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Dehumidifier rods

  • 1.  Dehumidifier rods

    Posted 11-22-2010 21:38
    From limhseng@gmail.com
    
    Hi list
    Attached 2 pics of heater rods(15watts) in a grand piano. The heater on the soundboard according to the tech that installed it helps to prevent rust. The other rod in the action cavity is the standard installation in our hot and humid climate. Its on 24/7. Your views pls.
    Thanks!
    Lim
    Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld 
    Powered by Gee! from StarHub


  • 2.  Dehumidifier rods

    Posted 11-22-2010 22:08
    From "Tom Rhea, Jr." <rheapiano@cox.net>
    
    Ohhhhh boy!  I'm going to have to reserve judgment on this one.  Without any
    way to monitor humidity (i.e., a Humidistat), it's a crap shoot as to its
    effectiveness.  I'd talk to an experienced Dampp-Chaser technician as to
    whether this lash-up is curing a problem or causing an even worse one.  Just
    my humble 2?  worth ...
    
    Tom
    
    


  • 3.  Dehumidifier rods

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-22-2010 22:53
    From Cy Shuster <cy@shusterpiano.com>
    
    Dampp-Chaser suggests a rod under the keybed for extreme situations  
    such as yours, but never in the action cavity.  You can take their  
    free training course at www.pianolifesaver.com.
    
    --Cy--
    
    Cy Shuster, RPT
    Albuquerque, NM
    
    www.shusterpiano.com
    www.facebook.com/shusterpiano
    


  • 4.  Dehumidifier rods

    Posted 11-22-2010 23:02
    From "Tom Rhea, Jr." <rheapiano@cox.net>
    
    Hi Cy,
    I have taken the course and am a Certified Installer but I didn't want to
    sound too pompous since I'm still a "newbie" technician.  The suggestion
    that you allude to (an extra de-humidifier rod) is valid but only in
    conjunction with a full system that includes an active Humidistat.  The
    Humidistat is really the only way to monitor and control humidity.
    
    Tom Rhea, "newbie" technician
    Norfolk, VA
    
    


  • 5.  Dehumidifier rods

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-23-2010 08:35
    From "David Love" <davidlovepianos@comcast.net>
    
    So when they suggest under the keybed installation, what wattage is
    generally recommended and does it actually accomplish anything in terms of
    keeping the action centers and key bushing areas free from swelling?
    
    David Love
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    
    
    


  • 6.  Dehumidifier rods

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-23-2010 12:36
    From Cy Shuster <cy@shusterpiano.com>
    
    DC recommends a 36", 25W rod under the keybed for the action, if needed.
    
    According to Wim, in Hawaii, at least, that's not enough.  And Wim,  
    what's the name of that chemical product you use to avoid rust there?
    
    --Cy--
    
    Cy Shuster, RPT
    Albuquerque, NM
    
    www.shusterpiano.com
    www.facebook.com/shusterpiano
    
    On Nov 23, 2010, at 8:34 AM, David Love wrote:
    
    > So when they suggest under the keybed installation, what wattage is
    > generally recommended and does it actually accomplish anything in  
    > terms of
    > keeping the action centers and key bushing areas free from swelling?
    >
    > David Love
    > www.davidlovepianos.com
    >
    


  • 7.  Dehumidifier rods

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-23-2010 13:13
    From tnrwim@aol.com
    
    According to Wim, in Hawaii, at least, that's not enough.  And Wim,  
    hat's the name of that chemical product you use to avoid rust there?
    
    It's called Bull Frog Rust Blocker. According to the information I have, it utilizes VpCI (Vapor phase corrosion inhibitor). What ever that means. For more information about Bull Frog, go to their website at www.bull-frog.com. 
    
    Wim
    
    
    
    
    
    


  • 8.  Dehumidifier rods

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-23-2010 17:11
    From "David Love" <davidlovepianos@comcast.net>
    
    Does it actually do anything? I have a situation where a DC rod to impact
    the action may be in order.  Unheated house, balance rail and action centers
    keep swelling and seizing.  Don't like the idea of even a 15W DC rod right
    under the pinblock, so does anyone have experience with a 25W 36" rod under
    the key bed having a positive impact in a situation like this?  And why 36"
    and not 48", or 50W rather than 25W?  Also, how far back from the front of
    the piano do they recommend placing it?
    
    David Love
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    
    
    


  • 9.  Dehumidifier rods

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-23-2010 20:01
    From Cy Shuster <cy@shusterpiano.com>
    
    You can contact DC directly for any kind of technical help: piano@dampp-chaser.com
    
    It's got to be back far enough to clear the pianist's knees.  Other  
    than that, heat rises, so I don't think the fore-aft position is  
    critical.
    
    --Cy--
    
    Cy Shuster, RPT
    Albuquerque, NM
    
    www.shusterpiano.com
    www.facebook.com/shusterpiano
    
    On Nov 23, 2010, at 5:10 PM, David Love wrote:
    
    > Does it actually do anything? I have a situation where a DC rod to  
    > impact
    > the action may be in order.  Unheated house, balance rail and action  
    > centers
    > keep swelling and seizing.  Don't like the idea of even a 15W DC rod  
    > right
    > under the pinblock, so does anyone have experience with a 25W 36"  
    > rod under
    > the key bed having a positive impact in a situation like this?  And  
    > why 36"
    > and not 48", or 50W rather than 25W?  Also, how far back from the  
    > front of
    > the piano do they recommend placing it?
    >
    > David Love
    > www.davidlovepianos.com
    


  • 10.  Dehumidifier rods

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-23-2010 01:21
    From tnrwim@aol.com
    
    Hi list
    ttached 2 pics of heater rods(15watts) in a grand piano. The heater on the 
    oundboard according to the tech that installed it helps to prevent rust. The 
    ther rod in the action cavity is the standard installation in our hot and humid 
    limate. Its on 24/7. Your views pls.
    hanks!
    im
    
    
    
    When I first got to Hawaii, just about every grand piano I came across had a DC in the action cavity. I removed about a dozen of them, and put them under the piano, until I attended a chapter meeting, where I was told that having a DC under the piano was basically useless, and that a DC in the action cavity kept moisture from the action. But because there is so much humidity here, 24/7-365, pin blocks don't dry out.
    
    Since I learned that, I have never had a pin block that was anywhere close to being dried out. The only pin block I have had to replace was on where the termites got to it. Other than that, all blocks are solid. 
    
    To prevent rust on the strings, it is highly recommended that your customers buy a string cover. But not one made of felt. Felt obsorbs moisture, and then transfers that moisture on to the strings. I've even had one case where the felt cover got a little wet, and actually attached itself to the strings. So you need to get a string cover made of ranch hide, or something similar.
    
    Lim, where do you live, where it is hot and humid? Is that way year around? 
    
    Wim 
    
    
    
    
    
    
    


  • 11.  Dehumidifier rods

    Posted 11-23-2010 02:20
    From "Tony Caught" <acaught@internode.on.net>
    
    Hi Lim,
    After working in Darwin for 2 decades I will say wrong wrong wrong. Anywere that there is high humidity there are also periods of low humidity. Both rods have been installed in "hopefully closed areas" and when the humidity drops down to say 40% you can assume that these rods are going to reduce the effective humidity level down to about 25% causing the action to become loose and the soundboard to dry out to lower than it should be. Even fitting a humidistat to near the soundboard will not stop the action from cooking. One way only to do it properly, full climate control system with under cover under the soundboard, keep thr lid closed and close the key fall when not in use.
    
    Tony
    
    Tony Caught
    acaught@internode.on.net
    
    
    


  • 12.  Dehumidifier rods

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-23-2010 11:41
    From tnrwim@aol.com
    
    Anywere that 
    here is high humidity there are also periods of low humidity. 
    
    Tony 
    
    With all due respect, that statement is wrong. In Hawaii, and I presume in other tropical areas, like Singapore, the humidity NEVER drops below 70%. Surpisingly, the humidity rarely goes over 90%, either. But it is always in that range. 
    
    Wim
    
    
    
    
    
    


  • 13.  Dehumidifier rods

    Posted 11-23-2010 16:16
    From "Tony Caught" <acaught@internode.on.net>
    
    Hi Wim,
    
     
    
    Love to live in Hawaii where things are so constant (possibly because it's
    the centre of the world and surrounded by water) but I live on the worlds
    largest island "Australia" and we have many dry spells caused by winds from
    over large land masses of dessert or something. I do stand corrected though,
    there are many places where the humidity will remain relatively constant.
    >From a Government source in Hawaii "Humidity may vary slightly on a daily
    basis, with an average of 63% humidity in Honolulu, and between varying
    climate zones and elevation." One must assume that at some time the humidity
    does actually fall below 70%.. All areas have different terrains that effect
    the humidity content of the air regardless of what area you live in.
    
     
    
    Actually what I am saying WRONG to is the placement of the heating rods. If
    you put a heat source in an enclosed area like in the action cavity then you
    are drying out not only the action but also the tuning plank.
    
    In my opinion this is detrimental to any piano.
    
     
    
    Regards
    
    Tony
    
     
    
    Tony Caught
    
    acaught@internode.on.net
    
     
    
    From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf
    Of tnrwim@aol.com
    Sent: Wednesday, 24 November 2010 5:11 AM
    To: pianotech@ptg.org
    Subject: Re: [pianotech] Dehumidifier rods
    
     
    
     
    
    Anywere that 
    there is high humidity there are also periods of low humidity. 
    
    Tony 
    
     
    
    With all due respect, that statement is wrong. In Hawaii, and I presume in
    other tropical areas, like Singapore, the humidity NEVER drops below 70%.
    Surpisingly, the humidity rarely goes over 90%, either. But it is always in
    that range. 
    
    Wim
    
     
    
    


  • 14.  Dehumidifier rods

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-23-2010 20:13
    From tnrwim@aol.com
    
    Actually what I am saying WRONG to is the placement of the heating rods. If you put a heat source in an enclosed area like in the action cavity then you are drying out not only the action but also the tuning plank.
    In my opinion this is detrimental to any piano.
     
    Regards
    Tony
    
    As I mentioned in my first post on this subject, I though tthe same thing as you do. But after tuning many grands over 3 years, I have yet to find one with even one weak tuning pin. 
    
    Wim
    
    
    
    
    
    
    


  • 15.  Dehumidifier rods

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-23-2010 23:06
    From "Delwin D Fandrich" 


  • 16.  Dehumidifier rods

    Posted 11-23-2010 18:00
    From Jon Page <jonpage@comcast.net>
    
    Take the DC online course for certification.
    -- 
    
    Regards,
    
    Jon Page
    


  • 17.  Dehumidifier rods

    Posted 11-23-2010 18:06
    From limhseng@gmail.com
    
    Hi David,
    My experience(in a high humid place) is that if the piano is placed in a big hall or area the rods under the piano doe not help a lot , the same goes for dehumidifier boxes that collects water. A 15 watt rod works wonders in the action cavity. But the worry is overheating of the pinblock over time, so in certain cases I have reduced it to a 10watt rod. 
    Lim 
    Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld 
    Powered by Gee! from StarHub
    
    


  • 18.  Dehumidifier rods

    Posted 11-24-2010 05:13
    From "Dean May" <deanmay@pianorebuilders.com>
    
    Wim
     
    I appreciate your anecdotal stories that have verified in your own mind such
    placement does no harm in your corner of the world. I still don't really get
    what the benefit is for you. 
     
    For me, I've seen ample damage also to over dried action centers, let alone
    the pin block issues. That much heat radiating from such close proximity is
    a bad thing. That is my anecdotal experience. 
     
    
    Dean
    
    Dean W May                (812) 235-5272
    
    PianoRebuilders.com    (888) DEAN-MAY
    
    Terre Haute IN 47802
    
     
    
      _____  
    
    From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf
    Of tnrwim@aol.com
    Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 10:13 PM
    To: pianotech@ptg.org
    Subject: Re: [pianotech] Dehumidifier rods
    
    
    
    
    
    Actually what I am saying WRONG to is the placement of the heating rods. If
    you put a heat source in an enclosed area like in the action cavity then you
    are drying out not only the action but also the tuning plank.
    In my opinion this is detrimental to any piano.
     
    Regards
    Tony
    
    As I mentioned in my first post on this subject, I though tthe same thing as
    you do. But after tuning many grands over 3 years, I have yet to find one
    with even one weak tuning pin. 
     
    Wim
    
    
    
    
    


  • 19.  Dehumidifier rods

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-24-2010 11:20
    From tnrwim@aol.com
    
    Wim
     
    I appreciate your anecdotal stories that have verified in your own mind such placement does no harm in your corner of the world. I still don't really get what the benefit is for you. 
     
    For me, I've seen ample damage also to over dried action centers, let alone the pin block issues. That much heat radiating from such close proximity is a bad thing. That is my anecdotal experience. 
     
    
    Dean
    
    
    Dean
    
    There is nothing anecdotal about my stories. It's not just my experience, but also the experience of technicians who have lived and worked in Hawaii for over 30 years. They are the ones who told me about this. But even for me personally, there have been several instances where a sluggish action returned to normal after I plugged in the DC that was already in the action cavity. And as I have said numerous times now. I have yet to find a pin block with even one marginally loose tuning pin. 
    
    Wim