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Bass string maker problem

  • 1.  Bass string maker problem

    Posted 01-16-2013 13:23 
    From Patrick Poulson <pcpoulson@sbcglobal.net>

I am having a continual problem with getting bass strings duplicated accurately. In two instances the string duplication was good for the first half and then the windings got longer and longer until they rode up over the capo bar, in the first instance, and over the bridge in the second instance. These were both upright pianos, and I did try switching the order of the strings which only made things worse. In two other pianos, both grands, the windings in the bichords were not as closer as the original ones. This problem showed up in sets from both Mapes and Schaff. Up until this happened I never had such a problem. I am about to give up and try different makers. Has anyone else been having a similar problem, and did you wind up switching.
Thanks,
Patrick Poulson,RPT


  • 2.  Bass string maker problem

    Posted 01-16-2013 13:59 
    From "Encore Pianos" <encorepianos@metrocast.net>

I have had these problems with both these suppliers periodically getting
individuals replaced.   I had sent in the measurements asked for within
their protocol.   Another supplier I sent in 6 strings, and all were done
wrong, in the manner you describe.  I'd like another supplier for individual
strings, I'm good for sets but am getting them from Canada.

Will Truitt


    
                                                
    
					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
    
                                                
    
                                                    
                                                        
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  • 3.  Bass string maker problem

    Posted 01-16-2013 15:34 
    From Mike Spalding <mike.spalding1@frontier.com>

Patrick,

Years ago.  What got to me more than the occasional error was the 
attitude they gave when confronted with their mistakes.  Now using 
Arledge.  Not perfect, but they take responsibility for their quality 
and fix things quickly.

Mike

On 1/16/2013 2:22 PM, Patrick Poulson wrote:
> I am having a continual problem with getting bass strings duplicated accurately. In two instances the string duplication was good for the first half and then the windings got longer and longer until they rode up over the capo bar, in the first instance, and over the bridge in the second instance. These were both upright pianos, and I did try switching the order of the strings which only made things worse. In two other pianos, both grands, the windings in the bichords were not as closer as the original ones. This problem showed up in sets from both Mapes and Schaff. Up until this happened I never had such a problem. I am about to give up and try different makers. Has anyone else been having a similar problem, and did you wind up switching.
> Thanks,
> Patrick Poulson,RPT


  • 4.  Bass string maker problem

    Posted 01-16-2013 15:53 
    From "Dean May" <deanmay@pianorebuilders.com>

Ditto. I love Arledge. Great souding strings.

Dean
Dean W May                (812) 235-5272 voice and text 
PianoRebuilders.com    (888) DEAN-MAY        
Terre Haute IN 47802


    
                                                
    
					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
    
                                                
    
                                                    
                                                        
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  • 5.  Bass string maker problem

    Posted 01-16-2013 16:31 
    From "Patrick C. Poulson" <pcpoulson@sbcglobal.net>

Mapes and Schaff have both been quick to replace the faulty strings, but 
that doesn't make up for the lost time and money due to having to replace 
strings twice, as well as the aggravation.
I may be switching to Arledge. How does their prices compare?
Patrick C. Poulson
Registered Piano Technician
530-265-1983

    
                                                
    
					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
    
                                                
    
                                                    
                                                        
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  • 6.  Bass string maker problem

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-16-2013 17:24 
    From William Monroe <bill@a440piano.net>

Yep.  One more vote for Arledge.  I don't know the cost difference - and I
don't care much either.  If they were double the price, maybe I'd think
twice, but they're not.  The strings are well made, I had one problem with
a string from a set and it was replaced post haste.  Great service, great
strings.

William R. Monroe





On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 5:30 PM, Patrick C. Poulson <pcpoulson@sbcglobal.net
> wrote:

> Mapes and Schaff have both been quick to replace the faulty strings, but
> that doesn't make up for the lost time and money due to having to replace
> strings twice, as well as the aggravation.
> I may be switching to Arledge. How does their prices compare?
> Patrick C. Poulson
> Registered Piano Technician
> 530-265-1983
> 
    
                                                
    
					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
    
                                                
    
                                                    
                                                        
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  • 7.  Bass string maker problem

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-16-2013 18:05 
    From Dale Erwin <erwinspiano@aol.com>

Same here. Areldge has given me great personal service. The J.D Grandt & Gac strings are also well made. 
 More expensive and the quality is worth it to be sure,... but you get what you pay for...well...usually
Dale


Dale Erwin R.P.T.
Erwin's Piano Restoration Inc.
 Mason & Hamlin/Steinway/U.S. pianos
www.Erwinspiano.com
Phone: 209-577-8397

 
  






    
                                                
    
					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
    
                                                
    
                                                    
                                                        
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  • 8.  Bass string maker problem

    Posted 01-16-2013 18:37 
    From "Greg Newell" <gnewell@ameritech.net>

Patrick,
	I had a problem where the string maker in Tennessee made strings
where the winding got further and further away from the agraffes with each
new string installed. I took a picture, sent them back, took measurements,
string pattern, etc. only to get a set made exactly the same way. Finally I
got a set that worked on the third try but they really didn't live up to the
hype by others about how wonderful they were supposed to sound. I asked for
but never got any "consideration" for my wasted time and trips because of
their mistakes. Never again. I went back to Mapes. They're not stellar but
at least I know what I'm going to get and Andy has always been most helpful
whenever I've needed it. FWIW.


Greg Newell
Greg's Piano Forte
216-226-3791 (office)
216-470-8634 (mobile)
www.gregspianoforte.com
gpf@ameritech.net


 


    
                                                
    
					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
    
                                                
    
                                                    
                                                        
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  • 9.  Bass string maker problem

    Posted 01-16-2013 18:51 
    From "Greg Newell" <gnewell@ameritech.net>

Thanks everyone for the reminder. Arledge was the string winder that I had
such trouble with. Never again. Good luck if you continue with them.

Greg


    
                                                
    
					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
    
                                                
    
                                                    
                                                        
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  • 10.  Bass string maker problem

    Posted 01-17-2013 03:15 
    From "Encore Pianos" <encorepianos@metrocast.net>

Ditto.

Will Truitt


    
                                                
    
					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
    
                                                
    
                                                    
                                                        
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  • 11.  Bass string maker problem

    Posted 01-16-2013 19:04 
    From Ron Nossaman <rnossaman@cox.net>

On 1/16/2013 2:22 PM, Patrick Poulson wrote:

> I am having a continual problem with getting bass strings duplicated
> accurately.

At various times, I've used Schaff, Mapes, Arledge, and J D Grant. I've 
never had JDG duplicate anything, as I email him measurements, but I've 
never gotten a mislocated wrap, had a loop (or a dozen) break, had 
strings make weird noises or rattles. The only time I've gotten a string 
from him that didn't fit beautifully was when I screwed up the 
measurement. Can't say that for the rest.
Ron N


  • 12.  Bass string maker problem

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-16-2013 19:56 
    From "David Love" <davidlovepianos@comcast.net>

My experience is similar to Ron's.  JD Grandt has done excellent work for me
and continues to be my go to string maker.  

David Love
www.davidlovepianos.com



At various times, I've used Schaff, Mapes, Arledge, and J D Grant. I've
never had JDG duplicate anything, as I email him measurements, but I've
never gotten a mislocated wrap, had a loop (or a dozen) break, had strings
make weird noises or rattles. The only time I've gotten a string from him
that didn't fit beautifully was when I screwed up the measurement. Can't say
that for the rest.
Ron N


  • 13.  Bass string maker problem

    Posted 01-17-2013 03:17 
    From "Encore Pianos" <encorepianos@metrocast.net>

My experience also.  Last set was perfect, except for one string.  I checked
my measurements for that string.  Oops!

Will Truitt


    
                                                
    
					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
    
                                                
    
                                                    
                                                        
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  • 14.  Bass string maker problem

    Posted 01-17-2013 08:06 
    From Ron Nossaman <rnossaman@cox.net>

On 1/17/2013 4:16 AM, Encore Pianos wrote:
> My experience also.  Last set was perfect, except for one string.  I checked
> my measurements for that string.  Oops!

That's the one. Checking all measurements three or more times from both 
directions usually catches those for me, but then one day it's surprise 
time. I even use a simple little spreadsheet input form that I measure 
hitch to bridge pin and hitch to agraffe with the speaking length 
calculated as the difference. So when I look at bichord pairs and see a 
5mm difference in speaking lengths, which is my typical screw up, I have 
an easy cross check. That doesn't help on monochords, but I'll take 
whatever help I can get. Charting speaking lengths is a quick and easy 
visual indicator of suspicious discontinuities too.

You probably already know this, but though it's functionally a non-event 
for the small distances involved, different string makers handle the 
hitch differently. One will use the back of the pin, and another the 
center, and their respective supplied measuring tapes read differently 
as a result. So they need to know hitch size as well. Seems overly 
complicated to me when the back of the hitch pin is where the loop seats 
in all cases regardless of hitch size, but that's the way it is. They 
also handle elongation a little or a lot differently. Some not at all.
Ron N


  • 15.  Bass string maker problem

    Posted 01-17-2013 17:20 
    From "Encore Pianos" <encorepianos@metrocast.net>

I haven't charted the speaking lengths (or other lengths) required, but that
seems like a good idea - I know my brain can go on auto pilot even as I am
checking - I need something to check the checker.  I drop everything into an
Excel spreadsheet, so that should be easy enough to do.  Thanks. 

I didn't know the differences  between makers, they have never told me, I
just have always assumed the back of the hitch pin.  I already provide the
hitch pin size to the maker.  

Will


    
                                                
    
					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
    
                                                
    
                                                    
                                                        
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  • 16.  Bass string maker problem

    Posted 01-17-2013 17:46 
    From Ron Nossaman <rnossaman@cox.net>

On 1/17/2013 6:20 PM, Encore Pianos wrote:
> I haven't charted the speaking lengths (or other lengths) required, but that
> seems like a good idea - I know my brain can go on auto pilot even as I am
> checking - I need something to check the checker.  I drop everything into an
> Excel spreadsheet, so that should be easy enough to do.  Thanks.

Sure. Sometimes it saves me.


> I didn't know the differences  between makers, they have never told me, I
> just have always assumed the back of the hitch pin.  I already provide the
> hitch pin size to the maker.

Me too, but then one day out of curiosity I decided to validate tooling 
and compare the measuring tapes I had from Arledge, Hellerbass, and JD 
Grant, found discrepancies, and asked. With 13mm or whatever bare ends, 
it's not something that gets in the way if I'd never noticed.
Ron N


  • 17.  Bass string maker problem

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-17-2013 10:03 
    From Dale Erwin <erwinspiano@aol.com>

In fairness friends & FWIW
  Really, when you think about it. you'd have to be nuts to want to make bass strings for a bunch of myopic, microscopic geek's like us.
 I mean really,Think about it. If I made strings.... I'd want alot more money than any of these guys. ;)
 All bass string makers can & will have issues at one time or another. Count on it. Just like action parts makers. Hey its manufacturing & stuff happens
 The first time I used JD Grandt strings all 3 sets were unusable.  The problem? Was a personnel shuffle and the current maker/winder had left and the older Grandt who was struggling with his sight  was trying to do it all on his own, I didn't know that till later. SO I said never again.  hmmm
  However, many year later David Love encouraged me to try them and we did and as you'all have noticed ,the strings are top notch again. I can't say I hear any  aural differences between the two makers
 I've used Arledge for 10 years. The strings sound very good, I get southern hospitality and grace coupled with personal service and a can do attitude. No squalling about replacing the 
occasional string & no excuses for it. No pointing the finger at me as if I did something to cause it,...as has happened with other makers.  They double wrap all my mono chord sections on request with out the extra $48.00 charge I get from J.D. grandt to do so. 
 However Chip who I've dealt with for years at Arledge has left and Jim Arledge is back in the saddle. I'm sure life will go on.
I'm just saying... Never say Never
Dale Erwin
Ditto.
Will Truitt

 On Behalf
Of Greg Newell
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 8:51 PM


Thanks everyone for the reminder. Arledge was the string winder that I had
such trouble with. Never again. Good luck if you continue with them.

Greg





Dale Erwin R.P.T.
Erwin's Piano Restoration Inc.
 Mason & Hamlin/Steinway/U.S. pianos
www.Erwinspiano.com
Phone: 209-577-8397

 
  






    
                                                
    
					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
    
                                                
    
                                                    
                                                        
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  • 18.  Bass string maker problem

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-17-2013 17:45 
    From "David Love" <davidlovepianos@comcast.net>

I think all the custom makers generally try and do a good job and
accommodate.  If there's a problem it's usually an anomaly, though each has
their own scaling approach.  Arledge, JD Grandt, GC, and others all do good
work.  BTW John Delacour also makes excellent strings and does excellent
scale work as well.  

 

David Love

www.davidlovepianos.com

 

 

 
 The first time I used JD Grandt strings all 3 sets were unusable.  The
problem? Was a personnel shuffle and the current maker/winder had left and
the older Grandt who was struggling with his sight  was trying to do it all
on his own, I didn't know that till later. SO I said never again.  hmmm
  However, many year later David Love encouraged me to try them and we did
and as you'all have noticed ,the strings are top notch again. I can't say I
hear any  aural differences between the two makers
 I've used Arledge for 10 years. The strings sound very good, I get southern
hospitality and grace coupled with personal service and a can do attitude.
No squalling about replacing the 
occasional string & no excuses for it. No pointing the finger at me as if I
did something to cause it,...as has happened with other makers.  They double
wrap all my mono chord sections on request with out the extra $48.00 charge
I get from J.D. grandt to do so. 
 However Chip who I've dealt with for years at Arledge has left and Jim
Arledge is back in the saddle. I'm sure life will go on.
I'm just saying... Never say Never
Dale Erwin


  • 19.  Bass string maker problem

    Posted 01-17-2013 19:27 
    From Jim Ialeggio <jim@grandpianosolutions.com>

Ron wrote:

<Me too, but then one day out of curiosity I decided to validate tooling 
and compare the measuring tapes I had from Arledge, Hellerbass, and JD 
Grant, found discrepancies.

As a matter of course, I check calibration on any and all measuring 
devices. A couple of years ago, I had 2 tapes from I believe it was 
Grandt, and they disagreed with each other. I called him up. He 
apologized and thanked me avoiding a screw up. He then told me what # 
they were trying to hit with the loop. I messed with it until it hit the 
intended target.

I've found, since way back, it pays to call a subcontractor up, question 
his tooling and setup needs. This way one can be sure to provide the 
info that will make his job go smoothly, according to the way he likes 
to proceed, and according to the way his machinery is set up to do 
things. It cuts way down on booboos, and misunderstandings.

Jim Ialeggio

-- 
Jim Ialeggio	
jim@grandpianosolutions.com
978 425-9026
Shirley Center, MA