now what we do with voicing the hammers, is  sort of playing with the 
    possibilities the personality of the  piano and its hammer gives us.
    Playing with the hammer is in an way  limited, because we have only a number 
    of possibilities here :
    we can leave it the way it is 
    we can give it a small cushion
    we can give it a big cushion
    we can give it a hard crown, combined with a small cushion
    we can give it a mellow crown, combined with a big cushion
    we can give it a limited battery voicing, combined with the above
    we can give it a huge battery voicing, combined with the above
    we can give it a tulip shape, combined with the above
    we can give it an egg shape, combined with the above
    we can give it a diamond shape, combined with the above
    
    
    There are more things we can do, but I think this is enough as an  example.
    
    
    Anyway, what I am trying to say, is that we will always be able to  
    distinguish the personality, but this personality can be masked with quite a  number of 
    personae.
    
    
    That's why I mentioned before :
    
    
    To give a piano a  voice is one thing,
    What kind of  voice is another.
    
    
    EAR
    
    
    
    friendly  greetings  
    from
    Andr? Oorebeek
    
    
    R.  Vinkeleskade 1-3hg
    
    1071 SN Amsterdam 
    The Netherlands
    
    
    tel/fax : 0031-20-6237357
    gsm   :   0031-645-492389
    
    
    
    
    
     
    Dave  Stahl
    
    Dave Stahl Piano Service
    650-224-3560
    _http://www.dstahlpiano.net/_ (http://www.dstahlpiano.net/) 
    


  • 15.  Definition of Voicing

    Posted 12-02-2005 10:30
      |   view attached
    From antares <antares@euronet.nl>
    
    On 2-dec-2005, at 15:52, Piannaman@aol.com wrote:
    
    > Andre,
    >
    > Good to see you post here again!  Your presence and wealth of  
    > information was truly missed!
    >
    > Dave S.
    >
    > In a message dated 12/1/2005 7:55:01 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
    > antares@euronet.nl writes:
    
    
    Hi Dave, thanks for your kindness.
    My presence can sometimes be a bit overwhelming, so I'll try to behave.
    The information I may have, I have always shared, here, and  
    everywhere. just like most of you.
    
    Many thanks to all here.
    
    EAR
    
    friendly greetings
    from
    André Oorebeek
    
    R. Vinkeleskade 1-3hg
    1071 SN Amsterdam
    The Netherlands
    
    tel/fax : 0031-20-6237357
    gsm   :  0031-645-492389
    
    www.concertpianoservice.nl
    
    
    ?
    and the stories I hear!